Every Throw From Zach Wilson - Week 15 vs Dolphins

[jeremy2020]

2 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I ask this with the utmost respect and sincerity.  I’ll ask you and anyone else that feels like that.  What do you gain by writing him off?  Has he been bad?  Yes.  Is he likely a franchise QB?  No.  Can he get much better?  Yes.  Is it likely?  Probably not.

Just like you think it’s silly for those aren’t willing to completely write him off, I don’t understand what is gained by your stance either.

One is based on facts and evidence that exists. One is just a dream. It's ok to discuss actual reality even if you hope that it somehow twists and contorts to wind up different. However, when all the signs point to it's been bad and that it is currently bad.. that does not make the logical outcome is that it's going to be good. 

Every conversation is "Well, Zach could go and fix his mechanics, his skittish nature, the hero ball in the offseason." JD signed FA receivers this offseason and they've been pretty bad, but NEXT offseason he's gonna sign the real good receivers that will make Zach good. 

The constant narratives of "Peyton Manning threw a lot of ints as rookie!" or "Zach has this one specific stat that matches up with xx" is so absurd and grotesquely transparent of people trying to convince themselves that dreams do come true that having any conversation on this board just ends up like discussing politics. 

You just have a bunch of people who refuse to discuss what's actually happening because it they *want* something different to be true. You can want Zach to do a once in lifetime turnaround while admitting that his current trajectory is showing it's not going to happen.

It feels like we're trying to talk investing for your future with people whose plan for retirement is to win the lottery. 

[HawkeyeJet]

9 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

One is based on fact and evidence that exists. One is just a dream. It's ok to discuss actual reality even if you hope that it somehow twists and contorts to wind up different. 

It’s based on fact that he’s bad now.  It’s not based on fact what he will be in the future.

There is a difference between admitting he’s bad now, which many do, and saying he has zero prospects of being something going forward.

I’m all for discussing reality.  Lots of people in the “he sucks, everything is his fault, he doesn’t do anything well, he can’t be good ever” camp ain’t dealing in reality anymore than those they make jokes about.

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

It’s based on fact that he’s bad now.  It’s not based on fact what he will be in the future.

There is a difference between admitting he’s bad now, which many do, and saying he has zero prospects of being something going forward.

I’m all for discussing reality.  Lots of people in the “he sucks, everything is his fault, he doesn’t do anything well, he can’t be good ever” camp ain’t dealing in reality anymore than those they make jokes about.

For me, it’s a combination of the player and the people coaching him up. Wilson was always going to need a lot of time and work to be worth the #2 pick, and we drafted him into a hostile NY market still pissed about the Gase-Darnold implosion, entrusting him to a bunch of baby coaches who have no experience developing a QB. Zach sucks, but Saleh probably sucks worse, so it’s hard to be confident about Wilson’s prospects to  turn it around unless something changes, and there’s no reason to believe anything is going to change.

[HawkeyeJet]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

For me, it’s a combination of the player and the people coaching him up. Wilson was always going to need a lot of time and work to be worth the #2 pick, and we drafted him into a hostile NY market still pissed about the Gase-Darnold implosion, entrusting him to a bunch of inexperienced coaches who have no experience developing a QB. Zach sucks, but Saleh probably sucks worse, so it’s hard to be confident about Wilson’s prospects to  turn it around unless something changes, and there’s no reason to believe anything is going to change.

Yeah, whatever he was supposed to have they have already brow beat out of him.  Now he’s scared to do anything and spends more time thinking about what not to do than anything else

[jeremy2020]

29 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

It’s based on fact that he’s bad now.  It’s not based on fact what he will be in the future.

There is a difference between admitting he’s bad now, which many do, and saying he has zero prospects of being something going forward.

I’m all for discussing reality.  Lots of people in the “he sucks, everything is his fault, he doesn’t do anything well, he can’t be good ever” camp ain’t dealing in reality anymore than those they make jokes about.

Again, based on currently available evidence of his performance, the roster, the team's performance, there is little to point to that can correlate to future success. 

This is the exact point I'm making. You're saying, "The future hasn't happened yet so he could become good!" Except, at this point in time, there's nothing to hang your hat on to say that is the likely outcome while there's many factors to point to that show him not succeeding is the likely outcome. 

We just got done having this conversation about Darnold where those of us going into year 3 warned that he faced a monumental challenge in turning it around and the extremely likely outcome was he would be bad were ridiculed. Then when we pointed out, he was going to bad in Carolina.. again with the "Magic" turnaround. Sure, his situation improved, but he had developed a number of bad habits by that time and a new coaching staff/ McCaffrey can't fix that. 

Zach should have sat. He should have been told he was going to sit. His head, his physical ability, his experience all indicated that he would be struggle to the point that it was unlikely to be huge benefit for him to start. Again, ridiculed..

Zach is throwing a lot of Ints before the season. He literally says, "I'm just trying to see what I can get away with". Some of us pointed out that was not a good sign. Ridiculed. Season starts... guess what? He's throws ints. His passes are erratic.. bouncing screens off the dirt, missing open guys, poor ball placement. He's unable to set protections. His own lineman call him out. He leaves his feet on throws. 

Nothing about this situation currently points to happy town. Could he go into the offseason and fix his mechanics, learns to read defenses, get the timing and touch down on short throws, etc, etc? Could the offensive line get healthy and gel next offseason.. could the receivers develop a better rapport with Zach and be in better positions for him to see them.. make tougher catches, etc? 

Sure. I could also win the lottery. It's not likely. The situation is does not look to be favorable. You want to hope then ok, but that Zach is on a 'trajectory' and/or has a situation that lends itself to helping him to be great or even good is just gaslighting. 

[Jetsfan80]

42 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Yeah, whatever he was supposed to have they have already brow beat out of him.  Now he’s scared to do anything and spends more time thinking about what not to do than anything else

But when he did what he wanted to do out there he threw 4 INTs, so.....