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Sticking up for the OL


jgb

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37 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

The OL has been better in 2021.  But has been incredibly uneven game to game.  

0 sack games and then 6 or more sack games thrown in.  

Like I said, better but hardly can be counted on in big games 

Wait... Have we played in big games this year??

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4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

100% true but defense had been so bad it like wouldn’t matter as far as wins. Why not complain about them too? Oh yeah, haha 

 

Maybe this was too positive for you? There are many more. I predicted back in the off season our D would be bottom barrel. I was called a "troll."

Just add a little time, bake for a few months, it all comes out ok.

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1 minute ago, jgb said:

 

Maybe this was too positive for you? There are many more. I predicted back in the off season our D would be bottom barrel. I was called a "troll."

Just add a little time, bake for a few months, it all comes out ok.

Uhhhh, aren’t we talking about todays game? Zach showed he might understand how to Mike White a game. Not sure how that’s worse then what the defense did, 

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2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Uhhhh, aren’t we talking about todays game? Zach showed he might understand how to Mike White a game. Not sure how that’s worse then what the defense did, 

No... this is a thread about the ranking of the Jets OL for the year which is way better than anyone expected and me asking for fans to consider there are other young men on this team who actually are doing a pretty good job.

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13 minutes ago, jgb said:

Definitely shared responsibly. I am just highly skeptical that even a jump in OL from #12 to #5 will move Zach from the worst QB in the league (by QBR) into a guy who sees a second contract here.

My school of thought is that a good Oline doesn't increase QB performance, but a bad Oline will decrease QB performance.

When the Oline flinches, ZW will regress. If the Oline plays well, then Zack can play up to his ceiling (whatever that is at the moment), and as he continues to play, the hope is that the ceiling is pushed higher. Zack is looking better than he was in September, but has a ways to go. I think part of that is the line jelling and playing better (hence removing some of the poor oline play that caused people to call out "OMG JD WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AN OLINE GURU, WHY DOES OUR LINE SUCK?!?!"), and I think some of that is Zack actually playing better (starting to limit interceptions, which is nice).

I'm getting tired, hope this isn't too rambly... 
 

 

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1 minute ago, xJayce said:

My school of thought is that a good Oline doesn't increase QB performance, but a bad Oline will decrease QB performance.

When the Oline flinches, ZW will regress. If the Oline plays well, then Zack can play up to his ceiling (whatever that is at the moment), and as he continues to play, the hope is that the ceiling is pushed higher. Zack is looking better than he was in September, but has a ways to go. I think part of that is the line jelling and playing better (hence removing some of the poor oline play that caused people to call out "OMG JD WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AN OLINE GURU, WHY DOES OUR LINE SUCK?!?!"), and I think some of that is Zack actually playing better (starting to limit interceptions, which is nice).

I'm getting tired, hope this isn't too rambly... 
 

 

I don't think we disagree on premise (a good OL helps a QB play better) only we disagree on quanta of impact. I don't think a great OL can turn what I've seen from Zach this year into a top-10 guy (FQB), which should be the goal when you draft a guy #2.

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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

No... this is a thread about the ranking of the Jets OL for the year which is way better than anyone expected and me asking for fans to consider there are other young men on this team who actually are doing a pretty good job.

 

1 hour ago, jgb said:

The Jets Offensive Line is so much better at their jobs than Zach is. I'm sick of the haterz blaming everything on a unit that is dramatically over-performing and showing great improvement. We got your back, guys!!!

12. NEW YORK JETS (UP 4)

Best-graded: C Connor McGovern | 75.2
Worst-graded: G Laurent Duvernay-Tardif | 57.9

The Jets have thrown a lot of resources at the offensive line in recent years, and while it’s still not a fantastic unit, it has made massive steps in the right direction, even after losing key members, such as Mekhi Becton, to injury. George Fant has moved over to left tackle, and while he was a liability there earlier in his career, he has allowed just one sack all season.

Rookie Alijah Vera-Tucker endured a tough run of play but looks to be past that poor stretch. He is back playing solid football. He has surrendered 38 pressures this season but been a far better run-blocker.

Oh, so the jab at Zach was just little JGB’s putting a little flavor on it?  It was really just that the O line is improved? My bad , the jab at Zach just confused me. 

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4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

 

Oh, so the jab at Zach was just little JGB’s putting a little flavor on it?  It was really just that the O line is improved? My bad , the jab at Zach just confused me. 

Entire body of work. Frustrated that QBs get graded on such a huge curve and a unit like our OL which is one of the biggest surprises in the NFL this year, get thrown like kindling onto the altar of burnt offerings for Zach.

These guys deserve better IMHO.

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Just now, jgb said:

I don't think we disagree on premise (a good OL helps a QB play better) only we disagree on quanta of impact. I don't think a great OL can turn what I've seen from Zach this year into a top-10 guy (FQB), which should be the goal when you draft a guy #2.

And a great OL shouldn't have to turn a QB into a FQB. They simply create an environment in which the rest of the offence can do their thing.

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1 minute ago, jgb said:

Entire body of work. Frustrated that QBs get graded on such a huge curve and a unit like our OL which is one of the biggest surprises in the NFL this year, get thrown like kindling onto the altar of burnt offerings for Zach.

These guys deserve better IMHO.

Or post loss emotions hit the better of some posters? I agree and seems to me plenty here do as well about the O line improving. Most people stopped ripping them as soon a we replaced GVR. Zach’s been pissed on by way more people here and  in media then the O line has. Deservedly so too. Zach and the O line played better this time against MiAmi than the team did last time. Together Zach and the line did. 

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4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Or post loss emotions hit the better of some posters? I agree and seems to me plenty here do as well about the O line improving. Most people stopped ripping them as soon a we replaced GVR. Zach’s been pissed on by way more people here and  in media then the O line has. Deservedly so too. Zach and the O line played better this time against MiAmi than the team did last time. Together Zach and the line did. 

All fair. Think about it this way. If Zach was the worst-rated Guard in the league, 100% of the fan base would be screaming to get him outta there. 

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Curious see youtubers break down the all-22 film.

I took time to watch most of all OL today in blah blah’s (thanks for posting) Zach throw cut up. They seemed fine. Couple of blowups but the pressure seemed to be coming from missed blocks from TEs and RBs. So, that’s on Zach not hitting the hot route or on TEs/RBs for missing their assignments. Also Zach not getting the ball out which is either on him or the WRs not getting open. 

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14 hours ago, jgb said:

The Jets Offensive Line is so much better at their jobs than Zach is.

Hi! I’d like to now pretend that I’m posting something positive when, really, I’m just bashing Zach Wilson for the eight millionth time. Enjoy!

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6 minutes ago, slats said:

Hi! I’d like to now pretend that I’m posting something positive when, really, I’m just bashing Zach Wilson for the eight millionth time. Enjoy!

Oh look who popped up for his monthly hit and run. See you in January.

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Damn people have short memories. When ZW was injured all I read was how improved the O-Line looked for 4 games.  Hell, even MLF was calling great games because... you know... hE WEnT uP TO tHe BoOtH... Or maybe our rookie QB is not doing the things that need to get done to create a consistent offense. Now, multiple things can be happening at once:

Do I think our line is ranked number 12?  Hmm... not really.. but definitely in the top 20.  No where near the bottom.  Do I think they screw up a block here or there? yes. Did it hurt not having Fant? Yes.

Does ZW make all the adjustments at the line BEFORE the snap? probably not.  He is too young to pick up all the nuances of what the defense is going to throw at him.  Is he alerting the linemen to change up the blocking scheme because he sees the blitz?  hopefully.. but not guaranteed.

Does ZW take waaaaaay to many steps dropping back?  Hell yes.  Does ZW process reads quick? Not yet. 

 

So add all that together against the number 1 blitz team in the game.. you get what you have yesterday.

 

Is that 100% the fault of the O-Line?  Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllll no. 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, jgb said:

Oh look who popped up for his monthly hit and run. See you in January.

The negativity bums me out and I’m just not the type of person who enjoys the piling on. You, of course, find such an atmosphere quite pleasant. It’s when the Jets are doing well that we don’t hear much from you. 

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14 hours ago, Hex said:

My point is what do they do when he gets hurt? the majority of the 2nd half sacks were not Zach's fault, he barely had the ball by the time he was dropped most of the time. 

I don't know if the current system is going to work, but I doubt drafting new guys will help either.

i don't think you can say how many sacks wilson was responsible for without looking at the tape.  mcdermott wasn't playing lt as well as fant but the jets still should've had a plan to negate the blitz.

as for player replacement, i think they need rt and rg mainly because both moses and duvarney are on one year deals and are both fairly old.  and they need depth.  mcdermott just couldn't block the edge blitzer very well.

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3 minutes ago, slats said:

The negativity bums me out.

I agree. Also tired of the negativity put on OL, weaponz, coaches, coordinators, front office, scouts, etc.

Quote

It’s when the Jets are doing well that we don’t hear much from you. 

I posted a ton in 2010.

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13 hours ago, jgb said:

All fair. Think about it this way. If Zach was the worst-rated Guard in the league, 100% of the fan base would be screaming to get him outta there. 

I looked at PFF yesterday and at that time the doctor and Zach had almost identical PFF scores.   I haven’t heard many complaints abou the good doctor.   And PFF is crap, so there is that too.  RG looks way better than it used to and they gave generous scores to GVR.  

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3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

We still need three more OL in this coming offseason.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

At the very least, they need to draft a good young OT.  The upcoming draft appears to be pretty deep, so they might not need to go with one in the first round (though JD might do so).  They simply can't assume that Becton can come back and stay healthy...and even if he does, they need a young quality backup/developmental guy behind Fant and Becton.  Edoga and McDermott are not it.  Moses is just meh and probably wants to get "paid."  Maybe 2nd or 3rd round?

They also need an IOL or two.  A new starter at C or RG (could move McGovern to RG), and maybe a young, developmental guy in the mid or later rounds.  I'd love the Jets to take Linderbaum with the later of their first round picks, if he's there.  If not, a G or C in the 2nd or third round?  Or, maybe sign a decent vet?

I doubt JD will draft 3 OL, maybe 2.  WR is still a need, and the defense...

 

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17 hours ago, BallinPB said:

Doesn’t matter who’s playing with him.  The best he’s done in a game s mediocre and that’s a fact.  Average at best.  Once a year.  One half per game maybe.  
 

I’m not trying to pile on but enough with the damn excuses and make the plays.  The best QB’s make wide receivers into stars.  Not saying Zach is one of the best QB but that’s what we are striving for right?

No, QBs who have experience and a strong line CAN make WR into stars. If they don't have time to throw, no running game, and subpar talent, he can't. Not saying Zack played well, but be fair, and to quote the replacements, nobody can win with these guys.... the Miami D, is too strong.

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16 minutes ago, TheClashFan said:

At the very least, they need to draft a good young OT.  The upcoming draft appears to be pretty deep, so they might not need to go with one in the first round (though JD might do so).  They simply can't assume that Becton can come back and stay healthy...and even if he does, they need a young quality backup/developmental guy behind Fant and Becton.  Edoga and McDermott are not it.  Moses is just meh and probably wants to get "paid."  Maybe 2nd or 3rd round?

They also need an IOL or two.  A new starter at C or RG (could move McGovern to RG), and maybe a young, developmental guy in the mid or later rounds.  I'd love the Jets to take Linderbaum with the later of their first round picks, if he's there.  If not, a G or C in the 2nd or third round?  Or, maybe sign a decent vet?

I doubt JD will draft 3 OL, maybe 2.  WR is still a need, and the defense...

 

After the 6 starters (Including Becton, Fant and Moses), the Jets OL was McDermott (FA 2022), Edoga, Feeney, GVR and some other guys.  You would hope that if anyone moved on our depth can fill in.  You would also hope that our depth could fill in when our starters our injured.  JD in three years built 4/5 of a line and no depth.   He got an ok 1/5 when the season was half over.  That is not good enough. 

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1 hour ago, varjet said:

After the 6 starters (Including Becton, Fant and Moses), the Jets OL was McDermott (FA 2022), Edoga, Feeney, GVR and some other guys.  You would hope that if anyone moved on our depth can fill in.  You would also hope that our depth could fill in when our starters our injured.  JD in three years built 4/5 of a line and no depth.   He got an ok 1/5 when the season was half over.  That is not good enough. 

Becton + Fant + Moses are not all starters when all 3 are healthy enough to play. One of them has to be depth until the day comes when their OL lines up in a triangle (without getting called for illegal formation) so they have 3 starting tackles. ;) 

Feeney isn't anything good, but earlier in Aug/Sept no one on the line looked good when they were first installing the offense. He'd started >50 straight games at G and C before this age-27 season. I'm sure some of that was out of desperation on SD/LA's part, but 3.5 yrs starter experience at 2 positions is hardly an unreasonable acquisition for a backup, whether he panned out or not. If no one else wanted him either then he'd be making the minimum $990K not $3.5MM.

It's not like LDT is so great either (or ever was). They're both UFAs after the season, as are Moses and McDermott, and GVR has $3MM coming up with none of it guaranteed, and Edoga may only stick for 1 more year as a distant reserve because he's cheap and there's going to be plenty of turnover aside from him.

Also Cam Clark had a neck injury + Alex Lewis retired at 29; I don't know how anyone's supposed to see those two upcoming things back in March/April. I think he saw so many successful teams having at least one (often at least two) low-investment starters on their OLs. So he threw a bunch against the wall and figured ok ONE of these guys will emerge as at least good enough to start at RG for a season: Lewis, GVR, Clark, Feeney, Edoga. He only had to guess wrong on 80% to still be right; he just didn't figure 0 of the 5 panning out. That's what I think happened, anyway.

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