Zack Wilson take from Fins Fan

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Is there a stat that represents  the fact his team can only pass the ball three times in a typhoon to win? Mac has the highest football IQ of any QB that has come out recently, he has nice anticipation and touch in short stuff. He’s in far and away the best situation too. Ignore that and you can shove your advanced stats up your butt. You don’t think literally almost not having to attempt more than three passes in that Bills game didn’t help? Haha  

Crusher. Don't fall for the strawmen argument. I am only arguing he's not a dink and dunker. My friends are trying to spin it as me arguing he is an amazing QB.

And if you want to start deleting points because he has a good run game (he does), you need to add some for the fact that the Pats 2 outside WRs are UDFAs that are 11th and 21st percentile among NFL WRs in the 40.

Instead of doing all these adjustments based upon "gut feel," I trust the math. And I'm willing to put it to the test.

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Yes, you've identified one play. You don't think any of the other top ranked teams have had similar broken plays? That's the power of statistical confidence over large sample sizes, my friend.

And you think my argument is weak. 

I'll leave it here. Money talks and you know what walks. Hint: it sticks to your shoe and I'm not talking about bubble gum. Give it a think and get back to me if you want to make a friendly charity bet on a position you say you're 100% confident in.

Nope.  I've identified the flaw in the cherry-picked stats that you're using to defend your position.  Meanwhile, I watched a Football game where Mac Jones wasnt allowed to pass the ball because his coaching staff didnt trust his arm.  One if very telling, the other is manipulation of data to tell a fake story that fits your narrative. 

What you're experiencing right now is defeat.  

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Is there a stat that represents  the fact his team can only pass the ball three times in a typhoon to win? Mac has the highest football IQ of any QB that has come out recently, he has nice anticipation and touch in short stuff. He’s in far and away the best situation too. Ignore that and you can shove your advanced stats up your butt. You don’t think literally almost not having to attempt more than three passes in that Bills game didn’t help? Haha  

Yeah but yo! peep this stat that I dont fully understand and see how it means something that we can verifiably see isnt true! 

[jgb]

Just now, JiFapono said:

Nope.  I've identified the flaw in the cherry-picked stats that you're using to defend your position.  Meanwhile, I watched a Football game where Mac Jones wasnt allowed to pass the ball because his coaching staff didnt trust his arm.  One if very telling, the other is manipulation of data to tell a fake story that fits your narrative. 

What you're experiencing right now is defeat.  

Ok, pal. Let's move onto more fruitful discussions. 

[The Crusher]

Just now, jgb said:

Crusher. Don't fall for the strawmen argument. I am only arguing he's not a dink and dunker. My friends are trying to spin it as me arguing he is an amazing QB.

I'm not falling for anything. Kid has some awesome skills in an awesome situation. You using those stats to even mention his name with the QB's like you did is not arguing it's closer to trolling. Just my opinion. 

[jgb]

Just now, The Crusher said:

I'm not falling for anything. Kid has some awesome skills in an awesome situation. You using those stats to even mention his name with the QB's like you did is not arguing it's closer to trolling. Just my opinion. 

No, I'm arguing he is pushing the ball downfield on a much higher % of plays than people think. That's all. But I do know how it works here. Time will tell. It always does.

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Ok, pal. Let's move onto more fruitful discussions. 

Christmas dinner?

[jgb]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Christmas dinner?

Considering we are all nuts for rooting for this team, I think fruit cake is more appropriate.

[JustInFudge]

Just now, The Crusher said:

I'm not falling for anything. Kid has some awesome skills in an awesome situation. You using those stats to even mention his name with the QB's like you did is not arguing it's closer to trolling. Just my opinion. 

100%.  Kid has been great, ROTY.  Jamar Chase is making a good case too but I think it goes to the QB who is leading his division.  I think Mac Jones has a long, prosperous career.  Maybe even dinking and dunking his way into record books/and or the HOF ala Drew Brees.  Great player, cant push the ball down field.  It's ok.  They have the offense to cater to him .

[Warfish]

I think we need to add “but that other guy is in a much better situation” to the meme list of “just need time” and “ how can he do well with these weapons” and “but look at that bad Oline”.

Its amazing how many years now we’ve been hearing this in defense of our QB’s. Often from the same guys who ALSO defend the GM, lol.

Its a horror movie Groundhog Day.

[dolphann4life]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

Just wondering would you take Zach over Tua? If you could make that trade. 

Tough question. Gun to my head I think I would just for the potential to have a top 10 QB that can play an exciting brand of football. I want to make clear im not knocking Tua by saying this. I think Tua’s a VERY good accurate passer that can make noise with the right pieces around him and im happy to have him, but his style of football is death by 1000 paper cuts. 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, dolphann4life said:

Tough question. Gun to my head I think I would just for the potential to have a top 10 QB that can play an exciting brand of football. I want to make clear im not knocking Tua by saying this. I think Tua’s a VERY good accurate passer that can make noise with the right pieces around him and im happy to have him, but his style of football is death by 1000 paper cuts. 

Serious question: what's the discussion around Tua like on the Miami boards? Are most fans ready to move on, or do some think he needs more time to develop or a better supporting cast to reach his potential?

[DetroitRed]

 

 

 

Breaking News from CNN

In a highly contested back and forth aerial assault, the Pats defeated the Bills,  and Mac Jones broke the all time deep ball yards per completion  average which stood for 75…………

 

In other news, 2 Russian transformers urinated on the face of orange man bad after drinking bleach ……..

 

 

 

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, dolphann4life said:

Again, Tua was far from the worst QB in the league last year yet in the media and within the fan base he needed to be replaced ASAP. Young QBs are on the shortest leash they’ve ever been on in today’s nfl. 

You're not doing well today.  Tua last year wasn't the worst starting QB in the NFL.   Jets fans know this because statistically Sam Darnold was.  Now lets compare Tua rookie year to Zach.  Tua started 9 games had a 64.1 Completion percentage.  11 TD's and 5 Int's with a QBR of 87.1.  Zach has started 10 games this year.  He has a 56.2 completion percentage.  6TD's to 11Int's with a 66.4 QBR.

Frankly Tua doesn't really impress me.  I was very high on Zach.  If Zach was playing at the same level as Tua as a rookie I would be very happy with his play.  He isn't on a comparative basis Zach as a rookie stinks compared to Tua as a rookie.   FYI I don't think Miami is that happy with Tua and might well try and replace him next year.   They might be right.  He's not impressive but he's certainly better than Zach.

[dolphann4life]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Serious question: what's the discussion around Tua like on the Miami boards? Are most fans ready to move on, or do some think he needs more time to develop or a better supporting cast to reach his potential?

It’s love or hate and no in between. Almost 50/50. Tua haters Constantly bitch about 2 yard passes, being a frail injury prone QB and anytime he does something well it was the result of the other team being bad.  Then there’s the pro Tua crowd that has an excuse for everything he does wrong. It’s really maddening. Lol I was very excited about Tua when we first got him but I’ve since tempered my expectations. I do still feel comfortable moving forward with him as our franchise QB. I think he has elite accuracy and thats enough with a decent supporting cast. 

[Biggs]

21 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Nope.  I've identified the flaw in the cherry-picked stats that you're using to defend your position.  Meanwhile, I watched a Football game where Mac Jones wasnt allowed to pass the ball because his coaching staff didnt trust his arm.  One if very telling, the other is manipulation of data to tell a fake story that fits your narrative. 

What you're experiencing right now is defeat.  

He didn't have to pass the ball.  That's not the same thing as not allowed to pass the ball.  Russell Wilson and Garrapollo when they played for SB contending teams where among the NFL QB's with the lowest pass attempts.  

[Biggs]

59 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Huh?  What are we betting on?   

If if the bet is, Mac Jones is a dink and dunk artist, then you need to make a donation today because you already lost. 

If the bet is the Patriots are going to get a speedster, then this is stupid, I never said they wouldnt and I dont care about who they get for Jones to underthrow next season, he's already ruined the deep threat extraordinaire, Nelson Agholor. 

 

Agholor yards per catch are exactly what they have averaged his entire career.  12.5  Last year was an outlier.  His 5 previous years with the Eagles it was 11.2

[jgb]

54 minutes ago, dolphann4life said:

It’s love or hate and no in between. Almost 50/50. Tua haters Constantly bitch about 2 yard passes, being a frail injury prone QB and anytime he does something well it was the result of the other team being bad.  Then there’s the pro Tua crowd that has an excuse for everything he does wrong. It’s really maddening. Lol I was very excited about Tua when we first got him but I’ve since tempered my expectations. I do still feel comfortable moving forward with him as our franchise QB. I think he has elite accuracy and thats enough with a decent supporting cast. 

So like here but with a much better QB to argue about.

 

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Agholor yards per catch are exactly what they have averaged his entire career.  12.5  Last year was an outlier.  His 5 previous years with the Eagles it was 11.2

Carr is also an under-rated QB. The Raiders lead the league in explosive pass play percentage this year and I don't know anyone who thinks their weaponz are world-beaters.

As a long-time Philadelphia resident I can tell you Agholor's issue has never been speed. It's been drops, mental lapses, and stone hands.

[Biggs]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Carr is also an under-rated QB. The Raiders lead the league in explosive pass play percentage this year and I don't know anyone who thinks their weaponz are world-beaters.

As a long-time Philadelphia resident I can tell you Agholor's issue has never been speed. It's been drops, mental lapses, and stone hands.

Carr is a great deep ball passer.  They also play in a dome on one of the fastest tracks in the NFL.  There's a huge difference throwing deep balls in a dome or in good weather on a fast track and playing in weather.  It doesn't just impact the QB it impacts the recievers ability to track and adjust to the ball. 

[jgb]

46 minutes ago, Biggs said:

He didn't have to pass the ball.  That's not the same thing as not allowed to pass the ball.  Russell Wilson and Garrapollo when they played for SB contending teams where among the NFL QB's with the lowest pass attempts.  

Claims I am cherry picking to make my point despite using every stat I can think of. Picks one game to make his.

[ZachEY]

4 hours ago, dolphann4life said:

Did you not see this kids insane Escapability yesterday? I mean it’s truly something. He does this multiple times a game too! It’s a trait that will eventually lead your team to many big plays. 

This is exactly what people said about Darnold.  Verbatim.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Lol of course other afc East teams want us to keep him 

do you guys not realize when your being trolled 

Yes because this effects the jets keeping Zach Wilson lol. 

[kevinc855]

5 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Yes because this effects the jets keeping Zach Wilson lol. 

Of course it’s not but I laugh at how easily some guys on this site are taken 

[David Harris]

And without Fant yesterday the OL was bad.  Mcdermott and Moses gave up like 7 pressures each.  

[Sammybighead]

I honestly don’t get the rush to judgement on Zach. There is a good portion of the fanbase that is declaring they know everything about Zach and can make a full judgement. To me it’s idiotic. The biggest jump for a QB is usually year 1 to 2. Why not give the kid that opportunity to either make that jump or fail to make that jump? Because we’ve had several young qbs recently who haven’t? That means didly squat. If we had drafted 100 qbs who ended up being busts, it wouldn’t affect Zach. Give the kid a freaking chance!

And before you start posting stats, or claiming some subjective eye test, I STILL DON’T CARE. IT’S YEAR 1 FOR CHRIST SAKES AND HE’S GOT SO MANY THINGS WORKING AGAINST HIM!!!!

[ultraJETfan]

3 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

It would be helpful to have a few receivers (that actually try) taller than 5-10.  Moore, Crowder, Berrios--not exactly big guys high pointing balls over DBs.

Seeing guys like Davante Parker and Isaih Ford jump over our DBs makes me envious.

This isn't a "he needs weaponz" take, Zach has not been good.

Some big WRs would really be nice.  And a true playmanking TE.

Big guys.  Please.   

I've been shouting this from the rooftops. We have too many skill players <6'

Moore and Berrios can stay. Rest gotta go. We need some damn power forwards. NO MORE POINT GUARDS!

[Biggs]

53 minutes ago, jgb said:

Claims I am cherry picking to make my point despite using every stat I can think of. Picks one game to make his.

Jimmy G threw 8 passes in the NFC championship game against the Packers in 2019.  they ran the ball 42 times.  

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

He didn't have to pass the ball.  That's not the same thing as not allowed to pass the ball.  Russell Wilson and Garrapollo when they played for SB contending teams where among the NFL QB's with the lowest pass attempts.  

There is a huge difference between, being a run first team like the 49'ers and the Seahawks from those seasons and not allowing your QB to attempt a forward pass in a Football contest in 2021.  I dont see the relevance in this comparison in the slightest.

Prior to his coaching staff only allowing him to attempt 3 passes vs. the Bills, Mac was on a 30 attempt a game pace.  Therefore, we can easily say that his coaching staff didnt trust him to pass the ball in a game where they didnt feel his squirt gun arm could hold up.  If they didnt have to pass it, why is he attempting 30 a game?

 

 

[Biggs]

6 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

There is a huge difference between, being a run first team like the 49'ers and the Seahawks from those seasons and not allowing your QB to attempt a forward pass in a Football contest in 2021.  I dont see the relevance in this comparison in the slightest.

Prior to his coaching staff only allowing him to attempt 3 passes vs. the Bills, Mac was on a 30 attempt a game pace.  Therefore, we can easily say that his coaching staff didnt trust him to pass the ball in a game where they didnt feel his squirt gun arm could hold up.  If they didnt have to pass it, why is he attempting 30 a game?

 

 

For what it's worth that's one of the worst takes I've ever seen.   Mac Jones was handed nothing.  He was in a QB  competition with a veteran QB who was formely an NFL MVP.  He won the job outright in TC.  He's having a rookie year that blows away the competition.  

We run the Shanahan system.  The last time Shanahan had a really good team they attempted 8 passes in the NFC championship game and blew Green Bay out.  Ignoring that the Pats blew Buffalo out without having to throw the ball more than 3 times sent a message to a division rival who everyone said was a SB contender.  You're our bitch.  It had zero to do with Mac and everything to do with conditions and the tempo and message that the Pats sent to a division rival.  No different than when they made Sam their bitch.  

The Pats believe in Mac from the top down to the locker.  He's delivered.  I'm frankly shocked but to argue the guy isn't good is stupid at this point. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Claims I am cherry picking to make my point despite using every stat I can think of. Picks one game to make his.

Damn, I dont think I've ever seen you this pinned against the wall.  You cant even keep it straight with the ways you've been proved wrong.  1 game?  Nah homey, I used multiple games and season trends.  You cant even keep up!  hahaha  I like watching you flail around.

 

 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Biggs said:

For what it's worth that's one of the worst takes I've ever seen.   Mac Jones was handed nothing.  He was in a QB  competition with a veteran QB who was formely an NFL MVP.  He won the job outright in TC.  He's having a rookie year that blows away the competition.  

We run the Shanahan system.  The last time Shanahan had a really good team they attempted 8 passes in the NFC championship game and blew Green Bay out.  Ignoring that the Pats blew Buffalo out without having to throw the ball more than 3 times sent a message to a division rival who everyone said was a SB contender.  You're out bitch.  It had zero to do with Mac and everything to do with conditions and the tempo and message that the Pats sent to a division rival.  No different than when they made Sam their bitch.  

He attempted 3 passes in a game and you went...but bro, running teams have been to the Super Bowl as a counter argument....and you're telling me my take is the worst you've ever seen?  lmfao

you cant make this up

 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Damn, I dont think I've ever seen you this pinned against the wall.  You cant even keep it straight with the ways you've been proved wrong.  1 game?  Nah homey, I used multiple games and season trends.  You cant even keep up!  hahaha  I like watching you flail around.

 

 

Bet up or shut up  

If I've "been proved wrong," take the easy money.

But you won't because you know deep down who's right here (as usual).

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

For what it's worth that's one of the worst takes I've ever seen.   Mac Jones was handed nothing.  He was in a QB  competition with a veteran QB who was formely an NFL MVP.  He won the job outright in TC.  He's having a rookie year that blows away the competition.  

We run the Shanahan system.  The last time Shanahan had a really good team they attempted 8 passes in the NFC championship game and blew Green Bay out.  Ignoring that the Pats blew Buffalo out without having to throw the ball more than 3 times sent a message to a division rival who everyone said was a SB contender.  You're our bitch.  It had zero to do with Mac and everything to do with conditions and the tempo and message that the Pats sent to a division rival.  No different than when they made Sam their bitch.  

The Pats believe in Mac from the top down to the locker.  He's delivered.  I'm frankly shocked but to argue the guy isn't good is stupid at this point. 

Nice edit, that was never the point., get on topic please. 

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Bet up or shut up  

You lost.  Do you want my favorite charity to donate to or nah?