maury77 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 I haven't watched any of these guys this year, but I watched a lot of Ohio State last year and out of Olave, Wilson and Williams, I always felt Olave was the best one (may not be the case anymore). Since La Fleur places such a premium on route running, Olave (who is a craftsman at running routes) would be a good fit, but I have no idea where he is projected to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 I'm honestly not sure at this point. If we are going by the system, I think Burks is the most ideal fit, because he has versatility (a trait that Moore showed as well) and YAC ability. He somewhat reminds me of Deebo in college to an extent. However, the system doesn't fit Corey Davis, yet we went out and signed him anyway, so I'm not 100% sure what we're looking for. Right now (and just basic, top of the head, minimal scouting thoughts): 1. Burks: To me, he's a perfect fit in the system, guy can run the ball, take short screens, catches off target throws very well, and is just a physical runner. Ideally, he's the type of guy that fits a quick screen game because he has a RB mentality out there, where he's not really afraid of contact. The main downside I saw with him so far has been his tendency to round out his routes, especially slants and outs. 2. Wilson: I love guys that can run routes, but more importantly set up routes. I think this is what makes guys like Kupp/Cooper/Devonta Smith great in that they aren't the best physical guys, but they can set up their routes extremely well. He's the very best in this class (that I've watched barely so take it with large grain of salt) in hip manipulation. Sets up the defender extremely well, and I think he's almost guaranteed to be at least good. I don't think the upside is quite the highest, but very similar to Moore. My main concern is his ability to fight off press coverage. 3. Olave: Pretty much Wilson, little less explosive. I have the same concerns, but guy is just smooth as butter. I think the upside is lower, but I'd have a hard time seeing him be a complete bust. 4. Williams: I love his speed, in fact, if we're going pure deep threat, he has to be No. 1. However, some things bother me: A) He played second fiddle to both Wilson/Olave, as the deep threat specialist. If he couldn't take the reins from either of them (and I think at times Smith-Nigba looked better as well), I have a hard time putting him ahead of them. You can argue he's the Waddle to Juedy/Smith at Alabama previously but I feel safe with both of them. I'm not sure I'm aiming for pure upside here. B - His biggest strength is his deep speed, which works great, when you have a wonderful running game (both OSU and Alabama), but in terms of translation, I would like to see him get better with his hip manipulation. On pure athleticism, he's better than both Wilson/Olave, but those guys are just masters at setting up their defenders. 5) Dotson: He reminds me of Moore as well, in fact this draft is rife with guys that can play outside/slot and are nightmares in space. I don't like his routes quite as much as the other guys but he has a large catch radius relative to his size. London: I don't know where to place him, because I really wanted to see what he'd run. I'm weary of catch in traffic guys in college, call it the Treadwell/Hakeem Butler syndrome I guess. Theoretically, he should go high but because he won't be able to run, and whatever recovery issues from ankle surgery, I'm dropping him down my list. He makes some great catches, but he doesn't separate from his defender as much as I'd like on college tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 16 hours ago, win4ever said: I'm honestly not sure at this point. If we are going by the system, I think Burks is the most ideal fit, because he has versatility (a trait that Moore showed as well) and YAC ability. He somewhat reminds me of Deebo in college to an extent. However, the system doesn't fit Corey Davis, yet we went out and signed him anyway, so I'm not 100% sure what we're looking for. Right now (and just basic, top of the head, minimal scouting thoughts): 1. Burks: To me, he's a perfect fit in the system, guy can run the ball, take short screens, catches off target throws very well, and is just a physical runner. Ideally, he's the type of guy that fits a quick screen game because he has a RB mentality out there, where he's not really afraid of contact. The main downside I saw with him so far has been his tendency to round out his routes, especially slants and outs. 2. Wilson: I love guys that can run routes, but more importantly set up routes. I think this is what makes guys like Kupp/Cooper/Devonta Smith great in that they aren't the best physical guys, but they can set up their routes extremely well. He's the very best in this class (that I've watched barely so take it with large grain of salt) in hip manipulation. Sets up the defender extremely well, and I think he's almost guaranteed to be at least good. I don't think the upside is quite the highest, but very similar to Moore. My main concern is his ability to fight off press coverage. 3. Olave: Pretty much Wilson, little less explosive. I have the same concerns, but guy is just smooth as butter. I think the upside is lower, but I'd have a hard time seeing him be a complete bust. 4. Williams: I love his speed, in fact, if we're going pure deep threat, he has to be No. 1. However, some things bother me: A) He played second fiddle to both Wilson/Olave, as the deep threat specialist. If he couldn't take the reins from either of them (and I think at times Smith-Nigba looked better as well), I have a hard time putting him ahead of them. You can argue he's the Waddle to Juedy/Smith at Alabama previously but I feel safe with both of them. I'm not sure I'm aiming for pure upside here. B - His biggest strength is his deep speed, which works great, when you have a wonderful running game (both OSU and Alabama), but in terms of translation, I would like to see him get better with his hip manipulation. On pure athleticism, he's better than both Wilson/Olave, but those guys are just masters at setting up their defenders. 5) Dotson: He reminds me of Moore as well, in fact this draft is rife with guys that can play outside/slot and are nightmares in space. I don't like his routes quite as much as the other guys but he has a large catch radius relative to his size. London: I don't know where to place him, because I really wanted to see what he'd run. I'm weary of catch in traffic guys in college, call it the Treadwell/Hakeem Butler syndrome I guess. Theoretically, he should go high but because he won't be able to run, and whatever recovery issues from ankle surgery, I'm dropping him down my list. He makes some great catches, but he doesn't separate from his defender as much as I'd like on college tape. A few thoughts on the bold, because the transfer is interesting and something I’ve thought about. One is that Burrow transferred from Ohio State because he couldn’t beat out JT Barrett and then Dwayne Haskins - sometimes guys just benefit from a change of scenery. Related and in Williams’ case - Metchie was supposed to be the guy at Alabama this year and Williams has just taken over so not like he’s playing with nobody. Alabama has had such a great track record of putting receivers into the NFL too and Williams is putting up really impressive numbers. I also think there are a variety of valid schools of thought but if the Jets are taking a wide receiver in the first round it needs to be someone with significant upside. The offense doesn’t have a centerpiece, doesn’t have to be a wide receiver but I think taking one in the first round means they need to chase that. There are steady guys to be had in round two and those are usually the safer bets anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLO Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 I think we have to have some caution looking at this WR class as its nowhere near as talented as those from the last two drafts, which to be honest are historic classes for WRs. It's probably likely a number of receivers will be picked too early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 On 12/21/2021 at 7:42 AM, sec101row23 said: You sure you are talking about Chris Olave from Ohio State? Lol… He’s a route running tactician but he’s not a contested catch, post up type receiver. he's an extension of what Moore brings to the table, IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 If Burks runs in the 4.3s, hes the guy. We need someone with size opposite moore. Id take Burks w/ the pick we are getting from seattle in round 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 My favorite receiver in this class is Jahan Dotson. May be a little biased but that dude is a baller. All these receivers bring something different to the table, so its really a "pick your flavor" type group, but the guy I see the Jets targeting is Drake London. He's the one guy in this class that brings it all to the table, and would be the make-up pick for Denzel Mims being that you can't really rely on him to be a top 3 option going forward. Corey Davis, Elijah Moore, Braxton Berrios, Drake London, Denzel Mims would be an ideal top 5 for Zach Wilson and the Jets offense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmello Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 16 hours ago, Paradis said: he's an extension of what Moore brings to the table, IMO He is. I wonder when it’s all said and done that Jameson Williams is the consensus WR1 in this class. If he’s a true 6’2” he’s going to be a legit top 10 prospect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 8 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: He is. I wonder when it’s all said and done that Jameson Williams is the consensus WR1 in this class. If he’s a true 6’2” he’s going to be a legit top 10 prospect. I think he ends up viewed as a legit top ten prospect even regardless of how his height measures. The guy running in the 4.3’s coming off of 1500 yards at Alabama is going to be a top ten prospect, right? Ruggs never topped 800 yards, Waddle never topped 850 and that was his freshman year. Williams is at 1,445 heading into the playoff. Only bigger Alabama seasons were Smith last year and Cooper the year he came out and he’s got a chance to catch Cooper too. And - granted it’s an ugly group - guys go back end of the top ten when they run fast. John Ross, Tavon Austin, DHB, Ted Ginn, Troy Williamson…NFL teams love that speed profile back end of the top ten. Assume Williamson runs fast enough to get that top ten consideration anyway but his production this year blows the other guys out of the water. Plus the Alabama WR track record and a weak class this year. I think we’ll be discussing him at the Jets’ pick by draft time, certainly the Seattle pick. Ojabo is the other. I’m usually starting my mocks with those two. Productive freak athletes at important positions that fill needs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 Anyone have a line on Jerreth Sterns from Western Kentucky, little guy? Totally eye popping numbers this year and though a lesser school he did have huge games vs msu and app state. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 hour ago, sec101row23 said: He is. I wonder when it’s all said and done that Jameson Williams is the consensus WR1 in this class. If he’s a true 6’2” he’s going to be a legit top 10 prospect. You think so hey. I think he is massively overrated at the moment. I know ppl like @derp and @Chrebetfan80 think the world of him but I’m not sure (yet) he’s dynamic enough. Explosive/fast - obviously. I think the draft media is falling in love with the dream of Williams, like they did Ruggs. that said, I’ve only watched him passively during games. Can’t say I’ve committed time to watching his game film yet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 I’ll share an outside the box vision I’ve been having lately. It’s an incredible long shot, but I wish our OC/Front office would start exploring more non traditional offensive builds. Also not saying I’d take this WR first, not in that discussion at all. Anywho, a prospect that has piqued my interest is Wan’Dale Robinson. Initially started at Nebraska as a RB, but was always used as just an offensive weapon. Kentucky uses him more as a WR. Some might view him as too similar to Moore, which may be true. But where I view the opportunity is positionless football similar to positionelss basketball that has become so popular. Imagine a formation with Carter, Moore and Robinson. All able to catch the ball, all able to run the ball. Throw in Davis and a balanced TE and there can be so much stress put on a defense and what sub packages should align with a lineup like that. Do you keep your LBs on the field and risk having two of them matched up in the passing game? Do you go nickel and risk getting run all over from multiple angles? Thats my dream. It won’t happen. But that’s my dream. Be on the cutting edge for once. Not trying to recreate someone else’s success. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 40 minutes ago, Beerfish said: Anyone have a line on Jerreth Sterns from Western Kentucky, little guy? Totally eye popping numbers this year and though a lesser school he did have huge games vs msu and app state. I was listening to the bowl game against App State during a drive from CStat. The announcers were absolutely gushing over his play. Small for NFL at 5'9 and we have too many WRs in that category but I'm rooting for him to succeed in the NFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 19 minutes ago, Paradis said: You think so hey. I think he is massively overrated at the moment. I know ppl like @derp and @Chrebetfan80 think the world of him but I’m not sure (yet) he’s dynamic enough. Explosive/fast - obviously. I think the draft media is falling in love with the dream of Williams, like they did Ruggs. that said, I’ve only watched him passively during games. Can’t say I’ve committed time to watching his game film yet I think there’s more to him than just speed. He hasn’t shown to be the route running savant that Devonta Smith was but I think he posses the ability to get there eventually. He also hasn’t played a ton of football yet, he only had 15 receptions combined in his two prior years at OSU. I’m sure I’ll change my mind several more times before April. I watched the Bengal/ Raven game yesterday and was thinking just how far way the Jets are from having an offense like Cincy. Watching Higgins, Chase and Boyd is just so entertaining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 The answer is obvious. Wilson is the only one that has the same name as another player. That kind of symmetry is what these guys seem to love. I guess you can make a case for Williams, but his first name does not start with Q. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: The answer is obvious. Wilson is the only one that has the same name as another player. That kind of symmetry is what these guys seem to love. I guess you can make a case for Williams, but his first name does not start with Q. Or any receiver named Elijah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 57 minutes ago, Paradis said: You think so hey. I think he is massively overrated at the moment. I know ppl like @derp and @Chrebetfan80 think the world of him but I’m not sure (yet) he’s dynamic enough. Explosive/fast - obviously. I think the draft media is falling in love with the dream of Williams, like they did Ruggs. that said, I’ve only watched him passively during games. Can’t say I’ve committed time to watching his game film yet I to be honest am more focused on where he will go than where he should go since I find that more concrete for me to think through and how guys translate to the next level is so dependent on situation. I was thrilled about Mims and look how that’s worked out. Chrebetfan can absolutely evaluate WR’s though. My thought process is pretty simple. Fast WR’s go high and Williams is fast. Most of those fast WR’s are cautionary tales, but he’s more productive than them so it’s hard to tell how he’ll do. But I think speed is an overrated trait when it comes to drafting wide receivers in terms of guys translating - so it’s less he should go high than he will and I don’t get why folks are pretending he’s going to go in the teens. I do think the Jets need a #1, this is a good time to develop someone with Davis and Moore already in place, and it’d be fun to see Moore with space to operate because he’s got a burner across from him and Wilson with someone he can take deep shots to. Fits Douglas’ philosophy at the position too. Also think Burks is the best scheme fit in the draft and 6’2+ 200+ guys who run 4.5’s in the second round are the best use of WR draft capital. Obviously Ruggs’ off field decision making was deplorable but a) it’s hard to compare a guy with a career high under 800 yards to a guy with 1445 with one or two games to go and b) Ruggs was on pace for over 1100 yards in his second year so I don’t know if the comparison in terms of projecting to the next level is necessarily a bad thing in the way you seem to be implying. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 17 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: I think there’s more to him than just speed. He hasn’t shown to be the route running savant that Devonta Smith was but I think he posses the ability to get there eventually. He also hasn’t played a ton of football yet, he only had 15 receptions combined in his two prior years at OSU. I’m sure I’ll change my mind several more times before April. I watched the Bengal/ Raven game yesterday and was thinking just how far way the Jets are from having an offense like Cincy. Watching Higgins, Chase and Boyd is just so entertaining Yea… it’s a love hate thing watching a team full of players we all wanted. Tee Higgins is like the next Keenan Allen - a player who was so obviously capable, but got nitpicked for seemingly made up reasons. And Boyd. Ugh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, derp said: I to be honest am more focused on where he will go than where he should go since I find that more concrete for me to think through and how guys translate to the next level is so dependent on situation. I was thrilled about Mims and look how that’s worked out. Chrebetfan can absolutely evaluate WR’s though. My thought process is pretty simple. Fast WR’s go high and Williams is fast. Most of those fast WR’s are cautionary tales, but he’s more productive than them so it’s hard to tell how he’ll do. But I think speed is an overrated trait when it comes to drafting wide receivers in terms of guys translating - so it’s less he should go high than he will and I don’t get why folks are pretending he’s going to go in the teens. I do think the Jets need a #1, this is a good time to develop someone with Davis and Moore already in place, and it’d be fun to see Moore with space to operate because he’s got a burner across from him and Wilson with someone he can take deep shots to. Fits Douglas’ philosophy at the position too. Also think Burks is the best scheme fit in the draft and 6’2+ 200+ guys who run 4.5’s in the second round is the best use of WR draft capital. Obviously Ruggs’ off field decision making was deplorable but a) it’s hard to compare a guy with a career high under 800 yards to a guy with 1445 with one or two games to go and b) Ruggs was on pace for over 1100 yards in his second year so I don’t know if the comparison in terms of projecting to the next level is necessarily a bad thing in the way you seem to be implying. I don’t see us taking a WR early, regardless. targeting high value guys like Ross or Pickens later (injuries will see them slip into the 2/3 rounds) is more likely. Joe went after Bryce Hall under similar circumstances coming off an injury - who was once labeled a 1st round CB. …a healthy George Pickens >>> J Williams but to your point, Ruggs was coming along nicely, but his development was over projected. And he played beside Jeudy/Waddle/Smith…. Williams doesn’t have that to compete with for targets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 2 hours ago, Paradis said: I don’t see us taking a WR early, regardless. targeting high value guys like Ross or Pickens later (injuries will see them slip into the 2/3 rounds) is more likely. Joe went after Bryce Hall under similar circumstances coming off an injury - who was once labeled a 1st round CB. …a healthy George Pickens >>> J Williams but to your point, Ruggs was coming along nicely, but his development was over projected. And he played beside Jeudy/Waddle/Smith…. Williams doesn’t have that to compete with for targets. I think the difference between WR and CB is we’ve seen Douglas value the former more than the latter. Not sure healthy Ross or Pickens even exists any more either. Both those guys seem to have a skill set that isn’t valued with this offense either. I don’t know if we can really say anything about Ruggs’ development since he got under a season and a half. Folks knew he’d take time. I’d just think if you want to bag on fast guys getting overprojected you’ve got John Ross, DHB, Ted Ginn… Like I said I think speed is overrated but it’ll get drafted high. Speed guys were never your thing anyway really right? I do think WR early this year is super, super clean though with Crowder expiring. You can get a guy starter snaps as the third receiver and build him up. Offense needs skill talent and speed. It’s a premium position that you pretty much have the whole class at your disposal with the Seattle pick. Not sure where else they go there. Edge with one of the picks. Other one is overinvest in OL, early LB for a defense that doesn’t seem to value, another CB in a busy room for a defense that doesn’t seem to value, another DT…WR just feels the cleanest. But we’ll know a lot more after free agency. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 David Bell vs these highly ranked teams at the time vs oho state 11-103 vs msu 11-217 vs Iowa 11-240 vs notre dame 7-64 This guy is good and imo his game will translate to the next level 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 At least one ex-scout is down on Olave. DEC 21, 2021 Ex-Jets Scout Warns New York Not to Draft Chris Olave This former scout says the New York Jets should not draft Ohio State receiver Chris Olave because he will be a bust and make quarterback Zach Wilson worse. DANIEL KELLY For quarterback Zach Wilson to have a chance to succeed, the Jets must surround him with as much offensive firepower as possible. Does that mean the Jets will select wide receiver Chris Olave out of Ohio State? With receivers Jamison Crowder, Keelan Cole and Braxton Berrios all scheduled to become unrestricted free agents, there are a lot of question marks surrounding the position. Big ticket free agent WR Corey Davis has also not lived up to his billing. These circumstances will undoubtedly force team management to either re-sign their own, look towards free agency or the draft. Olave is one of those big-name, big-reputation draft prospects who is floating around on various draft rounds as a viable first-round NFL talent. Olave does come with a polished football resume that includes two-time First Team All-Big Ten (2020, 2021), Third-Team All-Big Ten (2019), and being a Fred Biletnikoff Award Semifinalist in 2021. He also has been a consistent producer at Ohio State posting 45-plus catches the last three seasons, and putting up a per-catch-average between 14-17 yards during that time span. This season Olave had 65 receptions for 936 yards (14.4 avg.) and 13 TD. In the process he also eclipsed WR David Boston’s record for the most touchdown receptions in school history. All of that and I still could not warm up to him. Olave will be a bust in the NFL. #2 Chris Olave 6-foot-1, 189 pounds 40-yard-dash-time: 4.38 Games reviewed 2021: University of Minnesota, Oregon, Penn State, Michigan State and Purdue Grade: Fifth-Round (league grade) Note: Pay attention to how many reps he puts up @ 225 pounds Scouting Report: Receiver who does not play as fast as his (40) time, who can get re-routed easily and gives below average overall effort. Accelerates quickly, has elite acceleration, but showed he can get hung-up with defensive backs or moved off his course way too easily, which causes some errant looking passes (see Minnesota and Oregon crossing patterns). Struggles to create separation on intermediate level routes. Tends to take it easy running routes if the ball is not going to him, which is a tell to opposing defenses. Did not even look like he was going all-out and kind of taking it easy when they did throw the ball to him. Mediocre looking on all the short to intermediate stuff. Nothing special at all in terms of YAC (yards after the catch) on receiver screens or intermediate routes. Less than impressive route running. Route running looked sloppy. Looked average at break-points. Average COD (change of direction). Routes did not look disciplined or crisp. Above average hands, but not good or great (65 catches on 103 targets). Sometimes double clutches the ball, can look too robotic and loses field awareness. If it is not easy or a big money play, tends not to want to go get it or be able to adjust well enough to the ball. Tends not to go out of his way for passes. It needs to be on target. Can get deep and turn it on for Sports Center big plays that showcase his God-given natural ability and then put it back on cruise control the rest of the game. Will stick his nose in there on run blocks but average sustain. Classic big name who has everything except the desire for the game and the playing strength. If the Jets used a high-round draft choice on Olave, it will be a big mistake, especially with Wilson pulling the trigger. Wilson is erratic enough as it is with his ball placement. Wilson desperately needs receivers who can A) take short passes (screens) and turn them into longer gains and he needs competitors who have excellent ability to adjust, when the ball is in the air. Olave is choice C. None of the above. https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/news/former-new-york-jets-scout-says-ohio-state-receiver-chris-olave-will-be-bust 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 19 hours ago, derp said: I think the difference between WR and CB is we’ve seen Douglas value the former more than the latter. Not sure healthy Ross or Pickens even exists any more either. Both those guys seem to have a skill set that isn’t valued with this offense either. I don’t know if we can really say anything about Ruggs’ development since he got under a season and a half. Folks knew he’d take time. I’d just think if you want to bag on fast guys getting overprojected you’ve got John Ross, DHB, Ted Ginn… Like I said I think speed is overrated but it’ll get drafted high. Speed guys were never your thing anyway really right? I do think WR early this year is super, super clean though with Crowder expiring. You can get a guy starter snaps as the third receiver and build him up. Offense needs skill talent and speed. It’s a premium position that you pretty much have the whole class at your disposal with the Seattle pick. Not sure where else they go there. Edge with one of the picks. Other one is overinvest in OL, early LB for a defense that doesn’t seem to value, another CB in a busy room for a defense that doesn’t seem to value, another DT…WR just feels the cleanest. But we’ll know a lot more after free agency. I don't think you/we can make any kind of assumption about valuing CB over or under WR... that's incredibly broadstroke statement based on what? Drafting Mims and then Moore early? We've been desperate to find a playmaker at the position. He passed on everyone in 2020 until Mims was the last guy left. (smh... lets not get into that)... He also took like 12 DBs in the last draft. I don't even know where to begin with what you said about Pickens. Ross, yes there's legit longevity concerns and a legion of medical staff will be needed to go through the particulars there... but Pickens? 1 injury?.... A skill set that isn't valued?? lol... dude... Dude. Like Higgins, he is a role model outside kind of guy at 6'3 200 who Wilson DESPERATELY needs and Moore has shown to be unable to perform in that 1 area. He got blanketed by bigger DBs trying to run go routes outside and hit those 50/50 balls. So no, I disagree 100000000000% In fact Pickens would be one my top 2nd Round targets. Like Gurely and others though, he should be healthy enough for a full offseason circuit and will likely crawl back into round 1 conversations. Quote Pro Football Focus notes that Georgia sophomore WR George Pickens was the only player in college football to have 75-plus targets while being credited with zero drops. We're not math experts and will never claim to be so, but that seems pretty good. The former five-star recruit was obviously very impressive in his freshman season; particularly in his monster Sugar bowl against Baylor where he caught 12 passes for 175 yards and a touchdown. The 6-foot-3, 175-pound wideout was ranked the ninth best wideout for the 2020 season by Anthony Treash of PFF, and it shouldn't shock anyone if he was among the best wide receivers in the SEC -- and country -- in terms of production this fall. I'll leave the J Williams talk till after i've done some due diligence. I think there's 0% chance we take a WR with our 1st round picks, so if predraft hype is real, then Williams isn't even a possibility. Nor Burks unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 27 minutes ago, Paradis said: I don't think you/we can make any kind of assumption about valuing CB over or under WR... that's incredibly broadstroke statement based on what? Drafting Mims and then Moore early? We've been desperate to find a playmaker at the position. He passed on everyone in 2020 until Mims was the last guy left. (smh... lets not get into that)... He also took like 12 DBs in the last draft. I don't even know where to begin with what you said about Pickens. Ross, yes there's legit longevity concerns and a legion of medical staff will be needed to go through the particulars there... but Pickens? 1 injury?.... A skill set that isn't valued?? lol... dude... Dude. Like Higgins, he is a role model outside kind of guy at 6'3 200 who Wilson DESPERATELY needs and Moore has shown to be unable to perform in that 1 area. He got blanketed by bigger DBs trying to run go routes outside and hit those 50/50 balls. So no, I disagree 100000000000% In fact Pickens would be one my top 2nd Round targets. Like Gurely and others though, he should be healthy enough for a full offseason circuit and will likely crawl back into round 1 conversations. I'll leave the J Williams talk till after i've done some due diligence. I think there's 0% chance we take a WR with our 1st round picks, so if predraft hype is real, then Williams isn't even a possibility. Nor Burks unfortunately. Listen there’s never anything definitive but I think the bold is exactly why I suspect they value WR over CB - bunch of day three picks because that’s how they think they can fill that room. Plus the CB room is already pretty full and the WR room is pretty barren. Also maybe take me literally instead of extending what I wrote something else. “We’ve seen Douglas value the former more than the latter.” Two second round picks and the Corey Davis contract versus a bunch of day three picks and no free agents constitutes valuing one position more than the other so far. Could it change? Sure. But that valuation also lines up with scheme and also lines up with wanting to have a good situation for a young QB. In this offense? We see they don’t value the downfield minimum separation contested ball guys with Mims. San Francisco doesn’t run out those guys either and they also haven’t worked out in Green Bay. I know you love the skill set and I understand the potential value to complementing current guys and how the outside 50/50 guys line up with what Wilson did in college but if the guy’s potentially not going to get on the field because he’s not an on the ground separator who can play multiple positions then what does it matter if it’s a skill set that translates? The take me literally extends to Pickens’ health too. He’s lean and hasn’t come back from the ACL yet - often guys heal well and sometimes they don’t. You even said “should be healthy” all I was getting at is we haven’t seen him post injury. How often do we fall in love with an injured guy’s value in the draft or a player’s freshman year highlights and wonder why he fell and it turns out he’s just not the same as he was pre injury? Happens all the time. You’ve got to know 0% WR is a hyperbolic statement. What do you think they take in the first round? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 18 minutes ago, derp said: Listen there’s never anything definitive but I think the bold is exactly why I suspect they value WR over CB - bunch of day three picks because that’s how they think they can fill that room. Plus the CB room is already pretty full and the WR room is pretty barren. In this offense? We see they don’t value the downfield minimum separation contested ball guys with Mims. San Francisco doesn’t run out those guys either and they also haven’t worked out in Green Bay. I know you love the skill set and I understand the potential value to complementing current guys and how the outside 50/50 guys line up with what Wilson did in college but if the guy’s potentially not going to get on the field because he’s not an on the ground separator who can play multiple positions then what does it matter if it’s a skill set that translates? He’s also lean and hasn’t come back from the ACL yet - often guys heal well and sometimes they don’t. You even said “should be healthy” all I was getting at is we haven’t seen him post injury. How often do we fall in love with an injured guy’s value in the draft or a player’s freshman year highlights and wonder why he fell and it turns out he’s just not the same as he was pre injury? Happens all the time. Everyone values a downfield game. But when your QB is Jimmy G, you work with what you got. Lafleur isn't Shanny, and even so, the true Shanny/Kubiak offense has always had a strong X guy like DT, or Julio, McCaffrey etc. Zach's Wilson arm and ability would definitely favor having Pickens or similar type of tall WR. Either way, i'm confused, you want/like Williams to be lid lifter down field guy, but you dismiss the same proposition if favors jump ball ability? You simply want the Tyreek effect? Feels a little fantastical. btw -- Pickens will be playing in the bowl games and will be able to workout this cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 29 minutes ago, Paradis said: Everyone values a downfield game. But when your QB is Jimmy G, you work with what you got. Lafleur isn't Shanny, and even so, the true Shanny/Kubiak offense has always had a strong X guy like DT, or Julio, McCaffrey etc. Zach's Wilson arm and ability would definitely favor having Pickens or similar type of tall WR. Either way, i'm confused, you want/like Williams to be lid lifter down field guy, but you dismiss the same proposition if favors jump ball ability? You simply want the Tyreek effect? Feels a little fantastical. btw -- Pickens will be playing in the bowl games and will be able to workout this cycle. Totally agree. Look at MLF’s brother in Green Bay. Adams, Lazard, Valdez’s-Scantling. I think that’s what JD and MLF intended to try to emulate somewhat with the signings of Davis and Cole. If you add a true X, I think he becomes Zach’s best friend. At the very least he’s a guy you can just throw it up to if in man coverage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 hour ago, derp said: Listen there’s never anything definitive but I think the bold is exactly why I suspect they value WR over CB - bunch of day three picks because that’s how they think they can fill that room. Plus the CB room is already pretty full and the WR room is pretty barren. Also maybe take me literally instead of extending what I wrote something else. “We’ve seen Douglas value the former more than the latter.” Two second round picks and the Corey Davis contract versus a bunch of day three picks and no free agents constitutes valuing one position more than the other so far. Could it change? Sure. But that valuation also lines up with scheme and also lines up with wanting to have a good situation for a young QB. In this offense? We see they don’t value the downfield minimum separation contested ball guys with Mims. San Francisco doesn’t run out those guys either and they also haven’t worked out in Green Bay. I know you love the skill set and I understand the potential value to complementing current guys and how the outside 50/50 guys line up with what Wilson did in college but if the guy’s potentially not going to get on the field because he’s not an on the ground separator who can play multiple positions then what does it matter if it’s a skill set that translates? The take me literally extends to Pickens’ health too. He’s lean and hasn’t come back from the ACL yet - often guys heal well and sometimes they don’t. You even said “should be healthy” all I was getting at is we haven’t seen him post injury. How often do we fall in love with an injured guy’s value in the draft or a player’s freshman year highlights and wonder why he fell and it turns out he’s just not the same as he was pre injury? Happens all the time. You’ve got to know 0% WR is a hyperbolic statement. What do you think they take in the first round? Pickens played in the SEC Championship game. He should be a full go for the Michigan game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 51 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: Totally agree. Look at MLF’s brother in Green Bay. Adams, Lazard, Valdez’s-Scantling. I think that’s what JD and MLF intended to try to emulate somewhat with the signings of Davis and Cole. If you add a true X, I think he becomes Zach’s best friend. At the very least he’s a guy you can just throw it up to if in man coverage As an OC, you know you're not going to get separation on every play everytime - especially outside. You need someone to win contested balls and play through traffic. We definitely don't have that guy right now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Paradis said: As an OC, you know you're not going to get separation on every play everytime - especially outside. You need someone to win contested balls and play through traffic. We definitely don't have that guy right now. No doubt. Just look at what happens when the Jets get in the red zone, no possibility for a fade route or quick slants in traffic. I feel like its the same conversation every year…Lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 30 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: No doubt. Just look at what happens when the Jets get in the red zone, no possibility for a fade route or quick slants in traffic. I feel like its the same conversation every year…Lol. sadly, it does feel like these conversations happen on a treadmill.... and yea, so true. Inside the 10 - we're surviving on misdirection through the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Paradis said: Everyone values a downfield game. But when your QB is Jimmy G, you work with what you got. Lafleur isn't Shanny, and even so, the true Shanny/Kubiak offense has always had a strong X guy like DT, or Julio, McCaffrey etc. Zach's Wilson arm and ability would definitely favor having Pickens or similar type of tall WR. Either way, i'm confused, you want/like Williams to be lid lifter down field guy, but you dismiss the same proposition if favors jump ball ability? You simply want the Tyreek effect? Feels a little fantastical. btw -- Pickens will be playing in the bowl games and will be able to workout this cycle. It’s the YAC ability in my opinion. Pickens is tall, lanky, body control, sideline, but I see a lot of catch and fall down. I think the contested ability skill set is underrated in general as it translates well - mostly it’s ball skills that translate so it can be hit or miss. Again, I understand the potential value to Wilson - I just think it’s very possible you’re going to spend this regime’s tenure beating your head against a wall wanting a Pickens type receiver and watching them repeatedly pass. I don’t see them valuing a guy who’s going to be a contested catch guy on the sideline in this scheme. I think they want a YAC component - Williams is more vertical and YAC - Pickens is contested without a lot of YAC. Could be wrong - it’s just my interpretation of who they’ve brought in, who they’re putting on the field, etc. I agree they’d benefit from a big body and it’s why I think Burks is the best fit. You brought up Julio, DT - thick, athletic, explosive YAC guys. Aware Pickens is back. Hasn’t looked the same yet. It’s been a really fast recovery. We’ll see. I hope he comes back the same eventually, he’s so early in the healing process. Just don’t think it’s a given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 2 hours ago, sec101row23 said: Pickens played in the SEC Championship game. He should be a full go for the Michigan game. Yup, he also hasn’t looked the same since coming back. I’m not saying he’s dead and his career is over, he shouldn’t even be playing yet on a regular timeline and it’s impressive he’s in games at all, but let’s pump the breaks before saying there’s a 0% chance the Jets take a first round receiver and this is the guy in the second round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 54 minutes ago, derp said: It’s the YAC ability in my opinion. Pickens is tall, lanky, body control, sideline, but I see a lot of catch and fall down. I think the contested ability skill set is underrated in general as it translates well - mostly it’s ball skills that translate so it can be hit or miss. Again, I understand the potential value to Wilson - I just think it’s very possible you’re going to spend this regime’s tenure beating your head against a wall wanting a Pickens type receiver and watching them repeatedly pass. I don’t see them valuing a guy who’s going to be a contested catch guy on the sideline in this scheme. I think they want a YAC component - Williams is more vertical and YAC - Pickens is contested without a lot of YAC. Could be wrong - it’s just my interpretation of who they’ve brought in, who they’re putting on the field, etc. I agree they’d benefit from a big body and it’s why I think Burks is the best fit. You brought up Julio, DT - thick, athletic, explosive YAC guys. Aware Pickens is back. Hasn’t looked the same yet. It’s been a really fast recovery. We’ll see. I hope he comes back the same eventually, he’s so early in the healing process. Just don’t think it’s a given. Another guy that fits the bill Erik Ezukanma from Texas Tech. Probably a mid to late 3rd rd guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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