Who would be your first pick at WR?

[derp]

13 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Typically it would be “hard” to see a scenario where 2 WRs are graded higher than some other positional prospects. That first pick; unless we have a really high grade on Burks or Williams - I don’t know if it’s realistic to think they’ll call either over some of the defensive players and OLINE names. A trade back would be ideal…. But you never know. CIN had all the reason in the world to take OLINE last year after Borrow got slaughtered and the team already had Boyd and Higgins… so who knows. 

Trade back would absolutely be beneficial.

I was all in on OL for a while but some discussions have me re-evaluating. I think if they sign a guard it’s off the table, and I’d be kind of surprised if they don’t sign a guard. There will be a couple good fits out there - and younger ascending JD style free agents not Scherff who I think we’ll clamor for and they’ll pass on.

It’s hard to figure out what they do with the Seattle pick assuming they take an edge with the first (because I think one of those two picks is an edge). I don’t see a DB - Stingley is coming off injury, they have a pretty full room with a bunch of cheap rookies who are at least athletic and they aren’t playing badly for inexperienced day three picks on a team without much pass rush. Safety Hamilton could be in play but we really don’t know how they value it and it’s certainly not something they’d traditionally do top ten.

Linebacker is a need but isn’t really a traditional top ten pick either off ball and they’ve tried to invest cheaply after SF invested cheaply running Saleh’s defense. Honestly heads would explode but I think after edge on the defensive side of the ball DT lines up most with what they value - maybe they want to move Travon Walker or Leal around.

Offense is easier - obviously RB/TE don’t match value there. Offensive line there’s only one starting position open barring a trade of some kind and I doubt they’re taking an OL in the top ten to sit a year so FA will tell whether that’s in play there - even if not they could wait till day two for a right guard so it’s not a yes/no it’s a maybe/no. And then WR is a need in a similar way - do they let that WR3 slot roll into the draft or so they fill in FA? We’ll know so much more after the free agent period.

Have some thoughts on your contested catch stuff that I’m still trying to organize too but I do think the WR position in the NFL is really interesting right now because of the rule changes.

[IntoTheGreen]

@Paradis there seems to be a lot of contested catch guys in round two. What's your take on the second tier guys: Doubs, Ross, Dotson, Tolbert, and Ezukanma?

 

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Typically it would be “hard” to see a scenario where 2 WRs are graded higher than some other positional prospects. That first pick; unless we have a really high grade on Burks or Williams - I don’t know if it’s realistic to think they’ll call either over some of the defensive players and OLINE names. A trade back would be ideal…. But you never know. CIN had all the reason in the world to take OLINE last year after Borrow got slaughtered and the team already had Boyd and Higgins… so who knows. 

I think douglas would love to trade back from 3 or 4 but at this point with the lack of top qb prospects i doubt he’ll be able to.  So i think it’s reasonable to anticipate that there will be a coveted pass rusher there and that will be that.  Value meets need.

even if douglas is able to trade back with Seattle’s pick, i can still see him going defense over one of the top wrs.  The jets will have a top pick in the 2nd, and if forced to predict now, I’m guessing they go defense 2x in round 1, with a trade back, and then go wr/OG in round 2.  

[nycdan]

4 hours ago, derp said:

There hasn’t been a Julio or Megatron since Julio a decade ago. The 2003-2011 classes really warped my perception of top of the draft wide receivers. Andre Johnson, Fitzgerald, Megatron, Julio, AJ Green. Top of the draft has been different since those guys. Mike Evans was probably the closest and even he was back in 2014.

Agreed that there seems to have been a dropoff in top-end WR talent since around 2014 (Hopkins and Adams were both drafted around then as well I think).  I think the closest I can come up with in the last 7 years is DK Metcalf.  He's got all the makings of a dominant WR although he might need to get out of SEA when Russ leaves to keep that up.

[derp]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Agreed that there seems to have been a dropoff in top-end WR talent since around 2014 (Hopkins and Adams were both drafted around then as well I think).  I think the closest I can come up with in the last 7 years is DK Metcalf.  He's got all the makings of a dominant WR although he might need to get out of SEA when Russ leaves to keep that up.

I think it’s a different style of guy than the past ones. Fitz and Green were both 6’3+ 210+ and had good college production at the time. Then both Johnson’s and Julio were 6’3+ 220+ and ran in the 4.3’s.

Metcalf and Claypool have fallen into the latter category but with more questions about how they translate and gone in the second round. Both produce but I’m not sure either develops into a consistent primary option.

Burks has a chance to fall into that physical category as well but probably goes in the first.

We’re seeing smaller more polished guys translate and a wider variety of guys play at a really high level. Often now it’s not the freaks but the pretty average guys physically - 5’11-6’2, 200ish - who have strong hands and run good routes.

I do think with how illegal contact and defensive holding are enforced now there’s more of a path to success now if you’re a good route runner who can catch outside their frame or just plain fast.

Dudes like Will Fuller and Robby Anderson have value despite being lean and inconsistent but if you’ve got someone who can beat the defense for 6 from anywhere on the field if they fall asleep it opens up a lot - particularly if you’ve got a quarterback who can buy time and will throw it deep.

But the trend now seems to be more towards that first group - the Diggs, Adams, Jefferson, Hopkins types. Nothing insane about their tools they’re just good at playing the position. Kupp, Chase, Godwin, Dionte, Lamb, Lockett, DJ Moore, Allen. Samuel is similar height wise but thicker and Hill of course is a freak. Those beast WR’s just aren’t running the league like they used to. Part of why I still think the day two picks are where it’s at for WR’s.

I think I listed 14 guys. Hopkins is not currently in the the top 16 of receiving yards, the rest are along with Tee Higgins, Mark Andrews, and Travis Kelce. Obviously offenses are a factor but Higgins is the only one above 6’2 (besides the TE’s of course), Hill the only one who ran sub 4.4, Chase the only first half of the first round pick, and of the other 15 only Lamb, Jefferson, and Moore went in the first (plus Hopkins) and Hill and Diggs went day three. So 10 of the top 16 receiving yardage guys in the league went day two, 13 of the top 16 went between 17 and day two, and of the 14 WR’s two weren’t 6’2 or shorter and 4.4 or slower.

Long winded way of saying NFL teams have tried to identify what makes a good WR and they’re not great at it. Obviously that’s just this year but teams have forced early picks for a while without those freak WR’s and it hasn’t worked out well. The same issue exists very clearly for QB.

It’s also a fun way to look at the speed/size discussion @Paradis and I have been having and laugh and say we’re both wrong and @Chrebetfan80 is right (I’m oversimplifying as I know Paradis doesn’t just want big WR’s and I deep down I know a speed WR early is a huge gamble at best and irresponsible use of draft capital at worst - though I still an fairly confident a team does it anyway because NFL teams never learn). But yeah, much as a WR early is enticing and those profiles are exciting that back half of the first round to day two range is the sweet spot to draft the position. Take who falls and even if it’s not who you thought you wanted on draft day decent chance it works out. Even with the freaks like Claypool and Metcalf (and Burks?) it’s better risk/reward.

[GreenFish]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

I think douglas would love to trade back from 3 or 4 but at this point with the lack of top qb prospects i doubt he’ll be able to.  So i think it’s reasonable to anticipate that there will be a coveted pass rusher there and that will be that.  Value meets need.

even if douglas is able to trade back with Seattle’s pick, i can still see him going defense over one of the top wrs.  The jets will have a top pick in the 2nd, and if forced to predict now, I’m guessing they go defense 2x in round 1, with a trade back, and then go wr/OG in round 2.  

There are a couple of QBs with first round grades. Teams will favor one and want jump for there guy.

I could see Washington jumping up for QB. 

[GreenFish]

Jameson Williams I think would fit nicely in that Z role. He gives Zach a much needed deep threat who is also good in YAC situations. He will also give Moore a lot of breathing room underneath.

[Lurker89]

On 12/28/2021 at 8:22 PM, IntoTheGreen said:

You pick before the draft? Or is that who you want to draft depending what team gets him after?

We pick after the draft... yeah he is one of a few prospects I'm mulling. If he ends up with us... I'll be happy as a Jets fan and probably taking one of the RB Prospects. 

 

[IntoTheGreen]

14 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

We pick after the draft... yeah he is one of a few prospects I'm mulling. If he ends up with us... I'll be happy as a Jets fan and probably taking one of the RB Prospects. 

 

Ya, I think I'm going to have the first or second pick. I prefer a stud RB. A lot will depend on where these guys fall.

 

[Lurker89]

2 hours ago, IntoTheGreen said:

Ya, I think I'm going to have the first or second pick. I prefer a stud RB. A lot will depend on where these guys fall.

 

I blew my team up this year traded Amari Cooper for 2 firsts and Keenan Allen for another 1st. 4 1st rounders total this year.

I have picks 2,9,11,12,13... ?

Looking  for that can't miss prospect at 2 WR/RB. I like Burks and Spiller

Taking into account WR longevity compared to RBs I can be partial  to top WRs but their are a lot of WRs in this draft. In reality I'll probably go Spiller or Hall 1.02 followed by a QB and WRs.

[sec101row23]

A really good matchup today between Jameson Williams and Sauce Gardner.   I hope Gardner tries to bully and press Williams at the line.   Gardner has the length and size to push Williams around, I want to see how Williams handles that, working through some contact and being able to beat press man is probably the biggest question mark for me regarding Williams.   I’m sure Alabama will have Williams in the slot a decent amount to remedy this, but I do hope we can see some Gardner/Williams battles today.  

[PLO]

22 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

A really good matchup today between Jameson Williams and Sauce Gardner.   I hope Gardner tries to bully and press Williams at the line.   Gardner has the length and size to push Williams around, I want to see how Williams handles that, working through some contact and being able to beat press man is probably the biggest question mark for me regarding Williams.   I’m sure Alabama will have Williams in the slot a decent amount to remedy this, but I do hope we can see some Gardner/Williams battles today.  

So, so looking forward to this. Awesome to see a matchup of legit first round talents in a bowl game. 

[IntoTheGreen]

13 hours ago, Lurker89 said:

I blew my team up this year traded Amari Cooper for 2 firsts and Keenan Allen for another 1st. 4 1st rounders total this year.

I have picks 2,9,11,12,13... ?

Looking  for that can't miss prospect at 2 WR/RB. I like Burks and Spiller

Taking into account WR longevity compared to RBs I can be partial  to top WRs but their are a lot of WRs in this draft. In reality I'll probably go Spiller or Hall 1.02 followed by a QB and WRs.

That was me last year. Ended up with pick 4 instead of 1 because we changed the rules for a year based on consolation bracket reverse order got ETN, Zach Wilson and Carter. Traded a 3rd this year and conditional second next for Watson. 

I have kupp and pittman. Gotta hope one of Michael Thomas, Golladay, Chark, or Samuel do something and I'll be decent if Watson plays or dare I say Wilson improves. 

[sec101row23]

3 hours ago, PLO said:

So, so looking forward to this. Awesome to see a matchup of legit first round talents in a bowl game. 

Agreed.   Also interested in watching Alec Pierce and Josh Whyle against the Bama secondary.   Both guys could be good fits in the mid rounds for the Jets.  

[Paradis]

On 12/31/2021 at 5:59 AM, sec101row23 said:

A really good matchup today between Jameson Williams and Sauce Gardner.   I hope Gardner tries to bully and press Williams at the line.   Gardner has the length and size to push Williams around, I want to see how Williams handles that, working through some contact and being able to beat press man is probably the biggest question mark for me regarding Williams.   I’m sure Alabama will have Williams in the slot a decent amount to remedy this, but I do hope we can see some Gardner/Williams battles today.  

what did you see from this showdown yesterday. I haven't seen the game, but i saw some clips with Gardner holding his own... though someone else said Williams showed some tenacity underneath. 

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

what did you see from this showdown yesterday. I haven't seen the game, but i saw some clips with Gardner holding his own... though someone else said Williams showed some tenacity underneath. 

Gardner is good, no doubt, good in the run game as well.  Arguably CB1.  The way Cincy plays defense he stays exclusively on the boundary side of the field and Bryant plays the field side, so we didn’t see a lot of Gardner and Williams matched up.   
 

Bama had Williams play the Metchie role against Cincy, he looked pretty good.   There’s definitely some more route running ability there than what he’s shown during this season.  He’s good at getting in and out of breaks and catches the ball pretty easily.  It would be great to be able to see him in a Senior Bowl setting since he essentially only has this season’s tape to evaluate.  

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Gardner is good, no doubt, good in the run game as well.  Arguably CB1.  The way Cincy plays defense he stays exclusively on the boundary side of the field and Bryant plays the field side, so we didn’t see a lot of Gardner and Williams matched up.   
 

Bama had Williams play the Metchie role against Cincy, he looked pretty good.   There’s definitely some more route running ability there than what he’s shown during this season.  He’s good at getting in and out of breaks and catches the ball pretty easily.  It would be great to be able to see him in a Senior Bowl setting since he essentially only has this season’s tape to evaluate.  

I'll have to go watch that, cause if anything after watching now 5 games, it gets boring if you can believe it. He has about 5 plays he runs all game. Take away all the motion/sweeps/swings/bubbles -- and he has skinny post, a late double move corner, and kind of a sloppy dig-slant thing. To take that even further, if you take away his production out of that one stack formation concept where he basically gets a free release running long skinnys/corners -- that's about 80% of his production. Corey Coleman's resume looked like this. Different routes, but... just saying.

I came away willing to give him more credit with footwork and his release, but i see some particulars with routes he struggles with. He' doesn't have (IMO) great short area quickness. Sounds crazy, but i don't seem him wow with start and stop speed-moves. Hard outs and ins, come backs --- sloppy and laggy. When he's in stride - much better catch and go. 

[Paradis]

Watching Garrett Wilson now. What a weird bag of mixed tricks. Mostly a Jack of all master of none type. Craft wise, far ahead of Williams. Put their film on back to back and it’s night and day… Wilson is shifty and is good off the ball and finding those soft spots. Great come backs and closing speed. Awful feet, and average hands. Physically I don’t love his game. WR2 in the NFL. Rasheed Higgins comes to mind 

[win4ever]

On 12/29/2021 at 11:57 AM, derp said:

Certainly wide receiver is different than quarterback - but I do think fit matters both ways. Ohio State had good receivers for sure, I don’t think they really needed Williams because Olave and Wilson are steady and plus athletes at the college level. Williams then went to Alabama and has produced ahead of Metchie who was a projected first round pick - Alabama had more of a need and it turns out Williams is really good. He’s flashed some nuance in route running too from what I’ve seen and Alabama has an awesome track record with receivers. It will definitely be really interesting to see how a skill guy transfer translates but I do think Williams’ time at OSU knocking him below the OSU guys is an oversimplification. Olave was older, too, and a very good college player - no reason to replace him.

I think Olave and Wilson are steadier guys for sure but lack the physical upside. I’ve said this before but put those guys on a team like Buffalo or the Chargers and I think they produce on a good offense across from an alpha receiver. I don’t know if they move the needle much for a team like the Jets or the Bears for example, though it’s possible I’m underrating their physical profiles. I loved Justin Jefferson coming out and right now think of Wilson and Olave as a tick below him.

Overall I think what it boils down to is I believe Jets need a field tilter/offensive centerpiece more than a good receiver and Williams/Burks have a better chance to be the former whereas Wilson/Olave have a higher probability of being the latter.

I think I'm a bit more cautious on Olave right now, I might change his ranking once I get to see some All-22.  I'm a bit worried about his routes actually, because I don't see the suddenness out of breaks.  He's smooth but also seems to round his routes out a bit more than I like, but that's just going off YouTube videos.  I'd love to know if anyone else feels the same way.  I saw a bit too much of simple routes, plus coasting on RPOs, looking for open spots, rather than great route running.

It'll be interesting to see Williams' combine profile, because generally I'm not a huge fan of pure speed guys in college, because they provide such a mismatch.  I wish I saw more in terms of routes, especially cuts and break speed.  

I do agree with the notion that we need to balance needs for the teams, because we need an alpha receiver.  Corey Davis isn't it, and I would like to keep Moore in the slot.  I love Burks, because I think he's a perfect fit for the system that we run, and he has alpha receiver tendencies.  

[Marshmello]

I wonder how fast their 40 times will be.

 

 

[Chrebetfan80]

On 12/29/2021 at 9:32 PM, Paradis said:

I was thinking about this more today and what @derp was saying about my propensity to gush over that... and i think it not just jump ball ability... I think there's nothing more pure and coveted at the position than when WRs can basically "ignore" the DB as they track the ball, high point and sort of almost unconsciously position themselves/their body to make the catch. If you have that inherent skill or trait, you can work on your feet, routes, tops, DB manipulation... but always be able to catch a ball regardless of down and distance, score, coverage, etc etc  I think part of that is developed from a lifetime of being bigger than the DB and not giving a sh*t if he's draped on you. 

I agree its a supremely important skill especially for bigger wrs who have a hard time separating.  To me, that skill develops from guys being bigger but also having a life time of using that to their advantage over their feet.  The problem is at this point while yes you can work on feet and become a good route runner look at what the nfl is becoming.  Look at the WRs that are having consistent sustained success week in and week out.  

Route running has been put at the top of the list of importance for wrs to be successful now. Thats why we're seeing so many of these smaller guys dominate football games.  Kupp, Renfrow, Adams to an extent because he is so good going up for a ball too, but these guys are TECHNICIANS with route running.  I really believe now that if you take a WR that has "a ways to go to be a great route runner" youre putting yourself in a bigger risk of a bust than taking a guy that you know can get open by running crisp routes.  The skill just translates better to the nfl. 

Thats why for me, its the premium, when I watch guys its footwork, stems, releases, break points, hands.  everything else is important too that body control, physicality, yes I want that, yes we need that, but to me those special route runners and great technicians can translate better, and are safer picks.  

Williams right now, if what I hear is right, will show more of his route running prowess as the draft process goes on, this is similar to what I heard about Moore early in the offseason last year which is why I kept moving him up my list over and over again.  I still have Wilson #1 because he is very polished, but I think Williams iwll surprise a few people this offseason. 

[Chrebetfan80]

On 12/29/2021 at 8:54 PM, Paradis said:

All true, but at the end of the day, if you can't catch a ball while another man's mitts are on you -- that's a problem for me. I don't like what I saw in that respect when i took a (limited) close look, but I hope i'm wrong. 

We'll see, I think it will be a moot point anyway as neither of the top guys will be on this team its looking like.  Seems like day 2 will be going to the offense more likely with WR and TE there..  Thats when, like you said, guys like Pickens can becomes more valuable.  After round 2, its a miss mosh for me, there are guys i like but no one that really stands out, just a lot of guys that can do one or two things decent,  There are burners late, there are underneath guys late so there is value, just not really as much impact obviously.  I think this team has to grab a WR by the end of rd 2 in order to have him be a viable contributor this year personally. 

[Chrebetfan80]

Also I should mention this.  After really watching the jets Ive moved off the idea of Wilson being a fit fo the team.  Too redundant a player at this point with the emergence of berrios.  

I loved the pickup when we got him, but man has Berrios made himself into a quality NFL player, his speed has been a nice addition underneath and while he's not the biggest, hes a thick kid who has really handled multiple roles well and shown really great toughness and energy out on the field.  

Him and moore will gobble up any underneath stuff while you can expand moore into that intermediate section of the field.

[Chrebetfan80]

On 12/29/2021 at 9:15 PM, Paradis said:

I dunno. I think it's easy to go there with the jersey and the abundance of those LOS sweeps/screens/wheels/etc and the both explode out of their breaks/windows with the ball. I'm guilty of not spending a ton of time breaking down Waddle's game, so maybe @Chrebetfan80or @sec101row23 can you give an answer to that. Waddle is built different that Williams though and had more "punch" the way he played DBs, versus what i've seen from Williams cutting through defenses like a hot knife in butter.

Two different players to me.  Waddle is more nuanced underneath and better short area quickness.  

To me Williams big advantage underneath is just his ability to instantly accelerate, he's not shifty like waddle is but he's got more juice speed wise.  

If we didnt have moore already a waddle type would be perfect for the offense, but we already have 2 of those guys in Moore and Berrios. 

[Paradis]

4 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

I agree its a supremely important skill especially for bigger wrs who have a hard time separating.  To me, that skill develops from guys being bigger but also having a life time of using that to their advantage over their feet.  The problem is at this point while yes you can work on feet and become a good route runner look at what the nfl is becoming.  Look at the WRs that are having consistent sustained success week in and week out.  

Route running has been put at the top of the list of importance for wrs to be successful now. Thats why we're seeing so many of these smaller guys dominate football games.  Kupp, Renfrow, Adams to an extent because he is so good going up for a ball too, but these guys are TECHNICIANS with route running.  I really believe now that if you take a WR that has "a ways to go to be a great route runner" youre putting yourself in a bigger risk of a bust than taking a guy that you know can get open by running crisp routes.  The skill just translates better to the nfl. 

Thats why for me, its the premium, when I watch guys its footwork, stems, releases, break points, hands.  everything else is important too that body control, physicality, yes I want that, yes we need that, but to me those special route runners and great technicians can translate better, and are safer picks.  

Williams right now, if what I hear is right, will show more of his route running prowess as the draft process goes on, this is similar to what I heard about Moore early in the offseason last year which is why I kept moving him up my list over and over again.  I still have Wilson #1 because he is very polished, but I think Williams iwll surprise a few people this offseason. 

lol i don't think Williams can catch anyone by surprise at this point. He's become the draft darling at the position. After watching watching a bunch of Williams' games now, I think I undervalue just how lethal/coveted his abilities are to an offense. He doesn't need to be Justin Jefferson, anymore than Chase did. I think he has more gaps in his game than you do though. 70% of his production came from basically one bunch formation concept that gets him free release to run a skinny post or corner. You may see some things that tell you he'll be ok in the NFL in that capacity, but there isn't a lot on film. 3-4 routes. That's about it. I came away a less concerned about the catching in traffic stuff, but not crazy about his short game. For a guy that can eviscerate the secondary, he's lacking in short area quickness. His worst routes involves stop/go or making hard cuts. But i get it more now than i do when i started. More than one way to skin a cat. Williams/Moore/Davis+TE can achieve similiar Results to Burks/Moore/Davis + deep threat

But i do think we need to figure out a proper solution on the boundaries. 

We'll have to have a longer conversation on Garrett Wilson. I like him but don't love him. He's crafty as f*ck, but he's also clumsy. Smooth on the outside, but not physical. Not sure i could give him a round 1 grade. I really don't love this WR class. Olave is not a complete WR, really more of an WR3 with big play ability, Drake London is intriguing -- but probably fits in Eric Decker big slot role to start. Athletically he might struggle, despite being a natural. Bell and Tolbert in round 3 is a likely more fitting complimentary piece to Moore/Berrios/Davis... but again. We need a boundary guy now....

*shovels coal into the furnace of the Mike Williams train*

AAAAAALLL ABOOOOARD

[Chrebetfan80]

37 minutes ago, Paradis said:

lol i don't think Williams can catch anyone by surprise at this point. He's become the draft darling at the position. After watching watching a bunch of Williams' games now, I think I undervalue just how lethal/coveted his abilities are to an offense. He doesn't need to be Justin Jefferson, anymore than Chase did. I think he has more gaps in his game than you do though. 70% of his production came from basically one bunch formation concept that gets him free release to run a skinny post or corner. You may see some things that tell you he'll be ok in the NFL in that capacity, but there isn't a lot on film. 3-4 routes. That's about it. I came away a less concerned about the catching in traffic stuff, but not crazy about his short game. For a guy that can eviscerate the secondary, he's lacking in short area quickness. His worst routes involves stop/go or making hard cuts. But i get it more now than i do when i started. More than one way to skin a cat. Williams/Moore/Davis+TE can achieve similiar Results to Burks/Moore/Davis + deep threat

But i do think we need to figure out a proper solution on the boundaries. 

We'll have to have a longer conversation on Garrett Wilson. I like him but don't love him. He's crafty as f*ck, but he's also clumsy. Smooth on the outside, but not physical. Not sure i could give him a round 1 grade. I really don't love this WR class. Olave is not a complete WR, really more of an WR3 with big play ability, Drake London is intriguing -- but probably fits in Eric Decker big slot role to start. Athletically he might struggle, despite being a natural. Bell and Tolbert in round 3 is a likely more fitting complimentary piece to Moore/Berrios/Davis... but again. We need a boundary guy now....

*shovels coal into the furnace of the Mike Williams train*

AAAAAALLL ABOOOOARD

I think what gives me so much promise about williams is his ability to sink his hips in his breaks and come out of them without losing speed.  Its really a special aspect, Alabama doesnt really allow him to show a lot of the skills that he has because like you said he's so good in his one role thats where they use him.  I think against Cincy you saw him use a little more of that underneath game that we probably havent seen all year.  I will conceede though on the short area quickness, that is not his game, more so I think its about his ability to accelerate quickly that allows him to be dangerous underneath.  Crossing routes, deep comebacks, and deep route in the tree, thats where he can be most effective initially.  I do think though that as he progresses he can be really effective in the full tree because of his ability to accelerate and sink his hips smoothly. 

Wilsons route running ability is what makes me think he'll be really good.  What you describe as clumsy I see as sometimes testing the limits of what he can do from a break point and stem perspective.  I think for him.. as clearly polished as he is as a route runner, he's still feeling out some advanced moves and footwork that sometimes he cant fully pull off yet.  But in terms of setting up corners, working in the blind spot, playing with tempos, and getting out of breaks?  I havent watched anyone on film yet that compares to him in this draft.  Is he a first rounder in other drafts?  Im not sure about that, but in this draft what he's bringing to the table is just more advanced than what others are to me.  I have said before and maybe youll disagree, I feel like he can be a robert woods type player.  He's crafty without being very fast, runs good routes, can do a lot of different things, and can sneak deep.  Just seems very fitting a comparison to me. 

The more I watch Olave the less im liking him, I agree overall with you on him. 

Drake london is moving up my list because of his polish already with so little experience.  He's a big body, understands how to get open, he's just slower than you'd like and that goes for his feet too.  Its a little bit of a toss up between him and burks for me because I like london as a WR better, think he catches the ball more naturally, think he understands leverage with his body and how to run routes better, but Burks combines a physicality and speed element.  Its a constant battle for me who is the better guy. 

I like bell and tolbert too, but only if you can get them in round 3.. If that starts pushing into 2 im a little less giddy.  

Mike Williams in FA would be a huge move for this offense and would solve almost all of these issues, although, youd still have to add someone for when get inevitably goes down with an injury. 

[sec101row23]

 

 

 

Any thoughts on London maybe being available at the top of the second round?   It seems the league doesn’t value this type of receiver as much as they did in years past.   We saw Higgins, Pittman, Claypool, and Mims all go in the second round in 2020, although that was a deeper WR class.   
 

I think London can bring some needed skills to this receiver group, he’s a natural at using his body to shield defenders and is as good as it gets when the ball is in the air.   

 

 

[Augustiniak]

30 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

 

 

 

Any thoughts on London maybe being available at the top of the second round?   It seems the league doesn’t value this type of receiver as much as they did in years past.   We saw Higgins, Pittman, Claypool, and Mims all go in the second round in 2020, although that was a deeper WR class.   
 

I think London can bring some needed skills to this receiver group, he’s a natural at using his body to shield defenders and is as good as it gets when the ball is in the air.   

 

 

He seems like a good possession wr but not the guy to get separation.  Ultimately i hope douglas prioritizes speed again and takes the wr he wants and doesn’t get cute like he did when he traded back and landed mims.

[Columbia Jet Fan]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

 

 

 

Any thoughts on London maybe being available at the top of the second round?   It seems the league doesn’t value this type of receiver as much as they did in years past.   We saw Higgins, Pittman, Claypool, and Mims all go in the second round in 2020, although that was a deeper WR class.   
 

I think London can bring some needed skills to this receiver group, he’s a natural at using his body to shield defenders and is as good as it gets when the ball is in the air.   

 

 

I've seen multiple people refer to London as WR1. I don't think there will be a consensus on WRs - but I do think that London, Wilson, and Williams (and maybe Burks) - are R1 locks. 

To add to that - Kiper has him as WR2 (behind Williams) and #7 overall, McShay has him at 12 (WR3 behind Wilson and Williams). Nate Tice and Matt Miller (lol) have him as WR1 - some PFF guys have also had London as WR1. People always fall, and a lot will come down to his medicals - but I don't think he makes it to R2.

[Bronxville Jets Fan]

Great posts on what I consider the biggest question about the draft right now.  Thanks.

[Rhg1084]

Treylon Burks is the best receiver out of this class. Add him to this WR crops next year and Zach will feast 

[Paradis]

On 12/30/2021 at 10:10 AM, IntoTheGreen said:

@Paradis there seems to be a lot of contested catch guys in round two. What's your take on the second tier guys: Doubs, Ross, Dotson, Tolbert, and Ezukanma?

 

Havent made it through most of them yet, but good list. Tolbert is legit. 

[Paradis]

16 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

 

 

 

Any thoughts on London maybe being available at the top of the second round?   It seems the league doesn’t value this type of receiver as much as they did in years past.   We saw Higgins, Pittman, Claypool, and Mims all go in the second round in 2020, although that was a deeper WR class.   
 

I think London can bring some needed skills to this receiver group, he’s a natural at using his body to shield defenders and is as good as it gets when the ball is in the air.   

 

 

I'm falling for Drake pretty hard. He doesn't have speed in its purest form, and I wish he had less cement in his shoes, but you can't deny the talent, the nuances for manipulating the DBs and finding those zones between coverage. Hard not draw Kupp comparisons. He is just so spatially aware with the ball in his hands. Big slot to start and upside to flex out. He's got all the natural talent a WR should have, gonna have to rely on scouts with regards to game speed.

In some ways, he's the antithesis to what we've seen from Corey Davis. 

[Augustiniak]

20 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Treylon Burks is the best receiver out of this class. Add him to this WR crops next year and Zach will feast 

He reminds me of TO.

[sec101row23]

8 hours ago, Paradis said:

I'm falling for Drake pretty hard. He doesn't have speed in its purest form, and I wish he had less cement in his shoes, but you can't deny the talent, the nuances for manipulating the DBs and finding those zones between coverage. Hard not draw Kupp comparisons. He is just so spatially aware with the ball in his hands. Big slot to start and upside to flex out. He's got all the natural talent a WR should have, gonna have to rely on scouts with regards to game speed.

In some ways, he's the antithesis to what we've seen from Corey Davis. 

Totally agree.   Davis hasn’t given the Jets receiver group any “toughness” at all.  He’s been dreadful in contested catch situations and his hands are still really inconsistent.   If I recall that was one of his biggest issues coming out of Western Michigan.  I think London becomes Zach’s best friend on day one, someone to go to when teams go man.   
 

I’m just wondering where London goes in this draft, if he runs 4.55 does he drop a bit?   I really don’t know.