Do Jets have the right people in charge?

[Lurker89]

Seems like some people around here are a little bent out of shape.....

 

[The Crusher]

28 minutes ago, jgb said:

Thankfully I have slats sticking up for me every day in the mod lounge. Then again, Jet Nut provides a lot of entertainment....

I don't envy your decision.

I was referring to Saleh or Douglas. Haha 

[The Crusher]

34 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

They're tied at the hip.

I don't see any conceivable way you could 1) fire Saleh and let Douglas pick another coach or 2) fire Douglas and saddle the new GM with Saleh.

You need to either clean house and let these two see their plan through -- the latter seems like the more likely play.

Probably right. The decision to not have a plan b for Zach not being ready is honestly a fireable offense. Kid should have never been given the starting gig, should have been obvious he needed time. 

[varjet]

The media does not work in a vacuum. There appears to be articles popping up that is questioning the Jets front office. 

Look out below.  

[Matt39]

38 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Its amazing to me also.  After the draft, all the picks I've made in my mind become all pros.  All of them.  Funny how that works

There's a difference between players becoming all-pros and guys completely bombing out of the league. The Jets have had more high draft picks flunk out of football than any other franchise over the last 10 years. It's remarkable at how bad at the draft they've been in the first couple of rounds.

[jgb]

12 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Probably right. The decision to not have a plan b for Zach not being ready is honestly a fireable offense. Kid should have never been given the starting gig, should have been obvious he needed time. 

Terrible error that many posted at the time and not based on hindsight. It was resisted or proclaimed to be an attack on the QB -- and that's fine -- but I hope JD has learned his lesson.

[Sonny Werblin]

I'm confused by those that both think the franchise has been a dumpster fire with bad, or no leadership, for a decade, but who also think that the new administration should be fired if they don't turn things around in 2 seasons. The logic is truly baffling. It takes 53 players to create a winning team. As we've seen, a crappy starting RG can destroy an entire offense, and injuries to starters require that starting quality backups are waiting in the wings to seize their opportunity. You cannot remake a 53 man roster and secure a team's long term future through free agency. The really good franchises draft their players and only use free agency to fill a need they've had no luck filling through the draft.  As Hobson told Linda in Arthur (the original, I didn't see the remake), "Young woman this is a tie you cannot steal, this is a tie you will have to earn." If the Jets want to be a model winning franchise, they will have to earn it by building methodically through the draft and not being distracted by shiny objects and promises of quick fixes.

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

There's a difference between players becoming all-pros and guys completely bombing out of the league. The Jets have had more high draft picks flunk out of football than any other franchise over the last 10 years. It's remarkable at how bad at the draft they've been in the first couple of rounds.

Whatever, the point was my picks are always better after the draft than before the draft just like everyone else who thinks they could be GM of any team, any sport  

I could care less about the history lesson.  JD has nothing to do with Macc, Idzik or whoever.  Im looking at his two drafts.  The first was shaky for sure the 2nd was extremely encouraging.

 

 

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I'm confused by those that both think the franchise has been a dumpster fire with bad, or no leadership, for a decade, who think that the new administration should be fired if they don't turn things around in 2 seasons. The logic is truly baffling. It takes 53 players to create a winning team. As we've seen, a crappy starting RG can destroy an entire offense, and injuries to starters require that starting quality backups are waiting in the wings to seize their opportunity. You cannot remake a 53 man roster and secure a team's long term future through free agency. The really good franchises draft their players and only use free agency to fill a need they've had no luck filling through the draft.  As Hobson told Linda in Arthur (the original, I didn't see the remake), "Young woman this is a tie you cannot steal, this is a tie you will have to earn." If the Jets want to be a model winning franchise, they will have to earn it by building methodically through the draft and not being distracted by shiny objects and promises of quick fixes.

Blowouts, massive amounts of injuries, a low intensity training camp resulting in atrocious tackling during the season makes me think a change might be necessary. The things that need to be implemented to turn around a culture of losing arent being implemented. Parcells tackled the Kotite training room soiree head on. Too many non-competitive games. Too many bad draft picks by Douglas. I dont see the light coming on for either.

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Whatever, the point was my picks are always better after the draft than before the draft just like everyone else who thinks they could be GM of any team, any sport  

I could care less about the history lesson.  JD has nothing to do with Macc, Idzik or whoever.  Im looking at his two drafts.  The first was shaky for sure the 2nd was extremely encouraging.

 

 

All of our picks have been better than the Jets typically. 

[Jetscode1]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I'm confused by those that both think the franchise has been a dumpster fire with bad, or no leadership, for a decade, who think that the new administration should be fired if they don't turn things around in 2 seasons. The logic is truly baffling. It takes 53 players to create a winning team. As we've seen, a crappy starting RG can destroy an entire offense, and injuries to starters require that starting quality backups are waiting in the wings to seize their opportunity. You cannot remake a 53 man roster and secure a team's long term future through free agency. The really good franchises draft their players and only use free agency to fill a need they've had no luck filling through the draft.  As Hobson told Linda in Arthur (the original, I didn't see the remake), "Young woman this is a tie you cannot steal, this is a tie you will have to earn." If the Jets want to be a model winning franchise, they will have to earn it by building methodically through the draft and not being distracted by shiny objects and promises of quick fixes.

Many are very tired of losing and just want to hire and fire, rinse and repeat because their frustrated.  If the years of Macc taught us anything, we cannot overpay B-list (some would say C-list) performers and expect a competitive team.  The complete rebuild was overdue and really the only way to go.  JD and Saleh get another draft to build their foundation and we see what develops.  Hopefully, they are up for the challenge.  I'm excited to see this plan play out.     

[Sonny Werblin]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Blowouts, massive amounts of injuries, a low intensity training camp resulting in atrocious tackling during the season makes me think a change might be necessary. The things that need to be implemented to turn around a culture of losing arent being implemented. Parcells tackled the Kotite training room soiree head on. Too many non-competitive games. Too many bad draft picks by Douglas. I dont see the light coming on for either.

Well, I guess you can root for yet another coaching change. I, for one, like Saleh's steady confidence and since his D's in Frisco were not poor tacklers, I'm not sure how valid it is to put that all on him for this season... perhaps the players are just not that good? Also, not sure what you mean by "The things that need to be implemented to turn around a culture of losing arent being implemented." Perhaps you can expand on that beyond the implication that Saleh needs to be tougher on injured players.

JD had two drafts. 2022 by all accounts looks like a really good draft. 2021 probably not unless Becton comes back and plays well and Mims begins to at least contribute even in a small way.  How in the world is that "too many bad draft picks" over only two drafts? 

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Well, I guess you can root for yet another coaching change. I, for one, like Saleh's steady confidence and since his D's in Frisco were not poor tacklers, I'm not sure how valid it is to put that all on him for this season... perhaps the players are just not that good? Also, not sure what you mean by "The things that need to be implemented to turn around a culture of losing arent being implemented." Perhaps you can expand on that beyond the implication that Saleh needs to be tougher on injured players.

Just less tolerance for injuries that guys can play through. Will be unpopular in this day and age but it's crucial for winning football. Guys have to play. The Becton situation would have never happened under Parcells. He'd either be sent home or he'd be playing. 

Solid tackling is a pillar for winning football. You have to practice it. You have to maximize the practices you have in pads in camp with the new CBA rules. The Jets were having 2 hour practices or less. That's insane. The Jets seem to take everything easy. There was just a lack of intensity from the get go. Hell they pulled everyone out of the Eagles preseason game because it was raining. For such a young team that was unbelievable. 

[Sonny Werblin]

8 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Just less tolerance for injuries that guys can play through. Will be unpopular in this day and age but it's crucial for winning football. Guys have to play. The Becton situation would have never happened under Parcells. He'd either be sent home or he'd be playing. 

Solid tackling is a pillar for winning football. You have to practice it. You have to maximize the practices you have in pads in camp with the new CBA rules. The Jets were having 2 hour practices or less. That's insane. The Jets seem to take everything easy. There was just a lack of intensity from the get go. Hell they pulled everyone out of the Eagles preseason game because it was raining. For such a young team that was unbelievable. 

So Becton is the measure for "lack of tolerance" for injured players not playing injured? I feel that is silly. Are you saying that there are a bunch of players who are refusing to play injured? If so, please name them.

Once again, Saleh's D's in Frisco were not poor tacklers. If your saying he needs to be more intense in TC, perhaps we should give him more than one TC to see if he evolves. I was much better at my job in year 2 than I was in year 1. Lots of valuable lessons in stuff that didn't go as well as I had hoped in year. BTW, Year 10 and then year 20 and year 25 saw me get better an better. I'm so glad I was not sh*tcanned after year 1. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

So Becton is the measure for "lack of tolerance" for injured players not playing injured? I feel that is silly. Are you saying that there are a bunch of players who are refusing to play injured? If so, please name them.

Once again, Saleh's D's in Frisco were not poor tacklers. If your saying he needs to be more intense in TC, perhaps we should give him more than one TC to see if he evolves. I was much better at my job in year 2 than I was in year 1. Lots of valuable lessons in stuff that didn't go as well as I had hoped in year. BTW, Year 10 and then year 20 and year 25 saw me get better an better. I'm so glad I was not sh*tcanned after year 1. 

I think a team is less inclined to push -- and players are less inclined to push through -- injuries and play at less than 100% if there is nothing left to play for in a season.

[Peace Frog]

14 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Well, I guess you can root for yet another coaching change. I, for one, like Saleh's steady confidence and since his D's in Frisco were not poor tacklers, I'm not sure how valid it is to put that all on him for this season... perhaps the players are just not that good? Also, not sure what you mean by "The things that need to be implemented to turn around a culture of losing arent being implemented." Perhaps you can expand on that beyond the implication that Saleh needs to be tougher on injured players.

JD had two drafts. 2022 by all accounts looks like a really good draft. 2021 probably not unless Becton comes back and plays well and Mims begins to at least contribute even in a small way.  How in the world is that "too many bad draft picks" over only two drafts? 

2 drafts, the first one when he had barely been in his seat for a different coahcing staff and the second one looking very very good.

Yup, time to cut bait, he's a failure.  

Lol.  

Yeah, I'm not bailing on a GM or a Coach universally acknowledged as great hires.

Fix the talent level, the team will prosper.  

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

So Becton is the measure for "lack of tolerance" for injured players not playing injured? I feel that is silly. Are you saying that there are a bunch of players who are refusing to play injured? If so, please name them.

Once again, Saleh's D's in Frisco were not poor tacklers. If your saying he needs to be more intense in TC, perhaps we should give him more than one TC to see if he evolves. I was much better at my job in year 2 than I was in year 1. Lots of valuable lessons in stuff that didn't go as well as I had hoped in year. BTW, Year 10 and then year 20 and year 25 saw me get better an better. I'm so glad I was not sh*tcanned after year 1. 

Becton spent the entire offseason "hurt" got destroyed in camp then got hurt week 1 and hasnt seen the field again. This was not an out for the year type of injury.

We'll see how next seasons camp goes. I hope guys get more reps, they practice in pads more and practices are longer. You have to put in the work to turn things around.

[rangerous]

former nfl execs determine if douglas/saleh will work?  huh?  seems to me some former nfl execs thought the mac/bowles tandem was going to work too.  how'd that work out.  all of these former execs are former for a reason.  tanny really didn't have any football acumen.  he was a bean counter.  same thing with idzik.  this is just a stupid article.

[Peace Frog]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

I think a team is less inclined to push -- and players are less inclined to push through -- injuries and play at less than 100% if there is nothing left to play for in a season.

I agree with you 100% but there is one outlier.  And I almost started a thread on him the other day.

Quinnen Williams has been dunked on by quite a few fans as fat lazy a quitter.

The dude had the PERFECT opportunity to mail it in 2 weeks ago.

Laying on the ground, not moving his arm, patting it with the other hand.  Clearly the guy was done, torn pec or bicep or deltoid.

Done.  For the year.

Except 10 minutes later he puts a strap on and is back on the field.  And is back for again this past week.  

Has he been great?  Pro Bowler? Probably not but the guy could have quit then and there and no one would have made a peep. 

Dude deserves some props.  

[Biggs]

I'm optimistic about Douglas and very pesimistic about Saleh.   If you're going to build through the draft you need teachers not cheerleaders. 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I agree with you 100% but there is one outlier.  And I almost started a thread on him the other day.

Quinnen Williams has been dunked on by quite a few fans as fat lazy a quitter.

The dude had the PERFECT opportunity to mail it in 2 weeks ago.

Laying on the ground, not moving his arm, patting it with the other hand.  Clearly the guy was done, torn pec or bicep or deltoid.

Done.  For the year.

Except 10 minutes later he puts a strap on and is back on the field.  And is back for again this past week.  

Has he been great?  Pro Bowler? Probably not but the guy could have quit then and there and no one would have made a peep. 

Dude deserves some props.  

Agree with you on Q. I'm talking in the general sense. Some guys have the heart and fire within them and don't take the easy road. Those guys are class acts.

[Peace Frog]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Becton spent the entire offseason "hurt" got destroyed in camp then got hurt week 1 and hasnt seen the field again. This was not an out for the year type of injury.

 

Dislocated kneecap, torn cartilage, surgery.

No one, not even his surgeons, can accurately predict when he'd heal. 4-8 weeks could very well have been 4-20 weeks.  

But we've got some doctors here making diagnoses. 

Dislocated kneecap.  Yeah, get back out there fatty.  

[Peace Frog]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Agree with you on Q. I'm talking in the general sense. Some guys have the heart and fire within them and don't take the easy road. Those guys are class acts.

Totally agree.  

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Dislocated kneecap, torn cartilage, surgery.

No one, not even his surgeons, can accurately predict when he'd heal. 4-8 weeks could very well have been 4-20 weeks.  

But we've got some doctors here making diagnoses. 

Dislocated kneecap.  Yeah, get back out there fatty.  

He’s not playing because he’s not in shape. His knee is healed. He’s irrelevant at this point anyways as we’ve seen the last of him on the Jets. 

[Peace Frog]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

He’s not playing because he’s not in shape. His knee is healed. He’s irrelevant at this point anyways as we’ve seen the last of him on the Jets. 

Please shoot us his medical reports.  Screw HIPPA, we won't tell.  

Yeah, I'm sure he's getting cut or traded.

[GangGreened]

5 years at least LOL

[Sonny Werblin]

23 minutes ago, jgb said:

I think a team is less inclined to push -- and players are less inclined to push through -- injuries and play at less than 100% if there is nothing left to play for in a season.

And the evidence of this occurring on the current jets is?

[Sonny Werblin]

19 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Becton spent the entire offseason "hurt" got destroyed in camp then got hurt week 1 and hasnt seen the field again. This was not an out for the year type of injury.

We'll see how next seasons camp goes. I hope guys get more reps, they practice in pads more and practices are longer. You have to put in the work to turn things around.

My point is even if Becton is dogging it, that is hardly evidence that is occurring teamwide.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

And the evidence of this is?

Haven't seen studies (would love to, if you have any) but we all know of examples of players delaying surgeries when their teams are still in the hunt. Another famous example is when TO played through a broken leg for the Eagles in the Super Bowl. No way he does that in week 17 during a 3-12 season. It's also just common sense from a team's perspective. Start ensuring you get/keep guys healthy for the next season when that one is lost.

[Matt39]

28 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Please shoot us his medical reports.  Screw HIPPA, we won't tell.  

Yeah, I'm sure he's getting cut or traded.

It’s not that deep. Football players play. Guys who want to be in the trainers room don’t.

[ZachEY]

It is possible to both understand that #THISTAKESTIME and also be extremely disappointed with the early returns, including the 2020 draft and the #2 overall pick in 2021.

[Peace Frog]

11 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

It’s not that deep. Football players play. Guys who want to be in the trainers room don’t.

Can you let us know when you'll be in the buidling next?

Maybe take some pictures, grab the medical report.  Give Bechton a piece of your mind? 

Btw, I've played hockey with a guy who dislocated his kneecap.  Gruesome. Couldn't walk normal for a year.  

You literally have no idea what you are talking anbout.  

[Peace Frog]

2 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

It is possible to both understand that #THISTAKESTIME and also be extremely disappointed with the early returns, including the 2020 draft and the #2 overall pick in 2021.

Totally fair.  I'm with you.  Disappointing is an understatement. 

The 2020 draft is looking REALLY awful and Zach has clearly not been good. 

Just don't repeat it over an over and over and over again in every thread with different variations of the same theme but with deragatory terms.  

[T0mShane]

My ranking of Most Problematic Jets personnel (excluding Zach Wilson, who is terrific) starts with Saleh, who has done nothing well since being hired, and further down the list is Douglas. If Douglas hopes to survive, he needs to step in and whack some of these bums that Saleh has hired and bring in some experienced hands, preferably at DC. Saleh is possibly the most inept coach I’ve seen here since Kotite.

[T0mShane]

28 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

It’s not that deep. Football players play. Guys who want to be in the trainers room don’t.

I think Becton needs to be constantly pushed and nobody on the coaching staff is capable of it because Saleh surrounded himself with weak personalities who wouldn’t threaten his job.