Do Jets have the right people in charge?

[Biggs]

Just now, slats said:

Massive loss of credibility right here. Mangenius got run out of Cleveland and, except for a short stint with Jim Harbaugh who opted not to bring him to college, has been out of football ever since. He sucks, and everyone but some odd, hanger-on Jet fans seem to understand it. 

Massive loss of Cred.  Is that like 2 thumbs down or 3?  

First draft D'Brick, Mangold, Brad Smith and Leon Washington along with a backup QB who had an 11 year NFL career.  He also took a NY Jets team that went 4 and 12 to the playoffs as a rookie HC.   By any metric his first year as a HC blows Saleh away.  He's first draft blows Douglas away.   

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I'm going to argue with you merely because we agree with each other 99% of the time and I'm tired of arguing with the same people on the board all the time.

Douglas has a sound theory in place, but he is very poor at executing it thus far. Building through the draft and signing value free agents is the best way to build a team, but you still have to hit on your picks. If you told me to save for retirement by funding an IRA, that is sound advice. If I told you I was funding my IRA by investing in VCRs, I'm not going to do well. 

Yes, the 2020 draft was hamstrung because of Covid, 1st year, etc. However, Wirfs was a higher rated player than Becton by many NFL draft folks and Wirfs has, so far, been a superior player. Douglas had good receivers available in the second when he traded back, but he traded back. That could have been called into question immediately even though many of us (myself included) wanted Mims. Passing on other WRs in the third for Davis and Zuniga was immediately criticized by many of us. Bryce Hall is a nice starter, but let's not pretend he's Revis either. Hall is likely never going to sniff a pro bowl. 

I think the 2021 draft is ok. I'm bored of discussing Wilson. AVT looks like he might turn into a pro bowler, but G is not a high impact decision and I don't know how many extra wins AVT is going to lead to. Moore has looked good, but I think his stats are a little misleading as he has feasted in garbage time. The Carters look like good, solid players, but teams aren't game planning around them either. 

Saleh's decision to surround himself with first timers on his staff was a incredibly stupid idea given how young the roster was. This was immediately noticeable and I mentioned it before the season started. 

Look, sh!t happens sometimes. Darnold busted, but I can't criticize the decision to pick him at 3. He was the #1 QB on many boards and he crapped out. It happens. But Douglas is making so many decisions that I find immediately dubious that I have very little faith that he is going to execute this plan (which is sound in theory) well. 

I'm looking forward to this, lol.

I disagree with saying that JD is poor at executing his vision because IMO the vision started this season and I think you're underselling the first step toward executing that vision in the 21 draft.  IMO Sans you know who, the AVT-Carters-Moore is one of the better rookie classes I've seen from the Jets. 

Obviously, the win and loss total is laughing at me but again it wasnt just covid, it was also drafting for a lame duck Head Coach who had a totally different philosophy.  And as mentioned above, I was a Becton guy, so that's maybe why I'm a little more forgiving and hopeful about him coming around but he told you he was going to build an OL and when Fant was healthy, it is by far the best unit on the Football team.  If Becton becomes a starter, Hall a starter, that's 2 premium position hits in his first ever draft, whether they're probowlers or not, that's not a disaster.  Most years that would be considered a success.   Who knows what's up with Mims, but I wanted him too and I didnt hate Perine.  The odd thing about both of them, is we've seen that they can play.  Maybe not starters but they can play. Weird situations there and who knows maybe they step up with some departures.  Davis is trash, it happens.

I cant argue some of the decision making.  All rookies coaches/QB.  Not signing a veteran back up.  Etc. but again, I'm looking at from this perspective.  The combo of Saleh/JD drafted well.  They focused on offense and by all measures with competent QB it's good to very good in it's first season.  If they can do it again in 22, this team will get better and I dont think these guys are total bozos who cant get better at their jobs, despite some question decisions that overshadow some of the good decisions JD has made.

 

 

[maury77]

Just now, JiFapono said:

I'm looking forward to this, lol.

I disagree with saying that JD is poor at executing his vision because IMO the vision started this season and I think you're underselling the first step toward executing that vision in the 21 draft.  IMO Sans you know who, the AVT-Carters-Moore is one of the better rookie classes I've seen from the Jets. 

Fair, but better than other Jets classes isn't a high bar. I look at the Cowboys (who always pick way after the Jets) and it seems like they hit on almost all their first and second rounders lately. Why are the Jets passing on all of those same players? I know other teams are as well, but still. 

Obviously, the win and loss total is laughing at me but again it wasnt just covid, it was also drafting for a lame duck Head Coach who had a totally different philosophy.  And as mentioned above, I was a Becton guy, so that's maybe why I'm a little more forgiving and hopeful about him coming around but he told you he was going to build an OL and when Fant was healthy, it is by far the best unit on the Football team.  If Becton becomes a starter, Hall a starter, that's 2 premium position hits in his first ever draft, whether they're probowlers or not, that's not a disaster.  Most years that would be considered a success.   Who knows what's up with Mims, but I wanted him too and I didnt hate Perine.  The odd thing about both of them, is we've seen that they can play.  Maybe not starters but they can play. Weird situations there and who knows maybe they step up with some departures.  Davis is trash, it happens.

I cant argue some of the decision making.  All rookies coaches/QB.  Not signing a veteran back up.  Etc. but again, I'm looking at from this perspective.  The combo of Saleh/JD drafted well.  They focused on offense and by all measures with competent QB it's good to very good in it's first season.  If they can do it again in 22, this team will get better and I dont think these guys are total bozos who cant get better at their jobs, despite some question decisions that overshadow some of the good decisions JD has made.

Aside from AVT, can you name 1 guy on the team that looks like a future pro bowler? I can't. The guys you mentioned seem like they will be good, solid players (all good teams need lots of those) but where are the difference makers? I don't see them. 

 

 

 

[JustInFudge]

30 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I moved back East last year.  I was a season ticket holder in AZ.  I was there when Keim and Arians had a nice run, all the way to the NFC finals.  Arians left and Keim drafted Rosen, signed Bradford to start and hired Steve Wilks as their HC.  Steve Wilks blew away the owner and the GM who was a former GM of the year.  He was a leader of men.  A CEO type who would be instrumental in changing the culture.   They hired an experienced OC and put Rosen on the bench.  Bradford shat the bed from day 1.  Rosen got thrown into the fire and like Zach and Darnold was awful.  They end up with the first pick in the draft.  Dump the HC for an offensive HC who would put their rookie QB in position to succeed day 1.  

I'm not a huge fan of Murray or Kingsbury.  Kingsbury did something interesting with Murray.  He installed Murray's college O and terminology into the O from day 1 and has built on it since.   

Saleh was clearly hired because he's a motivator and CEO type.  As a long time Jets fans with rare exceptions the Jets have usually been successful with coaching staffs that top to bottom are coaches.  Guys who teach and aren't system guys.  Guys who see what kind of players they actually have and scheme based on who they have and what they are facing.   We had two great coaching staffs.  One in the early 60's and one when Parcells was here.  Not surprisingly we got results.

Mangini was probably the best coach and drafter we had and he was run out of town by the same ownership you expect to be patient while Douglas and Saleh graduate from diapers to tidy whity's and finally boxers.  I don't see it with Saleh.  Douglas at least has the pedigree but the longer he is in this building without the people he grew into his position with the worse he will be.  

FYI-Most of these guys fail.  Most of them don't execute well.  Right off the bat they sold us and themselves that Zach was a ready to start product.  Completely sh*t the bed on that one.  Now can they turn it around?  Maybe.  

They aren't going to survive unless they are better than the competition.  Getting better isn't the goal.  The Jets literally can't get worse.  They suck.  Getting better is a low bar.  They have to get better than the rest of the league and in particular the teams in our division.  

As an aside I think you bring a lot to the table.  You would do better making your argument than telling me I'm emotionally attached to my argument.  I see potential in JD.  I see a total fraud in Saleh and I've been watching NFL HC for a very long time.  It doesn't make me right but it also doesn't make me emotional.  

Lots I disagree with here but would kind of derail the conversation.  So I'll just comment on the bold.  

IMO it is unreasonable to expect Saleh/JD to be better than the rest of the league in their first season.  You have to take steps. The turnaround was never going to happen in 21 and they're not going to be better than the league in 22.  That's incredibly unrealistic.  What you hope to see is an injection of talent, which they accomplished in year 1 despite the record which did not matter.  And they have a chance to do it again with a ton of picks, FA money, players getting healthy and building off experience (including the coaching staff) for a year where yes, the record will matter but still nobody is expecting to compete for the AFC.  

Sorry for calling you emotional but I think it's because there is a disconnect on expectations.  Getting better is the goal IMO.  Crazy to expect to win the AFC so that's why I said that...just doenst seem logical at all but you're right, doesnt make my case stronger.

 

 

 

[JustInFudge]

24 minutes ago, maury77 said:

In the draft there are misses and there are misses. You and I have been on the same page with Willson since last year, I guess the difference is you are willing to give Douglas more of a pass over it. I felt it was such a bad decision from the start that it is going to be extraordinarily difficult for Douglas to make me a believer again. 

It's one of the many concerning decisions he's made.  It's crazy to me to think you'd put your career in his hands but if he can mitigate it, does it ultimately matter?  I guess that's the way I look at it.  I'm not convinced on Wilson but we've seen the offense work at a high level vs. good competition, so if they're able to have a plan b. and hypothetically get something for Wilson like they did with Darnold, I can forgive the decision.  Lots has to go right in that situation, but I guess I dont really care how we get there, just get there. You know? 

[Jetscode1]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

They’re all doomed. Douglas should cobble together whatever package he can to go after Watson or Russell or whoever he can get his hands on because the trajectory of this team is horrible. We can say all we want about how bad Maccagnan was, but neither Douglas nor Saleh have displayed much of a foundation of competence upon which to expand, particularly Saleh.

The regime is committed to building through the draft. I doubt he would consider trading for Watson or Wilson.  The comparable to Macc is an awful take.  That dude added little of value to the team.  JD has a lackluster draft (2020) and a solid draft (2021).  He also has accumulated more draft capital than anything we've seen around here in 20 years.  We need to see what 2022 brings us before we can say we're doomed.  

[JustInFudge]

 

13 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Fair, but better than other Jets classes isn't a high bar. I look at the Cowboys (who always pick way after the Jets) and it seems like they hit on almost all their first and second rounders lately. Why are the Jets passing on all of those same players? I know other teams are as well, but still. 

Aside from AVT, can you name 1 guy on the team that looks like a future pro bowler? I can't. The guys you mentioned seem like they will be good, solid players (all good teams need lots of those) but where are the difference makers? I don't see them. 

sh*t, if I could figure out why the Jets are the Jets.  lol

I dont expect probowlers with multiple picks in the same draft.  That rarely happens and they rarely come outside the first 2 rounds, but I could see Moore and Carter having probowl caliber seasons.  

 

[Biggs]

17 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Lots I disagree with here but would kind of derail the conversation.  So I'll just comment on the bold.  

IMO it is unreasonable to expect Saleh/JD to be better than the rest of the league in their first season.  You have to take steps. The turnaround was never going to happen in 21 and they're not going to be better than the league in 22.  That's incredibly unrealistic.  What you hope to see is an injection of talent, which they accomplished in year 1 despite the record which did not matter.  And they have a chance to do it again with a ton of picks, FA money, players getting healthy and building off experience (including the coaching staff) for a year where yes, the record will matter but still nobody is expecting to compete for the AFC.  

Sorry for calling you emotional but I think it's because there is a disconnect on expectations.  Getting better is the goal IMO.  Crazy to expect to win the AFC so that's why I said that...just doenst seem logical at all but you're right, doesnt make my case stronger.

 

 

 

There's a difference between winning the AFC east and getting better as compared to your competitors.  The NFL awards bad teams higher draft picks.  Bad teams usually have lower paid players and more cap space.  Bad teams with crappy rosters can improve more than good teams with good rosters on a comparative basis. I suspect since I'm probably older than you in 1 year on a comparative basis I will age less than you.  It's easier for a bad team to improve than a good team.  

Lets ignore the fact that a division rival picked a QB 13 spots lower than we did and he's thriving while ours is floundering.  On a competitive basis we aren't getting better compared to our competitors.  Getting better isn't the goal in a competiton.  It's getting better than your competitors.  

[Warfish]

44 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I disagree with saying that JD is poor at executing his vision because IMO the vision started this season

So what was the previous 1 1/2 years?  Just a Mulligan?

You're aware JD is almost 50% through his 6 year contract right now.

At what point should we fans expect competence on the field from the team JD has built?  

Will we have a decent kicker, at least, next year?  It's only taken what, 20 guys so far, lol?

Quote

IMO Sans you know who, the AVT-Carters-Moore is one of the better rookie classes I've seen from the Jets.

Just keep in mind, many were saying this exact same thing about Mims and Becton at this point last year.

Things can, and sadly do, change quick in the NFL.  I like all three guys and I still like Becton despite him not being my choice at that pick, but it's too early to judge these picks as hits just yet. 

Although I get this fanbase loves to declare guys great after two games, but say "too early to judge" for four years if they play poorly, lol.

I think 2022 is a vital year for the JD/Saleh regime.  I do not think a 3-5 win season will suffice, no matter how many "be patient" or excuses people may want to raise.  In Douglas's fourth year as GM, results > hot air about plans and fans not having seen plans before.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, varjet said:

Good points above.  I will add:

• If the Jets look as bad next year as this year, in terms of QB play (JD's pick) and defense (Saleh's expertise), I think the Johnsons panic push the eject button.  JD will have had enough time to create a roster that can win at least 6-7 games in a 17 win season.
• I don't think you can give JD a mulligan on his Covid 2020 drafting.  Supposedly he interviewed Becton's HS coaches.  He did his work on Becton.  We fans read articles.  We fans knew that Wirfs had his act more together.  JD needs to upgrade the people he has scouting-somebody's head has to roll.  In 2020 JD went for WR and LT and in 2022 they need to look for the same thing.  2022 was lots of depth on the back-end, which generally worked out, although I am feeling now that the Sherwood/Hamsah picks may bust. 
• But this Jags-Jets game is a bigger trap than we think.  It could be JD's Toilet Bowl.  If the Jets get blown out, I would not fall off my chair if the Johnsons panic. 

Becton over Wirfs, Becton when healthy isn’t a reason to bitch.  We needed a LT.  

The Johnson’s have never panicked and fired a CS and a GM all at once.  And they’re on board with paying their GM for 6 years for a reason.  And to make it worse they’ll panic and fire the entire HC because of the QB and D?  That ain’t happening.

 Have to laugh, you think If we lose a game they’re going to fire JD?  lol

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Last season is not the norm. We got a lot of rookie starters because there was literally nobody  on the team they had to compete with because the team was gutted. What I am saying is after round 3, you are not looking at a guy you can likely pencil in as a starter, you are looking at rotational guys at best, more likely depth. That is a normal draft where a team has established starters at most positions. All of these players in our secondary including Michael Carter who has played well are competing  for nickel and dime spots on at probably 70% of other teams. Some probably  are not playing at all. This team gave them an opportunity  because we had no corners and then both S got injured. We just had a lot of open positions. 

Yes, guys who will be backups, who normally are drafted as depth players are starting because JD gutted the roster.  I said that.  That was The plan.  They’ll gain the experience to start if they’re talented enough, as in Hall and Carter II out at least enough playing time to be counted in as depth it’s not

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Matt39 said:

The practice intensity level is obvious in the games. This is a team that doesnt tackle well. That's all repetition and practice. Watch how the Patriots tackle. Literally every minute detail in football practice matters. Jets fans seem to think nothing matters, but tackling, intense practices, etc all culminate in a competitive winning team. Jets training camp practices ran 2 hours max. Just insane. The Jets arent bad because of bad luck. The Patriots arent good because of good luck. The excuse making is obnoxious at this point.

The practice intensity is not reflected in game, the Jets play hard.  They’re young toaster, players sprinkled all through the roster just aren’t good.  The Jets practiced to the allowed days with pads. You’re bringing up the Pats?  A 12 win team that’s too a step back last year because of COVID opt outs and Cam sucking?  
Funny none of this was an issue with SF and their defensive player.

There isn’t an excuse here.  The obnoxious part of this is the constant bitching and excuses you keep coming up with to try and explain why they’re not a top team that you’ve decided to compare them to.  Instead of the simple fact that their roster contains less talent.   That’s incredibly obnoxious.  

[More Cowbell]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yes, guys who will be backups, who normally are drafted as depth players are starting because JD gutted the roster.  I said that.  That was The plan.  They’ll gain the experience to start if they’re talented enough, as in Hall and Carter II out at least enough playing time to be counted in as depth it’s not

Ok, agreed. I read it as you were saying he would pull another draft where practically every player starts and if they don't  they become depth. Most day 3 guys are pure crap shoots. 

[Barton]

5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

And you get this how exactly?  If a play doesnt work it because hes dumb? 

 

Because the Jets get outplayed quarters 1-2, never make half-time adjustments and then get ouplayed quarters 3-4.

[Barton]

Know whats sad? Mike Westhoff never got a head coaching chance with the Jets.

I would hire him to be the head coach in a nanosecond. At the very least, a prominent front office role where he's a figurehead type. 

[JustInFudge]

37 minutes ago, Biggs said:

There's a difference between winning the AFC east and getting better as compared to your competitors.  The NFL awards bad teams higher draft picks.  Bad teams usually have lower paid players and more cap space.  Bad teams with crappy rosters can improve more than good teams with good rosters on a comparative basis. I suspect since I'm probably older than you in 1 year on a comparative basis I will age less than you.  It's easier for a bad team to improve than a good team.  

Lets ignore the fact that a division rival picked a QB 13 spots lower than we did and he's thriving while ours is floundering.  On a competitive basis we aren't getting better compared to our competitors.  Getting better isn't the goal in a competiton.  It's getting better than your competitors.  

I'm sorry, I dont really understand the point of this conversation anymore.  I'm quite aware the goal is to be better than everyone else. We just clearly have different expectations on when that is a realistic possibility. Getting better is getting better and in order to get better than everyone else, well, you have to get better first.  I think they can.  If you think they cant, cool but nothing else you're saying matters. 

[Jet Nut]

17 minutes ago, Barton said:

Because the Jets get outplayed quarters 1-2, never make half-time adjustments and then get ouplayed quarters 3-4.

The Jets outplayed the Panthers, the Titans, the Bengals, the Texans and the Colts in the second half of games so how does that prove out?

[JustInFudge]

41 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So what was the previous 1 1/2 years?  Just a Mulligan?

You're aware JD is almost 50% through his 6 year contract right now.

At what point should we fans expect competence on the field from the team JD has built?  

Will we have a decent kicker, at least, next year?  It's only taken what, 20 guys so far, lol?

Just keep in mind, many were saying this exact same thing about Mims and Becton at this point last year.

Things can, and sadly do, change quick in the NFL.  I like all three guys and I still like Becton despite him not being my choice at that pick, but it's too early to judge these picks as hits just yet. 

Although I get this fanbase loves to declare guys great after two games, but say "too early to judge" for four years if they play poorly, lol.

I think 2022 is a vital year for the JD/Saleh regime.  I do not think a 3-5 win season will suffice, no matter how many "be patient" or excuses people may want to raise.  In Douglas's fourth year as GM, results > hot air about plans and fans not having seen plans before.

Yes. Yes. 2023.  We have one.

I do not recall anyone saying that the 2020 draft class was one of the best rookie classes we've ever had, quite the opposite in fact.  And I'm cautiously optimistic a few will come around. 

2022 is everything, if they **** it up, they will be on the hot seat, no doubt and 2023 will turn into 2024 and the wheel continues.  That said, they might not be probowlers but I think they have a pretty sound young foundation that gained valuable experience and if they're able to successfully add around them and up the caliber of talent with 2 top 10 picks, I think this team could take a big jump in 22 and set themselves up to compete at for the division in 23.  It's going to take executing, a QB and Saleh being legit but I think it can be done.  I'm not ready to write anyone off yet, except Ashtyn Davis.  He's hot garbage!

 

[Warfish]

Can’t really reply the way I’d like Jif as I’m stuck on a phone only but appreciate the reply.

I’ll be honest, the “2023” answer sucks. The fan base, at least in part, already writing off 2022 before 2021 is over, sucks. 

I appreciate my feeling that way makes no difference. It is what it is. we’re a permanently moribund franchise worthy of relegation and little else.5 years to maybe get to competence. Amazing.

 

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Can’t really reply the way I’d like Jif as I’m stuck on a phone only but appreciate the reply.

I’ll be honest, the “2023” answer sucks. The fan base, at least in part, already writing off 2022 before 2021 is over, sucks. 

I appreciate my feeling that way makes no difference. It is what it is. we’re a permanently moribund franchise worthy of relegation and little else.

 

I'm writing of 22 season in the sense that we're not competing for the AFC. I think they'll be better, how much?  Depends on a lot, but mostly, the QB.  I think they should be sniffing the wildcard though.

 

 

[Lith]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Can’t really reply the way I’d like Jif as I’m stuck on a phone only but appreciate the reply.

I’ll be honest, the “2023” answer sucks. The fan base, at least in part, already writing off 2022 before 2021 is over, sucks. 

I appreciate my feeling that way makes no difference. It is what it is. we’re a permanently moribund franchise worthy of relegation and little else.5 years to maybe get to competence. Amazing.

 

What makes it all the more frustrating is that I really thought we had gotten it right this time.  Douglas was one of the most sought after and respected personnel men in the game.  Saleh was, by most accounts, one of the top 2 available coaching candidates.  I was not as big a Wilson fan run up to the draft as others, but I bought in after we drafted him. 

I thought we had finally turned a corner this past offseason.  But it hasn't exactly worked out.  And here we are, in December of another lost season.  As others think about playoff possibilities, we are left to wonder, yet again, if we have the right QB, HC and GM and how many more years we need to be competitive.  It sucks, but that is where we are at -- same place we have been for the last decade.

[#27TheDominator]

I am not writing these guys off, but IMO the 2023 answer is bullsh*t.  They suck now and have a reason for sucking.  Being this bad next year?  I'm off the bandwagon and I was one of the main proponents of patience during this cluster****.  It is not that hard to overhaul a roster. This one has been overhauled.  This is the ground floor.  If the elevator doesn't go up next year we are ****ed.  I don't think we are.  We don't have to be true title contenders next year, but these Dolphin =Steeler-Brown level playoff contenders?  Be one or get lost.

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am not writing these guys off, but IMO the 2023 answer is bullsh*t.  They suck now and have a reason for sucking.  Being this bad next year?  I'm off the bandwagon and I was one of the main proponents of patience during this cluster****.  It is not that hard to overhaul a roster. This one has been overhauled.  This is the ground floor.  If the elevator doesn't go up next year we are ****ed.  I don't think we are.  We don't have to be true title contenders next year, but these Dolphin =Steeler-Brown level playoff contenders?  Be one or get lost.

How much patience should be given towards a defense who doesn't tackle?

[rtnelson]

We all knew the defense would be bad when we cut the experience in our defensive backfield in favor of young players and rookies.  Then it got even worse as more of our experience went down with injury.  While it's terrible to watch, it's really no wonder why this has been happening.

If we are in the same position next year it's truly time to hit the panic button.  It's fine to be worried, but the conclusions on this regime are a year away. 

[slats]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

Massive loss of Cred.  Is that like 2 thumbs down or 3?  

First draft D'Brick, Mangold, Brad Smith and Leon Washington along with a backup QB who had an 11 year NFL career.  He also took a NY Jets team that went 4 and 12 to the playoffs as a rookie HC.   By any metric his first year as a HC blows Saleh away.  He's first draft blows Douglas away.   

Lost in the wild card round and then went 4-12 in his second season. Only had success in his last year because Brett Favre refused to listen to Schotty, but then his arm fell off and the team sucked again. And, as a bonus, he drafted Vernon Gholston, who all Mangini-ites tend to forget. 
 
There’s a reason he’s long gone from the league. He sucked. 

[Biggs]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

Lost in the wild card round and then went 4-12 in his second season. Only had success in his last year because Brett Favre refused to listen to Schotty, but then his arm fell off and the team sucked again. And, as a bonus, he drafted Vernon Gholston, who all Mangini-ites tend to forget. 
 
There’s a reason he’s long gone from the league. He sucked. 

Drafted 4 corner stone players in his first 2 years.  Lost his starting QB after 8 games in year 2.  Had the team in position for a first round bye in year 3 before Favre blew out his arm. 

D Brick, Mangold, Revis and Harris along with a few other nice draft picks in 3 years.  Based on the NY Jets that's top notch.   There are plenty of guys who did less who get recyled around the NFL.   He had the bad fortune of ratting out BB and Kraft, NFL royalty.  They burnt the tapes and the guys out of the league.   Mangini did a nice job here.  Not great but on a comparative basis better than average.  

Bringing up Gholston is fair.  He also drafted Revis.  Greatest player in Jets history.  

[slats]

15 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Drafted 4 corner stone players in his first 2 years.  Lost his starting QB after 8 games in year 2.  Had the team in position for a first round bye in year 3 before Favre blew out his arm. 

D Brick, Mangold, Revis and Harris along with a few other nice draft picks in 3 years.  Based on the NY Jets that's top notch.   There are plenty of guys who did less who get recyled around the NFL.   He had the bad fortune of ratting out BB and Kraft, NFL royalty.  They burnt the tapes and the guys out of the league.   Mangini did a nice job here.  Not great but on a comparative basis better than average.  

Bringing up Gholston is fair.  He also drafted Revis.  Greatest player in Jets history.  

Why has no NFL team invested in the genius, then? Seriously, he just was not good. 

[Biggs]

8 minutes ago, slats said:

Why has no NFL team invested in the genius, then? Seriously, he just was not good. 

He was blackballed for outing BB.   When the league burnt the tapes the message was sent that BB and Kraft were untouchable.  BB hates him and his former staffers are all over the league.  The Commissioner is practically Krafts sock puppet.   

[slats]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

He was blackballed for outing BB.   When the league burnt the tapes the message was sent that BB and Kraft were untouchable.  BB hates him and his former staffers are all over the league.  The Commissioner is practically Krafts sock puppet.   

Straight up, IMHO, that’s bull****. If the guy was as good as this weird minority of Jet fans believe, there’d be an owner excited to invest. The truth is that he’s toxic. No one wants him because whatever he brings to the table isn’t worth the chaos. 

[Biggs]

43 minutes ago, slats said:

Straight up, IMHO, that’s bull****. If the guy was as good as this weird minority of Jet fans believe, there’d be an owner excited to invest. The truth is that he’s toxic. No one wants him because whatever he brings to the table isn’t worth the chaos. 

The owners are a small club that depend on each other for revenue.  They don't break out from each other.  They are partners and take care of each other.  Crap on one and you crap on all of them.  Half the teams in the league have BB coaching tree in their organizations.  The NFL is  a breeding ground based on the rules of incest.  The gene pool is limited and the results reflect it.  

[Matt39]

I mean you can’t deny that this teams best success in the draft came while a Mangini was here. We stink at the draft now.

[#27TheDominator]

I love how Brad Smith is now considered a great draft pick.  The guy had less receiving yards his first 2 seasons than Denzel Mims.  That included his best receiving year.  Solid guy, interesting weapon, less than half the career receiving yards of Johnny Mitchell.  Bring back Mangini!  He can find receivers that have as many as 325 yards in a season!

[#27TheDominator]

Hey @T0mShane Bill Parcells was fat!

[T0mShane]

16 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The owners are a small club that depend on each other for revenue.  They don't break out from each other.  They are partners and take care of each other.  Crap on one and you crap on all of them.  Half the teams in the league have BB coaching tree in their organizations.  The NFL is  a breeding ground based on the rules of incest.  The gene pool is limited and the results reflect it.  

Rex Ryan apologists have to slime Mangini in order to prop up the myth that Rex was a transformational figure in Jets history. If they had to confront the truth about him—that he inherited a roster full of high-character professionals ready to compete at the highest levels—all you’re left with is the fact that Rex tanked that ready-made roster within the span of two years. They also can’t explain why Rex hasn’t been so much as interviewed for a coaching job since he was launched out of Buffalo via catapult after two seasons 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Hey @T0mShane Bill Parcells was fat!

Many geniuses are overweight, pal. Ben Franklin, for instance.