Do Jets have the right people in charge?

T0mShane · December 22, 2021

5 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

The regime is committed to building through the draft. I doubt he would consider trading for Watson or Wilson. The comparable to Macc is an awful take. That dude added little of value to the team. JD has a lackluster draft (2020) and a solid draft (2021). He also has accumulated more draft capital than anything we've seen around here in 20 years. We need to see what 2022 brings us before we can say we're doomed.

So, I wasn’t comparing Maccagnan to Douglas, because Maccagnan was the worst GM in the history of sports. I was saying that Douglas has, indeed, inherited a brutal situation from Maccagnan and he’s doing his best, but he’s made a pack of questionable decisions of his own and that “But Maccagnan” excuse is gonna wear pretty thin very soon.

RE: Watson, I think Saleh is a bad head coach, Douglas is probably a middling GM, and if they continue down the path they’re on, they’ll both be fired within two years. Going out at this stage and using their accumulated resources to nab an established star QB will mask their many fatal issues and give them some breathing room while they learn on the job(s).

#27TheDominator · December 22, 2021

27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Many geniuses are overweight, pal. Ben Franklin, for instance.

Ben Franklin was smart enough to wear a vest to hide his belly. Parcells went with a belt to accentuate it!

Barton · December 22, 2021

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

The Jets outplayed the Panthers, the Titans, the Bengals, the Texans and the Colts in the second half of games so how does that prove out?

Christ man, are you watching the Jets this season? They effing suck.

AZSOJ · December 22, 2021

On 12/21/2021 at 1:17 PM, Matt39 said:

It takes a good draft and some competent coaches to make it better. The Jets leading the league in guys in the trainers room isnt going to turn this around either. Where has Joe Douglas been anyways?

Key word CS COMPTENCE, as presently constituted, they are failing. The examples they gave in the article is exactly, why there is a very good chance this HC/CS will fail.

SomebodytoAnybody47 · December 22, 2021

On 12/21/2021 at 3:04 PM, Irish Jet said:

Absolutely no ******* NFL franchise takes 5 years to turn around.

What are we doing here? What are we actually suggesting? That Douglas gets another two years of league worst type performances before we can evaluate him?

This fanbase is trash. Cultists.

The really really bad ones do.

AZSOJ · December 22, 2021

21 hours ago, T0mShane said:

It’s really come into stark focus this week, imo. Teams are out there competing their asses off with entire position groups on the Covid list and Jets fans are giving a pass to Saleh week after week when his vaunted defensive scheme is making backup running backs look like Walter Payton even though he has highly-rated DT’s and an $18 million dollar former All-Pro ILB on his defense. The team isn’t competitive, it isn’t smart, and it isn’t fun. Player who showed promise under the execrable Adam Gase have absolutely packed it in under Saleh. He hired his inexperienced and clearly overmatched pals as coordinators. It’s really hard to pick out one thing he does well. Teach? No. Motivate? lol. Inspire? **** no. Strategize? Clearly no. He was overrated as a DC (thanks to a vicious running game in San Fran) and he’s been exposed as a fraud here, Honestly, if I’m Joe Douglas, I have to think about firing this dude before he costs me my career, and even then it’s probably too late.

I couldn't agree more ... As we have seen, and the article points out, they haven't coached up the players and rather than adjust the schemes to fit the players skills, these fools continue to develop losing game plans based on their schemes which are failing. We don't need a cheerleader we need discipline and focus...something these guys seem to have little knowledge of.

doitny · December 23, 2021

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Ben Franklin was smart enough to wear a vest to hide his belly. Parcells went with a belt to accentuate it!

damm Bill thats looks painful

Dunnie · December 23, 2021

Jets fire Saleh .. the rebuilt begins once again and JDs clock resets ...

... Saleh is here for at least 2 more seasons.

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JustInFudge · December 23, 2021

17 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am not writing these guys off, but IMO the 2023 answer is bullsh*t. They suck now and have a reason for sucking. Being this bad next year? I'm off the bandwagon and I was one of the main proponents of patience during this cluster****. It is not that hard to overhaul a roster. This one has been overhauled. This is the ground floor. If the elevator doesn't go up next year we are ****ed. I don't think we are. We don't have to be true title contenders next year, but these Dolphin =Steeler-Brown level playoff contenders? Be one or get lost.

Well, fwiw, not sure if this was directed at folks like me but I've marked the 2023 season the year they should be competing for the division/hopefully the AFC. Not the year they finally, dont suck. IMO, they would have double the win total this year, with competent QB play. If they find that somehow, someway next season (Zach taking a huge leap forward or finding a veteran starter), then I think you're looking at around a .500 Football team and that is the type of growth one should expect from the youngest team in the league. Nobody goes worst to first in the NFL, you have to make incremental improvement first.

Jet Nut · December 23, 2021

13 hours ago, Barton said:

Christ man, are you watching the Jets this season? They effing suck.

Of course they suck, we all can see that.

What does that have to do with making changes at the half and that they outplayed the Panthers, the Titans, the Bengals, the Texans and the Colts in the second half of games.

#27TheDominator · December 23, 2021

56 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Well, fwiw, not sure if this was directed at folks like me but I've marked the 2023 season the year they should be competing for the division/hopefully the AFC. Not the year they finally, dont suck. IMO, they would have double the win total this year, with competent QB play. If they find that somehow, someway next season (Zach taking a huge leap forward or finding a veteran starter), then I think you're looking at around a .500 Football team and that is the type of growth one should expect from the youngest team in the league. Nobody goes worst to first in the NFL, you have to make incremental improvement first.

I don't know who it was directed at. I have just started hearing that 2023 is the year, During the offseason it was "Wait until 2022!" Pushing the deadline back is what we have been doing for a decade. IF they look this sh*tty next season? **** that. I think we are on the same page with expectations. Don't suck/be .500 +/- next year. By 2023 they really should be a true contender.

The problem is that so many things have to break right and not go wrong to be true contender. Hell, many of them are hovering around .500 now. Buffalo is considered a powerhouse and they are 8-6. The Vikings are 7-7 and if it ended now they'd be in the postseason. I am not so sure that you can't "go from worst to first" but I think what you are talking about is if the idea that you can be a mid-tier team that got hammered with injuries and then roll back the next year near the top (SF?) but the Lions are not scaring anyone in 2022.

I am not really sure I am making this point coherently. Kind of sure I'm not. What I am saying is that they had damned well better be a cohesive team next year and not constantly get rolled. More like the Broncos and less like the Lions. It is tough to judge because there is so much parity and so many matchup issues in the NFL that week to week teams can look like contenders for the super bowl or #1 overall pick from week to week. The board swings with every game and sometimes series or play and it makes it even worse.

Irish Jet · December 23, 2021

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't know who it was directed at. I have just started hearing that 2023 is the year, During the offseason it was "Wait until 2022!" Pushing the deadline back is what we have been doing for a decade. IF they look this sh*tty next season? **** that. I think we are on the same page with expectations. Don't suck/be .500 +/- next year. By 2023 they really should be a true contender.

The problem is that so many things have to break right and not go wrong to be true contender. Hell, many of them are hovering around .500 now. Buffalo is considered a powerhouse and they are 8-6. The Vikings are 7-7 and if it ended now they'd be in the postseason. I am not so sure that you can't "go from worst to first" but I think what you are talking about is if the idea that you can be a mid-tier team that got hammered with injuries and then roll back the next year near the top (SF?) but the Lions are not scaring anyone in 2022.

I am not really sure I am making this point coherently. Kind of sure I'm not. What I am saying is that they had damned well better be a cohesive team next year and not constantly get rolled. More like the Broncos and less like the Lions. It is tough to judge because there is so much parity and so many matchup issues in the NFL that week to week teams can look like contenders for the super bowl or #1 overall pick from week to week. The board swings with every game and sometimes series or play and it makes it even worse.

The Vikings are actually good. They compete with everyone but they win close and lose close.

We're less competitive than any team in the league. We have the worst points differential (again) and unlike Houston and Jacksonville we tend to get killed early whereas they at least make a game of it for a few quarters. It's as bad as it could really be at this stage.

It is hilarious that people play the "What were you expecting" line. And I'm fully expecting I'll hear it from the same people next year. I don't think anyone expected this team to be in the playoffs but to be an uncompetitive bottom feeder again is just unacceptable. Progress was all I wanted and it isn't there. It seems the main difference between this year and last year is this year we get to play the Jags and Texans.

#27TheDominator · December 23, 2021

24 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

The Vikings are actually good. They compete with everyone but they win close and lose close.

We're less competitive than any team in the league. We have the worst points differential (again) and unlike Houston and Jacksonville we tend to get killed early whereas they at least make a game of it for a few quarters. It's as bad as it could really be at this stage.

It is hilarious that people play the "What were you expecting" line. And I'm fully expecting I'll hear it from the same people next year. I don't think anyone expected this team to be in the playoffs but to be an uncompetitive bottom feeder again is just unacceptable. Progress was all I wanted and it isn't there. It seems the main difference between this year and last year is this year we get to play the Jags and Texans.

A lot I agree with and much I don't. The Vikings are a good team? Maybe they are, but they lost to the Lions. That is kind of my point. Even "good teams" are not the '85 Bears. Personally, I do play the "What were you expecting?" game because, well.. what were you expecting? We knew they wouldn't be great. The question is why are they so bad? On O it seems to be coming around and they are probably competent (not good, just mildly competent) QB play from competing. On D they don't seem to have the horses and will need some upgrades, but despite their getting smacked around, I think some improvement at one or two spots elevates the whole team exponentially. Or whatever.

I kind of don't mind the beatings since they are doing things their way and taking their lumps, presumably to look forward to next year. That is what I am not looking for trying all the different options on D. This whole season has seemed like exhibition games to install the system. Is that the right thing to do? I doubt it, but if it doesn't pay dividends next year I will have my pitchfork out too.

Irish Jet · December 23, 2021

12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

A lot I agree with and much I don't. The Vikings are a good team? Maybe they are, but they lost to the Lions. That is kind of my point. Even "good teams" are not the '85 Bears. Personally, I do play the "What were you expecting?" game because, well.. what were you expecting? We knew they wouldn't be great. The question is why are they so bad? On O it seems to be coming around and they are probably competent (not good, just mildly competent) QB play from competing. On D they don't seem to have the horses and will need some upgrades, but despite their getting smacked around, I think some improvement at one or two spots elevates the whole team exponentially. Or whatever.

I kind of don't mind the beatings since they are doing things their way and taking their lumps, presumably to look forward to next year. That is what I am not looking for trying all the different options on D. This whole season has seemed like exhibition games to install the system. Is that the right thing to do? I doubt it, but if it doesn't pay dividends next year I will have my pitchfork out too.

Even the Lions are better than they look. They've been competitive a lot and have a higher point differential than Atlanta with 6 wins. There have been bad teams in the league but there are three below all else by some distance. The Jets, the Jags and the Texans.

The Vikings haven't lost by more than one score this season which you just don't do if you're not a decent side. They have issues closing games out, especially on defence. They absolutely ran the Steelers off the field a week or so ago but just have a tendency to collapse. They at least have the talent of a good team. We are a million miles from that.

I was expecting not to be bottom of the points differential two years in a row. That's really not a lot to ask. I was expecting Zach not to look like a god damn high schooler and with Rankins and Mosley coming in I expected the front 7 to improve, not get drastically worse. Next year will be telling but I think anyone expecting a competitive side is living in a dream world. There are too many holes and the moves we've made under this GM can't exactly inspire confidence that he'll use the resources correctly. It's also impossible to project any good QB play until we sign someone else. Hopefully I'm wrong.

#27TheDominator · December 23, 2021

Somewhere a Falcons fan is saying sure the Jets suck and we beat them, but they beat two playoff teams! I think a bunch of this is what have you done for me lately. The Lions have won 2 our of 3, but before that they were 0-10-1 with the tie against the Mason Rudolph Steelers. I get hating the point differential, but who really cares? You win or you lose. These guys do keep trying in games that are 2+ scores down and it costs them points differential. For years we have had coaches that take the close loss. **** that. I didn't say they were as good as the Vikings, but that is about where they should be next season. I don't expect them to be the Chiefs.

I am not too sure about Douglas, but you have to admit that the players that he got in 2021 seem much better than 2020. Whether that is Saleh's influence or the development or just time on the job at least that seems to be pointing up. I guess we will see in May

Fantasy Island · December 23, 2021

On 12/21/2021 at 3:17 PM, Matt39 said:

It takes a good draft and some competent coaches to make it better. The Jets leading the league in guys in the trainers room isnt going to turn this around either. Where has Joe Douglas been anyways?

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Spoot-Face · December 23, 2021

On 12/21/2021 at 5:47 PM, Matt39 said:

It’s not that deep. Football players play. Guys who want to be in the trainers room don’t.

Anton Lubchenko

Now that's a real football player

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Barton · December 23, 2021

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Of course they suck, we all can see that.

What does that have to do with making changes at the half and that they outplayed the Panthers, the Titans, the Bengals, the Texans and the Colts in the second half of games.

Dude, they lost to the Panthers and they got humiliated by the Colts. Colts were laughing at the Jets by the middle of the 2nd quarter.

Titans and Bengals. Nice wins, really. And blind squirrels also find nuts.

Irish Jet · December 23, 2021

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Somewhere a Falcons fan is saying sure the Jets suck and we beat them, but they beat two playoff teams! I think a bunch of this is what have you done for me lately. The Lions have won 2 our of 3, but before that they were 0-10-1 with the tie against the Mason Rudolph Steelers. I get hating the point differential, but who really cares? You win or you lose. These guys do keep trying in games that are 2+ scores down and it costs them points differential. For years we have had coaches that take the close loss. **** that. I didn't say they were as good as the Vikings, but that is about where they should be next season. I don't expect them to be the Chiefs.

I am not too sure about Douglas, but you have to admit that the players that he got in 2021 seem much better than 2020. Whether that is Saleh's influence or the development or just time on the job at least that seems to be pointing up. I guess we will see in May

Points differential and further analytics are precisely why the Lions upset of the Cardinals wasn't as insane as some thought. It was an underachieving bad team against an overachieving good one. It's how you new the Patriots were still a force when they were 2-4. It's how everyone knew the 11-0 Steelers were a paper tiger in 2020. Wins a losses tell you a lot but not all wins or losses are equal.

99% of possessions in football are about scoring points and preventing them. The Jets are the worst in the league at that for the second consecutive year. Yes situations will alter it but if you look at the analytics the Jets have benefitted from garbage time more than most. Were the Carolina, Atlanta or Indianapolis games as close as they look? Those teams dominated us for most of the game.

No team is as bad early in the game as the Jets. No one is celebrating close losses but it would be nice to have a reason to watch the second half in most games. I don't think it's asking much to want more than that at this stage of the Douglas project. As for the players seeming better - Well obviously - Look at what he's invested in the OL and at WR. It's not whether those positions got better but whether they got better relative to the cost. The biggest resource he had, the one we've invested everything in is the QB and without turning this into another Zach debate it couldn't really look much worse at this stage.

I get that people want to find positives but I think the standards have to be higher. The so called improvement from 2020 is a lot less stark than the decline from 2019 and that's the starting point for this regime.

varjet · December 23, 2021

The Vikings have drafted really well but have never been able to draft the QB, so they are just good enough to not win enough games to draft early. The made the deal with the devil Cousins to pay lower starter QB money for a low-end starter QB who is unlikely to make or win in the playoffs.

At some point the Vikings should cut the cord with Cousins and try and find a better QB somehow. That could require spending more draft picks on QBs to try and find lightning in the bottle. That will p$$$ off Cousins and lead to an ultimate rebuild. But I think they stay the course and provide their fans with reasonable entertainment.

#27TheDominator · December 23, 2021

56 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

No team is as bad early in the game as the Jets. No one is celebrating close losses but it would be nice to have a reason to watch the second half in most games.

I get what you are saying and don't really argue. I certainly haven't studied any analytics in 2021. I do think the part above is why I don't understand all the bitching and moaning after last week. They played the Dolphins very well early. The funniest part is people complaining about the lack of adjustments like these guys have been blowing leads. I agree completely about the garbage time success. The one thing I find reassuring is that they were just as badly outplayed in the Titans game, but they managed to hold them to FGs and actually ended up winning.

Jet Nut · December 23, 2021

2 hours ago, Barton said:

Dude, they lost to the Panthers and they got humiliated by the Colts. Colts were laughing at the Jets by the middle of the 2nd quarter.

Titans and Bengals. Nice wins, really. And blind squirrels also find nuts.

What does losing have to do with turning a big deficit in the Panther game into a one score game in the second half? How does that lead you to claiming there are no half time adjustments.

Its a really easy way to argue a point when you say something never happens and when shown evidence that it has and the comeback is "and blind squirrels also find nuts".

Barton · December 23, 2021

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

What does losing have to do with turning a big deficit in the Panther game into a one score game in the second half? How does that lead you to claiming there are no half time adjustments.

Its a really easy way to argue a point when you say something never happens and when shown evidence that it has and the comeback is "and blind squirrels also find nuts".

Cool, Jets have played well in 9 quarters of football this year.

Spoot-Face · December 24, 2021

On 12/22/2021 at 10:17 AM, kmnj said:

-it starts with terrible ownership-the jets have that without question and that wont change.

the jets have a terrible gm and a terrible coach is indicated by actual results on the field shown by their record .

Joe may be worst the gm we have had-he was handed an average team and made them terrible-his number one last year is a bust , his number two last year was a bust-his entire first draft was a bust-this year he drafted a worse version of geno smith at the top of the draft and hired a coach that is supposed to be a defensive guy and our defense is beyond awful

new does not mean -good

having a plan does not mean you can execute it

the only thing Joe has done well is drafting moore and getting rid of players for great draft capital

Parcells was handed a 1-15 team and got us to the AFC championship in the same period that Joe has us at the bottom of the league

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CanadaSteve · December 24, 2021

On 12/21/2021 at 2:50 PM, Saul Goodman said:

Douglas blew the 2020 draft, and his handpicked quarterback, taken with the highest draft pick we’ve had in decades, looks atrocious. It won’t happen but we would lose nothing by replacing him. There are no signs, no data, no facts that indicate that he can build this franchise into a winning one.

Saleh is pretty awful as well.

Yeah, firing another GM after two years and another coach after one year would have THE BEST lining up as replacements.

This narrative is o-l-d.

Hal N of Provo · December 24, 2021

6 wins, more competitive games, and another good draft class would be great for next season.

The cupboard was bare.

These are the same calls for immediate improvement that has tanked Jets teams of old.

UnknownJetFan · December 25, 2021

On 12/21/2021 at 2:50 PM, Saul Goodman said:

Douglas blew the 2020 draft, and his handpicked quarterback, taken with the highest draft pick we’ve had in decades, looks atrocious. It won’t happen but we would lose nothing by replacing him. There are no signs, no data, no facts that indicate that he can build this franchise into a winning one.

Saleh is pretty awful as well.

Remember, there are no GM Polians, or HCs Parcells, and current top GMs or HCs like Reid are on other teams. Anybody they would get may be no better than JD and Saleh so giving them more time to develop is the prudent thing to do right now.

Jet Nut · December 25, 2021

On 12/22/2021 at 3:52 PM, Biggs said:

Drafted 4 corner stone players in his first 2 years. Lost his starting QB after 8 games in year 2. Had the team in position for a first round bye in year 3 before Favre blew out his arm.

D Brick, Mangold, Revis and Harris along with a few other nice draft picks in 3 years. Based on the NY Jets that's top notch. There are plenty of guys who did less who get recyled around the NFL. He had the bad fortune of ratting out BB and Kraft, NFL royalty. They burnt the tapes and the guys out of the league. Mangini did a nice job here. Not great but on a comparative basis better than average.

Bringing up Gholston is fair. He also drafted Revis. Greatest player in Jets history.

Why is it that Mangini gets all the credit that there possibly be buy his fans for drafting all the talent on the roster but none of the blame for those who miss like a Gholston? With JD all the picks we hate are on the him as the GM. Not with Mangini, Tanny wasnt even in the building to hear the story retold today. Point is how do we know who was a Tanny pick, as they all are in actuality and who was lets say influenced bye the HC? If they were all the Mangenious, you would think he would have followed up his stint(s) as a failed HC as a FO personnel guy.

Spoot-Face · December 25, 2021

On 12/22/2021 at 5:32 PM, T0mShane said:

Many geniuses are overweight, pal. Ben Franklin, for instance.

Don't forget @The Crusher

maury77 · December 25, 2021

On 12/24/2021 at 2:40 PM, Hal N of Provo said:

6 wins, more competitive games, and another good draft class would be great for next season.

The cupboard was bare.

These are the same calls for immediate improvement that has tanked Jets teams of old.

The Jets need to be .500 next season. I don’t think that’s a big ask given how many draft and free agent classes Douglas would have by then.

Larz · December 25, 2021

Doesn’t matter until they figure out the injury problem

or the curse lol

Warfish · December 26, 2021

On 12/21/2021 at 1:04 PM, Irish Jet said:

Absolutely no ******* NFL franchise takes 5 years to turn around.

My view as well. Moving a team from the very bottom to competence (ie just being a middle of the pack team) is a two year exercise. It does not need five years if you’re doing it right, have the right coaches and draft/sign the right guys.

The point here is the JD is being given a near 100% mulligan for everything pre-2021 by many fans, as if he had no control/role/power to improve things. So for some 2022 will be JD’s second year, not the 4th year of his 6 year contract.

Ultimately it makes no real difference. Woody us the only guy who matters when it comes to opinions of JD. And it seems he has a surplus of patience at current, so no pressure (publicly) for us to improve or else. All we fans can do is is sit and wait and hope for better eventually.