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2 Questions for the Jets fans who want tank the rest of the season


DoomProphet
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14 hours ago, DoomProphet said:

I haven't had a chance to pay attention to next year's draft so I'm going to defer to you guys. I wanna know is really that big a difference between Hutchinson & Thibodeaux and the next few picks?

I just think if we lose to Jacksonville it will be a DISASTERm after the epic dumpster fire their season has been with Urban Meyer at the helm.

Is it worth it to go through the humilation of that to get one of the first 2 picks?

Let me know. Thanks guys. Happy Holidays to all of you!

Question for you: Have you ever complained about Zach Wilson yet this season?

If so, was the awesomeness of winning 2 meaningless games last year and saving ourselves from that “humiliation” worth it considering we lost Trevor?

To be clear, I’d prefer if the jets lose at this point but not in a humiliating fashion. Give me a close game, show some fight, lose on a last second field goal. 

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The only one who cares about beating the Jags is JD...and desperately so...the owner will have hawk eyes on this game and JD knows it...Lawrence will run for 2 TD's and Jags win...JD's nightmare...better to improve the pick as I see this as a trade down year...exit visas will be imminent for JD after 2022 season if this upcoming draft is not seen as transformative.

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I haven't had a chance to pay attention to next year's draft so I'm going to defer to you guys. I wanna know is really that big a difference between Hutchinson & Thibodeaux and the next few picks?
I just think if we lose to Jacksonville it will be a DISASTERm after the epic dumpster fire their season has been with Urban Meyer at the helm.
Is it worth it to go through the humilation of that to get one of the first 2 picks?
Let me know. Thanks guys. Happy Holidays to all of you!
It IS worth the humiliation

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

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Rooting for the team to lose accomplishes nothing. I'm a Jets fan. I root for them to win. If they lose, they lose, and that will help them in the draft. But it's not something I can control by rooting against them. So I just don't really see the point. They aren't going to purposefully tank games.

I was excited when they blew that game to the Raiders last year because I wanted Trevor Lawrence though. 

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14 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Not how I would approach the draft. I can see taking one of the EDGE guys if he is BAP at like 2 or 3 but we have far greater needs than EDGE, and I would still prioritize top picks for offense. We have a ton of picks we can shore up the line, S, and especially LB. Zero chance I take a safety super high. Absolutely none. The only way you get value from a safety that high is if he turns out to be Ed Reed 2.0 and that is like super unlikely.

WR is the only pick on offense I’d even think about at pick 2-3, but it’s too early to know if any will be projected in the top 3 when the time comes.

I still think Douglas is going to make an effort to trade down & double up on round 1 again next year if he can. It’s quite the luxury for a GM to have his top pick fall way short of expectations/hopes and still not come up empty in round 1 of the same draft.

I don’t see anyone taking a safety at 2-3 no matter what, no matter how highly ranked. But after moving down? Depends what slot. The team sure needs one, but in December - well before the FA/trade period in March - it’s hard to say what they’ll still need just as badly as today. 

I don’t see them adding a premium WR in FA just 1 year after spending on Davis. Drafting a premium-talent WR fits much better. Of course, that’s what Davis was himself not so long ago, lol.

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2 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Jets have won meaningless December games hurting our draft position for years. It never did anything for the “culture”. This time how bout we lose out and take the best guy we can possibly get 

Eh.  Losing out sucks. You don't need to be at the top of the draft to get great players. I think what we are seeing this year with the secondary tends to make me look at nature vs. nurture.  These guys seem like they can develop CBs to play their system.  I'm not so sure on the offensive side of the ball, but there seems to be development.  If it works with QB we are golden if not we are probably ****ed anyway. 

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15 hours ago, DoomProphet said:

I haven't had a chance to pay attention to next year's draft so I'm going to defer to you guys. I wanna know is really that big a difference between Hutchinson & Thibodeaux and the next few picks?

I just think if we lose to Jacksonville it will be a DISASTERm after the epic dumpster fire their season has been with Urban Meyer at the helm.

Is it worth it to go through the humilation of that to get one of the first 2 picks?

Let me know. Thanks guys. Happy Holidays to all of you!

This year's edge rusher class is a pretty good. There are 12 edge prospects ranked in the top 50. If Thib and Hutchinson falls in the Jets lap...great, but I wouldn't fret if they don't. Leal, Enagbare and Ebiketie could be had in the 2nd round. You can address WR, OL, LB and CB in the 1st round

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15 hours ago, DoomProphet said:

I haven't had a chance to pay attention to next year's draft so I'm going to defer to you guys. I wanna know is really that big a difference between Hutchinson & Thibodeaux and the next few picks?

I just think if we lose to Jacksonville it will be a DISASTERm after the epic dumpster fire their season has been with Urban Meyer at the helm.

Is it worth it to go through the humilation of that to get one of the first 2 picks?

Let me know. Thanks guys. Happy Holidays to all of you!

i mean at best we win one more game this year. because no way in hell we are winning either of the final two. and with everyone going down with covid right now we might have a pretty rough time beating the jags as well

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1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Players don't tank.  Coaches don't tank.  End of story.  Everyone should let this narrative go. 

Seriously. They’re not drafting a QB and they didn’t tank even when they were looking to draft one, so expecting it now is just silly. They beat 2 playoff teams down the stretch and shortly before those it was a minor miracle the Raiders pulled that one out in the end, too. 

Coaches won’t get future brownie points for supposedly “helping” by tanking. They want as many wins as possible so the aggregate record is better when it comes time to decide whether they get fired or not. The only players who can afford to tank are those who want to retire after the season or those with guaranteed contracts coming up, and the way they’ve played this year I’m not sure I’d be able to tell the difference if Mosley & Wilson decided to tank a key play here & there over the last few games.

No one seriously believes a last minute or OT 10-7 win over the Jaguars will catapult the Jets to better things in 2022, or worse if they’re on the losing end, but they’re not tanking. Imagine you’re a borderline-starter on the Jets, heading into an offseason where the team has lots of cap space and two drafts-worth of picks (arguably 3+ drafts-worth when factoring in the picks’ values), and someone floats the idea to you that the franchise is better off with a higher draft pick next year. Exactly; it’s not happening.

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I'm a bit worried about this draft class tbh.  The elite guys seem just ok compared to other years, and i'm not so sure about the depth of the draft.  The elite guys are Good players, but maybe not hall of fame ceilings (which is what you want from non qb number 1-4).  The two edges are the obvious choice, but are they going to really be Myles Garrett lvl? 

 There are some safeties, some good interior OL, and some cb and lb depth.  Again i'm not sure if we need depth so much as a true blue chip in those areas.   But ok, we can double dip safety and splurge on round3-5 lbs and feel happy b/c it is a big need.

This is not the class for truly elite WRs.  Again, good but probably not top 10 in the NFL ceiling... It looks to be the biggest trap of the draft given the hype, and again we don't need depth here.

Im normally inclined to trade down and stockpile picks b/c the Jets have so many garbage players, but do we really need an army of youngsters compared ot what we already have?  And we already have so many picks, it makes more sense to pick top tier guys.

I'm thinking lber, safety and OL are going to be the focus.  I think TE1, RB1, CB1 and WR1 will likely go unanswered.

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1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Players don't tank.  Coaches don't tank.  End of story.  Everyone should let this narrative go. 

And yet every year we get the same posts calling for us to tank, why we should tank etc.  Then just to double down complain that we dont know how to tank.

Youre 100% right, players play to win, coaches play to win. You can find a HOF player anywhere through the first round, or any round for that matter.  If we tanked, drafted 1st and took Lawrence the same people screaming ZW sucks would be screaming that TL sucks and they just knew it.  

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1 hour ago, Copernicus said:

Yeah, I see the guy who traded THREE players (Adams, Darnald, Williams) with zero worth to us (and the whole league knew it) because we were never going to resign them for TWO first rounders, a second, third , fourth and fifth

I also see a guy who drafted players who are mostly improving 

[Blah blah, fluff fluff, blah blah.]

Yeah, we are so screwed

I see a win loss record of 2-14 and an MOV of -13 4 since the 2020 season.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_2020

You can't give Joe Douglas the 7-9 record from 2019, because that was Mac's team. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And yet every year we get the same posts calling for us to tank, why we should tank etc.  Then just to double down complain that we dont know how to tank.

Youre 100% right, players play to win, coaches play to win. You can find a HOF player anywhere through the first round, or any round for that matter.  If we tanked, drafted 1st and took Lawrence the same people screaming ZW sucks would be screaming that TL sucks and they just knew it.  

Bang on brother.  Even the 'best QB in decades' savior Trevor Lawrence hasn't done much.  Its almost like rookie QB's are served best by sitting for a year or two.  

I want players and coaches who, even though they know the team sucks currently, go out and give it their all.  If you want players to go out and suck on purpose so they can get the next 'saviour' the following draft, then I would suggest you give up cheering for a sports team.

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15 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Teams and players have to learn how to win.   
The good teams from the great ones are separated by tight margins. The teams that understand how to and find ways to win are the ones that win Super Bowls. 
You have to start winning.  It’s not meaningless.  It’s meaningful to start to understand how to win.  

Having a quarterback drafted 2 overall not look like a turd is also meaningful.

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17 hours ago, DoomProphet said:

I haven't had a chance to pay attention to next year's draft so I'm going to defer to you guys. I wanna know is really that big a difference between Hutchinson & Thibodeaux and the next few picks?

I just think if we lose to Jacksonville it will be a DISASTERm after the epic dumpster fire their season has been with Urban Meyer at the helm.

Is it worth it to go through the humilation of that to get one of the first 2 picks?

Let me know. Thanks guys. Happy Holidays to all of you!

Who you got winning straight up this week, Jets or Jags? 

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16 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Not how I would approach the draft. I can see taking one of the EDGE guys if he is BAP at like 2 or 3 but we have far greater needs than EDGE, and I would still prioritize top picks for offense. We have a ton of picks we can shore up the line, S, and especially LB. Zero chance I take a safety super high. Absolutely none. The only way you get value from a safety that high is if he turns out to be Ed Reed 2.0 and that is like super unlikely.

Really don’t think there’s an offensive guy worthy of a top five pick, or one that would be a better value or fill a bigger need than an Edge. This defense needs edge rushers to operate, the Jets have none until Carl Lawson proves otherwise. And I don’t think the Jets can afford to count on that in 2022. 

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1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

I see a win loss record of 2-14 and an MOV of -13 4 since the 2020 season.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_2020

You can't give Joe Douglas the 7-9 record from 2019, because that was Mac's team. 

 

Not sure your point. Shanahan's record his first two seasons in SF were putrid (like us), year three and SF is one of the better NFL teams.

We have a Qb that played like a rookie but has steadily gotten better over the past 6 games. There are players, who are our future that have progressed rather quickly in Moore, AVT, and both Michael Carter's. Hall and Echols look like keepers. Yeah, I want more wins, just doesnt seem to work that way with any team in a rebuild. Miami was awful the past several years of their rebuild. Its not until half way through THIS season did they start to (seemingly) turn it around. (And we almost beat them)

Is this not enough to have hope? 

Happy Holidays PTWTG

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9 hours ago, win4ever said:

I'm all for losing out, because draft picks can actually make a tangible difference on the team next year.  

They aren't huddling up next year on 3rd and 7 against the Pats in the 4th quarter going "Hey, remember that win against Trevor Lawrence?  Let's pretend like these guys are the JAGS! Urban Sucks on 3.....1..2..3.."

Every draft class has great studs, be it in the first, second, or later rounds.  The idea is the higher the pick, the better the chance we have of actually drafting the guy.  Even if we buy into the theory that this draft is loaded at whatever position, it still serves us better to have the higher pick because then the option of trading down presents itself, where we still maintain the ability to pick from the deeper pool, but gain more assets.  

I'm not going to care about a win against the useless Jags or any other team past Sunday because we're playing for nothing at this point.  

we are playing for

 

Plus our GM can't pick his nose much less a good player in the top 10

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2 hours ago, Claymation said:

This year's edge rusher class is a pretty good. There are 12 edge prospects ranked in the top 50. If Thib and Hutchinson falls in the Jets lap...great, but I wouldn't fret if they don't. Leal, Enagbare and Ebiketie could be had in the 2nd round. You can address WR, OL, LB and CB in the 1st round

Unless the "we're done here" attitude on a message board is shared by the FO regarding Becton, I don't think they're touching OL in round 1 for a 3rd year in a row. Only way I could imagine is if they trade up from round 2 to add a third pick in round 1 (which itself would probably have to follow trading down from the higher or both original round 1 picks). 

I'm still expecting either:

  1. a veteran RT signing/re-signing in the $5MM range, in case of another extended OT starter injury, plus an iOL pick on day 2
  2. an 8-figure G/C veteran and a round 3-4 prospect to groom for the future at C or RT

Plus maybe another $2-3MM iOL veteran if they want to swap out Feeney.

Round 1...

Hard to say without knowing what they do or don't do in FA first, but swapping in S for OL and I'd tend to agree with you on the non-edge possibilities.

If they trade down into the latter half of the round, I could also see TE, but I say this not knowing which if any '22 prospects will be ranked that highly. 

 

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57 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

we are playing for

 

Plus our GM can't pick his nose much less a good player in the top 10

He's only had 1 pick inside the top 10 and that's his judgment. Becton was taken at #11 but skill is not his issue, he had no injury history prior to the NFL. Might want to wait before we pass that kind of judgement.

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20 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Unless the "we're done here" attitude on a message board is shared by the FO regarding Becton, I don't think they're touching OL in round 1 for a 3rd year in a row. Only way I could imagine is if they trade up from round 2 to add a third pick in round 1 (which itself would probably have to follow trading down from the higher or both original round 1 picks). 

I'm still expecting either:

  1. a veteran RT signing/re-signing in the $5MM range, in case of another extended OT starter injury, plus an iOL pick on day 2
  2. an 8-figure G/C veteran and a round 3-4 prospect to groom for the future at C or RT

Plus maybe another $2-3MM iOL veteran if they want to swap out Feeney.

Round 1...

Hard to say without knowing what they do or don't do in FA first, but swapping in S for OL and I'd tend to agree with you on the non-edge possibilities.

If they trade down into the latter half of the round, I could also see TE, but I say this not knowing which if any '22 prospects will be ranked that highly. 

 

For me, I'd love one of Hutch, Thib, Ojabo, or Karlaftis (in that order).

After that it kinda depends on where the Seattle pick lands. I'd probably rank Hamilton, Linderbaum, Trade Down, Williams, and Stingley as my preferred options. 

I really like Linderbaum but totally fine looking at the 2nd or 3rd round for a Center.

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15 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

For me, I'd love one of Hutch, Thib, Ojabo, or Karlaftis (in that order).

After that it kinda depends on where the Seattle pick lands. I'd probably rank Hamilton, Linderbaum, Trade Down, Williams, and Stingley as my preferred options. 

I really like Linderbaum but totally fine looking at the 2nd or 3rd round for a Center.

I've made enough posts for the regular season about it, but here's another, and knowing me I'll probably contribute more. I still think a 289-pound center in round 1 (let alone the top half of round 1) is appropriately an extreme long shot. At that weight he's far more likely to last to round 2 than go in the top 10, despite all the writeup love he's gotten on draft websites. 

The one good thing about McGovern having a bounce-back season is they aren't round 1 level desperate to upgrade that position above all others but one. They can (and arguably should) dip their toe only a bit later - as early as day 2 - for a perhaps less polished but still a plus-talent prospect to take over in 2023 full time, or maybe in 2022 if McGovern regresses badly or gets injured.

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19 hours ago, DoomProphet said:

I haven't had a chance to pay attention to next year's draft so I'm going to defer to you guys. I wanna know is really that big a difference between Hutchinson & Thibodeaux and the next few picks?

I just think if we lose to Jacksonville it will be a DISASTERm after the epic dumpster fire their season has been with Urban Meyer at the helm.

Is it worth it to go through the humilation of that to get one of the first 2 picks?

Let me know. Thanks guys. Happy Holidays to all of you!

The team is ravaged by covid and injury right now.  Losing to Jacksonville is completely meaningless.

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17 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Teams and players have to learn how to win.   
The good teams from the great ones are separated by tight margins. The teams that understand how to and find ways to win are the ones that win Super Bowls. 
You have to start winning.  It’s not meaningless.  It’s meaningful to start to understand how to win.  

If this were true, how come after we had those late meaningful wins in prior seasons that cost us draft position, we didn't see any noticeable improvement in the team the following year?  They still sucked the following season, despite learning how to win.

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4 hours ago, Copernicus said:

Yeah, I see the guy who traded THREE players (Adams, Darnald, Williams) with zero worth to us (and the whole league knew it) because we were never going to resign them for TWO first rounders, a second, third , fourth and fifth

I also see a guy who drafted players who are mostly improving 

A guy who drafted a secondary that has totally out played their draft positions in Hall, Carter, Guidry, and Echols 

A guy who picked off others practice squads and look to be a part of our future in Braxton Berrios, Quincey Williams and Elijah Riley

Developed UDFAs Huff and Lamar Jackson

Guess you're not happy with Michael Carter (Rb), Alijah Moore, and AVT?

Or trading Daniel Brown for our current starting RG? (then getting Daniel Brown back)

And yes, a QB who has played well enough to be rookie of the week twice and over the last 6 games has dramatically reduced his INTs and leads (or 2nd) in all rookie QBs in major categories like Tds and yards.

Yeah, we are so screwed

You had me until "rookie of the week twice"

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