Is Zach Wilson a Bust?

[ZachEY]

On a positive, even, hopeful note, if Zach Wilson* throws a TD pass this weekend, he stands to tie Geno Smith's total for this year.

[Peace Frog]

5 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

You can’t roll with the rookie excuse forever 

Can you “roll with” until he’s…you know…no longer a…you know…rookie?

Is that “forever”? 

[Jet_Engine1]

17 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

On a positive, even, hopeful note, if Zach Wilson* throws a TD pass this weekend, he stands to tie Geno Smith's total for this year.

Geno Smith had a pretty pedestrian,  meh Rookie Year. 

 

It blows Zachs away. 

 

[Jets Things]

3 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Geno Smith had a pretty pedestrian Rookie Year. 

 

It blows Zachs away. 

 

Not Geno's rookie year. Geno's 2021, which kinda makes it worse. Though Zach does have one more TD pass (6 VS 5), but also has 10 more INTs (11 VS 1). 

[Peace Frog]

9 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Geno Smith had a pretty pedestrian,  meh Rookie Year. 

 

It blows Zachs away. 

 

In what world does Geno’s rookie year when he completed 55.8% of his passes and threw 12 TDs to 21 INTs BLOW AWAY Zach Wilson’s rookie year?

I do not think the words “blows away” mean what you think it does. 

[Jet_Engine1]

3 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

In what world does Geno’s rookie year when he completed 55.8% of his passes and threw 12 TDs to 21 INTs BLOW AWAY Zach Wilson’s rookie year?

I do not think the words “blows away” mean what you think it does. 

Started all 16 games. Threw for over 3,000 yards. 

 

Please, I've got YOU arguing over who's better. Zach or Geno.

 

And in all seriousness,  Merry Christmas to you and yours! Have a great night.

[doitny]

47 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Started all 16 games. Threw for over 3,000 yards. 

 

Please, I've got YOU arguing over who's better. Zach or Geno.

 

And in all seriousness,  Merry Christmas to you and yours! Have a great night.

right now Zach is averaging 191 yds a game. at that rate he would have gone over 3000 yds. Geno Averaged 190. you dont get much closer than that

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Started all 16 games. Threw for over 3,000 yards. 

 

Please, I've got YOU arguing over who's better. Zach or Geno.

 

And in all seriousness,  Merry Christmas to you and yours! Have a great night.

Not arguing who was better but when someone says “blows away” and the dude was 56% and 12 TDs to 21 INTs I have to question the terminology “blows away”. 

Game over, man, Game over?!?

Nice meme lol. 

[Peace Frog]

22 minutes ago, doitny said:

right now Zach is averaging 191 yds a game. at that rate he would have gone over 3000 yds. Geno Averaged 190. you dont get much closer than that

Blows him away. 

Oh wait. 

[Warfish]

7 hours ago, rtnelson said:

Not if you ask them.  The only facts that exist to them are stats.  Nuance unacceptable.

By all means, feel free to educate the forum on the nuances as you see them. 

You have the same voice here that anyone else has.

[Jet Life]

He needs to put together a full game but has had a few good halves lately. There was a point where he looked awful all game so good to see some progress I guess. Better than nothing 

[Jet_Engine1]

55 minutes ago, doitny said:

right now Zach is averaging 191 yds a game. at that rate he would have gone over 3000 yds. Geno Averaged 190. you dont get much closer 

The most important ability is Availability. 

[Green Ghost]

19 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Not falling into this trap #moderators

Ninja.

[BurnleyJet]

Post count must be down so Max started this little doozy.

[Smashmouth]

17 hours ago, BCJet said:

Mike White's limitations as an NFL QB were very clear as soon as there was any real tape on him, he simply does not have the arm to push the ball down the field or outside the hash marks.  Take away the short stuff and he is going to struggle.  That is not ok for an NFL starter.

Zach has a lot of work to do, but until the middle of next year, we wont know what he is or is not.

Mike Whites Limitations are clear ? First of all most of what ya mentioned is wrong. White has a strong arm and could have easily grown within this offense. To claim he does not have the arm strength to move the ball down the field is just plain wrong and I have no idea where you got that from. Does he have a top five elite type arm ? Nope. But how many of those type guys have we seen fall flat on their faces ? 

The situation between MW and ZW is the stupid and ridiculous ceiling argument which always seems to take a front seat over someone who can actually play the game. I'm not trying to be a dick here but in your world guys like Tome Brady and Joe Montana would never have gotten a chance to start over Zach either ..... Montana had less of an arm than White and Brady was a statue yet somehow they became the greatest of all time by getting the so called short passes into their receivers hands and allowing the players to do the work. That's exactly what White did yet somehow in the Jets Fans world this is not acceptable.

This top rate organization does not need actual football players who produce they need players with Ceiling especially at the QB position where we settle for nothing less than the best there is. Its funny Zach plays historically bad football and some here give him an outright pass and Mike White played Historically good football and one game vs a defense that destroys QB's for a living and somehow he's not an NFL starter ?? Sorry but this makes no sense at all on any level

[Smashmouth]

4 hours ago, ZachEY said:

On a positive, even, hopeful note, if Zach Wilson* throws a TD pass this weekend, he stands to tie Geno Smith's total for this year.

But he's the second over all and has this imaginary ceiling everyone loves so much. I guess when you can't complete a 5 yard pass with consistency there has to be some kind of a ceiling.

[JohnnyLV]

6 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Mike Whites Limitations are clear ? First of all most of what ya mentioned is wrong. White has a strong arm and could have easily grown within this offense. To claim he does not have the arm strength to move the ball down the field is just plain wrong and I have no idea where you got that from. Does he have a top five elite type arm ? Nope. But how many of those type guys have we seen fall flat on their faces ? 

The situation between MW and ZW is the stupid and ridiculous ceiling argument which always seems to take a front seat over someone who can actually play the game. I'm not trying to be a dick here but in your world guys like Tome Brady and Joe Montana would never have gotten a chance to start over Zach either ..... Montana had less of an arm than White and Brady was a statue yet somehow they became the greatest of all time by getting the so called short passes into their receivers hands and allowing the players to do the work. That's exactly what White did yet somehow in the Jets Fans world this is not acceptable.

This top rate organization does not need actual football players who produce they need players with Ceiling especially at the QB position where we settle for nothing less than the best there is. Its funny Zach plays historically bad football and some here give him an outright pass and Mike White played Historically good football and one game vs a defense that destroys QB's for a living and somehow he's not an NFL starter ?? Sorry but this makes no sense at all on any level

I was excited for Mike White. But in the games he played he was more of a turnover machine than Zach, and showed no ability to stay healthy. It was an amazing game. But in the end, that is all it was. 

[Gramsci]

For me it's pretty obvious that the Jets need to figure out what they have with Zach next year. For that to happen there is no better way than to sign some playmakers this offseason. 

If he doesn't show progress next year, drop him and go and draft a new Qb. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

16 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Go back to what should have happened last year.

Don't draft a QB.  Build a decent team first with a serviceable veteran QB first.  

Then look for a young QB.

But yeah Zach looks like dog sh*t.  ? 

Maybe bring Sam back?

[JustInFudge]

16 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

By “all measures” are you also factoring in years in the league versus a rookie with the massive volume of nearly 10 full games under his belt?

Yep, that's why it's called having a "veteran" back up option.

[Jets723]

3 hours ago, Gramsci said:

For me it's pretty obvious that the Jets need to figure out what they have with Zach next year. For that to happen there is no better way than to sign some playmakers this offseason. 

If he doesn't show progress next year, drop him and go and draft a new Qb. 

This makes the most sense.  

[Maxman]

On 12/24/2021 at 3:18 PM, Irish Jet said:

That seems unlikely.

Agreed. With 30 completions he would end up well over 400 yards.

[Zerovoltz]

On 12/24/2021 at 9:59 AM, NIGHT STALKER said:

If he is a bust, what does that tell our fan base?  Here's what it tells me...ENOUGH IS ENOUGH with drafting QB's.  As some of you know, I've been a fan of this team since '64 when we drafted Namath.  How many GM's and HC's have we had?  A ton and none of them could draft a FQB...NONE OF THEM!  It's time if Wilson doesn't work out to give up draft picks and get ourselves an established QB that can come in here and lead this team.  Even then that doesn't guarantee success, but drafting that position does not work for us...it's well documented. 

There is a flip side to this story.  KC Fan circa 2017 -

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH with signing veteran QB's.  I've been a fan of the Chiefs all my life and the KC hasn't drafted a QB since 83 when Todd Blackledge Busted.  How many veterans have we tried?  Tons, and none of them have done squat except play mediocre football and lose in playoff games!  We NEED to draft a QB to get over the hump!   KC fans finally got our wish and they drafted Mahomes.  That's worked out well.

 

Anyhow...as an outside observer, I've seen enough of Wilson to believe he's a bust...and that his play won't improve enough to ever be considered a franchise type QB that anyone believes can lead the Jets to post season success.

I highly doubt the Jets FO has the time, or backing by your ownership to do this...but Carson Strong is the answer.  Just as the Cardinals had seen enough of Josh Rosen after 1 year...Wilson has put enough awful QB play on tape (despite the injuries and covid and roster...HE sucks.)  ....move on... and draft Strong.

And regarding Strong....he's not that high on draft boards yet...he'll be 1/1 by the time the draft hype machine gets finished churning.

Carson Strong......could be the Jets Savior....will be somoene elses instead most likely.  You heard it here first.

[Warfish]

Let’s hope today Zach starts really showing us he isn’t a bust. Go Zach, go Jets!

Cynicism and doubt is for Mon-Sat.

Game-day is for hope eternal.

[TuscanyTile2]

On 12/24/2021 at 11:04 AM, Hal N of Provo said:

Go on…. Why did Zach look good?  What did he do right?  

HAHAHAHA.   Don’t say anything nice.   It would trigger the apocalypse.  
 

(Also, not true.   Not every QB looks good in preseason, but we can ignore this.). 

As much as they might want to, not every QB can be Brett Ratliff.

[Jetsfan80]

Bump.  

Yes.  The answer is yes.

[Hal N of Provo]

19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Bump.  

Yes.  The answer is yes.

Do you join @T0mShaneand @jgb in the view they Zach is not elusive or athletic?  

How do you rate his arm strength.

Rate how quick you think his release is.

How were you able to see that he was washed up before age 23?

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Hal N of Provo said:

Do you join @T0mShaneand @jgb in the view they Zach is not elusive or athletic?  

How do you rate his arm strength.

Rate how quick you think his release is.

How were able to see that he was washed up before age 23?

 

His arm strength, release, and elusiveness are fine.  Sadly, those are not the most important skills when it comes to being a QB in the NFL.  Those are pass/fail graded skills.  What can't get a pass/fail grade are the skills that come between the ears.

[Hal N of Provo]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

His arm strength, release, and elusiveness are fine.  Sadly, those are not the most important skills when it comes to being a QB in the NFL.  Those are pass/fail graded skills.  What can't get a pass/fail grade are the skills that come between the ears.

Like you think they are all NFL average? 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Hal N of Provo said:

Like you think they are all NFL average? 

I think he's good enough in those areas for NFL standards.  But it doesn't matter if he doesn't have what it takes between the ears, and also if he can't cure his accuracy issues.  JaMarcus Russell could throw 80 yards from his knees but he was still a bust.

Not sure what's hard to understand about this.  

[doitny]

9 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Do you join @T0mShaneand @jgb in the view they Zach is not elusive or athletic?  

How do you rate his arm strength.

Rate how quick you think his release is.

How were able to see that he was washed up before age 23?

@T0mShane @jgb and @Jetsfan80 are...........................

 

[Hal N of Provo]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I think he's good enough in those areas for NFL standards.  But it doesn't matter if he doesn't have what it takes between the ears, and also if he can't cure his accuracy issues.  JaMarcus Russell could throw 80 yards from his knees but he was still a bust.

Not sure what's hard to understand about this.  

I’m asking you to rate the individual traits I asked about.  
 

It’s a free country.   You don’t have to answer and you can tell me all the reasons you think he’s a bust too.   But I’d love you to rate those traits.

[undertow]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I think he's good enough in those areas for NFL standards.  But it doesn't matter if he doesn't have what it takes between the ears, and also if he can't cure his accuracy issues.  JaMarcus Russell could throw 80 yards from his knees but he was still a bust.

Not sure what's hard to understand about this.  

Biggest problem I have with Zach is he has a shaky pocket presences...his uneasiness in the pocket is probably what's effecting his accuracy.  I'm hoping reps and time make him more comfortable but I'm not sure if I've ever seen someone look so uncomfortable then become elite.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Hal N of Provo said:

I’m asking you to rate the individual traits I asked about.  
 

It’s a free country.   You don’t have to answer and you can tell me all the reasons you think he’s a bust too.   But I’d love you to rate those traits.

A for arm strength, A for release, B+ for elusiveness.

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Do you join @T0mShaneand @jgb in the view they Zach is not elusive or athletic?  

How do you rate his arm strength.

Rate how quick you think his release is.

How were you able to see that he was washed up before age 23?

The Jaguars let him score.