Popular Post OtherwiseHappyinLife Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 Dating back to the late 90s— Parcells, Groh, Edwards, Mangini, Ryan and Bowles all had winning records in their first season. Heck, Gase was 7-9 which we should all consider a strong first season for a man of his uh uh .. ‘considerable’ talents. Edwards, Mangini and Ryan all had their teams in the playoffs year 1 while Parcells, Groh and Bowles narrowly missed. Gase was even flirting with the playoffs down the stretch. All later quit or imploded. Heck, our recent first round QBs still looked like potential future saviors after year 1. Most fans were still optimistic (maybe more) about Pennington, Sanchez and Darnold going into year 2. (** Geno Smith was a 2nd round pick **). Which brings us to now. Saleh has (rightfully) comer under heavy criticism from the fan base his first year and there was a recent poll on this site asking whether Zach Wilson was already a bust! Who knows?? Maybe this is the reversal we need, to have a team that completely starts from scratch year 1 for the benefit of year 2. Do I still think the leadership has made silly mistakes? Of course and don’t even get me started on our Defensive Coordinator? But could we reap some major benefits of this unwatchable foundation laying in year 2? All the other HC and QB arrows were pointing up and went down in rather short order (Pennington aside). Let’s hope Saleh and Wilson start slow and move up. 12 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Warfish Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 I'd like to see immediate and material improvement in the quality of play and the Win/Loss record in 2022. That feels like a good place to start for this Coaching staff. 12 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FidelioJet Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said: Dating back to the late 90s— Parcells, Groh, Edwards, Mangini, Ryan and Bowles all had winning records in their first season. Heck, Gase was 7-9 which we should all consider a strong first season for a man of his uh uh .. ‘considerable’ talents. Edwards, Mangini and Ryan all had their teams in the playoffs year 1 while Parcells, Groh and Bowles narrowly missed. Gase was even flirting with the playoffs down the stretch. All later quit or imploded. Heck, our recent first round QBs still looked like potential future saviors after year 1. Most fans were still optimistic (maybe more) about Pennington, Sanchez and Darnold going into year 2. (** Geno Smith was a 2nd round pick **). Which brings us to now. Saleh has (rightfully) comer under heavy criticism from the fan base his first year and there was a recent poll on this site asking whether Zach Wilson was already a bust! Who knows?? Maybe this is the reversal we need, to have a team that completely starts from scratch year 1 for the benefit of year 2. Do I still think the leadership has made silly mistakes? Of course and don’t even get me started on our Defensive Coordinator? But could we reap some major benefits of this unwatchable foundation laying in year 2? All the other HC and QB arrows were pointing up and went down in rather short order (Pennington aside). Let’s hope Saleh and Wilson start slow and move up. This is the first true rebuild we've ever done. JD and Saleh are trying to do this the right way. Wether it works or not is still an outstanding question. I'm still bullish on this group. 22 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, Warfish said: I'd like to see immediate and material improvement in the quality of play and the Win/Loss record in 2022. That feels like a good place to start for this Coaching staff. Everyone should be able to agree that a LARGE step forward in 2022 is the only thing that can prevent the entire JD-Saleh-Wilson regime from being placed firmly on a scalding hot seat. For the avoidance of doubt, a LARGE step forward is being featured in the "In the Hunt" graphic this time next year. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68JET11 Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 I think we all want to see that... To me progress is w/l, but it also shows improved discipline, improved consistency, etc... I believe those things plus more talent should get us to the 8-10 win total we think we should be at for improvement from 2021. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post slats Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 34 minutes ago, Warfish said: I'd like to see immediate and material improvement in the quality of play and the Win/Loss record in 2022. That feels like a good place to start for this Coaching staff. Zach and the Jets both need to be -at least- middle of the pack next season. Zach with a passer rating north of 90, and the team in the .500 range. And they need to have a solid backup plan at QB if Wilson can’t make that jump. I never expected anything in terms of wins this year, but I was hoping for better play down the stretch. Next year, they need some of these grand plans to transform into results. 15 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post playtowinthegame Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 43 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: This is the first true rebuild we've ever done. 2 1 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, slats said: Zach and the Jets both need to be -at least- middle of the pack next season. Zach with a passer rating north of 90, and the team in the .500 range. And they need to have a solid backup plan at QB if Wilson can’t make that jump. I never expected anything in terms of wins this year, but I was hoping for better play down the stretch. Next year, they need some of these grand plans to transform into results. I agree completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wit Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 The issue is that the rest of our division is way better and seems to be way better coached. That’s almost six losses already. If Miami trades for Watson…. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post slimjasi Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Warfish said: I'd like to see immediate and material improvement in the quality of play and the Win/Loss record in 2022. That feels like a good place to start for this Coaching staff. Yes, I think after another big offseason for this regime, my expectations will be something in the ballpark of 7-9 wins. No matter what, I want to have a legit chance at a Wild card berth heading into December. No more starting the season 1-7 or whatever and being out of it by Halloween. That era of Jets football has to be over next year. 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bungaman Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Wit said: The issue is that the rest of our division is way better and seems to be way better coached. That’s almost six losses already. If Miami trades for Watson…. Both McDermott and Flores were on the hot seat their first couple of years: everyone wants instant results/gratification. Heck - if Miami had not just won seven in a row after opening the season 1-7, Flores might have already been unemployed. It sucks to have to wait and see, but I think we have to wait and see, both in terms of the GM and the coaching staff. They did not start out having much to work with. 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 We will have high draft picks and cap space so no excuses for not having some significant improvement in this team next year 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 52 minutes ago, slats said: Zach and the Jets both need to be -at least- middle of the pack next season. Zach with a passer rating north of 90, and the team in the .500 range. And they need to have a solid backup plan at QB if Wilson can’t make that jump. I never expected anything in terms of wins this year, but I was hoping for better play down the stretch. Next year, they need some of these grand plans to transform into results. More than reasonable without being too lenient and I completely agree. After a brutal start, Elijiah, the OL, Carter RB all seem to be jelling nicely. Wilson seems to have settled down and has shown improvement…still need more time and to see more improvement. LaFleur looks like he really found his groove Saleh I’m eh on it. Not convinced either way, but I did expect a motivated and fiery team. Too many zombie walk thru games. The DL has massively underperformed (groundhogs day) I do have some real concerns about the DC though….if we can upgrade that (shouldn’t be hard to do considering how bad he‘s been) we should look to dk that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Joe W. Namath Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 Patience and build through the draft. We have never done it this way. Thank goodness we finally have smart people like Douglas and Saleh running this franchise. The future is bright Jet fans. Its happening!!! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jetstream23 Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 The team needs to be competitive in 2022. W/L record must improve for sure but I'm not saying the Jets should have a winning season otherwise fire the coaching staff. An 8-9 2022 record would sit well with me IF we see a jump from Wilson AND the obscene point differential the Jets have had dramatically improves. A close to .500 record with something like 23-21 losses to the Bills would feel a whole lot better than the 53-14 loss to the Patriots in Week 6 this year. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Beerfish Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 Win or look good losing. The sign of a promising team is looking good even when you lose. the jets have not looked good while losing. If the jets don't look much better next year we have a defensive side of the ball gase on our hands. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said: Dating back to the late 90s— Parcells, Groh, Edwards, Mangini, Ryan and Bowles all had winning records in their first season. Heck, Gase was 7-9 which we should all consider a strong first season for a man of his uh uh .. ‘considerable’ talents. Edwards, Mangini and Ryan all had their teams in the playoffs year 1 while Parcells, Groh and Bowles narrowly missed. Gase was even flirting with the playoffs down the stretch. All later quit or imploded. Heck, our recent first round QBs still looked like potential future saviors after year 1. Most fans were still optimistic (maybe more) about Pennington, Sanchez and Darnold going into year 2. (** Geno Smith was a 2nd round pick **). Which brings us to now. Saleh has (rightfully) comer under heavy criticism from the fan base his first year and there was a recent poll on this site asking whether Zach Wilson was already a bust! Who knows?? Maybe this is the reversal we need, to have a team that completely starts from scratch year 1 for the benefit of year 2. Do I still think the leadership has made silly mistakes? Of course and don’t even get me started on our Defensive Coordinator? But could we reap some major benefits of this unwatchable foundation laying in year 2? All the other HC and QB arrows were pointing up and went down in rather short order (Pennington aside). Let’s hope Saleh and Wilson start slow and move up. i see many parallels with 1977 and the beginning of the michaels era. michaels got rid of lots of dead wood and got good players drafted. anyone remember his bookend tackles? granted he missed badly on lam jones but did pretty well otherwise. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said: Patience and build through the draft. We have never done it this way. Thank goodness we finally have smart people like Douglas and Saleh running this franchise. The future is bright Jet fans. Its happening!!! The Bengals are a great example of this. It took YEARS of meandering at the bottom of the division before they made the big improvement. In fact, the Jets are in Year 1 of Saleh and Wilson. The Bengals are in Year 2 of Burrow and Year 3 of Coach Taylor. I'm not saying the Jets will end up with the same turnaround but the idea that this shouldn't be given a couple years is crazy. Imagine canning Saleh and pivoting off Zach next year to bring in our third HC/QB combo in 3 years! LULZ!!!! Then watching whoever that is go 5-12 next year and the fans wanting to get rid of them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRy56 Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 The Jets could certainly be a .500 team with a chance at a wildcard spot just like the Raiders, Dolphins, Browns of the world next year with an aggressive off-season. It’s going to be there for the taking for JD, it’s up to him to be willing and get it done 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, jetstream23 said: The Bengals are a great example of this. It took YEARS of meandering at the bottom of the division before they made the big improvement. In fact, the Jets are in Year 1 of Saleh and Wilson. The Bengals are in Year 2 of Burrow and Year 3 of Coach Taylor. I'm not saying the Jets will end up with the same turnaround but the idea that this shouldn't be given a couple years is crazy. Imagine canning Saleh and pivoting off Zach next year to bring in our third HC/QB combo in 3 years! LULZ!!!! Then watching whoever that is go 5-12 next year and the fans wanting to get rid of them. The only people who dont think this is going well are a certain portion of miserable Jet fans. NFL experts, coaches across the league, league insiders and EVERYONE inside the the Jets building are absolutely thrilled with what is happening at Florham Park. It is an absolute dream we have Douglas, Saleh, LaFluer, Ulbrich, Wilson, Moore, Carter, AVT, Bryce hall. Echols, tons of draft picks etc. If you cant see where this team is headed, you are blind. 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Syndicate Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 hour ago, FidelioJet said: This is the first true rebuild we've ever done. JD and Saleh are trying to do this the right way. Wether it works or not is still an outstanding question. I'm still bullish on this group. Idzik literally did the same thing. Stripped the team down of talent, got rid of bad contracts, traded players for draft picks. He was just never given a 3rd year with his own coach. 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Prodigal Syndicate said: Idzik literally did the same thing. Stripped the team down of talent, got rid of bad contracts, traded players for draft picks. He was just never given a 3rd year with his own coach. Correct. If Idzik's 2013 draft wasn't so pathetic, he would have gotten more time. That and he had no ability to relate to or handle the media. The New York media despised him 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MykePM Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said: Idzik literally did the same thing. Stripped the team down of talent, got rid of bad contracts, traded players for draft picks. He was just never given a 3rd year with his own coach. He also led what was arguably the worst draft in Jets history. He was the right guy to strip it down, but not the right guy to build it back up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jago Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 Move the Sticks pod *fwiw*DJ sees the glass half fulldid say a “miracle turnaround” actually a possibility.picks, cap, rookie play.all turns on ZW obviously.in any event I’d much rather be in the Jets situation than the Giants if nothing else. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sonny Werblin Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 2 hours ago, rangerous said: i see many parallels with 1977 and the beginning of the michaels era. michaels got rid of lots of dead wood and got good players drafted. anyone remember his bookend tackles? granted he missed badly on lam jones but did pretty well otherwise. So true. In 3 drafts from 1977 to 1979, the Jets added lots of player who would be starters on very good teams: Starting O lineman: Marvin Powell, Chris Ward, and Dan Alexander Starting WRs: Wesley Walker and Derrick Gaffney Starting TE: Mickey Shuler Starting RBs: Scott Dierking and Kevin Long Back-up QBs: Matt Robinson and Pat Ryan (both of whom were better than Richard Todd) Starting D linemen: Joe Klecko, Mark Gastineau and Marty Lyons Starting LBs: Stan Blinka and John Hennesey Starting DBs: Bobby Jackson, Donald Dykes and Johnny Lynn Walt Michaels did have the advantage of taking over a team, that while 3-11 the previous season, still had some pretty good core players like Joe Fields, Randy Rasmussen, Clark Gaines, Burgess Owens, Shaffer Suggs and Greg Buttle. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Syndicate Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 19 minutes ago, slimjasi said: Correct. If Idzik's 2013 draft wasn't so pathetic, he would have gotten more time. That and he had no ability to relate to or handle the media. The New York media despised him 11 minutes ago, MykePM said: He also led what was arguably the worst draft in Jets history. He was the right guy to strip it down, but not the right guy to build it back up. Yeah he stunk no doubt about that. Just disputing the narrative we have never seen this before. Idzik also had the misfortune of coming at a time when we just had some recent success and the fan base didnt want to lose that and didnt want to accept a rebuild after we finally saw a glimmer of hope. There was so much anger back then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JohnnyLV Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said: More than reasonable without being too lenient and I completely agree. After a brutal start, Elijiah, the OL, Carter RB all seem to be jelling nicely. Wilson seems to have settled down and has shown improvement…still need more time and to see more improvement. LaFleur looks like he really found his groove Saleh I’m eh on it. Not convinced either way, but I did expect a motivated and fiery team. Too many zombie walk thru games. The DL has massively underperformed (groundhogs day) I do have some real concerns about the DC though….if we can upgrade that (shouldn’t be hard to do considering how bad he‘s been) we should look to dk that. Many people said all they want to see from Zach is continuous improvement. I think we all anticipated a higher starting point but the reality is that Zach is showing improvement each week. Also I think people are forgetting a little just how dramatically different next years team will be. We will likely have 20+ new players on the roster at a bare minimum. If we draft well and have a good offseason we could should a dramatic uptick 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 43 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said: Yeah he stunk no doubt about that. Just disputing the narrative we have never seen this before. Idzik also had the misfortune of coming at a time when we just had some recent success and the fan base didnt want to lose that and didnt want to accept a rebuild after we finally saw a glimmer of hope. There was so much anger back then. Yeah it’s a fair point that we’ve seen the tear down before. The slight but maybe significant difference this time is the GM hired the head coach and those guys seem to be on the same page - GM is drafting guys for the schemes the coaching staff wants to run. What happened after Idzik is also kind of a cautionary tale. It’s easy to go hog wild in free agency with cap space and piece together a team that’s a borderline playoff contender. That usually doesn’t last too long though and multiple years later there’s still leftover dead cap hits and the Mosley contract. Free agency definitely has its place but those big long term contracts usually aren’t beneficial. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sec101row23 Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 With only 2 weeks remaining in the season you only have 3 teams in the AFC that aren’t in the mix for the playoffs. Just 3. Given the parity and additional playoff spot, there is no reason the Jets shouldn’t be “in the mix” at this point of the season next year. 2022 is about wins and losses. No more moral victories, no more just looking good while losing. No more of Saleh getting in front of the reporters and saying it’s not about winning. Expecting an 8-9 win team isn’t unrealistic. Play meaningful football on Christmas weekend. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinc855 Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 We won 4 this year if we don’t win another. Your basement win expectation, and I mean basement is 7 for 2022. The Jets should be in the hunt somewhere next year for a wildcard spot. I would like to see a 8 win min season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS17 Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 20 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: With only 2 weeks remaining in the season you only have 3 teams in the AFC that aren’t in the mix for the playoffs. Just 3. Given the parity and additional playoff spot, there is no reason the Jets shouldn’t be “in the mix” at this point of the season next year. 2022 is about wins and losses. No more moral victories, no more just looking good while losing. No more of Saleh getting in front of the reporters and saying it’s not about winning. Expecting an 8-9 win team isn’t unrealistic. Play meaningful football on Christmas weekend. I’ll settle for meaningful football in November at this point. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Prodigal Syndicate said: Idzik literally did the same thing. Stripped the team down of talent, got rid of bad contracts, traded players for draft picks. He was just never given a 3rd year with his own coach. So you're saying, it wasn't done right. As I stated. The next GM came in and spent frivolously and stupidly on FA, continued to draft DT's and treated the most important position in all of sports as an afterthought. The tear down is only half the battle - which took almost 3 years to unravel. It's finally complete. This is the first year of the rebuild - Idzik didn't get a chance to get this far.. Woody Johnson caved to fan pressure and dumb banners....Doesn't seem like he's going to this time and JD will get his chance to do it right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Syndicate Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 hour ago, FidelioJet said: So you're saying, it wasn't done right. As I stated. The next GM came in and spent frivolously and stupidly on FA, continued to draft DT's and treated the most important position in all of sports as an afterthought. The tear down is only half the battle - which took almost 3 years to unravel. It's finally complete. This is the first year of the rebuild - Idzik didn't get a chance to get this far.. Woody Johnson caved to fan pressure and dumb banners....Doesn't seem like he's going to this time and JD will get his chance to do it right. Nah what you said was this is the first true rebuild we have seen. Which is the company line Saleh and Douglas are pushing to excuse being bad and having little to no talent. We saw Idzik starting a true rebuild and going through the hard part already. So Douglas is pretty much at the same point idzik got to. Having no talent and being bad. The actual rebuild part where you get good neither idzik or Douglas have done yet. Douglas has already been GM longer than idzik was so he has had more opportunity so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Syndicate Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 hour ago, sec101row23 said: With only 2 weeks remaining in the season you only have 3 teams in the AFC that aren’t in the mix for the playoffs. Just 3. Given the parity and additional playoff spot, there is no reason the Jets shouldn’t be “in the mix” at this point of the season next year. 2022 is about wins and losses. No more moral victories, no more just looking good while losing. No more of Saleh getting in front of the reporters and saying it’s not about winning. Expecting an 8-9 win team isn’t unrealistic. Play meaningful football on Christmas weekend. Eh, half the people on this board are already chalking up next year as it's okay we are bad for some reason. But I agree. If we cant compete for a wildcard in a GMs 4th year what are we doing here. 7-10 wins is what I want next season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 2 hours ago, johnnysd said: Many people said all they want to see from Zach is continuous improvement. I think we all anticipated a higher starting point but the reality is that Zach is showing improvement each week. Also I think people are forgetting a little just how dramatically different next years team will be. We will likely have 20+ new players on the roster at a bare minimum. If we draft well and have a good offseason we could should a dramatic uptick I wanted us to draft Wilson. I think his ceiling is insanely high. I also thought he NEEDED to and should have say at least 1/2 the season. I get it, they went with the “we aint making the playoffs and we’re starting rookies anyway” approach….but I still think having Wilson watch and learn and play the last 5-6 games would have been the best approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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