Root for wins? Root for Draft Postion? What do REAL Jets Fans do?

[K_O_Brien]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you so much as turn on the television this weekend to watch the New York Jets lose by 30 points to a semi-retired Brady and Gronk, your fanhood is not in question, ever. This team sucks, it’s boring, and it’s unlikeable. If you’re still watching, you are a diehard fan. 
 

If you attend this game to root for the Jets, you are insane and should be in prison.

We do suck, but the team don't seem unlikeable to me?

Moore, Carter, Berrios, White, Cole, Williams, Fant, Feeney, JFM, the Canadian doctor and Lawson all come across as likeable guys to me. Zach seems a little nerdy and intense, so might not be everyone's cup of tea, so I'll leave him out, but overall this is a team that are easy enough to root for. 

I think the problem is more we are a boring team to watch, which you also mention. 

[T0mShane]

Just now, K_O_Brien said:

We do suck, but the team don't seem unlikeable to me?

Moore, Carter, Berrios, White, Cole, Williams, Fant, Feeney, JFM, the Canadian doctor and Lawson all come across as likeable guys to me. Zach seems a little nerdy and intense, so might not be everyone's cup of tea, so I'll leave him out, but overall this is a team that are easy enough to root for. 

I think the problem is more we are a boring team to watch, which you also mention. 

I think it’s the coaches that make it unlikeable, to be honest. Saleh seems like a fraud, Ulbrich was overhired, and LaFleur is neurotic. It was cool to see Midldeton coaching the team. He looks like a football guy.

[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

We do suck, but the team don't seem unlikeable to me?

Moore, Carter, Berrios, White, Cole, Williams, Fant, Feeney, JFM, the Canadian doctor and Lawson all come across as likeable guys to me. Zach seems a little nerdy and intense, so might not be everyone's cup of tea, so I'll leave him out, but overall this is a team that are easy enough to root for. 

I think the problem is more we are a boring team to watch, which you also mention. 

That was awesome. You said it: the team is not unlikeable. I like it A LOT.

But, let's face it, who can really tell with Covid and the injuries? Before we played an entire game we lost two of our supposedly best players. With Covid, we had double-digit players unable to suit up. So, how you gonna judge that? 

I tell you what is unlikeable: giving up hundreds of yards to opponents week after week, scoring less than 20+ points per game. Not having your main weapons at WR week after week.

But I did see some progress in the team over this season. And that is what I expected. I didn't expect, just because some people thought the Jets had "names" in the offseason, that we would somehow become a playoff team in the first season. No, I expected better than 2 wins and hoped for 5. 

I'm seeing SIGNIFICANT improvement on the OL. Compared to last year and before (which was some of the worst OL play I've ever witnessed) this OL had ability. The pass blocking is better, the run blocking is significantly better.

I'm seeing development in the secondary. Hall and the others have actually played decently lately. I like the move of Pinnock to safety. There's plenty of room for additional improvement.

I wish I could say that about the front seven. But I HOPE that the talent learns to play more consistently and that they upgrade the talent on the DL and at LB. I like the Williamses, Mosely, and JFM. But, really, they are all very inconsistent. 

Finally, more durable WRs. I guess I am now on the Dump Mims bandwagon. Some of the bonehead plays he made in the victory were hard to accept. And he hasn't seemed to improve at all or have become more versatile. That said, I think the major issue is staying on the field vs. talent upgrades.

[K_O_Brien]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I think it’s the coaches that make it unlikeable, to be honest. Saleh seems like a fraud, Ulbrich was overhired, and LaFleur is neurotic. It was cool to see Midldeton coaching the team. He looks like a football guy.

I can agree with this. I expected to like Saleh (the person, rather than the coach) more than I have. His press conferences annoy me a little, seems too eager to deflect and highlight the struggles of a rookie QB rather than show more accountability for his own failings. 

He gives off an air of superiority, that he knows best because he came across from the 49ers and what would the lowly Jets and their fanbase know about a rebuild. Maybe he does and none of this matters if we start winning games, but for now he's a lot more bland as a person than I expected.

I think Saleh is trying too hard to be this sage-like CEO of a head coach, when he really should just be himself. 

Middleton seemed like a cool guy. I didn't care too much if the Jags scored at the end there, but when you saw how happy Middleton was post-game in the locker room, you'd have to have a heart of stone not to feel happy for the guy. 

 

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

I can agree with this. I expected to like Saleh (the person, rather than the coach) more than I have. His press conferences annoy me a little, seems too eager to deflect and highlight the struggles of a rookie QB rather than show more accountability for his own failings. 

He gives off an air of superiority, that he knows best because he came across from the 49ers and what would the lowly Jets and their fanbase know about a rebuild. Maybe he does and none of this matters if we start winning games, but for now he's a lot more bland as a person than I expected.

I think Saleh is trying too hard to be this sage-like CEO of a head coach, when he really should just be himself. 

Middleton seemed like a cool guy. I didn't care too much if the Jags scored at the end there, but when you saw how happy Middleton was post-game in the locker room, you'd have to have a heart of stone not to feel happy for the guy. 

 

100%. Saleh comes across as entitled, like the boss’ kid who was gifted the VP role. He’s never been a head coach anywhere, had limited success as an assistant, and his replacement in San Fran is better than he was. Gigantic red flag that, in his first time out, he surrounded himself with his homeboys. If he had an ounce of confidence in himself, he would have brought in an experienced guy. Instead, he thinks he’s going to survive by being a Kyle Shanahan clone, which is clownish.

[k-met57]

5 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Can you be a little more vague?

the team ran for 270 yards, got a kick return TD, Wilson only threw the ball 22 times, had a bunch of drops and 2 total TD's. But somehow your takeaway was that he didn't fling the ball all over the place. Not good enough.

Then Wilson runs for almost 100 yards, and your takeaway is that he had 1 big run "where the defense gave up"...which didn't happen.

so to recap:

100 yards passing and a TD on 14 completions with a few drops from receivers (while missing your top 3 receivers and more than half the OL)

91 yards rushing and a TD

W

and your takeaway is...."not the type of game you want to show development"...

 

i am not an idiot, i know the Jaguars aren't the buccaneers, but we were missing 10 (?) players to covid on a team already ravaged by injury, and Wilson led the team to victory while not making any mistakes and making several big plays.

 

What would have been an acceptable "development" game? 400 passing yards to Denzel Mims, Braxton Barrios, Keelan Cole, and Tyler Croft with an OL with mostly backups (which actually did ok)?

 

[TuscanyTile2]

16 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

the team ran for 270 yards, got a kick return TD, Wilson only threw the ball 22 times, had a bunch of drops and 2 total TD's. But somehow your takeaway was that he didn't fling the ball all over the place. Not good enough.

Then Wilson runs for almost 100 yards, and your takeaway is that he had 1 big run "where the defense gave up"...which didn't happen.

so to recap:

100 yards passing and a TD on 14 completions with a few drops from receivers (while missing your top 3 receivers and more than half the OL)

91 yards rushing and a TD

W

and your takeaway is...."not the type of game you want to show development"...

 

i am not an idiot, i know the Jaguars aren't the buccaneers, but we were missing 10 (?) players to covid on a team already ravaged by injury, and Wilson led the team to victory while not making any mistakes and making several big plays.

 

What would have been an acceptable "development" game? 400 passing yards to Denzel Mims, Braxton Barrios, Keelan Cole, and Tyler Croft with an OL with mostly backups (which actually did ok)?

 

I want to see him show FQB potential at passing the football.  He's not going to be Lamar Jackson in this league (nor would we ever want him to be that type of player) so a big day running the football from him isn't all that inspiring.  I will grant you that there were some drops but even if he threw for 150 yards, that's nothing overwhelming.

I'm not saying Zach was bad on Sunday.  I'm just saying he didn't show any kind of "he's really turning the corner" type ability.  I'll say this again - if he can sling it against Tampa and Buffalo and we win both games then that would be wonderful.  If he slings it and we lose both games, it would still be wonderful.  But let him show signs that he can use his big arm and make great throws against good defenses.  If he reverts back to bouncing passes the next 2 weeks, it will be very depressing.  

[bostonmajet]

I understand that it is a bad team and my head knows the better draft position is important. My heart always roots for them. 

[Jet Life]

I was rooting for the loss to secure Hutchinson or Thibideoux 

[HessStation]

I’m a Jets fan who roots for Draft position therefor not a “real” fan. ??

[DJF71]

I root for progress. 

[New York Mick]

At this point I’d rather have as many high draft picks as possible. Sooner or later they’re going to get a few right. Winning enough games to miss out on top players or possible trades but not making the playoffs isn’t going to get this franchise over the hump. 

[FlagmanL11]

Root for wins. Best players come from the 4th pick on. Draft position does not matter.  Just need to pick the right players who can stay on the field (as Becton is a miss). 

[k-met57]

12 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm just saying he didn't show any kind of "he's really turning the corner" type ability.  I'll say this again - if he can sling it against Tampa and Buffalo and we win both games then that would be wonderful.

you can say it again, it would still be dumb. who do you want him to sling the ball to and with what OL protecting him vs those 2 SB hopeful teams? there is not 1 QB in football who could throw for 300 yards with keelan cole, braxton barrios and tyler kroft, behind an OL of backups.

[TuscanyTile2]

8 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

you can say it again, it would still be dumb. who do you want him to sling the ball to and with what OL protecting him vs those 2 SB hopeful teams? there is not 1 QB in football who could throw for 300 yards with keelan cole, braxton barrios and tyler kroft, behind an OL of backups.

Who are the superstars that Davis Mills is playing with?  Brandin Cooks is a good WR but he's bounced around the league enough that, 8 years into his career, he's with his 4th team (Saints, Pats, Rams, Texans).  

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MillDa02.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2021.htm

[Nixhead]

Against the Super Bowl champs and the Bills - 100% you root for the Jets to win!!! It shouldn't even be a second thought. If you can beat these kind of teams late in the season in games they are trying to win you are proving that next season you could be a force. Your offseason will be that much more pleasant and you might attract some better free agents. Odds are Jets dont win but Yes you root your ass off for the Jets to win these games!

[GKnight83]

On 12/28/2021 at 2:31 PM, Peace Frog said:

Rooting does not impact the outcome of games (unless you scream REALLY loud at the TV).

But for me?

Win.

4 5 6 won’t matter. 

Just root for Seattle to lose. REALLY loudly. 

No idea how many times I have yelled at the TV or thrown a Jet pillow at it since we stopped attending in person.

I respect others right to choose as they will but for me it is all about the W's.

In my opinion there is no guarantee in the draft - just ask the Cleveland or Detroit fans.  

 

[faba]

Show progress in our rookie QB and progress in being competitive in games two tough teams to finish the season lets see what we have

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, GKnight83 said:

No idea how many times I have yelled at the TV or thrown a Jet pillow at it since we stopped attending in person.

I respect others right to choose as they will but for me it is all about the W's.

In my opinion there is no guarantee in the draft - just ask the Cleveland or Detroit fans.  

 

A pillow? A pillow?

See, that’s not the effort that’s going to help win games. 

You need to commit to your rooting. 

You gotta start throwing bricks. 

[k-met57]

5 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Who are the superstars that Davis Mills is playing with?  Brandin Cooks is a good WR but he's bounced around the league enough that, 8 years into his career, he's with his 4th team (Saints, Pats, Rams, Texans).  

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MillDa02.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2021.htm

So Davis Mills is everything you want Zach Wilson to be?

 

 

ok.

[Larz]

You only have to go back 1 year to see how silly it is to declare a college kid the savior

remember Rosen/Darnold/ Mayfield/Allen/Jackson?

not only do the experts have no ability to predict a players career better than a monkey throwing darts at a street and smith article, the organization that is developing the player has a lot to do with their success 

 

root for wins baby 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

So Davis Mills is everything you want Zach Wilson to be?

ok.

That's what you took from my post?

 

[k-met57]

5 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

That's what you took from my post?

 

what was the point of your post? sorry i must have missed the point of it. In fact, lets reset...what was your "issue" with what Wilson did or didn't do Sunday in his "rookie of the week" performance?

[y2k8]

 

Drink

[Sperm Edwards]

On 12/29/2021 at 8:04 AM, Smashmouth said:

I love the way everyone knows there's no clear cut QB in the draft this year in a league that has no clue how to evaluate a QB . 

Was Joe Burrow the clear cut number 1 until fairly late in the "draft bullsh*t" we deal with every year ? Where was Herbert Drafted ?

I wanted out of that second pick and I wanted to draft Mac Jones but hey we're not experts because how could we be evaluating a freaking game !!! Its a game we have played and watched all our lives but there's experts who somehow know more yet fail at an alarming rate ! 

Its a ******* crap shoot and always will be a crapshoot. Even the great Ozzie Newsome screwed up a lot of drafts thing is he got the early ones correct and had HOF caliber players over a long period of time to cover for some of the crap he drafted later on. 

Wut? Where Herbert or Mac Jones were drafted is irrelevant to my point - if anything, it’s supportive of it - since they weren’t drafted in the top 2-3. If you want to argue picks lower than top 2-3 overall can still pan out, go have that straw man argument with your mirror, since no one else is suggesting otherwise.

It’s way too early to claim that this draft class has a QB prospect in it - specifically at the pick we’d have been sitting in - that’d get teams to offer 3 first round picks and then some. Further, there’d have to be at least 2 teams interested or they’d just trade with the team after us, which would cost less, since we’re clearly not drafting him. Also Detroit would have to 

There’s every likelihood it’ll be easier to trade down from #4-5 and pick up an extra 1st in 2023, from a team looking to move up for a QB rated like Herbert was, than it’ll be to trade down from position 2 or 3 where they’d have to get a team to fork over 2 (if not 3) 1st round picks or Douglas will be skewered for taking too little. 

[GKnight83]

22 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

A pillow? A pillow?

See, that’s not the effort that’s going to help win games. 

You need to commit to your rooting. 

You gotta start throwing bricks. 

Yes, of course.  How silly of me.  I should definitely be throwing bricks at my own big screen in my own family room.

I stand corrected 

[chirorob]

Prime example of why tanking doesn't really work that well.

So many #1 overall picks don't work out.

[FidelioJet]

Question for all y'all....

While I'm not going to look it up, just had a thought.

How much better would the Jets drafts have been if we won a couple of extra games and didn't take whatever DT was the "BPA" and ended up picking 10 slots lower and got one of the all-pro WR/TE/G or T LB that were taken in the middle of the draft.

 

[Jetluv58]

On 12/29/2021 at 5:46 PM, T0mShane said:

If you so much as turn on the television this weekend to watch the New York Jets lose by 30 points to a semi-retired Brady and Gronk, your fanhood is not in question, ever. This team sucks, it’s boring, and it’s unlikeable. If you’re still watching, you are a diehard fan. 
 

If you attend this game to root for the Jets, you are insane and should be in prison.

I like these Jets and I will watch. Happy New Year Mr. Shane!

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, chirorob said:

Prime example of why tanking doesn't really work that well.

So many #1 overall picks don't work out.

But quite a few teams have traded down from a high slot, particularly # 2, and had it work out nicely.  

[chirorob]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

But quite a few teams have traded down from a high slot, particularly # 2, and had it work out nicely.  

I LOVE trading down.   I am for it almost every year, every mock I do involves trade downs, getting multiple high picks the following year.

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, chirorob said:

I LOVE trading down.   I am for it almost every year, every mock I do involves trade downs, getting multiple high picks the following year.

Right.  And in most drafts it’s a lot easier to trade down from the 1-3 range than it is from, say, 6.  

That’s the part the anti-tank crowd always casually ignores.  As if the pro-tankers don’t realize you can, in fact, draft a bust at 1 or 2.  lol.

[Smashmouth]

22 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Wut? Where Herbert or Mac Jones were drafted is irrelevant to my point - if anything, it’s supportive of it - since they weren’t drafted in the top 2-3. If you want to argue picks lower than top 2-3 overall can still pan out, go have that straw man argument with your mirror, since no one else is suggesting otherwise.

It’s way too early to claim that this draft class has a QB prospect in it - specifically at the pick we’d have been sitting in - that’d get teams to offer 3 first round picks and then some. Further, there’d have to be at least 2 teams interested or they’d just trade with the team after us, which would cost less, since we’re clearly not drafting him. Also Detroit would have to 

There’s every likelihood it’ll be easier to trade down from #4-5 and pick up an extra 1st in 2023, from a team looking to move up for a QB rated like Herbert was, than it’ll be to trade down from position 2 or 3 where they’d have to get a team to fork over 2 (if not 3) 1st round picks or Douglas will be skewered for taking too little. 

I was not going against your post or your point Francis so calm down a bit. I should have made that clear. I was just making some points based on some saying there's no high rated QB in this years draft. There's always high rated QB's for good or bad reasoning and like I said most of the time they are force fed up the draft board while good QB's Like my examples move back. When you see QB's drafted late in the draft like 3rd round or better that excel in the NFL that means hundreds of teams failed to see the talent right in front of their face. The main point I was making is that teams GM's Coaches ..whatever are terrible at evaluating players because they do not know how they translate from college to the pro's. Most scouts GM's are all caught up in Arm Strength, Mobility, Speed or physical traits when they should be looking at how these players actually play football. 

I'm good with trading down to gain more picks but if there is a good QB prospect that falls into the second round I think we should pull the trigger because I do not think Zach is the answer or at the very least he needs a lot more time to develop.

[65 Toss Power Trap]

On 12/29/2021 at 4:01 PM, K_O_Brien said:

Zach seems a little nerdy and intense, so might not be everyone's cup of tea, so I'll leave him out, but overall this is a team that are easy enough to root for. 

I think he's hard to not root for. I won't lie, Zach on the surface seems like a boy band looking-over entitled-over hyped-exclusionary-prima donna.

But then:

 - He's a practice/film room junkie who puts in all the mental time and effort regardless of his "arm talent (compare Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, etc.)

 - Never has thrown anyone under the bus in an interview

 - Has the respect of his teammates

 - Is all in Jets (including buying one of the ugliest cars I've ever seen just to represent)

 - etc.

[GREAT WHITE HYPE]

I'll be watching the Rangers Sunday afternoon.