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TE, LB, PK— why has JD ignored these positions?


OtherwiseHappyinLife
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10 hours ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

JD was hired in June 2019. He had all the way until April 2020 until the draft to prepare, and college ball was being played when he was hired.

Plus, he was assistant GM in Philly, which means he was a talent evaluator. He should have had files on every college player from his previous job.

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joe might be the worst gm this team has ever had and his teams record indicates as much-it is amazing anybody supports this guy at this point. A person can be a fan and understand how bad Joe is as shown by wins and losses-his fanboys make up excuse after excuse for him but he is what his record says he is. Some how people act like each year is the first year he started getting paid-he is almost half way though his contract as a Jets employee and the team has not reached the level of performance since he was hired- Those that discount year one where he was getting paid can be so proud of two wins last year and 4 wins this year. 

The only good things Joe has done

1-Moore -sure hit that one but he missed on more wrs then he hit on

2-traded away players for draft capital 

His first draft is historically bad and it is not even 3 years out

his line is terrible

he mismanaged the kicker and back up qb positions

we have not had a viable tight end yet-he even re upped griffin

our defense is the worst in the league-we made Duke Johnson look like barry sanders

 

 

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9 hours ago, slimjasi said:

you need your first 3 draft picks to all be major contributors for a successful draft, IMO. Mims would need to turn it around for me to be close to satisfied with how that draft turned out 

Agreed. Becton hasn't been on the field enough to call him a bust yet. But I doubt he will ever be a reliable player. Real players don't take themselves out of games for minor injuries (not talking about the knee this year).

For a draft so deep in WR last year it is an embarrassment how bad Mims is. We should have either moved up to get one of the top receivers or passed on Becton and moved back and taken one.

Or taken Wirfs. A pro-bowl right tackle is better than a no-show left tackle.

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JD is trying to build the roster but is fighting against dead money and his own bad draft picks.  Giving himself the ability to cut a player quickly also means you lose that player after 1-3 years, thereby spinning his wheels. 

I think this is the off-season where the Jets go from bad to mediocre. 

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9 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Agreed. And honestly, even if Becton pans out, the 2020 draft isn’t good enough. 
 

you need your first 3 draft picks to all be major contributors for a successful draft, IMO. Mims would need to turn it around for me to be close to satisfied with how that draft turned out 

What percentage of drafts do you think actually meet this criteria? Genuinely curious.

Not picking on you, just thought it was an interesting comment. I don’t know the answer but would guess it’s quite low.

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Truly curious to hear thoughts on this!!  At a glance, it seems inexcusable that we didn’t use our salary cap space the past 2 years to significantly improve these vastly subpar positions (recognizing it’s a long shot to hit on immediate starters late in the draft; placekicker aside).  If you can’t find a FA kicker, then that’s when you draft one late.
I do understand other positions were prioritized but it’s not like we didn’t have cap space or flexibility to actually get legit NFL starters, even on incentive laden / short term deals that JD could back out of after 2 years.  That’s been his MO and I think his contract structuring has been smart.  For example, we can cut bait on Corey Davis after year 2.  Rankins after this year if we wanted to @ under $1M in dead money.  We would be wise to part ways with GVR and save $3.5M with ZERO dead money.  We could cut both Fant and McGovern with very manageable dead money but most would agree they are good players worth keeping around at their 2022 cap hits.
Instead of taking action, JD bet on Mosley, 2 late round converted safeties and a LB who lost his starting job with the Lions.  All a big reason why our run defense STINKS, indirectly hurting out pass rush / defense.  If you can’t stop the run, it’s very tough to rush the quarterback and cover; hence the domino effect we are witnessing today.  These same LBs also cannot cover TEs or RBs.
A TE is a rookie QBs best friend.  Hunter Henry has 9 TDs for goofy Mac Jones this year and it didn’t seem like we even made an attempt to lure him here (preemptively written for all those who would say who would come here?).  Not even an attempt. Heck, BB went out and got the top 2 TEs on the market.  And it’s not like JD was betting on Chris Herndon, who he rightfully shipped off to the Vikings for a quality pick.  Did he really think Kroft was the solution?  An excellent #2 If he can stay healthy but a reliable safety outlet for Wilson??
Lastly, Place kicker has been an unmitigated disaster.  My 9 year old last year said to me after 1 bad miss ‘****in Ficken’.  I wasn’t even upset, I agreed with him.  I still find myself muttering the same and will probably do so for the remainder of my life.
JD has proven to be smart with his contracts, shrewd and aggressive with his trades, and yet has failed to acquire quality starters at three key position groups spanning his time here.
Has he undervalued them, failed to understand the connections noted above, or allowed them to fail as expected preferring to live with the pain before fixing them through the draft over a multi year period?
Orrrrr .. there were other positions he valued more and was unable to fill them all in one offseason.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

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7 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

PK, that’s disingenuous, he’s brought in multiple kickers, because he tried to bring in cheap no name guys off the street and not pay a proven kicker.

I don't mind him trying to find a young one that can hang around. I actually like that we held on to Ammendola, hoping he can straighten out his misses while on PS.

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12 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

TE, I believe they wanted to give Herndon every opportunity to succeed before investing into the position. Douglas did bring in Kroft so didn't totally ignore the position.

LB, his first FA signing was Jarad Davis, and he's stuck with the Mosley contract for another year. I don't think he ignored it as much as we wanted to focus the bulk of our assets on offense.

PK, not sure how you can say he's ignored this position. He's brought in countless kickers.

Agreed, plus:

TE - Also, paid Yeboah a hefty sum to come here as n UFA

LB - spent two draft picks on Sherwood and Nasirildeen to develop as LBs

PK - Not sure what else JD could've done. Was there someone available that he did not pursue? Frankly, I think the coaching staff should have stuck with Amendola. His leg is really strong and his misses were not bad misses. Showing confidence in him might have helped his development.

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11 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Adam Gase hired Joe Douglas.  Adam Gase ran most of the 2020 draft and those were his picks.

Joe took full ownership starting with this past draft.  You cant grade him on adam gase's picks.

 

I thought you liked Joe Douglas?  What an absolute tool bag.  

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26 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Agreed, plus:

TE - Also, paid Yeboah a hefty sum to come here as n UFA

LB - spend two draft picks on Sherwood and Nasirildeen to develop as LBs

PK - Not sure what else JD could've done. Was there someone available that he did not pursue? Frankly, I think the coaching staff should have stuck with Amendola. His leg is really strong and his misses were not bad misses. Showing confidence in him might have helped his development.

Exactly. The only position here that I entered the season concerned about, and became more concerned about, is TE. But I feel that he worked closely with his new coaching staff last offseason thru the draft, and that there was enough of a consensus that they could get by without prioritizing it. I’d like to see them hit the position twice this offseason, once with a starter in free agency, and again with a potential starter in the draft. It’s the primary gaping hole on offense right now. 
 
I have no idea why people get hung up on PKs. Who cares? I feel like JD’s doing it exactly right by shuffling it thru cheap players hoping to find one that sticks. The team isn’t good right now. I don’t care if they lose a game or two due to a missed kick this year. If he hasn’t found a reliable kicker by 2023, he can spend a modest sum on a free agent. It’s a complete non-issue as far as I’m concerned. 

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37 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

 

TE - Also, paid Yeboah a hefty sum to come here as n UFA

 

this is what pisses me off. without sounding like DWC why are they not giving this kid a chance. they sign him to the active roster weeks ago and with all the injuries all he plays are ST. 

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3 minutes ago, doitny said:

this is what pisses me off. without sounding like DWC why are they not giving this kid a chance. they sign him to the active roster weeks ago and with all the injuries all he plays are ST. 

You know, I trust the coaching staff on this stuff ever since I was crowing about them not giving Mims more opportunities to play. It seems like they've got a pretty good handle on who has earned the right to play. And it may have to do with blocking. Yeboah was split out wide in college and blocking was something he was going to have to work on. The Jets as currently constituted do not have the luxury of a TE who is not an in-line blocker as well. 

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I don't know if he's ignored them, but he certainly hasn't prioritized them.

With TE he re-upped Ryan Griffin amid a great run he was having with Darnold in 2019, which was somewhat understandable. Guy got injured and hasn't really been the same since. Was probably hoping Herndon would show something. I'm sure it's a position we'll address this off-season as it's an important one in this scheme.

Off ball LB is just not a position I expect him to spend premium resources on, and we're locked to CJ Mosley anyway.

The kicker thing has been an unmitigated disaster from Day 1. 

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6 minutes ago, doitny said:

JD has just had the best Jets draft in 20 years...

By what metric?

Also, don't people almost always say "you can't judge a draft class in their first year, you have to give them time".

Why, when one or two show the merest hint of a little flash, does that rule suddenly go out the window?

As a reminder, this time last year a goodly portion of this very board thought Mims was a great draft success and future perennial all-pro.

I'd also say the 2009 Draft was better (Sanchez, Shonn Greene, Matt Slauson), the 2007 Draft was better (Revis, a possible GOAT DB, David Harris), the 2006 Draft was better (Brick, Mangold, Eric Smith, Brad Smith, Leon Washington), the 2000 Draft was better (Ellis, Abraham, Pennington, Coles).

This draft class has a long way to go as yet to exceed these other classes.  Hype aside, Wilson is no Sanchez (yet).  Carter's 600+ yard season is great, but he's no Shonn Greene (yet).  AVT is no Brick (yet).  Etc.

It looks like a descent class, sure, but lets not get ahead of ourselves as always, lol.

 

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11 minutes ago, doitny said:

this is what pisses me off. without sounding like DWC why are they not giving this kid a chance. they sign him to the active roster weeks ago and with all the injuries all he plays are ST. 

Maybe he's not as good as you think he is?

We saw alot of posts like yours about Mims early on, seems the staff was 100% correct on him.

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57 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Orrrrr .. there were other positions he valued more and was unable to fill them all in one offseason.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

Yep, I noted this as well but he has really had more than 1 off-season to improve and give the position a chance while he solidifies longer term through multiple draft cycles. 

I think it will be fair to be highly critical if he doesn’t aggressively pursue to get real starters this offseason.  We prob need 2 proven or high potential TEs and 2 LBs (FA + 2nd round draft).

And he finally needs to solve this place kicker position.

Its one thing to ‘fill’ positions with late round picks and questionable free agents.  He’s done that.  It’s another to come up with higher probability solutions and with our cap space and draft capital, now is the year. 

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

By what metric?

Also, don't people almost always say "you can't judge a draft class in their first year, you have to give them time".

Why, when one or two show the merest hint of a little flash, does that rule suddenly go out the window?

As a reminder, this time last year a goodly portion of this very board thought Mims was a great draft success and future perennial all-pro.

I'd also say the 2009 Draft was better (Sanchez, Shonn Greene, Matt Slauson), the 2007 Draft was better (Revis, a possible GOAT DB, David Harris), the 2006 Draft was better (Brick, Mangold, Eric Smith, Brad Smith, Leon Washington), the 2000 Draft was better (Ellis, Abraham, Pennington, Coles).

This draft class has a long way to go as yet to exceed these other classes.  Hype aside, Wilson is no Sanchez (yet).  Carter's 600+ yard season is great, but he's no Shonn Greene (yet).  AVT is no Brick (yet).  Etc.

It looks like a descent class, sure, but lets not get ahead of ourselves as always, lol.

 

So you are telling him to wait but then stating other draft classes were better?  I think it’s fair to say this class has a ton of promise but is TBD.  I do agree with you that those 2000, 2006, 2007 drafts are great benchmarks to aspire to.

Who thought Mims was going to be an all pro?  A good portion or is that an exaggeration?  Come on, that’s an exaggeration.  Admit it!  Lol.. jk

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8 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

PK, that’s disingenuous, he’s brought in multiple kickers, because he tried to bring in cheap no name guys off the street and not pay a proven kicker.

Ryan Succup got 12 mil a year to stay with the SB champs. now way JD was paying him more that that to come to a team who was going nowhere. besides you dont leave a TB12 team. good chance he gets another ring this year.

Matt Prater got 6.5 mil to go from Detroit to Arizona. how much more do you want to give him to chose us over Arizona? BTW he hit 76.7% of his FGs and missed 2 XPs. 

Amondola got 600k and made 68% and missed 1 XP.

not sure who you wanted him to get. what expensive not cheap guy was out there.

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2 minutes ago, slats said:

Have to see where this draft goes over the next couple years, but I’d put it in front of all of those right now except the four first rounder class of 2000 - which was over 20 years ago.

We'll see if you're more correct on this take than you were about Darnold or Mims in recent years.  

Personally, I'd take the Brick/Mangold class over this class without a seconds thought and twice on Sunday. 

But unlike some, I don't hold out the same level of hope for this class as legit players beyond AVT/Moore and maaaaaaye Carter in a "2020's RB by Committee" role.

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Sanchez/Greene/Slauson, seriously? 

Sanchez > Wilson

Greene = Carter

AVT probably > Slauson 

This class has E. Moore, who could be another Coles-level talent eventually, true.  

Forgive me if I don't get wet in the panties for our bevy of forced-to-start also-ran DB's like Echols or Carter 2.  Most teams they're depth guys or practice squadders. somehow for us they're starters.  And please, spare me the "rookie of the week" B.S.

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6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We'll see if you're more correct on this take than you were about Darnold or Mims in recent years.  

Personally, I'd take the Brick/Mangold class over this class without a seconds thought and twice on Sunday. 

But unlike some, I don't hold out the same level of hope for this class as legit players beyond AVT/Moore and maaaaaaye Carter in a "2020's RB by Committee" role.

Sanchez > Wilson

Greene = Carter

AVT probably > Slauson 

This class has E. Moore, who could be another Coles-level talent eventually, true.  

Forgive me if I don't get wet in the panties for our bevy of forced-to-start also-ran DB's like Echols or Carter 2.  Most teams they're depth guys or practice squadders. somehow for us they're starters.  And please, spare me the "rookie of the week" B.S.

Is this mathematical law that Sanchez > Wilson?  

Or should we wait on that?  You have the word probably in AVT but the others seem definitive.

Kind of goes against your argument.. and do you really wear panties?  That’s kind of hot!!
 

 

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We'll see if you're more correct on this take than you were about Darnold or Mims in recent years.  

Mims is disappointing but, let’s be clear on the record: I didn’t want to draft Darnold and you know this - you used one of my many anti-Darnold pre-draft posts as your signature for a stretch. I root for the players on the team and try to stay away from negativity in general. So I was rooting for Darnold. That’s it. I’m rooting for Wilson now. 

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Because other than TE being an offensive position his point of emphasis has been on offense.  Just like everyone wanted this off-season. What happened to “JD needs to draft OL, OL, OL, OL & OL?    OL, WR were available so he took them.  Have to give it more than one or two offseason to fill all the holes hes had to fill

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11 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Is this mathematical law that Sanchez > Wilson?  

Nope, a shorthand generalization only.

11 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Or should we wait on that?

Absolutely we should.  Wilson could always come out next year and blow us all away.  Not laying any bets on that, but it's possible.

11 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

 You have the word probably in AVT but the others seem definitive.

I have faith AVT, barring injuries or the like, will be very good.  Perhaps misplaced, we'll see.  

11 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Kind of goes against your argument.. and do you really wear panties?  That’s kind of hot!!

Lol.

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12 minutes ago, slats said:

Mims is disappointing

Indeed, I had hoped on this one you were right and I was wrong. 

We're both disappointed now.  It's almost amazing how bad he's been, worse than I could have ever expected at my most cynical.

I'll pass on our usual exchange re: past QB's today.  If you honestly think you weren't wrong about Darnold (or Geno before him), great.

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11 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Adam Gase was the football man of florham park.  Do you honestly think he didnt have major influence on a 1st time GMs draft picks?

JD had FO experience before so it wasn't like he was a total newbie and didn't understand the draft process. I think most coaches are somewhat involved in the decision making process to a degree anyway. You make it seem like he was sitting in the GM seat and had the final say which just isn't true. JD has had 1 bad draft and 1 good one so far. This upcoming draft is critical to the future success of this team with 4 picks in the top 40. Lets hope he makes the right decisions. 

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20 minutes ago, Warfish said:

By what metric?

Also, don't people almost always say "you can't judge a draft class in their first year, you have to give them time".

Why, when one or two show the merest hint of a little flash, does that rule suddenly go out the window?

As a reminder, this time last year a goodly portion of this very board thought Mims was a great draft success and future perennial all-pro.

I'd also say the 2009 Draft was better (Sanchez, Shonn Greene, Matt Slauson), the 2007 Draft was better (Revis, a possible GOAT DB, David Harris), the 2006 Draft was better (Brick, Mangold, Eric Smith, Brad Smith, Leon Washington), the 2000 Draft was better (Ellis, Abraham, Pennington, Coles).

This draft class has a long way to go as yet to exceed these other classes.  Hype aside, Wilson is no Sanchez (yet).  Carter's 600+ yard season is great, but he's no Shonn Greene (yet).  AVT is no Brick (yet).  Etc.

It looks like a descent class, sure, but lets not get ahead of ourselves as always, lol.

 

your right, we cant judge a draft for a few years but nobody on this board does it.

we hear right now that most think Wilson is a bust. i have been hearing early in the season about how bad the 21 class was cause nobody started right out of the gate with all pro numbers. so if people can tell me something is bad or doesnt look good i can say the opposite.

my metric? i am looking at drafts that had at least 4 good guys that made a difference here like i see with these 4.

i say 4. AVT, MC1, MC2 and Moore. i am not counting Wilson cause he has not looked good like these guys have. 

so 2009 only had 3. 2007 had 2.  

2006. yes  Brick and Mangold were great . Leon was a bit player who mostly returned kicks. Eric Smith was good. but Brad was a backup QB who catch some passes, ran some. he really was just a bit player like Leon

Moore and MC1 are not bit players. at least not yet.

now 2000 was a very good draft. like you said it gave us 4 good players. that was the last draft i was referring too.

you seam like a reasonable guy. i am too. but thats not this board. they get ahead of themselves every day. so the only way to argue with them is to play their game. and in 2 weeks when the season ends where all going to give our reviews as to the job JD did, well as of right now he did a good job drafting in 2021. best since 2000. even if you say 2009 thats 12 years ago. i dont think it would be wise to fire him after having our best draft class in 12 years or 20 for me.

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2 hours ago, derp said:

What percentage of drafts do you think actually meet this criteria? Genuinely curious.

Not picking on you, just thought it was an interesting comment. I don’t know the answer but would guess it’s quite low.

Good point. 
 

It’s definitely low for the average team, but that’s the thing - we are coming from the bottom of the league and trying to build a winner. We aren’t at the top or even middle of the league right now.

 

This past draft - we got Wilson, AVT, Moore, Carter, Carter 2, Echols, Pinnock (?). At least 4 major contributors on that list. IMO, we need next year’s draft to be close to this and then we might be onto something. 

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The roster was a dumpster fire with many bloated contracts that forced a more deliberate and draft oriented approach.  I thought JD did a decent job trying to fill holes this past season.  The OL looks vastly improved and he added skill positions to a team that  had zero playmakers.  Lol, Frank Gore.

At TE, he was hoping for more from Griffen  and added Kroft and Yeboah.  Could he have done better?  Yes, I would have loved Hunter Henry in G&W but not sure we could have paid enough to get him to choose New York over New England and JD just plays the value game with contracts.  I'd argue he did address the position, just that the outcomes were not as hoped.

At LB, he tried/hoped Davis would turn into some value after miscast in Detroit's 3-4 system.  More hope than reality.  He also took a couple of fliers on two converted safeties.  Neither made a strong, positive impression and obviously more needs done for this position group.  I throw him some props for bringing in Quincy Williams who at least brings energy and passion to the position.

PK?  lol.  

Overall, he had a decent year acquiring talent.  The next draft/offseason should tell us a lot about JD and his ability to build a competitive roster.

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33 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Good point. 
 

It’s definitely low for the average team, but that’s the thing - we are coming from the bottom of the league and trying to build a winner. We aren’t at the top or even middle of the league right now.

 

This past draft - we got Wilson, AVT, Moore, Carter, Carter 2, Echols, Pinnock (?). At least 4 major contributors on that list. IMO, we need next year’s draft to be close to this and then we might be onto something. 

I agree that next year’s draft needs to be like last year’s to build any sort of momentum.

Poked through 2020 for kicks and I think there was one clear cut team that hit the first three pick criteria (Cincy), a few others that at least you could argue, and a whole lot of teams that were easy to eliminate. Injuries, off field, lack of performance. Hit rates on draft picks are always lower than we give them credit for. It’s why the best franchises accumulate picks - quantity just gives more chances to hit on players.

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14 minutes ago, derp said:

I agree that next year’s draft needs to be like last year’s to build any sort of momentum.

Poked through 2020 for kicks and I think there was one clear cut team that hit the first three pick criteria (Cincy), a few others that at least you could argue, and a whole lot of teams that were easy to eliminate. Injuries, off field, lack of performance. Hit rates on draft picks are always lower than we give them credit for. It’s why the best franchises accumulate picks - quantity just gives more chances to hit on players.

Agreed

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6 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

He inherited a team that pretty much needed talent at every position. It’s takes a few off seasons to address all that was needed.

That's what I was going to post.

He has spend draft capital and money on WR, with mixed results, but he has put effort into improving that area.  Same with O Line trying to improve it.  Drafted a QB.

Before the draft last year, everyone was saying, "Draft a young QB, spend as much as possible to help him on offense."   Now, people say, "Why didn't you help the defense?"

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14 hours ago, undertow said:

Who was on the books from the Mike McCagnan era that prevented us from signing players this past off season?  Didn't we have the most cap space in the league?

 

14 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Trumaine Johnson, LeVeon Bell, Quincy Enunwa, Sam Darnold, Kelechi Osemele, Chris Herndon, and Henry Anderson. 

Okay...but other than them...

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