TE, LB, PK— why has JD ignored these positions?

[TheClashFan]

JD's 2020 draft is looking pretty bad right now.  2021 looks much better and could be tremendous if ZW pans out.  Both of those looks could change...you probably need a full 3 years to properly evaluate.

Whatever, 2022 is THE year for JD.  As of right now, the Jets have 4 picks in the first 38. He's got to nail this draft, at least 3 very good to excellent starters would be nice (tough to expect all 4 will excel).

Even with a good 2022 draft, he's also got to evaluate Saleh after next season.  Hold him or fold him.

 

 

[Joe W. Namath]

1 hour ago, RevisIsland610 said:

JD had FO experience before so it wasn't like he was a total newbie and didn't understand the draft process. I think most coaches are somewhat involved in the decision making process to a degree anyway. You make it seem like he was sitting in the GM seat and had the final say which just isn't true. JD has had 1 bad draft and 1 good one so far. This upcoming draft is critical to the future success of this team with 4 picks in the top 40. Lets hope he makes the right decisions. 

This draft is an absolute layup.  We are setup to complete the rebuild of this offense.

pick 4; best olineman in the draft (Neal or Cross)

pick 6: best wr in the draft (Burkes, Wilson, Williams)

pick 35: best tight end in the draft (McBride, Wydermyer)

pick 38: best rb in the draft (Spiller, Hall)

Then we still have a ton of picks to address the D.  

 

[Warfish]

25 minutes ago, chirorob said:

That's what I was going to post.

He has spend draft capital and money on WR, with mixed results, but he has put effort into improving that area.  Same with O Line trying to improve it.  Drafted a QB.

Before the draft last year, everyone was saying, "Draft a young QB, spend as much as possible to help him on offense."   Now, people say, "Why didn't you help the defense?"

I don't say that.

Probably because JD did try to help the Defense.

We hired a well-respected Defensive Head Coach.

We signed the one of the best pass-rushing Edges on the market in Lawson.

We got back our previous big $$ defensive signing, Mosely.

We drafted 6 strait defensive guys in the late rounds.

It's just that most of these moves simply didn't work out, Saleh didn't improve the D, Lawson guy hurt, Mosely isn't the old Mosely, and the draft picks are hit or miss mostly, as befits 5th/6th rounders generally.

[kevinc855]

I don’t care what this crowD says

JD isnt it that great of a GM. He’s get good value in trades but has mixed results on drafting. His FA is mostly Subpar. He will get 2022 to prove his “plan” but I fail to see where this guy is a rockstar gm or anything. He’s not terrible but to me seems like JAG GM

[extmenace]

Question for you all. Think about all the free agents the jets have signed over the last 5-10 years….

ok, now try to think of players who signed free agent contracts with the jets and went on to sign another big contract with the jets and / or another team.

Off the top of my head, I can’t think of a single player. The only player I can really think of in general is maybe Demario Davis but we traded for him and then we didn’t resign him.  I’m sure there are a few but my point is, this is not an ideal place for good free agents to sign. The agents know this, the players know this, the jets know this. It’s practically been proven that if you sign here, the likihood of landing another significant contract is low. 
 

I didn’t read every post in this thread but for those who want us to get guys in free agency…it’s going to be difficult to land those A and B class free agents. JD, in many ways, is handicapped because of the team he works for. For the most part, if the money is close, it’s a bad business decision to sign here. Our only real hope is to land players through the draft. If this team can build right, free agents may be more likely to gamble in the future.  as this team is now, it’s career suicide for these high impact free agents to sign here unless the money is so much higher than the other offers that they have no choice to take the risk.

 

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, extmenace said:

Question for you all. Think about all the free agents the jets have signed over the last 5-10 years….

ok, now try to think of players who signed free agent contracts with the jets and went on to sign another big contract with the jets and / or another team.

Off the top of my head, I can’t think of a single player. The only player I can really think of in general is maybe Demario Davis but we traded for him and then we didn’t resign him.  I’m sure there are a few but my point is, this is not an ideal place for good free agents to sign. The agents know this, the players know this, the jets know this. It’s practically been proven that if you sign here, the likihood of landing another significant contract is low. 
 

I didn’t read every post in this thread but for those who want us to get guys in free agency…it’s going to be difficult to land those A and B class free agents. For the most part, if the money is close, it’s a bad business decision to sign here. Our only real hope is to land players through the draft. If this team can build right, free agents may be more likely to gamble in the future.  as this team is now, it’s career suicide for these high impact free agents to sign here unless the money is so much higher than the other offers that they have no choice to take the risk.

 

There have been a few.  Beachum, McClendon, Bridgewater, Henry Anderson come to mind.

I don't think signing with the Jets hurts their ability to sign another contract.  I think we just had a number of big name FAs who came here thinking they could mail it in for a season or two for big money and then cash in again somewhere else.  That doesn't work in the NFL but does Trumaine Johnson care about that?  Probably not so much.  

I think the answer is knowing that the guys you sign love the game and will keep their competitive fire after the big money hits their account.  

[RevisIsland610]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This draft is an absolute layup.  We are setup to complete the rebuild of this offense.

pick 4; best olineman in the draft (Neal or Cross)

pick 6: best wr in the draft (Burkes, Wilson, Williams)

pick 35: best tight end in the draft (McBride, Wydermyer)

pick 38: best rb in the draft (Spiller, Hall)

Then we still have a ton of picks to address the D.  

 

Layup my ass. This D is the worst in the league by a country mile and on pace to give up 500 points and you want to use the top 4 picks on offense after they did that last year? LOL. They had better use 1 or 2 of their top picks on defense especially if a top edge guy is available. 

[JohnnyLV]

16 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

We are building this through the draft.  We will take the best tight end in the draft this year.

Listen to what the gm and coach are telling you and you wont have to open threads like this.  Winning games is not the #1 priority for this franchise.  Building through the draft is.

Winning moves up on the totem pole next year is is back to being the #1 priority starting 2023.

 

Tough to guarantee we get the best TE unless we slightly overdraft him.

[jetstream23]

[jetstream23]

4 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Tough to guarantee we get the best TE unless we slightly overdraft him.

And so much for targeting TE in free agency.... the Patriots grabbed not one, but both of the top two free agents last year.  They were willing to overpay because they were drafting a young rookie QB and wanted to support his development.

[Joe W. Namath]

9 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Tough to guarantee we get the best TE unless we slightly overdraft him.

I dont think taking a te w/ one of our 2nd rnd picks would be an overdraft.  All mocks i have seen have mcbride and wydermyer as 2nd round picks.

If we go oline, wr, te and rb w/ our 1st 4 picks then spend the next 7 picks on D….Wow!!!!

[kmnj]

lol people talking about joe's picks to be much better than they are-Joe's team last year won 2 games-this year 4 with a longer season-you can book it they are losing the last two 

our roster is bad as shown by our record-the team under Gase who was terrible was better as showed by our record not hopes and dreams

Right now Joe's record is terrible that is a fact and if you want to blame the coaches and not Joe well Joe brought in the coaches too

I cant wait for the excuses next year when the team is at the basement of the AFC east yet again-

 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

7 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I dont think taking a te w/ one of our 2nd rnd picks would be an overdraft.  All mocks i have seen have mcbride and wydermyer as 2nd round picks.

If we go oline, wr, te and rb w/ our 1st 4 picks then spend the next 7 picks on D….Wow!!!!

Love your enthusiasm & humor, and agree for the most part with your thoughts on JD BUT drafting a RB in round 2 would be pretty foolish given how bad our defense is, the early success of Michael Carter, and the opportunity to get good RBs later as the position has been devalued.

I'd counter with Edge, OL or WR, TE, & LB.  If JD/Saleh believe E Moore is an outside receiver (where he has been used more) and are convinced Corey Davis will have a bounce back year, then OL over WR.  Outside of Edge, the other positions will also depend on our ability to address through FA where we should add Safety to the list.  Still think we need 2 TEs and 2 LBs so FA alone will not solve but might shake up the sequencing of picks.

[Prodigal Syndicate]

17 hours ago, undertow said:

Who was on the books from the Mike McCagnan era that prevented us from signing players this past off season?  Didn't we have the most cap space in the league?

Just Davis and JFM contracts next season are being paid more than that and they hardly seem worth it.

[doitny]

2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This draft is an absolute layup.  We are setup to complete the rebuild of this offense.

pick 4; best olineman in the draft (Neal or Cross)

pick 6: best wr in the draft (Burkes, Wilson, Williams)

pick 35: best tight end in the draft (McBride, Wydermyer)

pick 38: best rb in the draft (Spiller, Hall)

Then we still have a ton of picks to address the D.  

 

this has to be the worst draft mock i have seen. we have a defense that will break records for being bad and you want to ignore it with the 1st 4 picks? 

and then OL with the 4th pick when the line is our best position?

sorry Joe but next year is not a mulligan. we got to win at least 7-8 games. he has to address the holes on defense and WR/TE 

[Joe W. Namath]

2 minutes ago, doitny said:

this has to be the worst draft mock i have seen. we have a defense that will break records for being bad and you want to ignore it with the 1st 4 picks? 

and then OL with the 4th pick when the line is our best position?

sorry Joe but next year is not a mulligan. we got to win at least 7-8 games. he has to address the holes on defense and WR/TE 

We will address the D in free agency and in rounds 4-7 in the draft.  

Have to complete the rebuild of the offense before we can use high draft picks on D.

[Bleedin Green]

6 hours ago, slats said:

I have no idea why people get hung up on PKs. Who cares? I feel like JD’s doing it exactly right by shuffling it thru cheap players hoping to find one that sticks. The team isn’t good right now. I don’t care if they lose a game or two due to a missed kick this year. If he hasn’t found a reliable kicker by 2023, he can spend a modest sum on a free agent. It’s a complete non-issue as far as I’m concerned. 

The problem isn't the general approach, as many other teams take that as well with kickers, it's just that JD is by far the most laughably incompetent at it through the entirety of the NFL.  This is the guy who gets credit for now having 2 different kickers who finished having missed every single kick attempt of their professional careers.

In the grand scheme of things, it's certainly not any major point of consideration if he can prove himself at the rest of his job, but he still clearly has no clue what he's looking at when evaluating the position.  There have been a long list of scrap heap pick-ups over the past 3 years that have wildly outperformed everyone of JD's choosing, so the spending excuse is pretty irrelevant, he just so happens to be worse than everyone else at it.

If he turns out to be a good-to-great at evaluations of all the other positions, we'll all learn to live with it, but there's still a long way to go for the rest of that.

[Bleedin Green]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

By what metric?

Also, don't people almost always say "you can't judge a draft class in their first year, you have to give them time".

Why, when one or two show the merest hint of a little flash, does that rule suddenly go out the window?

As a reminder, this time last year a goodly portion of this very board thought Mims was a great draft success and future perennial all-pro.

I'd also say the 2009 Draft was better (Sanchez, Shonn Greene, Matt Slauson), the 2007 Draft was better (Revis, a possible GOAT DB, David Harris), the 2006 Draft was better (Brick, Mangold, Eric Smith, Brad Smith, Leon Washington), the 2000 Draft was better (Ellis, Abraham, Pennington, Coles).

This draft class has a long way to go as yet to exceed these other classes.  Hype aside, Wilson is no Sanchez (yet).  Carter's 600+ yard season is great, but he's no Shonn Greene (yet).  AVT is no Brick (yet).  Etc.

It looks like a descent class, sure, but lets not get ahead of ourselves as always, lol.

 

It's the same thing every year.  Before Mims, it was Herndon who was finally the answer for Jets at TE.  All it takes is a rookie looking anything other than 100% incompetent, and they're immediately graded on a massive rookie curve, with baseless assumptions of how great that will project out long-term.

Meanwhile, there are plenty of examples throughout the history of this team, and the entire league, where there are also just many players who are exactly what you see out of them their rookie year.  Last year's class was getting major hype during the season as well, and now the entire thing is looking like an unmitigated disaster outside of Hall.

It's of course better to see some potential out of a draft class in their rookie years than not, but there's still a lot more that needs to come from these guys in the future, otherwise there's little praise this class will be getting a few years from now.

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

SIGN THIS BEAST

[TuscanyTile2]

7 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

I don’t care what this crowD says

JD isnt it that great of a GM. He’s get good value in trades but has mixed results on drafting. His FA is mostly Subpar. He will get 2022 to prove his “plan” but I fail to see where this guy is a rockstar gm or anything. He’s not terrible but to me seems like JAG GM

That would be a huge improvement for us considering recent history.  Though I still am optimistic (maybe just a gut feeling) that JD is going to be a good one when all is said and done.  

[xJayce]

11 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

I don’t care what this crowD says

JD isnt it that great of a GM. He’s get good value in trades but has mixed results on drafting. His FA is mostly Subpar. He will get 2022 to prove his “plan” but I fail to see where this guy is a rockstar gm or anything. He’s not terrible but to me seems like JAG GM

If he's a JAG, that's already a huge step up from his predecessors!

[xJayce]

On 12/29/2021 at 9:20 PM, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Truly curious to hear thoughts on this!!  At a glance, it seems inexcusable that we didn’t use our salary cap space the past 2 years to significantly improve these vastly subpar positions

We did spend to the cap this year. There's still about 25M in dead previous contracts:

• Trumaine Johnson$8,000,000
• Sam Darnold$5,019,581
• Le'Veon Bell$4,000,000
• Quincy Enunwa$3,600,000
• Kelechi Osemele$3,128,824
• Christopher Herndon IV$1,558,792
• Henry Anderson$1,333,334

I get that it would be great to be able to fill every single hole on the team, just not sure how that's feasible. Money was invested to shore up the D, and premium picks went to help the O.

[Hex]

12 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This draft is an absolute layup.  We are setup to complete the rebuild of this offense.

pick 4; best olineman in the draft (Neal or Cross)

pick 6: best wr in the draft (Burkes, Wilson, Williams)

pick 35: best tight end in the draft (McBride, Wydermyer)

pick 38: best rb in the draft (Spiller, Hall)

Then we still have a ton of picks to address the D.  

 

RB is probably not a huge need for us. We don't need another best RB in the draft, but a solid one in later rounds would be nice. I would go with LB at 38

[BornJetsFan1983]

On 12/29/2021 at 6:20 PM, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Truly curious to hear thoughts on this!!  At a glance, it seems inexcusable that we didn’t use our salary cap space the past 2 years to significantly improve these vastly subpar positions (recognizing it’s a long shot to hit on immediate starters late in the draft; placekicker aside).  If you can’t find a FA kicker, then that’s when you draft one late.

I do understand other positions were prioritized but it’s not like we didn’t have cap space or flexibility to actually get legit NFL starters, even on incentive laden / short term deals that JD could back out of after 2 years.  That’s been his MO and I think his contract structuring has been smart.  For example, we can cut bait on Corey Davis after year 2.  Rankins after this year if we wanted to @ under $1M in dead money.  We would be wise to part ways with GVR and save $3.5M with ZERO dead money.  We could cut both Fant and McGovern with very manageable dead money but most would agree they are good players worth keeping around at their 2022 cap hits.

Instead of taking action, JD bet on Mosley, 2 late round converted safeties and a LB who lost his starting job with the Lions.  All a big reason why our run defense STINKS, indirectly hurting out pass rush / defense.  If you can’t stop the run, it’s very tough to rush the quarterback and cover; hence the domino effect we are witnessing today.  These same LBs also cannot cover TEs or RBs.

A TE is a rookie QBs best friend.  Hunter Henry has 9 TDs for goofy Mac Jones this year and it didn’t seem like we even made an attempt to lure him here (preemptively written for all those who would say who would come here?).  Not even an attempt. Heck, BB went out and got the top 2 TEs on the market.  And it’s not like JD was betting on Chris Herndon, who he rightfully shipped off to the Vikings for a quality pick.  Did he really think Kroft was the solution?  An excellent #2 If he can stay healthy but a reliable safety outlet for Wilson??

Lastly, Place kicker has been an unmitigated disaster.  My 9 year old last year said to me after 1 bad miss ‘****in Ficken’.  I wasn’t even upset, I agreed with him.  I still find myself muttering the same and will probably do so for the remainder of my life.

JD has proven to be smart with his contracts, shrewd and aggressive with his trades, and yet has failed to acquire quality starters at three key position groups spanning his time here.

Has he undervalued them, failed to understand the connections noted above, or allowed them to fail as expected preferring to live with the pain before fixing them through the draft over a multi year period?

Look I don't entirely disagree with you100 percent but saying a TE is your rookies best friend then cite Hunter Henry who literally will catch 1 ball for a TD isn't really some great safety valve. I get what you are trying to say or case you are trying to make but I mean just looking at our own team cater filled that roll. Also our replacement qbs also showed our offense can put up 30 plus with no TE at all. Not that that is what we want - lack of TE involvement but it just spurs your whole take

[Sperm Edwards]

17 hours ago, Warfish said:

I don't say that.

Probably because JD did try to help the Defense.

We hired a well-respected Defensive Head Coach.

We signed the one of the best pass-rushing Edges on the market in Lawson.

We got back our previous big $$ defensive signing, Mosely.

We drafted 6 strait defensive guys in the late rounds.

It's just that most of these moves simply didn't work out, Saleh didn't improve the D, Lawson guy hurt, Mosely isn't the old Mosely, and the draft picks are hit or miss mostly, as befits 5th/6th rounders generally.

The well-respected defensive HC hired a DC who wasn’t so well-respected. Besides, the purported attraction in Saleh wasn’t that he’d make the defense great but rather that he was supposed to be more of a CEO type not a DC with a HC title who lets the OC become the HC of half the team in all but name. I’m pretty unimpressed with Saleh myself, but I guess it’s still early yet.

How does Mosley returning qualify as a defense-improving effort made by Douglas? Putting aside that he sucks, if anything his presence (and disproportionate cap allocation) stunted any serious efforts to improve the position.

The 5th + 6th round secondary is a draft strategy that presumes a 10-15% success rate requires that many picks to find one good starter, in lieu of signing any worthwhile veterans. Those aren’t typically hit or miss; everyone knows they’re mostly miss, and is why all 6 of those picks combined aren’t worth a day-2 pick (except maybe if there are enough round 3 comp picks: all 6 together had roughly the draft pick value of pick #98 plus nothing more). Put that way it’s hardly the big investment it sounds like when mentioning the quantity of picks.

C.Lawson was a serious acquisition. I’m not faulting Douglas for the injury. It’s a rough sport & it happens sometimes, unfortunately. Lawson had some notable injury history but so had others early-on in their careers. He’d played every game the prior season and was a rising player not one who seemed to be resting on prior accomplishments. Sucks the way it turned out, but anyone can get injured. 

The rest were failed-elsewhere shots in the dark, hoping to get lucky on the likes of guys whose teams were happy to move on without them, like Rankins & Shaq Lawson. Or at least hope one of them panned out. None did; they all stink.

In 2022 the efforts will have to be more realistic than 2021’s unserious fingers-crossed method. 

[GKnight83]

I think his thought process has been clear - younger players with good attitudes. 

I also see him not wanting to overpay for short term rentals when it is obvious the Jets will not complete for another couple years.

[Jethead]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The well-respected defensive HC hired a DC who wasn’t so well-respected. Besides, the purported attraction in Saleh wasn’t that he’d make the defense great but rather that he was supposed to be more of a CEO type not a DC with a HC title who lets the OC become the HC of half the team in all but name. I’m pretty unimpressed with Saleh myself, but I guess it’s still early yet.

How does Mosley returning qualify as a defense-improving effort made by Douglas? Putting aside that he sucks, if anything his presence (and disproportionate cap allocation) stunted any serious efforts to improve the position.

The 5th + 6th round secondary is a draft strategy that presumes a 10-15% success rate requires that many picks to find one good starter, in lieu of signing any worthwhile veterans. Those aren’t typically hit or miss; everyone knows they’re mostly miss, and is why all 6 of those picks combined aren’t worth a day-2 pick (except maybe if there are enough round 3 comp picks: all 6 together had roughly the draft pick value of pick #98 plus nothing more). Put that way it’s hardly the big investment it sounds like when mentioning the quantity of picks.

C.Lawson was a serious acquisition. I’m not faulting Douglas for the injury. It’s a rough sport & it happens sometimes, unfortunately. Lawson had some notable injury history but so had others early-on in their careers. He’d played every game the prior season and was a rising player not one who seemed to be resting on prior accomplishments. Sucks the way it turned out, but anyone can get injured. 

The rest were failed-elsewhere shots in the dark, hoping to get lucky on the likes of guys whose teams were happy to move on without them, like Rankins & Shaq Lawson. Or at least hope one of them panned out. None did; they all stink.

In 2022 the efforts will have to be more realistic than 2021’s unserious fingers-crossed method. 

Hindsight is 20/20. I thought Rankins, Davis and Joyner were all good signings. For different reasons all have disappointed but the reasoning behind their signing was solid. I still have confidence in JD.

[Sperm Edwards]

21 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Hindsight is 20/20. I thought Rankins, Davis and Joyner were all good signings. For different reasons all have disappointed but the reasoning behind their signing was solid. I still have confidence in JD.

I didn’t suggest there was no reasoning behind their signings. I suggested they aren’t evidence of serious efforts to put a good defense on the field. They were gambles, and without better players on the field to help hide them, you see how bad they actually are. Look how badly exposed Mosley is this year (among Jets fans; not among announcers who can’t see past tackle quantities). 

These guys weren’t all available for low-end starter money because they’re actually high-end starters who secretly wanted to play for the Jets so badly they agreed to temporary 70% pay cuts. 

• Rankins ($5.5MM x 2 yrs) hasn’t been a starter since the 2018 season ended. 
• Davis ($5.5MM x 1 yr) was a shot in the dark hope that he sucked because he was on Detroit. In reality he was never good in the NFL. I mean, I’m sure he’s had a good game here or there, but on balance he’s been a below-average starter since getting drafted. Hence even the friggin’ Lions gave up on him.
• Joyner ($3MM x 1 yr) like Rankins was most recently a good/reliable starter in 2018. The Jets are his 4th team in 4 seasons, and DBs don’t typically get career resurgences in their age-31 seasons. As it is he barely suited up more than you did this year, unless we’re counting birthday suits.

So I go back to what I said: these were not serious high-probability starters brought in. Individually any can be rationalized but collectively they were low cost, low probability starters with hopes we might get lucky on one and also might be able to tread water for a year with one or both others. 

[CanadaSteve]

On 12/29/2021 at 9:44 PM, Prodigal Syndicate said:

JD was hired in June 2019. He had all the way until April 2020 until the draft to prepare, and college ball was being played when he was hired.

Yeah....This has been talked about ad nauseam.  Rookie GM with no possibility of meeting any of the players you are drafting.  Not his fault, not Woody's fault, not anybody's fault.  Just rotten luck.  

[CanadaSteve]

19 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I didn’t suggest there was no reasoning behind their signings. I suggested they aren’t evidence of serious efforts to put a good defense on the field. They were gambles, and without better players on the field to help hide them, you see how bad they actually are. Look how badly exposed Mosley is this year (among Jets fans; not among announcers who can’t see past tackle quantities). 

These guys weren’t all available for low-end starter money because they’re actually high-end starters who secretly wanted to play for the Jets so badly they agreed to temporary 70% pay cuts. 

• Rankins ($5.5MM x 2 yrs) hasn’t been a starter since the 2018 season ended. 
• Davis ($5.5MM x 1 yr) was a shot in the dark hope that he sucked because he was on Detroit. In reality he was never good in the NFL. I mean, I’m sure he’s had a good game here or there, but on balance he’s been a below-average starter since getting drafted. Hence even the friggin’ Lions gave up on him.
• Joyner ($3MM x 1 yr) like Rankins was most recently a good/reliable starter in 2018. The Jets are his 4th team in 4 seasons, and DBs don’t typically get career resurgences in their age-31 seasons. As it is he barely suited up more than you did this year, unless we’re counting birthday suits.

So I go back to what I said: these were not serious high-probability starters brought in. Individually any can be rationalized but collectively they were low cost, low probability starters with hopes we might get lucky on one and also might be able to tread water for a year with one or both others. 

Yup...I would agree with that.  When you have dozens of holes to fill, and only so much money and draft picks, you plug them with low cost-high hopes types of picks.  If we had a defence more like Tampa's, signing Rankins would have been great depth.  Asking him to start now?  Is what it is.

This defence will get an influx of talent over the next two drafts.  Its amazing how bad a team can get when a) you don't draft well for 10 years and b ) you sign high-priced over-valued free agents for 10 years. 

[Sperm Edwards]

59 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Yup...I would agree with that.  When you have dozens of holes to fill, and only so much money and draft picks, you plug them with low cost-high hopes types of picks.  If we had a defence more like Tampa's, signing Rankins would have been great depth.  Asking him to start now?  Is what it is.

This defence will get an influx of talent over the next two drafts.  Its amazing how bad a team can get when a) you don't draft well for 10 years and b ) you sign high-priced over-valued free agents for 10 years. 

I'm not badly pointing a finger at him for it either, but yeah that's what those signings were. Lawson was a serious/legit signing and, well, that's the way that one went this year. Sucks he got sidelined before the season even began, but hopefully he bounces back.

The other thing with Rankins is it looks like $1.5MM of his $5.5MM 2022 salary might be injury-guaranteed, so if they're leaning towards dumping him after the season they may want to shut him down early. I'd hate to think of a scenario where he gets injured before this season ends, at this point, and they paid him $1.5MM just to play part-time and still get injured in game 17. 

[Warfish]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The well-respected defensive HC hired a DC who wasn’t so well-respected.

i.e. I said "It's just that most of these moves simply didn't work out".

Quote

Besides, the purported attraction in Saleh wasn’t that he’d make the defense great but rather that he was supposed to be more of a CEO type not a DC with a HC title who lets the OC become the HC of half the team in all but name.

Regardless, a DC Head Coach would/should be expected to be "better" at Defense than a pure OC Head Coach was.

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I’m pretty unimpressed with Saleh myself, but I guess it’s still early yet.

Agreed.

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How does Mosley returning qualify as a defense-improving effort made by Douglas?

We didn't have him.  Then we had him.  

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Putting aside that he sucks, if anything his presence (and disproportionate cap allocation) stunted any serious efforts to improve the position.

There is no real-world scenario where JD would have made "serious effort to improve" Mosely's position for 2021

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The 5th + 6th round secondary is a draft strategy that presumes a 10-15% success rate requires that many picks to find one good starter, in lieu of signing any worthwhile veterans. Those aren’t typically hit or miss; everyone knows they’re mostly miss, and is why all 6 of those picks combined aren’t worth a day-2 pick (except maybe if there are enough round 3 comp picks: all 6 together had roughly the draft pick value of pick #98 plus nothing more). Put that way it’s hardly the big investment it sounds like when mentioning the quantity of picks.

It was the assets available.  

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C.Lawson was a serious acquisition. I’m not faulting Douglas for the injury. It’s a rough sport & it happens sometimes, unfortunately. Lawson had some notable injury history but so had others early-on in their careers. He’d played every game the prior season and was a rising player not one who seemed to be resting on prior accomplishments. Sucks the way it turned out, but anyone can get injured.

Same Old Jets luck.

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The rest were failed-elsewhere shots in the dark, hoping to get lucky on the likes of guys whose teams were happy to move on without them, like Rankins & Shaq Lawson. Or at least hope one of them panned out. None did; they all stink.

In 2022 the efforts will have to be more realistic than 2021’s unserious fingers-crossed method. 

 As in 2021, the primary offseason goal must be to support Zach and the Offense.  

That isn't to say we can't spend in FA on Defense, or use some of our many high picks on Defense, but going "all in" on Defense is stupid.  The Offense remains one of, if not the, worst in the NFL.  And the NFL is driven by Offense, not Defense.

And Zach needs help if he's to be salvaged.  And no matter how good the D, JD and Saleh are gone if Zach fails.

So I expect a more balanced approach in 2022, with about equal Offense and Defense spending/investment.

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

i.e. I said "It's just that most of these moves simply didn't work out".

Regardless, a DC Head Coach would/should be expected to be "better" at Defense than a pure OC Head Coach was.

Agreed.

We didn't have him.  Then we had him.  

There is no real-world scenario where JD would have made "serious effort to improve" Mosely's position for 2021

It was the assets available.  

Same Old Jets luck.

 As in 2021, the primary offseason goal must be to support Zach and the Offense.  

That isn't to say we can't spend in FA on Defense, or use some of our many high picks on Defense, but going "all in" on Defense is stupid.  The Offense remains one of, if not the, worst in the NFL.  And the NFL is driven by Offense, not Defense.

And Zach needs help if he's to be salvaged.  And no matter how good the D, JD and Saleh are gone if Zach fails.

So I expect a more balanced approach in 2022, with about equal Offense and Defense spending/investment.

Oh good, I was really hoping you'd break up my post into 10 parts. The 3 answers I bolded are inadequate refutations.

1. Douglas didn't bring in Mosley. There's no way to rationalize that he did.

2. Davis was brought in even with Mosley returning, so there's more than a decent chance he'd have sought better than Davis for the MLB position in Mosley's absence. 

3. Actually they technically weren't the assets available; there were 5 picks he turned into 6 by trading down on day 3. Even still, all those picks together are worth less than any single 4th round pick, and that's what the defense got:

• Offense got the value of picks 2 + 14 (23 + 66 + 86) + 34 + 107
• Defense got the value of pick 98 (broken down into 5th & 6th rounders)

Put it together into approximate chart points to really highlight that difference, and show how "6 picks" looks very different with context:

• Offense = 3900
• Defense = 100

That's not a team seriously investing in defense -- let alone as a first response-offseason to losing the team's only PB/AP player the prior offseason. What that is is a picture of flinging mud against the wall to see what sticks: where they could get lucky this year for cheap, while focusing on the offense, to then reassess after the 2021 season with any stuck-mud on said wall (if any) as a new starting point.

[Warfish]

24 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Oh good, I was really hoping you'd break up my post into 10 parts. The 3 answers I bolded are inadequate refutations.

We are what we are and do what we do.  This is how I organize my thoughts/responses to points.  

24 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

1. Douglas didn't bring in Mosley. There's no way to rationalize that he did.

No one said he did.  What he did was understand we were getting Mosely back after two years hurt/away, which should have been (and was) a net positive.  Mosely is not this Defenses primary problem.

24 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

2. Davis was brought in even with Mosley returning, so there's more than a decent chance he'd have sought better than Davis for the MLB position in Mosley's absence. 

You're incorrect, but free to believe whatever you like.  You might have moved on from Mosely, JD would not have, nor would any NFL GM given the totality of the situation.

24 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

3. Actually......

JD tried, and failed, to help the Defense by using the available lower tier assets while focusing the bulk of his high-end assets on the Jets horrific, worst-in-NFL Offense. 

It was the right strategy given the depths of horror of our Offense during the Gase era, and given the selection of Wilson, he (JD) simply (mostly) failed in enacting it.

If you think he should have done things differently, focused more on the Jets Defense, and less on the Offense, you're certainly entitled to that viewpoint.

[Sperm Edwards]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We are what we are and do what we do.  This is how I organize my thoughts/responses to points.  

No one said he did.  What he did was understand we were getting Mosely back after two years hurt/away, which should have been (and was) a net positive.  Mosely is not this Defenses primary problem.

You're incorrect, but free to believe whatever you like.  You might have moved on from Mosely, JD would not have, nor would any NFL GM given the totality of the situation.

JD tried, and failed, to help the Defense by using the available lower tier assets while focusing the bulk of his high-end assets on the Jets horrific, worst-in-NFL Offense. 

It was the right strategy given the depths of horror of our Offense during the Gase era, and given the selection of Wilson, he (JD) simply (mostly) failed in enacting it.

If you think he should have done things differently, focused more on the Jets Defense, and less on the Offense, you're certainly entitled to that viewpoint.

No but you framed it as the defense he put together for the year. He didn't do anything to put Mosley on the team other than not having him disappeared.

He used the lower-tier assets because he wasn't making a serious effort, as I see it. He was trying to see what found money he could find. That's lower tier FAs - other than C.Lawson alone - and even lower tier draft picks and tagging but not extending Maye.

This was a water-tread endeavor for the season, designed to be reassessed in 2022, but with hopefully a bit fewer holes to fill.

None of the above has anything to do with what I'd have rather done; it's just an assessment of what was done. This was a half-hearted effort on that side of the ball, just to get bodies on the field and see which of those pieces has a future. By design.