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1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

That got me wondering. What was the best draft class in Jets history? The bar is pretty low.

I think it was 1977: Marvin Powell; Wesley Walker; Scott Dierking; Joe Klecko; Kevin Long; Dan Alexander and Matt Robinson.

2000 maybe? Ellis, Abraham, Pennington, Becht and Coles. Even so, that's with 4 first round picks. You're right though, it is very low and shouldn't be hard to beat. 

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I didn’t think Zach had it in him but he really has shown improvement in the last 3-4 games. I hope he can put together a complete 60 minute game. We’ve been seeing two different QB plays each half. 

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1 hour ago, ncjetman said:


good point - the only thing i’d say is in some ( not all ) cases a gm may be influenced by head coach and his desire for certain type players - i think that’s why mims was drafted last year and moore this year - two different sets of skills and where mims might be a different player in gase’s offense ( ok gase was and is an idiot but you get my point) and moore fits this offense to a t- not a coincidence i don’t think - nonetheless becton needs to be who we hoped he was or else douglas will have to answer for it


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Agreed, that bad 2020 draft still falls on JD of course.  There is still a chance Becton saves the class if he gets down to 350 pounds and stays healthy, a big IF right now.  He was dominant at times in 2019 so there is hope.  But Mims, Perine, and even James Morgan all fit what Gase wanted (Gase pushed for Morgan) and JD has said that it's a priority for him to get the coaches preferences for traits they are looking for in their system.   So hopefully 2021 is a better representation of drafts to come, though this past class's success will be hard to match but still with 4 picks in the top 40 we should get 4 immediate quality starters.  Plus FA. 

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1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

There’s definitely reasons to be optimistic. However, my expectations for next year are low. Im expecting another year where we let young guys develop. The offense should be middle of the pack though. But there’s going to be growing pains when you have 1st and 2nd year players getting significant playing time. 

It’s not what i would do but it’s clear this FO/CS will continue to invest in young talent. 

Yup playoff contenders 2023 - 2025 is our most likely window.  Get the 2021 and 2022 draft classes seasoned, plus get out of CJ Mosley's contract, the last lingering terrible long-term contract. 

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1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

I hope so but I'm not sure how you have confidence in that.  In two seasons as a Pro Becton has played in fewer than 50% of games.

As Bill Parcells would say, "sometimes a player's best ability is his availability."  Becton is the furthest thing from an Ironman and this challenge puts the Jets in a pickle.  They either need to replace Becton and maybe move him to another spot on the OL, or have two other starting caliber OTs (like they did this year with Fant, Moses) on the roster which typically isn't cheap.  The Jets would be in a world of hurt right now had they not signed Morgan Moses this past offseason.

So far in his career he has been unlucky, a knee cap issue because someone rolled up on him, and a pectoral issue. At the end of the day, Becton is 6'7" 360+ lbs. He is a devastating run blocker and will only get better in the passing game. You are entitled to think he will be a bust. Only time will tell, who is right. I am not going to bet against Becton.

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2 hours ago, peebag said:

lol.  Do you know how many freakin' times I've heard that?

Too many times.

Like my friends in Missouri say, "Show me".

Agreed. Though I’m optimistic (again. Sigh.)

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1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

So we're now blaming Gase for JD's 2020 Draft? 

You seem to be having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees. Apparently Sundays loss was a seminal moment in this franchise’s history. Just be glad you can say you were there to see it happen.

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1 hour ago, ncjetman said:


what a pithy analysis of my comments - do you put this much thought into all your opinions? no i did not say anything of the sort and i’m hoping ( for your sake) that you know it - but hey thanks for enriching the board with these sophisticated comments


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Pithy is such a nice way for you to describe @playtowinthegame … I’m sure he appreciates it. eg: concise and forth fully directive, according to Siri.

I aspire to be pithy some day.

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1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

That got me wondering. What was the best draft class in Jets history? The bar is pretty low.

I think it was 1977: Marvin Powell; Wesley Walker; Scott Dierking; Joe Klecko; Kevin Long; Dan Alexander and Matt Robinson.

2006 has to be up there. Two Ring of Honor players in D’Brick and Mangold, and multiple, productive role players. 

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3 hours ago, ncjetman said:

 

We are starting to see the future of this team and unlike many other posters I am truly excited - for all those doom and gloomers I say pay attention because this Jets team is fueling up and will be taking off big time.

 

We have a real GM ( sorry Negative Nancy’s ) - this years draft class proves he’s put together a scouting team that can pick the right prospects and we have added four major pieces on offense ( Carter, Moore, AVT and most importantly the one piece we have to have ZW franchise quarterback) - on defense we have a young secondary that is playing well and a young soon to be #1 corner in Hall - of course we need much more on D but hat will come soon.

 

We finally have a real coaching staff led by Coach Saleh who clearly knows what he’s doing - for example he started LaFleur on the field but recognizing it wasn’t working let him move upstairs and the results speak for themselves - LaFleur has emerged as a terrific OC in his first year - I’m pretty sure with a complete offseason to work with young players that next season will see the offense take another step up - Brent Boyer has continued doing excellent work with Special Teams - resign Berrios and we don’t have to even pay attention to this unit - best SpecialTeams Coordinator since Westhoff - Ulbrich is a question mark but will get another year ( with infusion of defensive talent) to prove he’s the right guy - kinda feel like he’s coaching with one hand tied behind his back due to youth injuries etc

 

Lastly we have finally found our FQ - Wilson has improved significantly since week one and that’s what everyone wanted and expected before season started - the kids now showing coolness in the pocket ( no happy feet anymore) is going through his progressions properly and completing tough passes - all without top receivers running backs and multiple OL - played Brady straight up until very end - I for one don’t want to hear gratuitous criticism- it’s unwarranted and sorry but just plain stupid - can’t prove it of course but by this time next year our QB problems will be but a bad memory.

 

The entire Jets management team has weathered the absolute worst of the learning process - everyone has turned the corner - all serious questions about Douglas and Saleh and staff have been answered and considering how shaky we were coming out of the gate I am very impressed with the recent improvements.

 

We need so much talent to get to next level but I am uber confident that Douglas is up to the task and Saleh and staff will make he most of players talent - the foundation has been laid - let’s enjoy the building of a perennial contender before our eyes.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Also, if ZW continues to raise the level of play of the other O members while the better you can get at talent you try to get, but even with that as injuries happen he can still provide the O with solid play. Heck he is even making Berrios the threat he has been. He was able to win a game with the only guy catching a TD being a 300+ pound OT. And, he can even make great plays with his legs when needed. I myself am getting through this transition an ironic situation. I will very well move to south NJ before next season and that is Philly region, plus I am not switching to direct TV with a dish just to get Jets games where I would likely have to pay $100+ for their basic stations and $300 a year for the NFL games package. That is $1500 or more a year and I also do not want to have to get the dish. So, I will only have red zone unless the NFL makes either DirectTV or someone else like Apple for Disney with ESPN+ perform streaming where maybe it is $100 a year to stream 1 team's games. That I would do through a streaming app off Comcast that I have there. So, what is ironic is by the time I cannot watch the full games more than likely, this team will probably really be worth watching. If that is the case, then maybe so be it. Maybe not watching every play is what is needed to see this team prosper. We'll see.  

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1 hour ago, Jet2020 said:

I didn’t think Zach had it in him but he really has shown improvement in the last 3-4 games. I hope he can put together a complete 60 minute game. We’ve been seeing two different QB plays each half. 

I'm confused.  What did you see last week?  In which half did he not play well?

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7 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Also, if ZW continues to raise the level of play of the other O members while the better you can get at talent you try to get, but even with that as injuries happen he can still provide the O with solid play. Heck he is even making Berrios the threat he has been. He was able to win a game with the only guy catching a TD being a 300+ pound OT. And, he can even make great plays with his legs when needed. I myself am getting through this transition an ironic situation. I will very well move to south NJ before next season and that is Philly region, plus I am not switching to direct TV with a dish just to get Jets games where I would likely have to pay $100+ for their basic stations and $300 a year for the NFL games package. That is $1500 or more a year and I also do not want to have to get the dish. So, I will only have red zone unless the NFL makes either DirectTV or someone else like Apple for Disney with ESPN+ perform streaming where maybe it is $100 a year to stream 1 team's games. That I would do through a streaming app off Comcast that I have there. So, what is ironic is by the time I cannot watch the full games more than likely, this team will probably really be worth watching. If that is the case, then maybe so be it. Maybe not watching every play is what is needed to see this team prosper. We'll see.  

You should be able to get both Philly and NY games on most cable networks.

I don't know exactly where you're moving but I get both on Xfinity.  800's in Philly, 900's are the NY local stations...

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55 minutes ago, Claymation said:

So far in his career he has been unlucky, a knee cap issue because someone rolled up on him, and a pectoral issue. At the end of the day, Becton is 6'7" 360+ lbs. He is a devastating run blocker and will only get better in the passing game. You are entitled to think he will be a bust. Only time will tell, who is right. I am not going to bet against Becton.

I like the idea of drafting someone this year who can play RG if Becton gets his act together.  That person can move to RT/LT long term after Fant moves on.  

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4 hours ago, ncjetman said:

 

We are starting to see the future of this team and unlike many other posters I am truly excited - for all those doom and gloomers I say pay attention because this Jets team is fueling up and will be taking off big time.

 

We have a real GM ( sorry Negative Nancy’s ) - this years draft class proves he’s put together a scouting team that can pick the right prospects and we have added four major pieces on offense ( Carter, Moore, AVT and most importantly the one piece we have to have ZW franchise quarterback) - on defense we have a young secondary that is playing well and a young soon to be #1 corner in Hall - of course we need much more on D but hat will come soon.

 

We finally have a real coaching staff led by Coach Saleh who clearly knows what he’s doing - for example he started LaFleur on the field but recognizing it wasn’t working let him move upstairs and the results speak for themselves - LaFleur has emerged as a terrific OC in his first year - I’m pretty sure with a complete offseason to work with young players that next season will see the offense take another step up - Brent Boyer has continued doing excellent work with Special Teams - resign Berrios and we don’t have to even pay attention to this unit - best SpecialTeams Coordinator since Westhoff - Ulbrich is a question mark but will get another year ( with infusion of defensive talent) to prove he’s the right guy - kinda feel like he’s coaching with one hand tied behind his back due to youth injuries etc

 

Lastly we have finally found our FQ - Wilson has improved significantly since week one and that’s what everyone wanted and expected before season started - the kids now showing coolness in the pocket ( no happy feet anymore) is going through his progressions properly and completing tough passes - all without top receivers running backs and multiple OL - played Brady straight up until very end - I for one don’t want to hear gratuitous criticism- it’s unwarranted and sorry but just plain stupid - can’t prove it of course but by this time next year our QB problems will be but a bad memory.

 

The entire Jets management team has weathered the absolute worst of the learning process - everyone has turned the corner - all serious questions about Douglas and Saleh and staff have been answered and considering how shaky we were coming out of the gate I am very impressed with the recent improvements.

 

We need so much talent to get to next level but I am uber confident that Douglas is up to the task and Saleh and staff will make he most of players talent - the foundation has been laid - let’s enjoy the building of a perennial contender before our eyes.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Much to be done still. However, there is reason for optimism and hope for the future.

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1 hour ago, Claymation said:

So far in his career he has been unlucky, a knee cap issue because someone rolled up on him, and a pectoral issue. At the end of the day, Becton is 6'7" 360+ lbs. He is a devastating run blocker and will only get better in the passing game. You are entitled to think he will be a bust. Only time will tell, who is right. I am not going to bet against Becton.

Never mentioned the word bust.

He's a significant availability risk.

His upside is amazing.  I love it when he's out there locking down the LT spot.  I just haven't seen it enough.

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3 hours ago, ncjetman said:


good point - the only thing i’d say is in some ( not all ) cases a gm may be influenced by head coach and his desire for certain type players - i think that’s why mims was drafted last year and moore this year - two different sets of skills and where mims might be a different player in gase’s offense ( ok gase was and is an idiot but you get my point) and moore fits this offense to a t- not a coincidence i don’t think - nonetheless becton needs to be who we hoped he was or else douglas will have to answer for it

an
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Excellent point! Perrine also, and Morgan. I think those players were Gase draft picks and fit his offense. Becton isnt a great fit for this scheme, he fits better in a Gap scheme like we were running last year. Im convinced if Saleh was the coach last year we would have picked differently.

That said I can see Becton moving to the right side and excelling there. I dont see him as a bust at all as some fans do.

Mims.....I wonder if he figured, based on last years numbers ,that he was locked in and he relaxed thinking he was all set and didnt have to keep working. It happens to players they get complacent. Then Moore comes in with his work ethic and Mims cant keep up and gets discouraged . Pure speculation but for the life of me I cant figure that guy out.

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4 hours ago, kevin45 said:

AVT, Elijah, MC 1 & 2, Hall, Echols & Quenon are the best group of draftees we've had in years. If Zach continues to progress and Joe D has a good offseason, the future is promising.


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When it’s confirmed that Wilson is a Top 10 QB with the definite possibility of becoming Top 5, BEATING the GOAT for 59 and a half minutes with at the moment weakest O Unit in the league (injuries factored in), is just a small taste.

With all the other “hits” Douglas made in the 2021 Draft I think it goes down as the greatest Draft in Jet history.

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1 hour ago, Saul Goodman said:

2006 has to be up there. Two Ring of Honor players in D’Brick and Mangold, and multiple, productive role players. 

Up there doesn’t count. We’re looking for the best draft. 77 had 3 ring of honor members in klecko, walker and powell

Plus 3 other starters in deirking, long and alexander and a backup/sometimes starting QB in Robinson. I really don’t think any draft is close to 77 and the 7 players i listed.

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19 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

We have countless examples of teams turning it around in short order.

If a GM cant get his team into the playoff hunt in his 4th year then he shouldn't be GM.

By your standards,  every team in the NFL should improve dramatically every season.  It just completely unrealistic.  And next year is year 2 of this rebuild considering the QB, coaching staff and most of the roster is new in 2021.   If they don't make the playoffs next year, you can write a strongly worded letter expressing your disappointment.  Maybe pick a new team.  Good luck with that.

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11 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

By your standards,  every team in the NFL should improve dramatically every season.  It just completely unrealistic.  And next year is year 2 of this rebuild considering the QB, coaching staff and most of the roster is new in 2021.   If they don't make the playoffs next year, you can write a strongly worded letter expressing your disappointment.  Maybe pick a new team.  Good luck with that.

Why are your standards this low?

Also, it is straight up bizarre how people want to reset the clock for Douglas. Never seen a single person claiming macc with Gase was actually gonna be year 1. Never ever seen it with any team or GM with people trying to erase a GMs history to claim a new year 1. One of the most bizarre defense narratives I have ever seen.

People now trying to run the narrative Douglas first draft wasnt on him.

The cult behaviour behind this guy needs to be studied.

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6 hours ago, ncjetman said:

 

We are starting to see the future of this team and unlike many other posters I am truly excited - for all those doom and gloomers I say pay attention because this Jets team is fueling up and will be taking off big time.

 

We have a real GM ( sorry Negative Nancy’s ) - this years draft class proves he’s put together a scouting team that can pick the right prospects and we have added four major pieces on offense ( Carter, Moore, AVT and most importantly the one piece we have to have ZW franchise quarterback) - on defense we have a young secondary that is playing well and a young soon to be #1 corner in Hall - of course we need much more on D but hat will come soon.

 

We finally have a real coaching staff led by Coach Saleh who clearly knows what he’s doing - for example he started LaFleur on the field but recognizing it wasn’t working let him move upstairs and the results speak for themselves - LaFleur has emerged as a terrific OC in his first year - I’m pretty sure with a complete offseason to work with young players that next season will see the offense take another step up - Brent Boyer has continued doing excellent work with Special Teams - resign Berrios and we don’t have to even pay attention to this unit - best SpecialTeams Coordinator since Westhoff - Ulbrich is a question mark but will get another year ( with infusion of defensive talent) to prove he’s the right guy - kinda feel like he’s coaching with one hand tied behind his back due to youth injuries etc

 

Lastly we have finally found our FQ - Wilson has improved significantly since week one and that’s what everyone wanted and expected before season started - the kids now showing coolness in the pocket ( no happy feet anymore) is going through his progressions properly and completing tough passes - all without top receivers running backs and multiple OL - played Brady straight up until very end - I for one don’t want to hear gratuitous criticism- it’s unwarranted and sorry but just plain stupid - can’t prove it of course but by this time next year our QB problems will be but a bad memory.

 

The entire Jets management team has weathered the absolute worst of the learning process - everyone has turned the corner - all serious questions about Douglas and Saleh and staff have been answered and considering how shaky we were coming out of the gate I am very impressed with the recent improvements.

 

We need so much talent to get to next level but I am uber confident that Douglas is up to the task and Saleh and staff will make he most of players talent - the foundation has been laid - let’s enjoy the building of a perennial contender before our eyes.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Good Morning Clouds GIF by Super Simple

 

I think - think! - we have the right GM in place. LaFleur and Saleh have shown enough this year, in both growth and talent, that I'm looking forward to their development. And Wilson's recent development has been encouraging.

But come on, man. Since coming back from injury, Wilson is still completing less than 60% of his passes, averaging less than 6YPA, and has thrown less than a TD per game. Can't come close to calling him a franchise QB yet.

On D, similar issues. Could Hall develop into a true No. 1 CB? Possibly. Is he there yet? No. The play of the young secondary has been encouraging, but nowhere near good enough, safety is a wasteland (after investing two premium picks into it 5 years ago, what a damn tragedy), our LBs are below average, and we desperately need a dominant pass rusher to unlock the rest of this DL. Ulbrich has been mediocre at best. Nothing to do on specials? Our K is useless above 50 yards, and that's a massive improvement over the past 2 years, where they were just useless. Overstating the bright side on this team just kills your credibility on the rest of it. 

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11 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm confused.  What did you see last week?  In which half did he not play well?

The half where he completed 6 passes and tried a QB sneak with the game on the line on a 4th and 2. 

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One thing about being chin deep in crap for years is that the prospect of being waist deep (or even chest deep) in the same crap might look pretty appealing.

Let's not be fooled (yet again) by signs of life in mostly meaningless games at the end of a season.

There is a truly enormous amount of progress that is needed even to be a wild card team from where we are now and it is not completely clear that we have turned any kind of a corner.

Yet

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