“I’ve heard things & I know things”

[Spoot-Face]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Bart Scott reminded people today that he is in the Jets building twice a week. lol

[T0mShane]

Just now, Hal N of Provo said:

It’s a screw up.  
 

It only mattered because Zach and the offense had a good game, and the defense was meh,  but some people like to avoid that part of the story lol.  

The meh defense held Tom Brady to 20 points for 59:45 of game time. After Ty Johnson’s TD halfway through the third quarter, Zach Wilson went 3 for 8 passing the rest of the way, with one of the completions being the hook and lateral to Berrios at the end of the game.

[FidelioJet]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I tend to think that three guys who spent their formative years and academic and professional lives living in the A gap would know more about litigating the A gap than anyone on this website might.

Yes, but in listening to Bart Scott speak I don't get the sense he is the sharpest knife in the block...let alone infallible. 

I do also suspect, the New York Jets Head Coach - knows more of what the option for the QB was than Bart Scott.

Essentially, Bart Scott is calling Zach Wilson a scumbag who took the long shot of  2 yard QB sneak  (that wasn't for a TD) for the GLORY because it was of bigger value to him personally than leading the team as a QB to a win.

It's a very tough logical jump to make. 

[Hex]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, but in listening to Bart Scott speak I don't get the sense he is the sharpest knife in the block...let alone infallible. 

I do also suspect, the New York Jets Head Coach - knows more of what the option for the QB was than Bart Scott.

Essentially, Bart Scott is calling Zach Wilson a scumbag who took the long shot of  2 yard QB sneak  (that wasn't for a TD) because it was of bigger value to him personally than leading the team as a QB to a win.

It's a very tough logical jump to make. 

The coach always knows more about the situation than some insider, even if they're in the building a lot and around them (Unless said coach is Urban Meyer).

[T0mShane]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

Yes, but in listening to Bart Scott speak I don't get the sense he is the sharpest knife in the block...let alone infallible. 

I do also suspect, the New York Jets Head Coach - knows more of what the option for the QB was than Bart Scott.

Essentially, Bart Scott is calling Zach Wilson a scumbag who took the long shot of  2 yard QB sneak  (that wasn't for a TD) because it was of bigger value to him personally than leading the team as a QB to a win.

It's a very tough logical jump to make. 

Saleh has been all over the place with his explanations for what went on with that play. His new story—which should have been his original story—is that it’s his fault and they’ll get it fixed. But his immediate response was that Zach ****ed up the play.
 

[fullblast]

47 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Bart Scott, In clarifying his flip out, said today that they were reacting to Zach’s post-game answer about the A gap being uncovered. They felt like he was being disingenuous about what he saw (because the Bucs were clearly lined up to collapse the A gap at the snap of the ball). It annoyed the three of them because they all played interior line and thought Zach’s answer was bullsh*t. If those guys had prior (if secret) knowledge that Zach may have some issues with accountability, this was their chance to air that out, and they—caught up in the moment—did so.

They were ripping him well before he even took to the podium.

[Green Ghost]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

This is it.  
They are all in on Zach failing.   

Yeah, but at least Zach’s teammates and coaches have come out this week to defend him. At least they have his back. Right? Uh um… wait a minute!

Don’t tell me they’re in on this also!!!

[Spoot-Face]

18 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This was the interesting piece of Bart’s comments today. He said that a guy like Costello or Cimini would look at the alignment and thing that’s A-gap open, but no football player would look at it and think for a second that it was, especially given the personnel the Jets had on the field. Saleh seemed to imply as much, too. 

So why is the narrative that Zach Wilson is a selfish, egotistical liar who everyone in the locker room hates, and not that he's a dum brains rookie who made a stupid error?

The latter seems the simplest answer, to me.

[Hal N of Provo]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

The meh defense held Tom Brady to 20 points for 59:45 of game time. After Ty Johnson’s TD halfway through the third quarter, Zach Wilson went 3 for 8 passing the rest of the way, with one of the completions being the hook and lateral to Berrios at the end of the game.

I think this will get increasingly difficult over time, but that is some nice work.  

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Saleh has been all over the place with his explanations for what went on with that play. His new story—which should have been his original story—is that it’s his fault and they’ll get it fixed. But his immediate response was that Zach ****ed up the play.
 

This doesn't leave open a whole lot of interpretation...

“I think he executed the playbook exactly the way it was designed to,” Saleh said. “

 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

So why is the narrative that Zach Wilson is a selfish, egotistical liar who everyone in the locker room hates, and not that he's a dum brains rookie who made a stupid error?

The latter seems the simplest answer, to me.

I am not in the locker room, my friend!

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Yeah, but at least Zach’s teammates and coaches have come out this week to defend him. At least they have his back. Right? Uh um… wait a minute!

Don’t tell me they’re in on this also!!!

“I think he executed the playbook exactly the way it was designed to,” Saleh said. “

[NYJets43]

I really don’t care if he’s a jerk so long as he can play. 
 

 

[Hal N of Provo]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

This doesn't leave open a whole lot of interpretation...

“I think he executed the playbook exactly the way it was designed to,” Saleh said. “

 

Lol.  
 

That won’t mean anything.  

Sources!  Secret sources that say what they want them to say!

Messege board street cred is on the line here.  It’s enough to warp a person. Those guys are going on the line for Zach to bust with their career on the line as well.  

This will probably get comical.  

[ScarletKnight89]

49 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Let me just say that there exists a strand of probability that all three guys are making up the position that they have heard from people inside the building that Zach may have some problematic personality traits that causes friction among some of his teammates.

Colon saying that he’s “heard things” is a rhetorical device that one turns to when trying to protect a source or sources. He’s not going to say specifically what he was told because he isn’t gonna snitch. 
 

We can assume a few things are likely:

1. There are members of this Jets team that are frustrated and miserable with the losing, both in the coaching ranks and among the players.

2. Some in that group feel like they would have had a better year if they weren’t playing with a rookie QB who has been mostly bad, but was protected from on high.

3. Some in that group likely commiserate with veterans who are still around the team. 
 

Bart Scott, In clarifying his flip out, said today that they were reacting to Zach’s post-game answer about the A gap being uncovered. They felt like he was being disingenuous about what he saw (because the Bucs were clearly lined up to collapse the A gap at the snap of the ball). It annoyed the three of them because they all played interior line and thought Zach’s answer was bullsh*t. If those guys had prior (if secret) knowledge that Zach may have some issues with accountability, this was their chance to air that out, and they—caught up in the moment—did so.

Very possible

But in regards to Willie Colon, he can still say what he has heard about Zach Wilson (if he actually heard it) without snitching on his source. It's kind of weak to say "I've heard some things" in regards to Zach which insinuates you know something negative about him and then not get into it. 

As far as the Bucs being prepared to collapse the A gap, that still comes down to Zach Wilson making a rookie mistake. Not a selfish, "character flaw" type of move. I do think you're right though that they used that as an excuse to air out their grievances about Zach. But I think it stems from them not wanting the Jets to draft Zach Wilson. Their views on him, particularly Bart Scott's have been building all season long. 

[ryu79]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Saleh has been all over the place with his explanations for what went on with that play. His new story—which should have been his original story—is that it’s his fault and they’ll get it fixed. But his immediate response was that Zach ****ed up the play.
 

That's just not true. He talked in circles for several minutes and concluded with blaming Lafleur in the post game. 

[Spoot-Face]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I am not in the locker room, my friend!

Much to the locker room's relief

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Yeah, but at least Zach’s teammates and coaches have come out this week to defend him. At least they have his back. Right? Uh um… wait a minute!

Don’t tell me they’re in on this also!!!

”Saleh said. “He’s a rookie, his head’s barely above water with regards to the scheme, he’s still in a pleasing motive of his career, in terms of just doing things the way it’s drawn up. .

“I think he executed the playbook exactly the way it was designed to,” Saleh said. “In future years, he’s just going to look to the sideline and just flip the bird to Mike [LaFleur] and say like, ‘Hey, we’re doing this buddy,’ and he’s going to make it work because he’s going to know. I don’t think he’s anywhere near close to being able to even make a decision from a selfish standpoint because his neck’s barely over water with regards to schemes.” 

[JohnnyLV]

I am not sure what it is exactly but there is definitely a segment of fans/journalists/former players/JN members that just fundamentally HATE Wilson at a level I have not really experienced before. A bit like Kapernick but not politically motivated.

And they do not want to give him a chance at any level. In fact many seem to be determined and committed to seeing him fail.

Zach made a terrible play, but that innate hatred has escalated that one play completely out of any proportion any resaonableness.

It was also really the only negative from the game you could find so they latched onto it hard.

I do not get it. 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This doesn't leave open a whole lot of interpretation...

“I think he executed the playbook exactly the way it was designed to,” Saleh said. “

 

He’s all over the place

 

:05-1:45.
 

Saleh (at :10): He ran the play as it was designed

Saleh (at :35): The play was a handoff

Saleh (at 1:30): The play was an end around to Berrios, we had the look we wanted, we didn’t communicate it to Zach very well.

 

[Spoot-Face]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

”Saleh said. “He’s a rookie, his head’s barely above water with regards to the scheme, he’s still in a pleasing motive of his career, in terms of just doing things the way it’s drawn up. .

“I think he executed the playbook exactly the way it was designed to,” Saleh said. “In future years, he’s just going to look to the sideline and just flip the bird to Mike [LaFleur] and say like, ‘Hey, we’re doing this buddy,’ and he’s going to make it work because he’s going to know. I don’t think he’s anywhere near close to being able to even make a decision from a selfish standpoint because his neck’s barely over water with regards to schemes.” 

wait, what?

[Green Ghost]

9 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

So why is the narrative that Zach Wilson is a selfish, egotistical liar who everyone in the locker room hates, and not that he's a dum brains rookie who made a stupid error?

The latter seems the simplest answer, to me.

And yet, here we are Spoot. Here we are.

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Lol.  
 

That won’t mean anything.  

Sources!  Secret sources that say what they want them to say!

Messege board street cred is on the line here.  It’s enough to warp a person. Those guys are going on the line for Zach to bust with their career on the line as well.  

This will probably get comical.  

I just hope Zach is blocking all this sh*t out.  Just keep focusing on getting better.

[Grandy]

Everything backs up Wilson having high character. I mean, he was voted captain as a rookie and you keep getting quotes from people around him that back up the fact that he's in a good place personally and with regards to the team. He made a dumb decision and the coaches didn't help with that. It happens and is not worth anywhere near this level of controversy.

I think the only possibility of some teammates being unhappy would be due to the span of QB's that outperformed him earlier this season, but at this point I think he's grown past that. We just went toe to toe with the defending champs and Brady while Wilson was at the forefront of it. 

Not buying the character flaw thing at all though. Reeks of bullsh*t.

[Beaver]

I don't doubt there may be a few players on the team who don't or didn't like Zach at the time or now.  I mean the kid did keep Lafleur on the sidelines until he got hurt and had his personal QB coach hired be the staff to help.  The way Zach was playing earlier too probably didn't help, so I would expect a few players may have have vented off the record about him.   Hell, half the board here was calling him out for these actions.  So I would expect those guys have "heard some things" about Zach.   I also think they blew the play out of proportion.  I still haven watched the video or listened to anything they have said.

 

If Zach wins no one will care about this.   I

[NYJets43]

I don’t know how anyone can blame the 22 year old QB for that 4th and 2 play.
 

How the hell does the HEAD coach not get together with the OC and QB DURING a timeout and effectively communicate/agree on a play in that situation. 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Very possible

But in regards to Willie Colon, he can still say what he has heard about Zach Wilson (if he actually heard it) without snitching on his source. It's kind of weak to say "I've heard some things" in regards to Zach which insinuates you know something negative about him and then not get into it. 

As far as the Bucs being prepared to collapse the A gap, that still comes down to Zach Wilson making a rookie mistake. Not a selfish, "character flaw" type of move. I do think you're right though that they used that as an excuse to air out their grievances about Zach. But I think it stems from them not wanting the Jets to draft Zach Wilson. Their views on him, particularly Bart Scott's have been building all season long. 

I think it’s pretty innocent and predictable office gossip. If Colon is aware of players thinking Zach is a mush, and he reveals that in an instance where he felt Zach was being disingenuous to avoid responsibility, he’s not going to go too far beyond that. Why would he burn a source?
 

I agree about the character flaw thing. If there’s anything to the story that Zach screwed up, it’s not indicative of a personality flaw; it’s an indication that he’s young and from Utah.

[Grandy]

Just now, Beaver said:

I don't doubt there may be a few players on the team who don't or didn't like Zach at the time or now.  I mean the kid did keep Lafleur on the sidelines until he got hurt and had his personal QB coach hired be the staff to help.  The way Zach was playing earlier too probably didn't help, so I would expect a few players may have have vented off the record about him.   Hell, half the board here was calling him out for these actions.  So I would expect those guys have "heard some things" about Zach.   I also think they blew the play out of proportion.  I still haven watched the video or listened to anything they have said.

 

If Zach wins no one will care about this.   I

Yeah I think any controversy in the locker room over Wilson would be more so due to sucking a good portion of the year, and not character problems.

[JohnnyLV]

1 minute ago, Grandy said:

Everything backs up Wilson having high character. I mean, he was voted captain as a rookie and you keep getting quotes from people around him that back up the fact that he's in a good place personally and with regards to the team. 

I think the only possibility of some teammates being unhappy would be due to the span of QB's that outperformed him earlier this season, but at this point I think he's grown past that. We just went toe to toe with the defending champs and Brady while Wilson was at the forefront of it. 

Not buying the character flaw thing at all though. Reeks of bullsh*t.

Veterans like veteran QBs. It does not matter if his name is Wilson, Lance, Fields, Lawrence, Jones, Mills, etc... there will ALWAYS be a contingent of veterans that feel they are being robbed because a rookie QB is playing. It is not personal, they just want to win now and don't care about building a team because they wont be around. Jim Miller has talked about this himself pretty often, and despite being a QB himself thinks that veterans are correct in hating rookie starters.

So Colon is saying exactly nothing. You think any vet in Chicago wants to see Fields play? Does not mean that they hate him personally.

[fullblast]

10 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

wait, what?

There it is

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

That's just not true. He talked in circles for several minutes and concluded with blaming Lafleur in the post game. 

He blamed everyone on Sunday and he’s blaming himself today. All over the place.

[Green Ghost]

If I had to guess ( and that’s all I’m doing obviously) there were probably a few times Zach ignored or changed play calls and came off trying to play the hero.

I don’t think it was with bad intent, he probably thought he saw a home run, and kept swinging and missing. It wore on his teammates, and they said stuff.

Scott alluded to something like this when he said “there it is. There’s the character flaw”. I think he just wants to make big plays like he did at BYU.

Something is going on though. Go back and look at how the team was in the locker room with White after his big game. You haven’t seen anything like that with them and Zach.

[FidelioJet]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He’s all over the place

 

:05-1:45.
 

Saleh (at :10): He ran the play as it was designed

Saleh (at :35): The play was a handoff

Saleh (at 1:30): The play was an end around to Berrios, we had the look we wanted, we didn’t communicate it to Zach very well.

 

All of those point to the same thing.

They had a play called with an option - Zach read the defense as what taught and ran it as he was told.

Saleh should have told Zach to forget the sneak read - he didn't.  End of discussion...

[jeremy2020]

I heard Zach Wilson makes "I ****ed your mom jokes" to himself in the mirror. 

[dcJet]

27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Saleh has been all over the place with his explanations for what went on with that play. His new story—which should have been his original story—is that it’s his fault and they’ll get it fixed. But his immediate response was that Zach ****ed up the play.
 

hmm i didn't know Saleh blamed Zach initially but I don't doubt it.  It's one of Saleh's worst traits, not protecting his players and blaming/throwing them under the bus.  We've seen it all season, nothing is ever Saleh's fault, it's the players.

Well finally, he fell on the sword and gave Zach cover which is great and shows growth.

This thread is about the players whispering about someone.  I'm sure they have noticed that golden boy Saleh is out for himself.