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Will Zach Do Better vs. Buffalo's Defense than Mike White Did?


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Will Zach Do Better vs. Buffalo's Defense than Mike White Did?  

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  1. 1. Will Zach Do Better vs. Buffalo's Defense than Mike White Did?



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14 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You Zachapostles are something else.

Didn't you hear? 80 yards and a Touchdown is now the benchmark standard for excellence!!

 

And in reality, Hackenberg is a Hall of Famer because he NEVER threw an Interception!!

 

Refusing to throw is now a valued skillset, because, you know, no picks!!

 

 

 

Christ, Saleh and LaFleur may as well be put the Red, Yellow, Green wristband on the kid...

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13 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Zach was going backwards all day yesterday, Allen a great running QB side to side. Both operating under poor conditions and both having probs with their passing game. So hopefully Zach watches the tape and learns something from Allen and how he adjusted. Yesterday was a disappointing step backwards for Zach expected more in his 13th start. 9 sacks is what you see via non NFL quality Qbs. It’s off the charts bad. 

The main thing that Zach is gonna learn is that he needs a Stefon Diggs.

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15 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

The Jets were within 3 points during the 3rd quarter on the road against a much better team and were missing their WR1, WR2, WR3, LT1, LT2, C1, OG2, etc.

Asking Zach and a bunch of random dudes to go into Buffalo and beat the #3 team in the AFC was a tough task.

The Jets were only within 3 because they had the wind for 2/3 of the game and the Bills punter was doing his best to sabotage them. 

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1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

The main thing that Zach is gonna learn is that he needs a Stefon Diggs.

True. We were down to 3 receivers incl a guy who never played in the NFL and was just signed to the PS. Allen also had problems with his passing game look at all his incompletions. It was rough conditions plus like most teams this season we had a lack of personnel. Plus his running game wasn't working the Bills had more production out of theirs. He should have been sacked but not nine times. Some of those were on him he also took us out of FG position if not for a great kick by Eddy we wouldn't have score on that series after the Bills punter fumbled the snap. 

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I’m still very skeptical of Wilson, but that’s one of those games where you really have to wait for the All-22 to come out before evaluating. 
 

The Jets were in 3rd and long all game. Very tough spot to be in. I’m sure he could have hit a few more check downs instead of taking sacks, but on 3rd down does it really matter? 
 

Obviously Wilson needs to begin to feel comfortable “throwing receivers open” like Herbert yesterday. However, working with Keelan Cole and Jeff Smith is much different than Mike Williams and Keenan Allen. 

 

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2 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

Zach Wilson wasn't as good as I wanted, but wasn't as bad as I feared, especially considering the team around him.

He had a better rookie year than Sam Darnold but not a better rookie year than Geno Smith.  That's both encouraging and concerning at the same time.  

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Who said Wilson was excellent yesterday? Find me those posts. We can condemn them together. 

The problem is Wilson went a full rookie season where the only game I felt he played like a league average pro QB or better was the Bucs game.  He put together 3 quarters of very good play against a top defense.

At no other time this season did he look like a league average QB.  Even in the Eagles game, it really came down to 1-1.5 nice quarters and then a whole bunch of nothing.

In the big picture, his rookie season was a disappointment.  Next year, there really can't be any more excuses for him, as Douglas legitimately improved the offensive supporting cast in 2021 (when the injury bug didn't hit, we saw that very clearly) and stands to be even better in 2022.

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17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The problem is Wilson went a full rookie season where the only game I felt he played like a league average pro QB or better was the Bucs game.  He put together 3 quarters of very good play against a top defense.

At no other time this season did he look like a league average QB.  Even in the Eagles game, it really came down to 1-1.5 nice quarters and then a whole bunch of nothing.  

I would definitely say he looked like a “league average” QB against the Titans. He was one of the best players on the field in the second half and OT. 

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2 hours ago, slats said:

White might’ve had more interceptions than passing yards, too. 

He might have.  We'll never know.

I am curious, though, if a total of 5 yards net passing for the team is an all-time team record.

If not, I wonder who did worse than that over our history.

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8 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Not that it's any great shakes but the Giants had negative 10 yards passing last week v Da Bears.  

And an attempted 9 yard QB sneak with Jake Fromm! The Giants are killing it!

Every bad thing that has happened with the Jets this season has been one-upped by the Giants

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32 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He had a better rookie year than Sam Darnold but not a better rookie year than Geno Smith.  That's both encouraging and concerning at the same time.  

Why do you say he had a better rookie year than Darnold? 

Not only was he worse in every quantifiable way (with I'd argue a better supporting cast and a better OC) but I think he "flashed" far less and had fewer "good games."

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1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Why do you say he had a better rookie year than Darnold? 

Not only was he worse in every quantifiable way (with I'd argue a better supporting cast and a better OC) but I think he "flashed" far less and had fewer "good games."

I’d say Darnold probably had a better rookie year overall, but Wilson had two good performances against elite teams (Titans, Bucs).
 

Given the context of missing WRs/RBs/OL against an elite defense, Wilson’s performance in the Bucs game was more impressive than any game Darnold had as a rookie (yes, including the packers game against a horrible defense). 

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7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I’d say Darnold probably had a better rookie year overall, but Wilson had two good performances against elite teams (Titans, Bucs).
 

Given the context of missing WRs/RBs/OL against an elite defense, Wilson’s performance in the Bucs game was more impressive than any game Darnold had as a rookie (yes, including the packers game against a horrible defense). 

2018 Packers, Texans, Colts games were all more impressive than Wilsons 220 yard, 1 TD no Pick extravaganzas some folks here are glorifying.  

 

It's weird. 

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11 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I’d say Darnold probably had a better rookie year overall, but Wilson had two good performances against elite teams (Titans, Bucs).
 

Given the context of missing WRs/RBs/OL against an elite defense, Wilson’s performance in the Bucs game was more impressive than any game Darnold had as a rookie (yes, including the packers game against a horrible defense). 

I just think that's nonsense.

First of all, we're accounting for missing players on the Jets but not the Bucs. The Bucs were missing their two best pass rushers (JPP and Shaq Barrett) and their two starting CBs (who missed practice all week) were getting off a plane 30 minutes prior to kickoff. That "elite" defense was not at its best either.

2nd of all Darnold has way, way, way more "good" performances than Wilson had. Darnold's performance at Buffalo was against a better defense than any Wilson played all season -- and it's one of like 6 legitimately good games Darnold had. Wilson probably had two legitimately good games the entire season.

3rd, Darnold only really cratered when he was throwing to Deontay Burnett as his #1 receiver. He was bad some weeks, good others for most of his rookie year. This with Jeremy Bates. Meanwhile the Jets offense took off as soon as Wilson left the field.

I really don't think there's even a comparison, TBH. Darnold had kind of a stereotypical "bad" rookie season. Wilson was much worse.

EDIT: Darnold had 3 games with a passer rating over 110. Wilson had zero over 100. 

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8 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Given the context of missing WRs/RBs/OL against an elite defense, Wilson’s performance in the Bucs game was more impressive than any game Darnold had as a rookie (yes, including the packers game against a horrible defense). 

To be fair, Sam Darnold lit up that same Bucs defense yesterday. That team has some issues heading into the playoffs

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Just now, Jet_Engine1 said:

Packers, Texans Colts games were all more impressed than Wilson 220 yard, 1 TD no Pick extravaganzas some folks here are glorifying.  

 

It's weird. 

For me, when it comes to rookie QBs, I look for improvement throughout the season and toughness/ability to handle adversity. 

wilson played the Bucs game (an elite defense) without his 3 WRs, his best RB who went out with a concussion, and backups on the OL. He was under pressure all day and just played really well and was an ill-advised QB sneal on 4th and 2 from pulling out the game. 
 

he also took over the titans game in the second half and had 297 yards passing and 2 TDs and actually won the game. 
 

Darnold had his flashes as a rookie and it made sense to have hope that he could develop into a good QB. The red flag was when he didn’t take an appreciable jump in year 2. 

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25 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I just think that's nonsense.

First of all, we're accounting for missing players on the Jets but not the Bucs. The Bucs were missing their two best pass rushers (JPP and Shaq Barrett) and their two starting CBs (who missed practice all week) were getting off a plane 30 minutes prior to kickoff. That "elite" defense was not at its best either.

2nd of all Darnold has way, way, way more "good" performances than Wilson had. Darnold's performance at Buffalo was against a better defense than any Wilson played all season -- and it's one of like 6 legitimately good games Darnold had. Wilson probably had two legitimately good games the entire season.

3rd, Darnold only really cratered when he was throwing to Deontay Burnett as his #1 receiver. He was bad some weeks, good others for most of his rookie year. This with Jeremy Bates. Meanwhile the Jets offense took off as soon as Wilson left the field.

I really don't think there's even a comparison, TBH. Darnold had kind of a stereotypical "bad" rookie season. Wilson was much worse.

EDIT: Darnold had 3 games with a passer rating over 110. Wilson had zero over 100. 

We can agree to disagree - I think you are overstating some of Darnold’s best games and underplaying how good Wilson was against a vastly superior Bucs team with Berrios as his best WR. Also, the Titans game has become somewhat underrated as Wilson actually made some spectacular plays to beat the team that eventually became the number 1 seed in the AFC.

 

Regardless, I don’t think obsessively comparing rookie seasons is all that meaningful. The larger point to me is that Wilson has the traits to become a good QB you can win with, if he can become more consistent and take the next step.

 

also - as I have pointed out before, “the offense took off without Wilson” is a bit of a myth. In the four games Wilson missed, the Jets scored 31 points (Mike white game), 17 against the Dolphins (loss),  17 points against Buffalo (blowout loss - the other Mike white game), and were down 42-10 in Indy before the Josh Johnson show in garbage time (loss). 

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3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

We can agree to disagree - I think you are overstating some of Darnold’s best games and underplaying how good Wilson was against a vastly superior Bucs team with Berrios as his best WR. Also, the Titans game has become somewhat underrated as Wilson actually made some spectacular plays to beat the team that eventually became the number 1 seed in the AFC.

 

Regardless, I don’t think obsessively comparing rookie seasons is all that meaningful. The larger point to me is that Wilson has the traits to become a good QB you can win with, if he can become more consistent and take the next step.

 

also - as I have pointed out before, “the offense took off without Wilson” is a bit of a myth. In the four games Wilson missed, the Jets scored 31 points (Mike white game), 17 against the Dolphins (loss),  17 points against Buffalo (blowout loss - the other Mike white game), and were down 42-10 in Indy before the Josh Johnson show in garbage time (loss). 

Just feels like you are moving the goalposts a little to help Wilson here.

Regardless, my biggest concern is that Darnold "finished strong" and I was hoping for a second year leap with him and it never really materialized. If Wilson doesn't make a major second year leap we're in trouble. Hopeful that he does.

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24 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

2nd of all Darnold has way, way, way more "good" performances than Wilson had. Darnold's performance at Buffalo was against a better defense than any Wilson played all season -- and it's one of like 6 legitimately good games Darnold had. Wilson probably had two legitimately good games the entire season.

 

The Buffalo defense in 2018 is better than the Buffalo Defense from this year?  That’s highly, highly debatable.  And if 170 passing yards and 1 td 1 int is the bar for a good game then Darnold didn’t have way, way more good performances than Wilson.

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6 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Just feels like you are moving the goalposts a little to help Wilson here.

Regardless, my biggest concern is that Darnold "finished strong" and I was hoping for a second year leap with him and it never really materialized. If Wilson doesn't make a major second year leap we're in trouble. Hopeful that he does.

I'd be curious to know what "goal posts" I have moved. I have been very consistent on this board with respect to two basic points:

1) The obsession over rookie QB stats is largely misguided. In general, we are overreacting to small sample sizes of first year players in different situations. Years 2 and 3 are much more telling/definitive. I don't really worry about a rookie season unless I see some fundamental shortcoming that tells me the player is incapable of developing or has some character issue. 

2) The big thing I look for from rookies at any position is improvement as the season progresses. 

Does a stronger finish mean Wilson will be good? Definitely not. Most guys bust and everyone seems to bust here, so statistically, Wilson will probably bust. 

I agree that he needs to take the proverbial second year jump. 

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41 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

2018 Packers, Texans, Colts games were all more impressive than Wilsons 220 yard, 1 TD no Pick extravaganzas some folks here are glorifying.  

 

It's weird. 

Yeah I'd say it's an inverse of the post you're replying to. Darnold had more great games as a rookie, but ultimately had more stinkers than Wilson to go with it.

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