Jameson Williams vs. Every other elite Alabama WR prospect

[Paradis]

11 hours ago, WhartonJet said:

He was only at Alabama for 1 year after transferring from Ohio State, but was a year it was.  Not one of the other elite Alabama receivers came close to Jameson's insane 20.1 YPC this year.  The more I look at this draft, the more I think he is the guy at #4.  The only thing that MAY give me pause is if Thibodeaux/Hutchinson were there.  But, I just keep coming back to pairing Jameson Williams with Elijah Moore.  The wonders that would do for Zach Wilson I think is immeasurable.  He would have 2 elite playmakers that are just electric with the ball in their hands.  Plus, Michael Carter looks to be another weapon.  I don't think any other single player in this draft would have the same impact on our team as Jameson Williams (including the pass rushers).  I'm ALL IN on Jameson Williams at 4.

Jameson Williams

Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Overall					90	1773	19.7	18	3	23	7.7	0	93	1796	19.3
*2019	Ohio State	Big Ten	FR	WR	4	6	112	18.7	1	0	0		0	6	112	18.7	1
*2020	Ohio State	Big Ten	SO	WR	6	9	154	17.1	2	0	0		0	9	154	17.1	2
*2021	Alabama	SEC	JR	WR	14	75	1507	20.1	15	3	23	7.7	0	78	1530	19.6	15

 

Julio Jones

Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Alabama					179	2653	14.8	15	10	139	13.9	2	189	2792
*2008	Alabama	SEC	FR	WR	14	58	924	15.9	4					58	924	15.9	4
*2009	Alabama	SEC	SO	WR	13	43	596	13.9	4	2	4	2.0	0	45	600	13.3	4
*2010	Alabama	SEC	JR	WR	13	78	1133	14.5	7	8	135	16.9	2	86	1268	14.7	9

 

Amari Cooper

Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Alabama					228	3463	15.2	31	6	51	8.5	0	234	351
*2012	Alabama	SEC	FR	WR	14	59	1000	16.9	11					59	1000	16.9	11
*2013	Alabama	SEC		WR	11	45	736	16.4	4	1	28	28.0	0	46	764	16.6	4
*2014	Alabama	SEC	JR	WR	14	124	1727	13.9	16	5	23	4.6	0	129	1750	13.6	16

Calvin Ridley

Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Alabama					224	2781	12.4	19	8	40	5.0	1	232	282
*2015	Alabama	SEC	FR	WR	15	89	1045	11.7	7	1	2	2.0	0	90	1047	11.6	7
*2016	Alabama	SEC	SO	WR	15	72	769	10.7	7	5	21	4.2	1	77	790	10.3	8
*2017	Alabama	SEC	JR	WR	14	63	967	15.3	5	2	17	8.5	0	65	984	15.1	5

 

Jerry Jeudy

Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Alabama					159	2742	17.2	26	1	1	1.0	0	160	2743	17.1	26
*2017	Alabama	SEC	FR	WR	8	14	264	18.9	2	0	0		0	14	264	18.9	2
*2018	Alabama	SEC	SO	WR	15	68	1315	19.3	14	0	0		0	68	1315	19.3	14
*2019	Alabama	SEC	JR	WR	13	77	1163	15.1	10	1	1	1.0	0	78	1164	14.9	10

Devonta Smith

Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Alabama					235	3965	16.9	46	4	6	1.5	1	239	3971	16.
*2017	Alabama	SEC	FR	WR	8	8	160	20.0	3	0	0		0	8	160	20.0	3
*2018	Alabama	SEC	SO	WR	13	42	693	16.5	6	0	0		0	42	693	16.5	6
*2019	Alabama	SEC	JR	WR	13	68	1256	18.5	14	0	0		0	68	1256	18.5	14
*2020	Alabama	SEC	SR	WR	13	117	1856	15.9	23	4	6	1.5	1	121	1862	15.4	24

 

Jaylen Waddle

Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Alabama					106	1999	18.9	17	4	17	4.3	0	110	2016	18.3	17
*2018	Alabama	SEC	FR	WR	15	45	848	18.8	7	0	0		0	45	848	18.8	7
*2019	Alabama	SEC	SO	WR	13	33	560	17.0	6	1	5	5.0	0	34	565	16.6	6
*2020	Alabama	SEC	JR	WR	6	28	591	21.1	4	3	12	4.0	0	31	603	19.5	4

Terrible way to assess a pick and I would forfeit this team if the took a guy who run 4 routes, 2 out of 1 formation at 4. 

this is the definition of letting a pair of t*ts decide your fate. 

[Paradis]

3 hours ago, WhartonJet said:

Jameson Williams' game reminds me of Cee Dee Lamb.  I think that is his best pro comp.  But Cee Dee ran 4.51 at the combine at the same height/weight as Jameson Williams (6'2" 190).  Jameson is going to run in the 4.3s 

Stick to tennis lol (I’m teasing). But The only comp that would be worse is if you compared him to Berrios. 

[Paradis]

You wanna spend the 4th overall pick on a player who over 70% of his production came on this one stack/formation that for him free release to run a skinny-post/corner? I like the upside. I like the player. He’s not a top 10 pick. 

[JTJet]

53 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

Sorry but there are plenty of established players who lost their job to a younger player.  Hurts lost his job to Tua and had to transfer.   That’s just one example.  It’s even easier to win a job when there are 2 or 3 spots open.  Or at least he could split reps with another player.  He didn’t even do that.

He may be a great prospect that developed late but the other wrs played multiple seasons at OSU while Williams had one good year.

You're reaching to find a flaw.

You dont "split reps" with talents like Garret Wilson and Chris Olave. They are elite level WRs and the Buckeyes challenge for a title every Friday, they arent going to rotate out their wideouts. 

Not to mention that once OSU jumps out to 35-0 on the regular, they start running the ball more, so the other WRs dont get as many reps. 

JSN went off in their bowl game because Olave and Wilson weren't playing, Ohio State has a plethora of talent and not everyone gets maximum reps.

Once elite talents werent on the depth chart in front of them, both JSN and Jameson Williams showed they were also elite talents. 

[Bowles Movement]

39 minutes ago, JTJet said:

You're reaching to find a flaw.

You dont "split reps" with talents like Garret Wilson and Chris Olave. They are elite level WRs and the Buckeyes challenge for a title every Friday, they arent going to rotate out their wideouts. 

Not to mention that once OSU jumps out to 35-0 on the regular, they start running the ball more, so the other WRs dont get as many reps. 

JSN went off in their bowl game because Olave and Wilson weren't playing, Ohio State has a plethora of talent and not everyone gets maximum reps.

Once elite talents werent on the depth chart in front of them, both JSN and Jameson Williams showed they were also elite talents. 

I’m not “ reaching” for anything.   I honestly don’t care who they pick.

Im just asking why a player who couldn’t beat out the starters at OSU should be drafted higher.  Respond with facts why or don’t respond.

As far as the statement that players don’t rotate in and out, I find that pretty simplistic.  Do the same 2 WRs line up for every play on any pro team?   If the “ back up” was as good as the starter or brought different skills to the table, he is going to get a chance to play, either to keep the starter fresh or to keep the starter motivated. This year the top 3 WR had 65 or more catches at OSU.   He couldn’t crack the top 3???

[Jet_Engine1]

4 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

Size wise, maybe.  But two totally different players.  

Who's your comp?

[Jet_Engine1]

3 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

If I remember correctly from @Paradis in the draft forum, most of his production was on bubbles and go's, with some slants sprinkled in.

Not saying that's necessarily a hard pass, but it's hard to know what else he can do? Can't blame Alabama for sticking with what works, but it's something to consider. 

Perhaps the new combine route tree and his pro day will shed more light on his route running. We all know dude is fast AF.

Certainly could be a top 10 pick and should be on our radar. 

 

3 hours ago, J_Smith said:

He rips the tops off of defenses, would be a great pick at 7

A 6'2 guy that runs a 4.3 paired with Elijah Moore and Corey Davis playing power Outside WR? With a kid that can hit any spot on the field with his Canon arm??

 

Where do we sign up??

[Morrissey]

5 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

He couldnt crack the line up at Ohio State and had to transfer to Alabama to get playing time.   Do only 1 year of success though a very good year.  Contrast that to all the other Bama receivers.   Does that curb your enthusiasm at all?

Joe Burrow exists.

[Bowles Movement]

1 minute ago, Morrissey said:

Joe Burrow exists.

It’s been acknowledged and discussed.

[Morrissey]

5 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

It’s been acknowledged and discussed.

then their is nothing else to discuss. It's not Williams fault Ohio State had too many mouths to feed and he rightly realized he had to bolt for opportunity. That is America baby.

[Greenseed4]

24 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Who's your comp?

Henry Ruggs in Jerry Juedy’s body, 

[JTJet]

27 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

I’m not “ reaching” for anything.   I honestly don’t care who they pick.

Im just asking why a player who couldn’t beat out the starters at OSU should be drafted higher.  Respond with facts why or don’t respond.

As far as the statement that players don’t rotate in and out, I find that pretty simplistic.  Do the same 2 WRs line up for every play on any pro team?   If the “ back up” was as good as the starter or brought different skills to the table, he is going to get a chance to play, either to keep the starter fresh or to keep the starter motivated. This year the top 3 WR had 65 or more catches at OSU.   He couldn’t crack the top 3???

You're view is as simplistic as one can get. I've given you facts that you just refuse to accept. 

There was never a competition to beat out Olave and Wilson, they were already dominately established, and werent going anywhere even if Jerry Rice was behind them. They produced plenty for what was being distributed. 

Ohio State passed the ball WAY more this year than either of the two years Williams was there! It wasnt even remotely close. So of COURSE the 3rd WR is going to get more touches this year. 

Jameson was with OSU in 2019/2020.

2019 OSU Pass attempts - 397 / 270 comp

2020 OSU Pass attempts - 225 / 158 comp

...

2021 OSU Pass attempts - 493 / 350 comp

One of these seasons has plenty of passes to go around for 3 receivers on the regular, and I'll give ya a hint... it ain't 2019/2020

...

I'll save you the reply because this ends that argument. 

[Bowles Movement]

14 minutes ago, JTJet said:

You're view is as simplistic as one can get. I've given you facts that you just refuse to accept. 

There was never a competition to beat out Olave and Wilson, they were already dominately established, and werent going anywhere even if Jerry Rice was behind them. They produced plenty for what was being distributed. 

Ohio State passed the ball WAY more this year than either of the two years Williams was there! It wasnt even remotely close. So of COURSE the 3rd WR is going to get more touches this year. 

Jameson was with OSU in 2019/2020.

2019 OSU Pass attempts - 397 / 270 comp

2020 OSU Pass attempts - 225 / 158 comp

...

2021 OSU Pass attempts - 493 / 350 comp

One of these seasons has plenty of passes to go around for 3 receivers on the regular, and I'll give ya a hint... it ain't 2019/2020

...

I'll save you the reply because this ends that argument. 

I m asking you why he is better.   It doesn't get any simpler than that.   You keep saying he left and had a great year.

Is he faster, a better route runner, better hands, bigger, stronger, etc.   

ill let you get the last word.

[JTJet]

14 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

I m asking you why he is better.   It doesn't get any simpler than that.   You keep saying he left and had a great year.

Is he faster, a better route runner, better hands, bigger, stronger, etc.   

ill let you get the last word.

Wtf are you talking about? You keep changing your point. 

You blatantly said and I quote... 

" why a player who couldnt beat out the starters at OSU should be drafted higher "

Your insinuation was that IF he was as good as he seems now, he should have beat out Olave and Wilson at OSU. 

I've given you about 14 reasons why he wasnt the 1 or 2 when he was at OSU and now you want to know WHY he was better at Bama? 

Because he was given the opportunity that he wasnt given at Ohio State. It's that simple. 

[Bowles Movement]

3 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Wtf are you talking about? You keep changing your point. 

You blatantly said and I quote... 

" why a player who couldnt beat out the starters at OSU should be drafted higher "

Your insinuation was that IF he was as good as he seems now, he should have beat out Olave and Wilsom at OSU. 

I've given you about 14 reasons why he wasnt the 1 or 2 when he was at OSU and now you want to know WHY he was better at Bama? 

Because he was given the opportunity that he wasnt given at Ohio State. It's that simple. 

So you dont get that the reason Im asking why he couldnt beat out the starters is a way of asking “ what is he lacking or what did/ do they do better”?    
You were pounding the table for him and I asked why he had to transfer to play if he is the best WR in the class.   Your response is even though he was better his path was blocked.  Ok    We are done.   Have a great weekend

[OilfieldJet]

6 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

He couldnt crack the line up at Ohio State and had to transfer to Alabama to get playing time.   Do only 1 year of success though a very good year.  Contrast that to all the other Bama receivers.   Does that curb your enthusiasm at all?

Yes. Bust potential is high.

[Morrissey]

7 minutes ago, OilfieldJet said:

Yes. Bust potential is high.

not higher than any other WR

[WhartonJet]

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

Terrible way to assess a pick and I would forfeit this team if the took a guy who run 4 routes, 2 out of 1 formation at 4. 

this is the definition of letting a pair of t!ts decide your fate. 

This is the kind of thinking that has us 28th in offense every year.  Yeah, let’s draft Karlaftis at 4th overall and make excuses why he only has 3 sacks on the year but he is great at eating up double teams and setting the edge.

He had 1 elite year in college.  I get it, it’s a projection, but that is what the NFL draft is.  His skills cannot be taught and we need elite playmakers

[WhartonJet]

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

He’s not a top 10 pick. 

Totally up for a charity bet on this if you are willing.  He will smoke the combine and shoot up boards if he isn’t there already.

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

 

A 6'2 guy that runs a 4.3 paired with Elijah Moore and Corey Davis playing power Outside WR? With a kid that can hit any spot on the field with his Canon arm??

 

Where do we sign up??

I'm open to it.

But with two picks at the top of round two?

Maybe the receiver is best selected there. All the top edge rushers and offensive tackles will be gone by those picks.

A lot depends on whether the team has given up on Becton and whether we re-sign Moses. Even three receivers down, the offense looked good last week... until Fant got injured. 

[WhartonJet]

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

Stick to tennis lol (I’m teasing). But The only comp that would be worse is if you compared him to Berrios. 

This is funny to me.  Jameson Williams' year at Alabama reminds me so much of Cee Dee Lamb's college tape.  Elite playmakers who are too fast & talented for the competition they are playing.  I don't know why you harp on a lack of route tree for Jameson when he is literally faster than any player on the field in the SEC.  Cee Dee Lamb has become an elite route runner in the NFL (and I grant was much a more polished route runner in college), but why hold this against Jameson?  The difference between the 2 is that Jameson las literal track speed and showed this year that he can play extremely fast too.  I will take my chances on that guy.

[Bowles Movement]

6 minutes ago, WhartonJet said:

This is funny to me.  Jameson Williams' year at Alabama reminds me so much of Cee Dee Lamb's college tape.  Elite playmakers who are too fast & talented for the competition they are playing.  I don't know why you harp on a lack of route tree for Jameson when he is literally faster than any player on the field in the SEC.  Cee Dee Lamb has become an elite route runner in the NFL (and I grant was much a more polished route runner in college), but why hold this against Jameson?  The difference between the 2 is that Jameson las literal track speed and showed this year that he can play extremely fast too.  I will take my chances on that guy.

Wasnt the route tree the reason Mims fell to the second round    He was big and fast too

[Jet_Engine1]

24 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I'm open to it.

But with two picks at the top of round two?

Maybe the receiver is best selected there. All the top edge rushers and offensive tackles will be gone by those picks.

A lot depends on whether the team has given up on Becton and whether we re-sign Moses. Even three receivers down, the offense looked good last week... until Fant got injured. 

Round 2, you say?

 

Devin Smith

Mims

Stephen Hill

Alex van Dyke.

 

 

 

 

Shall I continue?

 

? 

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Who's your comp?

Desean Jackson maybe? I don't really remember his Cal tape anymore. You're not wrong, having Williams would open up things for Moore underneath - he commands safety attention. But down and distance will be a thing i expect in how much mileage you get form him (initially).. and he still doesn't do anything for us on the contest ball from outside. He's not overly physically... I can't advocate for #4 pick on a deep threat.

A side bar convo for the draft nerds: Williams and London are effectively the opposition WR. You can make a case for both... but which does THIS team benefit more from with Zach Wilson

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, WhartonJet said:

This is the kind of thinking that has us 28th in offense every year.  Yeah, let’s draft Karlaftis at 4th overall and make excuses why he only has 3 sacks on the year but he is great at eating up double teams and setting the edge.

He had 1 elite year in college.  I get it, it’s a projection, but that is what the NFL draft is.  His skills cannot be taught and we need elite playmakers

 

1 hour ago, WhartonJet said:

Totally up for a charity bet on this if you are willing.  He will smoke the combine and shoot up boards if he isn’t there already.

 

1 hour ago, WhartonJet said:

This is funny to me.  Jameson Williams' year at Alabama reminds me so much of Cee Dee Lamb's college tape.  Elite playmakers who are too fast & talented for the competition they are playing.  I don't know why you harp on a lack of route tree for Jameson when he is literally faster than any player on the field in the SEC.  Cee Dee Lamb has become an elite route runner in the NFL (and I grant was much a more polished route runner in college), but why hold this against Jameson?  The difference between the 2 is that Jameson las literal track speed and showed this year that he can play extremely fast too.  I will take my chances on that guy.

Alright listen, we're both Jet fans and I'm with you. I want more more talent at WR as well. Williams will probably blow the top off the defense... But when the DC has the safeties playing high/deep on a predictable 3rd and 8 inside the 20 -- your #4 pick at WR is effectively taken out of the game. The fact that you see similarities between him and Lamb speaks volumes about where you're coming from. I don't mean that to be rude or condescending -- but they're not the same, at all. Like dramatically so. The things that Williams struggles with IMO were the things Lamb was good at lol... @derp and @Chrebetfan80 are both huge Williams fans, so i'll let them offer another angle on this -- but you can go on twitter and follow my thread on him. I broke down games. He is electric, and there's promise in his development -- totally -- but number 4 is insane. He's not even WR1 (imo)... Burks, Wilson, London, i have all 3 ahead of him atm,... 

Tantalizing playmaking ability, but the Williams evaluation is no where no as straight forward as youre suggestion. 

[Paradis]

I feel like i just ruin threads. 

I'm not trying to be mr know it all, buti know it comes across that way. I can't help that I know a lot things.. i can just shup up though if that would be preferred. 

[BurntDice]

Taking him at 4 is definitely not something I would do. I have about 5 of the wrs rated about the same. None are elite prospects. Id take lamb, jeudy, chase, metcalf, aj brown etc etc coming out over him . MAYBE with the hawks pick take a wr. Dude barely ever has to beat press coverage and just runs free most of the game and relies on his speed. Personally I like Burks the most so far, but we’ll see how they do at the combine. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

56 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Round 2, you say?

 

Devin Smith

Mims

Stephen Hill

Alex van Dyke.

 

 

 

 

Shall I continue?

 

? 

 

[derp]

29 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

 

Alright listen, we're both Jet fans and I'm with you. I want more more talent at WR as well. Williams will probably blow the top off the defense... But when the DC has the safeties playing high/deep on a predictable 3rd and 8 inside the 20 -- your #4 pick at WR is effectively taken out of the game. The fact that you see similarities between him and Lamb speaks volumes about where you're coming from. I don't mean that to be rude or condescending -- but they're not the same, at all. Like dramatically so. The things that Williams struggles with IMO were the things Lamb was good at lol... @derp and @Chrebetfan80 are both huge Williams fans, so i'll let them offer another angle on this -- but you can go on twitter and follow my thread on him. I broke down games. He is electric, and there's promise in his development -- totally -- but number 4 is insane. He's not even WR1 (imo)... Burks, Wilson, London, i have all 3 ahead of him atm,... 

Tantalizing playmaking ability, but the Williams evaluation is no where no as straight forward as youre suggestion. 

To be clear my position is and has been that he’s going to be the first WR drafted and he will go in the top ten but his profile is risky, especially as a top ten pick.

I think he’s pretty unique relative to the other fast guys who have gone high - but still risky.

[Jetsfan80]

16 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I feel like i just ruin threads. 

I'm not trying to be mr know it all, buti know it comes across that way. I can't help that I know a lot things.. i can just shup up though if that would be preferred. 

Asking you to shut up in draft threads would be like asking Einstein or Hawking to shut up during a discussion of the origins of the Universe just because they know more than most/all the people in the room.  I will not stand for that.  

[PLO]

17 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I feel like i just ruin threads. 

I'm not trying to be mr know it all, buti know it comes across that way. I can't help that I know a lot things.. i can just shup up though if that would be preferred. 

Are you the guy who would take Linderbaum at 4 overall? Or do I have that wrong? 

[David Harris]

18 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I feel like i just ruin threads. 

I'm not trying to be mr know it all, buti know it comes across that way. I can't help that I know a lot things.. i can just shup up though if that would be preferred. 

Nah, we’ve been waiting for you

[OilfieldJet]

1 hour ago, Morrissey said:

not higher than any other WR

Perhaps not as high as a WR who has multiple years of performance at an elite college level.

[RedBeardedSavage]

Just seems like there are a lot of good WR prospects in the top 50, but no Ja'Marr Chase level players.

I'd rather roll the dice on an edge rusher or offensive tackle in the first, knowing full well there'd be a steep dropoff in prospect quality between those guys and their round 2 counterparts as opposed to the receivers this year. 

[BurntDice]

38 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

 

Alright listen, we're both Jet fans and I'm with you. I want more more talent at WR as well. Williams will probably blow the top off the defense... But when the DC has the safeties playing high/deep on a predictable 3rd and 8 inside the 20 -- your #4 pick at WR is effectively taken out of the game. The fact that you see similarities between him and Lamb speaks volumes about where you're coming from. I don't mean that to be rude or condescending -- but they're not the same, at all. Like dramatically so. The things that Williams struggles with IMO were the things Lamb was good at lol... @derp and @Chrebetfan80 are both huge Williams fans, so i'll let them offer another angle on this -- but you can go on twitter and follow my thread on him. I broke down games. He is electric, and there's promise in his development -- totally -- but number 4 is insane. He's not even WR1 (imo)... Burks, Wilson, London, i have all 3 ahead of him atm,... 

Tantalizing playmaking ability, but the Williams evaluation is no where no as straight forward as youre suggestion. 

Would you have waddle ranked ahead of him?  I think I do. Waddle may not have had the production, but he has much more lateral quickness, agility and a thicker frame