***2021 NFL PLAYOFFS - WILD CARD ROUND***

[Jet_Engine1]

Why is that Stadium empty? People left early from a home playoff game?

 

That's just weird to me.

[Sperm Edwards]

11 hours ago, Beerfish said:

A 40 year old left tackle is still unreal.

I’d think if anything it shows the lack of need for the Jets to burn multiple 1st rounders on OL unless they’ve 100% given up on Becton, and even then it’s honestly still not necessary. They could re-sign Moses for under $10MM/yr and he’ll anchor that right side for years.  

There are also a handful of veteran centers in their 30s who have at least 2-3 seasons left. Yet it seems like half the board here still wants to take a 289-pound center prospect with a top 10 pick, even though he’s probably never been face to face with an NFL-caliber NT/DT with man-not-boy strength, and who’s got 30-60 pounds on him to start. 

I’m at a loss thinking of the team that used a 1st round pick to upgrade its average veteran starting center - still in his 20s mind you - and rode that strategy to the superbowl.

Rams’ OL:

Whitworth (FA), Edwards (rd 5), Allen (rd 4), Corbett (FA), Havenstein (late rd 2).

But we’re special and apparently we need to use three 1st round picks on the OL in 3 consecutive seasons, even after hitting on two FA tackles who are both very happy playing for the Jets, plus their veteran FA center beign at least average this past year. 

The only way they could rationalize burning a top 10 pick on another OL pick - not on a center, though - is if they don’t re-sign Moses and also trade Becton. They don’t need the greatest eva individuals on a zb line. What they need is none of them to be total disasters, and then the same coaching and players returning. 

I’m all for upgrading from McGovern, but he could easily start on this Rams team we’re watching without causing them to miss or get bounced from the playoffs. I’m not good with upgrading him at the expense of a top 10 overall pick. 

I think there isn’t even a 50-50 chance they take an OL prospect at #4 or #10.

[Dunnie]

Why is that Stadium empty? People left early from a home playoff game?
 
That's just weird to me.

You ever been to LAX .. the 405 can be a nightmare.

.... Richard Todd, Ken OBrien, Chad Pennington, Mark Sanchez, Genope, Sam Darnold ...

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I’d think if anything it shows the lack of need for the Jets to burn multiple 1st rounders on OL unless they’ve 100% given up on Becton, and even then it’s honestly still not necessary. They could re-sign Moses for under $10MM/yr and he’ll anchor that right side for years.  

There are also a handful of veteran centers in their 30s who have at least 2-3 seasons left. Yet it seems like half the board here still wants to take a 289-pound center prospect with a top 10 pick, even though he’s probably never been face to face with an NFL-caliber NT/DT with man-not-boy strength, and who’s got 30-60 pounds on him to start. 

I’m at a loss thinking of the team that used a 1st round pick to upgrade its average veteran starting center - still in his 20s mind you - and rode that strategy to the superbowl.

Rams’ OL:

Whitworth (FA), Edwards (rd 5), Allen (rd 4), Corbett (FA), Havenstein (late rd 2).

But we’re special and apparently we need to use three 1st round picks on the OL in 3 consecutive seasons, even after hitting on two FA tackles who are both very happy playing for the Jets, plus their veteran FA center beign at least average this past year. 

The only way they could rationalize burning a top 10 pick on another OL pick - not on a center, though - is if they don’t re-sign Moses and also trade Becton. They don’t need the greatest eva individuals on a zb line. What they need is none of them to be total disasters, and then the same coaching and players returning. 

I’m all for upgrading from McGovern, but he could easily start on this Rams team we’re watching without causing them to miss or get bounced from the playoffs. I’m not good with upgrading him at the expense of a top 10 overall pick. 

I think there isn’t even a 50-50 chance they take an OL prospect at #4 or #10.

You are likely the voice of reason. Who do you think we should take at 4 and 10?

[Green Ghost]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

Well duh! Of course we would take being a Super Bowl contender over being in perennial rebuild mode. ?

The Jets tried to string out their window a little longer in the 2011–2012 timeframe but they found themselves in salary cap trouble, needing to let some players walk and being unable to replace them. In my opinion, you need to have a balance.

The Rams have literally nothing to work with for the next couple years. It is all or nothing right now. That’s fine, they are obviously a ready team. But they have to get it done now or the purge will have to start. 

I’m not looking to argue, in fact a couple of years ago I would agree with you about the short window, but I’ve seen too many teams find ways to circumvent the cap.
If a team is smart enough to know how to do it, I think it’s more sensible than trying to do what we are… hope you find the needle in the haystack QB in the draft, then build an entire team around him from scratch.

A team like the Rams is surely going to have turnover in 2-3 years as older vets retire, but the QB is already being paid and he isn’t going anywhere. Same with most of their key guys. if they do it right they’ll be able to replace and reload. 
 

[Beerfish]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I’d think if anything it shows the lack of need for the Jets to burn multiple 1st rounders on OL unless they’ve 100% given up on Becton, and even then it’s honestly still not necessary. They could re-sign Moses for under $10MM/yr and he’ll anchor that right side for years.  

There are also a handful of veteran centers in their 30s who have at least 2-3 seasons left. Yet it seems like half the board here still wants to take a 289-pound center prospect with a top 10 pick, even though he’s probably never been face to face with an NFL-caliber NT/DT with man-not-boy strength, and who’s got 30-60 pounds on him to start. 

I’m at a loss thinking of the team that used a 1st round pick to upgrade its average veteran starting center - still in his 20s mind you - and rode that strategy to the superbowl.

Rams’ OL:

Whitworth (FA), Edwards (rd 5), Allen (rd 4), Corbett (FA), Havenstein (late rd 2).

But we’re special and apparently we need to use three 1st round picks on the OL in 3 consecutive seasons, even after hitting on two FA tackles who are both very happy playing for the Jets, plus their veteran FA center beign at least average this past year. 

The only way they could rationalize burning a top 10 pick on another OL pick - not on a center, though - is if they don’t re-sign Moses and also trade Becton. They don’t need the greatest eva individuals on a zb line. What they need is none of them to be total disasters, and then the same coaching and players returning. 

I’m all for upgrading from McGovern, but he could easily start on this Rams team we’re watching without causing them to miss or get bounced from the playoffs. I’m not good with upgrading him at the expense of a top 10 overall pick. 

I think there isn’t even a 50-50 chance they take an OL prospect at #4 or #10.

That is lovely when it works, however for every nice oline built from lower end guys there is a legion of cam clarks, and jarvis harrisons, chum edogas etc.

O line is like any other position, if you use high picks on it you have a better chance of getting better players.

[Gramsci]

38 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

We can agree to disagree on this point.  And regardless, the sport is not and never will be popular in this country.  

Well, the statistics kinda contradict that. But let's see! 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You are likely the voice of reason. Who do you think we should take at 4 and 10?

Buttering me up? BTW this works on me.

Disclaimer: I’m at a bit of a loss because I don’t know as much as 90% here about the individuals themselves. I’m just not a draft prospect junkie and rarely watch college games. So in terms of improving the team overall, and not getting caught up on things that don’t matter even a little bit (e.g. “He’ll play center for us for 10-15 years!”), I can only look at positions. And in doing so, I’d look to positions where it gets harder to pick good starters later on, and where - if they don’t pan out - replacing them with FAs aren’t mega-expensive. Center doesn’t qualify on either front.

So initially I’m looking at WR and EDGE (though I initially had some serious doubts JD would take an edge that early after paying two DEs so much. 

Also I’d look at DB (at 10 not 4) or LB if one of those targeted positions isn’t there. This defense was a ****ing embarrassment, and far far far more so than the Fant-Moses tackle tandem or McGovern in the middle. 

If we were mostly man-blocking then the individual OL players becomes more significant. JMO.

All this is under the presumption that there is no value to trading down, which I think will be his top goal if he can swing it. 

[Jet_Engine1]

12 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

You ever been to LAX .. the 405 can be a nightmare.

.... Richard Todd, Ken OBrien, Chad Pennington, Mark Sanchez, Genope, Sam Darnold ...
 

Yeah, driven all over the Greater LA area from Huntington Beach to Simi Valley...and NYC, and DC. And Atlanta...

 

Still wouldn't leave a home PO game early. 

 

 

? 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

That is lovely when it works, however for every nice oline built from lower end guys there is a legion of cam clarks, and jarvis harrisons, chum edogas etc.

O line is like any other position, if you use high picks on it you have a better chance of getting better players.

It often works. I can’t recall the last SB team that built its OL mostly on 1st round picks (let alone so soon). The last team I can recall that had 3 1st round OL picks on it was Indy but the first of those 3 came like a decade earlier with lots of non-OL 1st round picks made in between. 

There are plenty of quality OL picks that are good enough to build an OL that would be an asset and certainly not keep the team out of the playoffs. Not the way this defense has, anyway. 

It’s a luxury pick for a team that already has a starting center. I’m trying to envision the “who’s left” scenario whereby I’d advocate drafting a ****ing center - a very lightweight one at that - with a top 10 pick. 

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Yeah, driven all over the Greater LA area from Huntington Beach to Simi Valley...and NYC, and DC. And Atlanta...

 

Still wouldn't leave a home PO game early. 

 

 

? 

I lived in southern cali for a couple of years.

LA isn’t a great NFL city 

[johnnyjet]

5’10” scrambling QBs that can’t throw from the pocket have a short shelf life in the nfl. 
 

2 years til Canada for him. 

[Gramsci]

15 minutes ago, jetsons said:

You mean soccer... & soccer is a popular world sport because it actually "Costs" Zero to play... a ball & feet ... that's it. .. so those in less economic countries can be involved as well.

 

 

You could think of Rugby, Volleyball, Handball, Cricket, Basketball and make the same argument for cost. 

Like, i think the way football is structured is going to promote more engagement than American Football.

 

The fact that the clubs are not franchises, and they represent social, religious and political communities. Or even the fact that the clubs are relegated, and not compensated for losing, makes it a higers stakes sport on a weekly basis imo.

 

[Gramsci]

10 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I lived in southern cali for a couple of years.

LA isn’t a great NFL city 

So like, are Chargers and Rams fans even from LA? 

[Gramsci]

17 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It often works. I can’t recall the last SB team that built its OL mostly on 1st round picks (let alone so soon). The last team I can recall that had 3 1st round OL picks on it was Indy but the first of those 3 came like a decade earlier with lots of non-OL 1st round picks made in between. 

There are plenty of quality OL picks that are good enough to build an OL that would be an asset and certainly not keep the team out of the playoffs. Not the way this defense has, anyway. 

It’s a luxury pick for a team that already has a starting center. I’m trying to envision the “who’s left” scenario whereby I’d advocate drafting a ****ing center - a very lightweight one at that - with a top 10 pick. 

You can usually find pretty good IOL prospects after the first round. Creed Humphrey immediately became one of the top OL in the league after being drafted with the 63rd pick.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, Gramsci said:

So like, are Chargers and Rams fans even from LA? 

San Diego LOVES the chargers. It is an absolute travesty that the Chargers left San Diego - that city is the heart of the fanbase. 
 

The Rams were in St Louis when I was out there - the rams were not a thing at all there 
 

other than that, it seemed like raiders fans permeated the entire state. Raiders have an enormous following out there

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, Gramsci said:

You can usually find pretty good IOL prospects after the first round. Creed Humphrey immediately became one of the top OL in the league after being drafted with the 63rd pick.

This is why taking Linderbaum with a top 10 pick would be insane and should never be spoken of again in public. 

[jetstream23]

49 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

I’m not looking to argue, in fact a couple of years ago I would agree with you about the short window, but I’ve seen too many teams find ways to circumvent the cap.

If a team is smart enough to know how to do it, I think it’s more sensible than trying to do what we are… hope you find the needle in the haystack QB in the draft, then build an entire team around him from scratch.

A team like the Rams is surely going to have turnover in 2-3 years as older vets retire, but the QB is already being paid and he isn’t going anywhere. Same with most of their key guys. if they do it right they’ll be able to replace and reload. 
 

No argument here.  If you think I'm disagreeing that there's more than one way to build a winner I'm certainly not.

Different teams approach it differently depending on the cards they already have in their hand.  Some organizations have an excellent team and a great coach but need to make a move for a QB and maybe a key piece like the Rams did with Stafford, Jalen Ramsey, etc. to try to get over the top.  Other teams feel they're loaded and have a young, win-now QB that just needs better coaching so they try to recycle a previous SB winning HC like Mike McCarthy.  Then there are teams like... the Jets in 2020.  Need a new coach, have a Bottom 5 roster, need a new QB.  I believe the approach the Jets are taking right now is the only feasible one because they have to get to the point where they have SOMETHING to build around and no anchor contracts holding them back.  Imagine if Macc had succeeded in signing Kirk Cousins and continued to have a mediocre roster around him and no Cap $$$ because it all went to the QB.  My opinion is that we'd be watching a meandering Jets team that wins about 7-8 games per year and is always competing for second place in the division.

In two years the Jets will likely find out that they either have...

1. A roster that's still bad, no FQB and a bad HC (essentially where we were in 2020).  Another reboot.

2. A rebuilt roster without a FQB where you then try to make a trade or pay $$$$ for a veteran QB.  Think Indy acquiring Wentz.

3. A FQB and a rebuilt roster where we're seeing if the HC is the right guy to make a SB run.

I just think the Jets are a team lacking so much and have many unknowns about the QB and HC, that the best approach continues to be trying to build through the Draft.

The Rams are simply in a different situation, I agree with you.  But the turnover that you mentioned would be happening in 2-3 years will be happening a bit sooner than that.  Three of the most key players from tonights game - OBJ (2nd in receptions, yards and had 1 TD), Von Miller (2nd in tackles, 1 sack), and Sony Michel (led the Rams in rushing) are all FAs next year.  The Rams will have about $2.5M in Cap space.  Their starting Left Tackle is 40 years old.  Again, just a different situation but they're leveraged to win now.

I actually think they're a team the Jets should target in trade talks and maybe try to pry away a guy like Robert Woods (WR - injured) with a mid round pick.

[jetstream23]

55 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Why is that Stadium empty? People left early from a home playoff game?

 

That's just weird to me.

It's LA.

You should see Lakers games.  People arrive at the start of the 2nd quarter and leave 5 minutes into the 4th.

[Gramsci]

15 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

San Diego LOVES the chargers. It is an absolute travesty that the Chargers left San Diego - that city is the heart of the fanbase. 
 

The Rams were in St Louis when I was out there - the rams were not a thing at all there 
 

other than that, it seemed like raiders fans permeated the entire state. Raiders have an enormous following out there

Pretty bizarre to think that they just left a whole city orphan of such a beloved team, just because the owner would make more money in LA.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

9 minutes ago, Gramsci said:

Pretty bizarre to think that they just left a whole city orphan of such a beloved team, just because the owner would make more money in LA.

The Davis' tried this and/or did this with the Raiders about 5 times already. ......First LA a few times and now LV.  

[slimjasi]

8 minutes ago, Gramsci said:

Pretty bizarre to think that they just left a whole city orphan of such a beloved team, just because the owner would make more money in LA.

I mean, I wouldn’t say the area is as passionate about football in general as the northeast is. But the city was definitely bummed.

At the same time, it helps that LA is only a couple of hours away and in the same state 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

55 minutes ago, Gramsci said:

Well, the statistics kinda contradict that. But let's see! 

I've been hearing that my entire life and it never happens.  It will be popular as a women's sport because there is no competition from many other sports, but the best athletes in the US have so much to choose from (and have to play outside the US to make money) as do the fans, it just doesn't grow.  I'm a big lacrosse fan and from 2005-2013 or so it was the fastest growing sport in the US by far and it is back to a nice sport.  Soccer is and always will be a niche sport in the US. When the US loses in the World Cup it's "oh well" and back to the local NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA in the blink of an eye.  

[doitny]

38 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It often works. I can’t recall the last SB team that built its OL mostly on 1st round picks (let alone so soon). The last team I can recall that had 3 1st round OL picks on it was Indy but the first of those 3 came like a decade earlier with lots of non-OL 1st round picks made in between. 

There are plenty of quality OL picks that are good enough to build an OL that would be an asset and certainly not keep the team out of the playoffs. Not the way this defense has, anyway. 

It’s a luxury pick for a team that already has a starting center. I’m trying to envision the “who’s left” scenario whereby I’d advocate drafting a ****ing center - a very lightweight one at that - with a top 10 pick. 

i cant find the post i did it in but i researched back to 2000. thats 21 years and 42 SB teams and only 2 made it with 3 OL drafted in the 1st rd. ... they both lost.

there were 5 with 2 and they won 2 out of 5 (2-3).

so 19 out of 21 SB winners had one or ZERO OL drafted in rd 1. 

this is incredible and lopsided results.

so instead of doing what 90% of the last 21 SB winners have done, we want to do like zero % have done. its bad enough we already wasted 2 picks. 

BTW the three teams who had 2 all got eliminated in the 1st rd this year.

its a proven losing way to build a team. stats dont lie

 

[NYJets43]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It often works. I can’t recall the last SB team that built its OL mostly on 1st round picks (let alone so soon). The last team I can recall that had 3 1st round OL picks on it was Indy but the first of those 3 came like a decade earlier with lots of non-OL 1st round picks made in between. 

There are plenty of quality OL picks that are good enough to build an OL that would be an asset and certainly not keep the team out of the playoffs. Not the way this defense has, anyway. 

It’s a luxury pick for a team that already has a starting center. I’m trying to envision the “who’s left” scenario whereby I’d advocate drafting a ****ing center - a very lightweight one at that - with a top 10 pick. 

OL is never a luxury pick. Good players are very tough to find and outside of Becton and AVT no Jet OL is under contract beyond 2022. The Cowboys invested 3 first round picks in OL and that set them up pretty Well. 
 

It may not be the teams biggest need, but that seems to where the strength of this draft it. 

 

[JustInFudge]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Kingsburying. 
 

cc: @JiFapono

5-10, 8-8, 11-5 and the playoffs.

So next year....13-4 and a playoff win?

Seems like the trajectory for that sexy stud of a Head Coach and something this fanbase would sign up for in a heartbeat.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, Gramsci said:

You can usually find pretty good IOL prospects after the first round. Creed Humphrey immediately became one of the top OL in the league after being drafted with the 63rd pick.

No doubt. And to give him credit, Humphrey was squarely on @Beerfish’s radar last year, and it seems with good reason. Except he wanted him in round 1 at pick #23 or wherever we started before trading up for AVT.

• One could certainly make the argument that we’d have been better off on balance, seeing how we then would’ve kept our pair of 3rd rounders (a move I didn’t deeply love myself precisely because that was a deep OL draft and moving up should’ve been unnecessary).
• But who’s to say Douglas would’ve drafted Humphrey anyway? As it is not only did he slip almost into round 3, but a different center was drafted right ahead of him, too.

Even in using their very late 2nd rounder for him, the team that did so was KC who was already plenty solid all over (they weren’t exactly coming off a season with the #32 defense in the league). So they were much closer to being a couple OLmen away from another SB (not being in one; they were already in one before injuries decimated their OL). They traded their late 1st for a veteran LT who needed a huge extension. The Jets aren’t nearly close enough to that status yet to take a center with a top 10 pick 1st rounder (something the Chiefs - who really liked Humphrey, too - didn’t do with even their ultra low 1st rounder). 

Alternatively, in the 2021 offseason shoulda-woulda area, we may as well have offered $14MM/yr (or even $15MM per) for Corey Linsley, who signed for $12.5MM in FA from the Chargers, with less than McGovern’s fully guaranteed 2 seasons (albeit for more $ per year). This was the move I badly wanted, and frankly saw as a no-brainer unless he just wanted to live in the sun after those winters in Green Bay.

• Who cares about the overpayment? The Jets had gobs of cap room.
• Linsley was 1st team all pro, McGovern was coming off a horrible year, and after 1 more season they could cut McGovern anyway and in the meantime just have him as a $9MM RG for a year (since his y2 was fully guaranteed).
• Even that’s also no big deal seeing how Douglas was willing to roster three $3-4MM guards anyway (until Lewis unexpectedly retired in Aug, leaving GVR and Feeney). That’s more than McGovern made anyway; most of what Linsley would make; and then McGovern is dumped after 2 seasons which clears $9MM in year 3.
• Oh yeah, and it would’ve saved any delusional behavior about burning a top 10 pick on as low value a position as a ****ing center. 

My issue with it isn’t just some concern that he might not be quite as good as expected. It’s not unheard-of (Jason Kelce excels at that weight), but it’s extremely uncommon. It’s that it’s way too high a pick, which can’t be used elsewhere. And it’s not even like the Jets are a center-less team in the meantime. We wouldn’t be filling a hole; we’d be (hopefully) upgrading from a center who’d start on most playoff teams.

A top 10 pick, to upgrade from an under-contract, competent, 28-29 yr old center to a hopefully even-better center, on a last place Jets team with how many far more pressing needs? It’s a ridiculously poor allocation of assets.

[varjet]

9 hours ago, Beerfish said:

That is lovely when it works, however for every nice oline built from lower end guys there is a legion of cam clarks, and jarvis harrisons, chum edogas etc.

O line is like any other position, if you use high picks on it you have a better chance of getting better players.

I agree with this and JD needs to play the cards he has.  Finding FA OL are not easy and expensive-AVT is 1/3 the piece of Thuney.   The Jets OL pipeline is uncertain.  If we want this unit to continue and get better, drafting one may be the best option.  To me it is just a question of whether JD thinks Karlaftis will have a bigger impact than one of the OL available.   If not than OL could be the call at 4, which means likely that Moses is not extended. 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, NYJets43 said:

OL is never a luxury pick. Good players are very tough to find and outside of Becton and AVT no Jet OL is under contract beyond 2022. The Cowboys invested 3 first round picks in OL and that set them up pretty Well. 
 

It may not be the teams biggest need, but that seems to where the strength of this draft it. 

 

Then sign someone else if it means keeping our highest picks to use elsewhere.

I’m not sure where it comes from, this idea that only having very young, recently-drafted, upper 1st round OLmen is some proven (or even good) way of team-building. Maybe it sounds good to say it because of phrases like “from the inside out” or “bookend tackles” or because of the team having so many good individuals back when they were man-blocking (and even then weren’t dumb enough to dip into that well with 3 picks in round 1). But a team needs a whole good team not just 1 really strong position group and scraps for the rest. That strong OL from 10+ yrs ago was worthless without a top 5 (if not #1) defense, if not Revis alone, and it’s conveniently forgotten.

***

The Cowboys — which Cowboys - the one that won those superbowls? 

• They had ZERO 1st round OLmen. They drafted their pro bowl C in round 3 (eventually replacing him with a 37 yr old FA who also made 2 probowls for them); their all-pro RT also in round 3 (two years later); their HOF guard in round 2; an UDFA all pro LG; and an UDFA probowl LT. Not a 1st round OL among them. 

The Cowbowys that won zero playoff games? Before drafting any of those 3 (only the LT taken in the top half of round 1 btw, which matters), they already had drated or otherwise in place:

• A pro bowl QB, pro bowl RB, two pro bowl WRs, pro bowl TE, pro bowl NT, a solid (when playing) future all pro ILB, pro bowl 34DE, and 4x all pro EDGE olb.

So yes repeatedly taking OL in round 1 was a luxury, spent by a team that had that luxury, on a team that bears no resemblance to this Jets roster. First you show me 9 pro bowlers among the 17 non-OL starters on the 2022 Jets, and I’ll then say interior OL is a value pick at #10 overall.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, varjet said:

I agree with this and JD needs to play the cards he has.  Finding FA OL are not easy and expensive-AVT is 1/3 the piece of Thuney.   The Jets OL pipeline is uncertain.  If we want this unit to continue and get better, drafting one may be the best option.  To me it is just a question of whether JD thinks Karlaftis will have a bigger impact than one of the OL available.   If not than OL could be the call at 4, which means likely that Moses is not extended. 

There are several iOL FAs this year - at center, in particular - and, because they’re >30, won’t be super expensive. And yes Moses won’t be super-expensive either, in comparison to other tackles. If they can re-sign him for $8MM it’s a no-brainer. Expensive, in the tackle world, is $15-25MM/yr. $8MM is a bargain for a reliable starter. I don’t expect him back, but that’d be a mistake.

Also if a pipeline is what you seek, you don’t build a pipeline with immediate starters in upper round 1. You build a pipeline with later picks.

1. They sit on the bench as rookies, cutting the lousy picks along the way, as most will suck, so you’ll need to try again next year. Maybe the pipeline player even sits year 2 also (depending on the starter or need).
2. Then the young, cheap pipeline guy then takes over when the starter declines or becomes too expensive.
3. Then draft others in the middle/later rounds and repeat the process at other positions in that group. 
4. As one starter reaches veteran contract, it’s back-weighted so it doesn’t hit hard until the next pipeline player (at that position group) takes over: you extend that first pipeline starter for his first veteran contract while creating a pipeline at another position in that group. 

That’s if it’s executed properly. It’s not so easy, though, as it gets harder to hit on those later picks; especially if taken much later. But meanwhile I think that’s where most current, starting centers come from. GMs hate allocating huge cap space or very high picks on non-premium positions like center.

[NYJets43]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Then sign someone else if it means keeping our highest picks to use elsewhere.

I’m not sure where it comes from, this idea that only having very young, recently-drafted, upper 1st round OLmen is some proven (or even good) way of team-building. Maybe it sounds good to say it because of phrases like “from the inside out” or “bookend tackles” or because of the team having so many good individuals back when they were man-blocking (and even then weren’t dumb enough to dip into that well with 3 picks in round 1). But a team needs a whole good team not just 1 really strong position group and scraps for the rest. That strong OL from 10+ yrs ago was worthless without a top 5 (if not #1) defense, if not Revis alone, and it’s conveniently forgotten.

***

The Cowboys — which Cowboys - the one that won those superbowls? 

• They had ZERO 1st round OLmen. They drafted their pro bowl C in round 3 (eventually replacing him with a 37 yr old FA who also made 2 probowls for them); their all-pro RT also in round 3 (two years later); their HOF guard in round 2; an UDFA all pro LG; and an UDFA probowl LT. Not a 1st round OL among them. 

The Cowbowys that won zero playoff games? Before drafting any of those 3 (only the LT taken in the top half of round 1 btw, which matters), they already had drated or otherwise in place:

• A pro bowl QB, pro bowl RB, two pro bowl WRs, pro bowl TE, pro bowl NT, a solid (when playing) future all pro ILB, pro bowl 34DE, and 4x all pro EDGE olb.

So yes repeatedly taking OL in round 1 was a luxury, spent by a team that had that luxury, on a team that bears no resemblance to this Jets roster. First you show me 9 pro bowlers among the 17 non-OL starters on the 2022 Jets, and I’ll then say interior OL is a value pick at #10 overall.

Sperm,

Interior OL is a value pick. Did you see what Joe Thuney got paid? 
 

You also have to ignore the Becton pick. The Jets can’t count on him so in reality you are looking at one first round pick OL. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, NYJets43 said:

Sperm,

Interior OL is a value pick. Did you see what Joe Thuney got paid? 
 

You also have to ignore the Becton pick. The Jets can’t count on him so in reality you are looking at one first round pick OL. 

First, all iOL aren’t equal: center is a lower value pick than guard, and guards are lower value picks than at least half a dozen other positions. They can’t ALL be value picks otherwise there’s no such thing as a value pick.

Never mind you judge a position’s value based on how much it costs to get a rock-solid starter in there, not how much the single most expensive starter got in FA. Thuney got $16MM/yr as a UFA when teams could get into a bidding war to drive his price up. Lost in this is that 6 offseasons ago the Jets had to pony up more than that per year to extend their probowl DE (who couldn’t get competing bids). While not great, it probably wasn’t a bad deal if Mo kept playing at that level, and the cap in 2016 was >$50MM less than it’ll be in 2022. Proportionally, Thuney got much less.

Individual exceptions aside (e.g. pointing out busts & pointing out the singularly rare), DE is a value position in the draft. Guard is not. 

• An average top-10 starting center makes $10MM/yr. Top 5 centers don’t get much more than that; maybe $12-13MM. (That makes signing them as UFAs a good value, and why we should’ve overbid for Linsley, especially with all this cap space, and why drafting them high is poor value).
• Proportionally for guard, you can add $2-3MM/yr to that. $15-16MM for the top probowl guards.
• For DE? Carl Lawson is a 3rd tier DE (good not great, when he plays) and he got almost the same deal that Thuney got as the highest $ guard of all time, in the same offseason.
• Top DEs get $20-25MM. Top edge OLBs $20-28MM. Top DTs get $17-23MM. Top QBs get $35-45MM. Top WRs $20-27MM. Top CBs $17-20MM. 

You seeing the massive difference between that value and a ****ing center? The top 2 veteran contract centers COMBINED get less than the top EDGE DE/OLB or WR. That’s why it’s terrible value in round 1 and if center’s such a massive team need then go buy one and it even pays to overpay a little. Then draft an actual value pick so you don’t have to spend $20-25MM in FA. 

If one’s a baller in coverage, safety is quite easily a better value pick than a center, too. Just don’t take a safety when you have no QB. Like the Jets.

[sec101row23]

Kingburry has trouble finishing.   
 

 

 

[section314]

4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Kingburry has trouble finishing.   
 

 

 

Definitely more than a hiccup. Pretty clear indication that teams catch up to the offense and that he has trouble revamping it. What's even more troubling, they weren't even competitive last night. Another vacancy coming?

[sec101row23]

11 minutes ago, section314 said:

Definitely more than a hiccup. Pretty clear indication that teams catch up to the offense and that he has trouble revamping it. What's even more troubling, they weren't even competitive last night. Another vacancy coming?

I highly doubt they move on from Kingsburry this year, especially since Kyler and Kliff are tied closely together.