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Quadruple Down on OL


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53 minutes ago, Alka said:

I love the idea of taking care of 1 position group for the next decade.  Taking Neal at #4, then Lindenbaum at #10 if he lasts that long would elevate the offensive line to one of the best in the NFL.

Similarly, taking Hamilton for safety, then Stingley at #4 and #10 would solidify the back end of the defense for years to come.  

Taking one of the premier edge rushers, then the top LB in the draft would solidify the front end of the defense for a long time.

If it were up to me, I would have to take the best edge rusher available at #4, and take the best available O lineman available at #10.  In the second round, take the best available players at the following positions:  1. Wide Receiver 2. linebacker 3. Tight end  4. cornerback  5. Safety.

So, whatever players were the best available at those position groups would be my choice for the 2 second round picks.

 

Just a question, in 2 years, when Becton needs a new contract (figuring he plays well of course), and 3 years, AVT, the 4 years with the two you want to draft, how do we pay Zach, Moore, Carter, and any of the DB's we decide to keep? You can't  spend your entire cap in one area. 

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Jets OL would be an above average NFL unit if it could ever stay healthy. Move Becton to RT, take another IOL in rounds 2-4.

the Jets need to focus on acquiring 2-3 new tight ends and getting another big target at WR (better version of Davis). 

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50 minutes ago, Alka said:

I love the idea of taking care of 1 position group for the next decade.  Taking Neal at #4, then Lindenbaum at #10 if he lasts that long would elevate the offensive line to one of the best in the NFL.

Then extend three or four first round OL over the next three-five years? Because that’s the only way you’ve fixed it for a decade, by pouring close to $100M a year into the group. 
 
At some point, it’s just not a good use of assets. They should only draft an OL in the first round if they’re done with Becton. Otherwise, shore it up in free agency and with later picks and focus on the Edge and weapons needs. Yesterday aside, the line isn’t the problem anymore. 

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35 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Yes - People are way too worried about yesterdays game.  This team needs playmakers on offense - which, incidentally, will make the offensive line a lot better when you have to worry about anyone getting the ball.

If you're taking an OT, it's because Becton is finished.  Fant was more than sufficient, and Becton takes over the right side.

100% and you have to hope more play makers help the other big factor which is Wilson.  As he improves, so will pass protection.  Master his drop backs, stop the fading, stop the eyes dropping down to look at the pressure, stop the turning your back to the LOS and suddenly the OL looks even better.  I expected him to see the field better next season and able to get the ball out faster.  The pocket stuff, the drop back consistency, staying in the pocket, etc. that's going to take some focused effort this offseason but if he improves on that, this unit could be even better than they were in 2022. 

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It would have been nice if our offensive play calling would have developed a safety valve for when the defense is blitzing like it did. or get Zach to realize that it is coming. i don't know which is the real problem.

Oh, and maybe develop a decent screen game, so that teams are just not pinning their ears back. 

I get that the Bills had no reason to respect a Jet deep threat yesterday, but at least give them something else to think about.

Jet screen game has been horrible for a long time.

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

We need guys that can get open and catch more than anything else.

 

WR's and TE's should be the priority this off-season.  More than anything else...

how are they gonna get the ball if Wilson doesnt have enough time to throw?

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3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

It would have been nice if our offensive play calling would have developed a safety valve for when the defense is blitzing like it did. or get Zach to realize that it is coming. i don't know which is the real problem.

 

I think the Center is supposed to help in identifying the blitz. we need a better C than McGovern

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1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

It has to be the responsibility of the qb to check out of the play to the safeyy valve, Assuming there is one.

So Mangold didnt help in identifying things? serious questions, because I think I remembered hearing somewhere that he did

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2 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

So Mangold didnt help in identifying things? serious questions, because I think I remembered hearing somewhere that he did

Yes, the center helps point out  blitzers and line schemes. But QB controls play switches and options and that includes understanding that the a blitz scheme requires quick action to the safety valve.

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3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I just fell like an OL like this is sufficient...

Fant - AVT - McGovern - LDT - Becton/Moses/FA

 

Seriously. 

When this starting 5 were all healthy, the Jets were fielding an above-average OL. I'm all for improving that even more, but when you're talking about top 10 picks you have to weigh the cost of improving 1/5 of an already good group vs improving a far greater need. 

2 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

I’d add another IOL as well.  There was horrible depth this season.  
 

The Dr is talking about quitting to be a Doctor, so that would be 2 IOL that need to be added.  

Improved depth is absolutely needed, but you take starters not depth in the first 2 rounds. Particularly when the first 4 picks are all top 10 in those rounds. The team was down to its #3 and #4 LTs though in recent weeks, so I don't know how much one can plan ahead for that. 

There are a bunch of starting centers hitting FA (more than usual). They may not have 10+ yr careers in front of them anymore at their age, but depth is a short-term thing anyway unless you get lucky hitting on day-3 draft picks (where you still don't truly know what they are until they're on the field in live action anyway).

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22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Seriously. 

When this starting 5 were all healthy, the Jets were fielding an above-average OL. I'm all for improving that even more, but when you're talking about top 10 picks you have to weigh the cost of improving 1/5 of an already good group vs improving a far greater need. 

Improved depth is absolutely needed, but you take starters not depth in the first 2 rounds. Particularly when the first 4 picks are all top 10 in those rounds. The team was down to its #3 and #4 LTs though in recent weeks, so I don't know how much one can plan ahead for that. 

There are a bunch of starting centers hitting FA (more than usual). They may not have 10+ yr careers in front of them anymore at their age, but depth is a short-term thing anyway unless you get lucky hitting on day-3 draft picks (where you still don't truly know what they are until they're on the field in live action anyway).

Yeah I wasn’t talking all draft - they just need to have a plan. Agreed you can’t expect the 4th string to be all stars.

If they don’t sign a good IOL free agent, they need one early and another late.  Unless they can keep the Doctor.  That adds flexibility.  

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Yesterday aside, the line isn’t the problem anymore. 

Yes, unfortunately you are correct.  The Jets need edge rusher, wide receiver, tight end, linebacker, safety and cornerback help.  

I still can't believe how Quincy Williams panned out for the Jets.  An amazing find, and makes the argument of not needing a linebacker in the first round of the draft a good one.  But I still think the Jets need a quality linebacker.  Davis ended up being a disappointment, and that is the reason we still need a linebacker.  Come to think of it, the disappointment of the other Davis is still the reason the Jets need another top wide receiver.

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2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't  understand why everyone wants  to give up on Becton as the LT. Fant filled in admirably but Becton has a much higher ceiling.  The injury this year was a freak accident. We drafted Becton to be the starting LT and Fant to be the depth guy. Fant has tremendous  value to this team and will be extended but I love having him as a plug and play OL. That is something Becton probably can't do. If anything you continue  to start Fant at RT and you can always move him later. We need to see what Becton can do. 

I don't think it's a matter of "giving up."  I think it's a matter of not giving him back the job from someone who's earned it.  Becton's injury may have been a fluke, but I don't think it's fair to consider his recovery that.  If it takes a whole season to recover from what could have been a 4 week injury for some, and the fact that he was taking himself out of games last year, and that he was abysmal in camp this year, there's plenty of reason to be concerned about Becton, and plenty of reason not to take the job from someone who performed well, solely based on draft status and perceived upside.

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1 hour ago, ZachEY said:

I don't think it's a matter of "giving up."  I think it's a matter of not giving him back the job from someone who's earned it.  Becton's injury may have been a fluke, but I don't think it's fair to consider his recovery that.  If it takes a whole season to recover from what could have been a 4 week injury for some, and the fact that he was taking himself out of games last year, and that he was abysmal in camp this year, there's plenty of reason to be concerned about Becton, and plenty of reason not to take the job from someone who performed well, solely based on draft status and perceived upside.

I don't think we are taking anything from Fant. He was brought here to be a starter after being a career reserve. He will still be a starter. If Becton gets injured long term again, fine, give Fant the job again, but imo Becton next to AVT has potential to be another Nate Newton-Erik Williams combo. We should at least find out if he can play the position.

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10 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Just a question, in 2 years, when Becton needs a new contract (figuring he plays well of course), and 3 years, AVT, the 4 years with the two you want to draft, how do we pay Zach, Moore, Carter, and any of the DB's we decide to keep? You can't  spend your entire cap in one area. 

EXACTLY!!

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9 hours ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

So Mangold didnt help in identifying things? serious questions, because I think I remembered hearing somewhere that he did

 

9 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Yes, the center helps point out  blitzers and line schemes. But QB controls play switches and options and that includes understanding that the a blitz scheme requires quick action to the safety valve.

I'm not for drafting 2 in the first, but Linderbaum fixes more with one pick with the OL. Then we can get other help in FA for the OL. This way we can focus on EDGE, WR and TE in the rest of the 1st and 2nd rounds.

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7 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't think we are taking anything from Fant. He was brought here to be a starter after being a career reserve. He will still be a starter. If Becton gets injured long term again, fine, give Fant the job again, but imo Becton next to AVT has potential to be another Nate Newton-Erik Williams combo. We should at least find out if he can play the position.

Who is we in this situation?

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what this oline needs most of all is to be injury free and experience playing together.  maybe a guard and or center spot can be upgraded but what they really lack is depth.  we saw it the whole season and the jets were very lucky that fant could play lt so well. this assume becton will come back strong but even there, at worst the jets can use one of their top 4 picks on oline.  no more than that.  they need to concentrate on game changers at edge, wr, lb, te and maybe db.

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On 1/10/2022 at 8:38 AM, Dunnie said:


I dont care about DL or Edge nearly as much. Like QB .. we need to find the guys that can dominate on OL... Vera Tucker is for real ... that about it.
 
I say take every goddam OL player in the fing draft and keep only the best.
 
Use our treasure trove of cap space to fill in the rest in FA.
 
Obviously i am being snarky .. but my sentiment is real.

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JD said in his press conference yesterday that he'll always value the LOS.  That could mean defense of course but I wouldn't be shocked if he took an OL either.  Will be interesting if Neal is available to us at #4.  I don't think he will be but there's certainly a chance.  As far as Linderbaum, if we don't take him at #4 (and I don't think we will based on Sperm's posts), then I think he's going to end up on the Giants at either #5 or #7.  If we could somehow guarantee Neal and Linderbaum, I honestly wouldn't mind it, even though it's probably crazy to pour so much draft capital into the OL.  But I'd love to build a dominant unit that can control the LOS.  A great OL helps the QB, the running game and even the defense (as the offense can play "keep away").  I realize the Colts had that and didn't even make the playoffs this year but I do feel like they're a team nobody would want to play against.  And if they had a QB better than Wentz (which hopefully ZW is) then maybe they could've been a real threat.  

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9 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Seriously,  you don't  know who I am referring to when I say we? 

I don't.

Because, for a few years I was told that "WE" being 'the fans' need to see what we have in Hackenberg.

We didn't.  The coaches saw him every day in practice and meetings.  They deemed he didn't deserve a snap.  They were right.

If "we" means, 'the Jets,' well, they have OTAs, training camp, preseason, practice, and the past two seasons to determine that perhaps a better line-up for this team has Fant at LT and Becton at RT.  I don't agree that you mess with that while trying to develop your young QB because you hope that Becton sh*tting his pants the entire offseason and then not being able to rehab was a mirage.

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In an all-time draft where we are drafting based on actual NFL careers, I would invest a ton of very valuable resources into the OL as I believe it's the most important fraction of an NFL team besides QB. 

In the actual draft where we are drafting based on potential NFL careers, I think JD needs to be done sinking any more valuable resources into the OL. Two first round picks over two years is great, and the opportunity costs are very real between spending more 1st rounders on the OL and what else can be had for a marginal drop-off in potential OL in later rounds. 

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On 1/10/2022 at 9:17 AM, JiFapono said:

Why would you take that sarcastically?  When healthy, it's by far the best unit on the team.  Head and shoulders better than every other unit.  Legit, not close.  Bring back Becton/Fant/AVT/LDT/Moses/McGovern and the OL is once again the strength of the team.  If you want to upgrade an IOL spot, ok cool, I I wont argue but I would absolutely not use a 1st round pick on OL.  It's the least of the Jets priorities.  

 

It's interesting you'd say that because "when healthy" in training camp most reports indicated the DL was eating the OL's lunch.

That said the OL dramatically improved over the course of the season.

How much JD invests in the OL will be interesting as it's clearly been a priority for him. I'm curious how much of a finished product he thinks it is.

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29 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I don't.

Because, for a few years I was told that "WE" being 'the fans' need to see what we have in Hackenberg.

We didn't.  The coaches saw him every day in practice and meetings.  They deemed he didn't deserve a snap.  They were right.

If "we" means, 'the Jets,' well, they have OTAs, training camp, preseason, practice, and the past two seasons to determine that perhaps a better line-up for this team has Fant at LT and Becton at RT.  I don't agree that you mess with that while trying to develop your young QB because you hope that Becton sh*tting his pants the entire offseason and then not being able to rehab was a mirage.

If we went by training camp, OTA's and preseason to determine what we ha e in Zach, how would that have gone? Of wait, we did. It culminated in not bringing in a competent vet back up and when the Jets were forced to because he was injured, we resigned a guy that was here last season for a draft pick. Obviously the Jets did not have a good feel for the QB position without seeing live action, what makes you think LT will be different in terms of Becton?

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I’d add another IOL as well.  There was horrible depth this season.  
 
The Dr is talking about quitting to be a Doctor, so that would be 2 IOL that need to be added.  
LDT did not mention quitting. He said he needs to clarify his situation as he has not yet met the standard expectations of a prospective doctor - the rules likely don't factor in professional sports in any way. All he referred to was sorting out some sort of exemption with the Canadian medical board - i.e. so he can keep playing football.

His situation is rather unique I'd imagine.

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16 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

If we went by training camp, OTA's and preseason to determine what we ha e in Zach, how would that have gone? Of wait, we did. It culminated in not bringing in a competent vet back up and when the Jets were forced to because he was injured, we resigned a guy that was here last season for a draft pick. Obviously the Jets did not have a good feel for the QB position without seeing live action, what makes you think LT will be different in terms of Becton?

FA was already over by the time we got to training camp, OTAs, and preseason.  That decision re: Wilson was already made.

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1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

In an all-time draft where we are drafting based on actual NFL careers, I would invest a ton of very valuable resources into the OL as I believe it's the most important fraction of an NFL team besides QB. 

In the actual draft where we are drafting based on potential NFL careers, I think JD needs to be done sinking any more valuable resources into the OL. Two first round picks over two years is great, and the opportunity costs are very real between spending more 1st rounders on the OL and what else can be had for a marginal drop-off in potential OL in later rounds. 

JD’s job security depends on the Jets being able to score touchdowns. He’s pumped a lot into the line already. Skill positions are the biggest need in this draft. The defense can come later. Get some depth on offense for once.

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44 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

FA was already over by the time we got to training camp, OTAs, and preseason.  That decision re: Wilson was already made.

The Jets knew they were taking Wilson before training camp. Regardless Wilson looked the part all through all that stuff and it was a poor indicator. Will be no different for Becton  

 

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