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Every Throw from Zach Wilson Week 18 vs Bills


Spoot-Face
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25 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

For those that want to see it. Only highlights are the TD to Cole and the throw to Black. The rest is 90% Zach running around like a Benny Hill skit after the pocket collapses, and 10% receivers dropping balls. Wilson really wasn't super off-target this game.

After thinking about it, I kinda give him a pass for his constant back peddling, trying to keep the play alive, considering:

1) this was a meaningless game and last game of the season

2) he had sh*t receivers and an O-line that couldn't protect him

3) most importantly, he had shown in the previous games that he's cutting down on that, and is learning when/how to step up in the pocket/throw it away, so I'm not as concerned that it's going to carry into next season.

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23 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

For those that want to see it. Only highlights are the TD to Cole and the throw to Black. The rest is 90% Zach running around like a Benny Hill skit after the pocket collapses, and 10% receivers dropping balls. Wilson really wasn't super off-target this game.

After thinking about it, I kinda give him a pass for his constant back peddling, trying to keep the play alive, considering:

1) this was a meaningless game and last game of the season

2) he had sh*t receivers and an O-line that couldn't protect him

3) most importantly, he had shown in the previous games that he's cutting down on that, and is learning when/how to step up in the pocket/throw it away, so I'm not as concerned that it's going to carry into next season.

Numerous times Zach had guys open underneath and he chose to scramble rather than just dump the ball off. This is why you have a completion percentage of 35 and no Int's . Vs the Bills. The strategy should have been clear, drop back and get the ball out , if no one is open throw it way . Its obvious he's still doing the same thing he did early in the year and that's to strike downfield only difference is he's throwing it away now or getting sacked for losses and IMHO that's not progress that's just avoiding the interception, while still not playing the position correctly

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6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Just not true.

Absolutely true I saw guys underneath that were open one was on a big play late in the third early 4th cant remember and he had Mims standing right in front of him wide open on a 3rd down and he turned and ran away from pressure rather than getting some positive yards. You can't do that and win in this league. Im sure more revealing issues will show up on the All-22 .Even with all the pressure he had 35 % is unacceptable as are 9 sacks when all you had to do was throw the ball away or attempt a short pass in tight coverage. Fact is he's afraid of tight coverage because his accuracy is terrible and its atrocious under any pressure at all. I got news for you, in big games there is going to be pressure if you can't over come that you can't play QB in the NFL. 

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He dropped back - planted his feet (just about every throw) - took a step up to throw -  and only then starting moving back after no one was open.

Looking at this verify's what I thought I saw during the game. 

Guys simply weren't getting open and the pocket collapsed almost immediately.

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8 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Numerous times Zach had guys open underneath and he chose to scramble rather than just dump the ball off. This is why you have a completion percentage of 35 and no Int's . Vs the Bills. The strategy should have been clear, drop back and get the ball out , if no one is open throw it way . Its obvious he's still doing the same thing he did early in the year and that's to strike downfield only difference is he's throwing it away now or getting sacked for losses and IMHO that's not progress that's just avoiding the interception, while still not playing the position correctly

For sure, he left a ton of plays on the field.  Didnt seem like he was seeing the field well yesterday.  Not sure how much of that was a trust factor based on who was out there of if he was just trying to do to much or what but he was definitely not pulling the trigger on easy completions seemingly looking for the bigger play that wasnt there and holding the ball too long.  He has to know when they're bringing the heat, just take the underneath stuff and try to continue to get better down and distances.  

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The kid was trying to just get out of there alive. Draft or FA OL OL OL and WR’s and TE who can catch a ball. If not the kid will be taking 20 yard sacks the whole season. I’m no Zach apologist but unless that gets fixed he will only regress. No QB can survive with that mess. 

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21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Trading INT's for "Benny Hill" and Sacks is an improvement, of sorts, but it's still not good enough.  

I've never seen an NFL QB do all the "blind man tried to catch a fly ball" spin and backpedal that Zach did on Sunday.

Drop back, properly perform your reads, throw to the open man or throw your man open (something franchise QB's can do), run, or throw it away.

Yeah, I was not happy with it in real time, but if he hadn't shown better awareness the past few games, I'd be really worried. I'm hoping that this was just a "one-off" due to last-game-of-a-lost-season heroics. Get ready for a long offseason, lol.

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4 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Absolutely true I saw guys underneath that were open one was on a big play late in the third early 4th cant remember and he had Mims standing right in front of him wide open on a 3rd down and he turned and ran away from pressure rather than getting some positive yards. You can't do that and win in this league. Im sure more revealing issues will show up on the All-22 .Even with all the pressure he had 35 % is unacceptable as are 9 sacks when all you had to do was throw the ball away or attempt a short pass in tight coverage. Fact is he's afraid of tight coverage because his accuracy is terrible and its atrocious under any pressure at all. I got news for you, in big games there is going to be pressure if you can't over come that you can't play QB in the NFL. 

Well, they're all there...you don't have to remember - show me where all these guys were wide open and Zach decided to scramble instead.   I'm interested to see these open WR's all over the place where there was a window for Wilson to throw the ball.  I didn't see them - but I could be definitely missing something....

Also, show me all these times he just backed up (I saw one)  without first stepping up in the pocket.   He dropped, stopped, stepped up and then backed ups - when nothing was there or there was pressure in his face...

This was NOTHING like he was early in the year - honestly.  early in the year it was simply backing up - this was different. 

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9 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Absolutely true I saw guys underneath that were open one was on a big play late in the third early 4th cant remember and he had Mims standing right in front of him wide open on a 3rd down and he turned and ran away from pressure rather than getting some positive yards. You can't do that and win in this league. Im sure more revealing issues will show up on the All-22 .Even with all the pressure he had 35 % is unacceptable as are 9 sacks when all you had to do was throw the ball away or attempt a short pass in tight coverage. Fact is he's afraid of tight coverage because his accuracy is terrible and its atrocious under any pressure at all. I got news for you, in big games there is going to be pressure if you can't over come that you can't play QB in the NFL. 

The coverage on the TD pass to Cole couldn't have been tighter, nor the pass any more accurate. 

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1 minute ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

The kid was trying to just get out of there alive. Draft or FA OL OL OL and WR’s and TE who can catch a ball. If not the kid will be taking 20 yard sacks the whole season. I’m no Zach apologist but unless that gets fixed he will only regress. No QB can survive with that mess. 

At some point you have to realize pressure is going to come you step in the pocket and get that ball out even in tight coverage and Zach did not do that. He still has not learned to take the short stuff. vs the Bills you have to stand in not run in the opposite direction and hope when you get your eyes back downfield someone becomes open. 

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17 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Numerous times Zach had guys open underneath and he chose to scramble rather than just dump the ball off. This is why you have a completion percentage of 35 and no Int's . Vs the Bills. The strategy should have been clear, drop back and get the ball out , if no one is open throw it way . Its obvious he's still doing the same thing he did early in the year and that's to strike downfield only difference is he's throwing it away now or getting sacked for losses and IMHO that's not progress that's just avoiding the interception, while still not playing the position correctly

Admittedly, I did not watch every play closely enough to notice who was open when. And I'm not super inclined to either. I'm not really defending Zach here, but my main point is if he had not already demonstrated the past few games that he's learning "The Way of the White" and taking his checkdowns, I'd be more concerned. Like I said, I hope this was just a special occasion, being the final game in a lost season, and that he wouldn't be trying to play this hero ball in different circumstances. But I was having the same response as you while watching the game real time.

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1 minute ago, section314 said:

The coverage on the TD pass to Cole couldn't have been tighter, nor the pass any more accurate. 

Are you really going to make a case with 1 pass ? If that was the case, which it was, then he should have been getting the ball out quicker all game to nullify that rush and he didn't. 

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1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Are you really going to make a case with 1 pass ? If that was the case, which it was, then he should have been getting the ball out quicker all game to nullify that rush and he didn't. 

Was just rebutting the fact that he is afraid of tight coverage. Of course he could have played better. 

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3 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

At some point you have to realize pressure is going to come you step in the pocket and get that ball out even in tight coverage and Zach did not do that. He still has not learned to take the short stuff. vs the Bills you have to stand in not run in the opposite direction and hope when you get your eyes back downfield someone becomes open. 

Agreed he will drop back or run up the pocket. He is not trusting his OL himself or his WR’s. Just think he gets flustered when things break down and tries to play hero ball. He needs a good OL to learn how to manipulate the pocket better. When he has multiple free rushers he shuts down.  

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5 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Agreed he will drop back or run up the pocket. He is not trusting his OL himself or his WR’s. Just think he gets flustered when things break down and tries to play hero ball. He needs a good OL to learn how to manipulate the pocket better. When he has multiple free rushers he shuts down.  

I find the bolded statements to be almost comical...

  1. Not trusting his 4th, 5th and 6th string WR - one of which was signed off the street 3 days ago (as if he' s supposed to)
  2. Not trusting his OL - with 2nd and 3rd string players at 4 of the 5.  (As if he's supposed to)
  3. When he has "multiple" free rushers he shuts down (as if he's supposed to do something more)

I would think you were kidding here if I didn't know better.

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13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Where?

If you were capable of having an objective conversation regarding Zach Wilson maybe I'd show you all the plays he passed on the underneath stuff and either took a sack, scrambled or went somewhere else with the ball.  It was especially bad in the 2nd half.   You're just not capable of being unbiased, so it's not worth my time.

That said, it's all good.  I'm not discouraged about his performance.  Lots of factors to consider in this one and while he played awful, I can also understand there is a trust factor as young QB that he probably didnt have yesterday which impacted his decision making and his internal clock. 

It was a bad game, after a string of a few decent ones, I'm not going to stress. 

 

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14 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Where?

I watched that video and NUMEROUS times he had guys open underneath and wide open and he decided to leave the pocket. He was terrible if you ask me. Early on the pressure was not all that bad it progressively got worse as the Bills turned up the heat because Zach refused to get the ball out of his damn hands. The Bills were taking away the intermediate game just like Cincy did vs MW and Zach did not take what was given to him and even most of his short throws were dreadfully off the mark. His accuracy is terrible as is his decision making. 

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1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

For those that want to see it. Only highlights are the TD to Cole and the throw to Black. The rest is 90% Zach running around like a Benny Hill skit after the pocket collapses, and 10% receivers dropping balls. Wilson really wasn't super off-target this game.

After thinking about it, I kinda give him a pass for his constant back peddling, trying to keep the play alive, considering:

1) this was a meaningless game and last game of the season

2) he had sh*t receivers and an O-line that couldn't protect him

3) most importantly, he had shown in the previous games that he's cutting down on that, and is learning when/how to step up in the pocket/throw it away, so I'm not as concerned that it's going to carry into next season.

Lost in this is the possibility - note I didn't say likelihood - that the coaches told him do what you can. Idea being that, even if it's a low percentage chance of escaping and completing a downfield pass, that still compares favorably to knowingly throwing the ball away, which carries a 0% chance of success. 

It was ugly all around, though, no doubt about it.

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Just now, JiFapono said:

If you were capable of having an objective conversation regarding Zach Wilson maybe I'd show you all the plays he passed on the underneath stuff and either took a sack, scrambled or went somewhere else with the ball.  It was especially bad in the 2nd half.   You're just not capable of being unbiased, so it's not worth my time.

That said, it's all good.  I'm not discouraged about his performance.  Lots of factors to consider in this one and while he played awful, I can also understand there is a trust factor as young QB that he probably didnt have yesterday which impacted his decision making and his internal clock. 

It was a bad game, after a string of a few decent ones, I'm not going to stress. 

 

Show me?

I'm totally capable.  I am really interested - maybe I can learn. 

I saw a couple open on 3rd and 13 for 3 yards that he could have taken - otherwise it's just not there. 

If you want to attack the kid it's fine, been kinda your thing - but when the video evidence is literally in the same thread it's tough to simply write off.

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This is the type of game where the “weapinz” crew really loses me.  I truly believe that some think Aaron Rodgers or Mahomes are coming in to the exact same situation yesterday and dramatically changing the offensive output.  I personally think that is absurd.  
 

Does Zach need to improve a lot on his pocket presence and propensity to drift? Absolutely.  Should yesterday be the example to show that? Absolutely not.

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3 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I watched that video and NUMEROUS times he had guys open underneath and wide open and he decided to leave the pocket. He was terrible if you ask me. Early on the pressure was not all that bad it progressively got worse as the Bills turned up the heat because Zach refused to get the ball out of his damn hands. The Bills were taking away the intermediate game just like Cincy did vs MW and Zach did not take what was given to him and even most of his short throws were dreadfully off the mark. His accuracy is terrible as is his decision making. 

Where?

There's a timer on the screen and video - I am truly interested to see all of these wide open receivers underneath that Zach could have had.  

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