Every Throw from Zach Wilson Week 18 vs Bills

[Sperm Edwards]

23 hours ago, JiFapono said:

If you were capable of having an objective conversation regarding Zach Wilson maybe I'd show you all the plays he passed on the underneath stuff and either took a sack, scrambled or went somewhere else with the ball.  It was especially bad in the 2nd half.   You're just not capable of being unbiased, so it's not worth my time.

That said, it's all good.  I'm not discouraged about his performance.  Lots of factors to consider in this one and while he played awful, I can also understand there is a trust factor as young QB that he probably didnt have yesterday which impacted his decision making and his internal clock. 

It was a bad game, after a string of a few decent ones, I'm not going to stress. 

 

I kind of lean this way, too. Some of those isolated plays are easy to say when we have the benefit of watching film not after just having seen the line collapse again from his perspective. For a player it's not as easy to erase from memory, and we're talking about a rookie here (one who was quite arguably promoted too early, at that). 

The overall situation itself, all game long, isn't likely to repeat itself season-long next year or any year, and if it does they're not winning a lot of games even if someone else might have completed another 3-5 dumpoff passes (assuming all of them were caught, too). 

This was not a pro offense we fielded, against one of the game's top defenses (if not its best one right now), so it's a shoulder shrug for me as well. Not to mention, even QBs far better & more accomplished/experienced than Wilson have bleh days, too.

[jetswinbaby!]

Pocket?

What Pocket?

I don't see no Pocket...

[Smashmouth]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Show me?

I'm totally capable.  I am really interested - maybe I can learn. 

I saw a couple open on 3rd and 13 for 3 yards that he could have taken - otherwise it's just not there. 

If you want to attack the kid it's fine, been kinda your thing - but when the video evidence is literally in the same thread it's tough to simply write off.

You are confusing attack with the truth. Zach has had a terrible season and what's being confused is that he somehow has improved. So he played Horrid and improved to playing bad and I'm supposed to be okay with Bad ? He has has some decent games but nothing where I would say wow look at that . Not once this season did I feel comfortable as a fan with Zach behind center and towards the end of the season I never really saw him turning the corner . Can you name one game where he played Really good or above average ? Or is improving from crap the new great in Jets land ? I know he's a rookie but I would have expected at least 1 or 2 games where he just lit it up kind of like Mike White did !

[Spoot-Face]

15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Lost in this is the possibility - note I didn't say likelihood - that the coaches told him do what you can. Idea being that, even if it's a low percentage chance of escaping and completing a downfield pass, that still compares favorably to knowingly throwing the ball away, which carries a 0% chance of success. 

It was ugly all around, though, no doubt about it.

True. Last game of the year, in a lost season, against a division opponent, after going 0-11 against division opponents, with the chance of hurting said opponents playoff seeding, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that Saleh and LaFleur said to Zach, "let's give 'em a show."

If Ty Johnson hadn't slipped when Zach directed him upfield, that woulda been a highlight play.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, Smashmouth said:

You are confusing attack with the truth. Zach has had a terrible season and what's being confused is that he somehow has improved. So he played Horrid and improved to playing bad and I'm supposed to be okay with Bad ? He has has some decent games but nothing where I would say wow look at that . Not once this season did I feel comfortable as a fan with Zach behind center and towards the end of the season I never really saw him turning the corner . Can you name one game where he played Really good or above average ? Or is improving from crap the new great in Jets land ? I know he's a rookie but I would have expected at least 1 or 2 games where he just lit it up kind of like Mike White did !

No, I'm simply asking you to back up the claim that he had WR's open all over the field yesterday and simply didn't throw it to them.

Nothing more than that.  Plenty of other threads to have these other conversations...

There's a video in the thread - that video has a timer on it - show me the many times where Wilson had guys open, and it made sense, and he didn't throw it to them.

 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Trading INT's for "Benny Hill" and Sacks is an improvement, of sorts, but it's still not good enough.  

I've never seen an NFL QB do all the "blind man tried to catch a fly ball" spin and backpedal that Zach did on Sunday.

Drop back, properly perform your reads, throw to the open man or throw your man open (something franchise QB's can do), run, or throw it away.

 

He had time to make reads?  He had open men?  Should have just thrown them open?  
‘Seriously?

[FTL Jet Fan]

23 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I find the bolded statements to be almost comical...

1. Not trusting his 4th, 5th and 6th string WR - one of which was signed off the street 3 days ago (as if he' s supposed to)
2. Not trusting his OL - with 2nd and 3rd string players at 4 of the 5.  (As if he's supposed to)
3. When he has "multiple" free rushers he shuts down (as if he's supposed to do something more)

I would think you were kidding here if I didn't know better.

The three items you listed is exact Why he needs a solid OL and WR’s that catch the ball. He will only regress if that dose not happen. He showed progress as his OL improved over the season. Maybe look at my previous comments on drafting or signing  OL and WR’s that can catch, especially with our injury luck.

 

 

 

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

The three items you listed is exact Why he needs a solid OL and WR’s that catch the ball. He will only regress if that dose not happen. He showed progress as his OL improved over the season. Maybe look at my previous comments on drafting or signing  OL and WR’s that can catch, especially with our injury luck.

 

 

 

Fair enough...I misunderstood.  I get it...Yes, they have some real problem at some key positions.

I think this whole idea that someone Zach was at fault for yesterday's debacle is insane to me...My fault!

[Smashmouth]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I kind of lean this way, too. Some of those isolated plays are easy to say when we have the benefit of watching film not after just having seen the line collapse. For a player it's not as easy to erase from memory, and we're talking about a rookie here (one who was quite arguably promoted too early, at that). 

The overall situation itself, all game long, isn't likely to repeat itself season-long next year or any year, and if it does they're not winning a lot of games even if someone else might have completed another 3-5 passes (assuming all of them were caught, too). 

This was not a pro offense we fielded, against one of the game's top defenses (if not its best one right now), so it's a shoulder shrug for me, too. Not to mention, even QBs far better & more accomplished/experienced than Wilson have bleh days, too.

So the excuses vs Buffalo come out full force for Zach but they some how exposed Mike White ? I'm not saying this is what you are doing here nor do I mean to imply it I'm directing this to the  blinded Zach Supporters who bashed White because of his 252 yards 4int's vs this same Buffalo team. White never got a chance again and he's got 6 less starts than Zach and also what could be considered a rookie since this was the first year he actually got a start.. While White made some bad throws into coverage in that game he still was able to move the team and throw for the third most yards of any QB vs the Bills.

Same supporters who said to me a few days ago lets see how Zach does vs the Bills in comparision to MW My conclusion is MW looked much more in control than Zach did with 3 or 4 i'll advised throws. Conclusion is at least White made the throws or tried too while Zach just seemed to play in fear for the entire game .

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Zach just seemed to play in fear for the entire game .

Where?

[Smashmouth]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

No, I'm simply asking you to back up the claim that he had WR's open all over the field yesterday and simply didn't throw it to them.

Nothing more than that.  Plenty of other threads to have these other conversations...

There's a video in the thread - that video has a timer on it - show me the many times where Wilson had guys open, and it made sense, and he didn't throw it to them.

 

Sorry Fidelio Im not going to do that ...watch the video and you should be able to see all the check downs Zach had available to him 

[Maxman]

54 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

For sure, he left a ton of plays on the field.  Didnt seem like he was seeing the field well yesterday.  Not sure how much of that was a trust factor based on who was out there of if he was just trying to do to much or what but he was definitely not pulling the trigger on easy completions seemingly looking for the bigger play that wasnt there and holding the ball too long.  He has to know when they're bringing the heat, just take the underneath stuff and try to continue to get better down and distances.  

In fairness they should have introduced him to the receivers before the game. Having them shaking hands and meet for the first time in the huddle almost led to a delay of game penalty. 

The TV footage was horrible yesterday. They should have been showing the coverage consistently after these sacks. That is why I like going to the games, you choose what to watch.

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Sorry Fidelio Im not going to do that ...watch the video and you should be able to see all the check downs Zach had available to him 

Of course you're not.  

 

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

So the excuses vs Buffalo come out full force for Zach but they some how exposed Mike White ? I'm not saying this is what you are doing here nor do I mean to imply it I'm directing this to the  blinded Zach Supporters who bashed White because of his 252 yards 4int's vs this same Buffalo team. White never got a chance again and he's got 6 less starts than Zach and also what could be considered a rookie since this was the first year he actually got a start.. While White made some bad throws into coverage in that game he still was able to move the team and throw for the third most yards of any QB vs the Bills.

Same supporters who said to me a few days ago lets see how Zach does vs the Bills in comparision to MW My conclusion is MW looked much more in control than Zach did with 3 or 4 i'll advised throws. Conclusion is at least White made the throws or tried too while Zach just seemed to play in fear for the entire game .

White had his OL & WRs in that game.  

He lost the job because it wasn’t his

[FidelioJet]

Just now, Maxman said:

In fairness they should have introduced him to the receivers before the game. Having them shaking hands and meet for the first time in the huddle almost led to a delay of game penalty. 

The TV footage was horrible yesterday. They should have been showing the coverage consistently after these sacks. That is why I like going to the games, you choose what to watch.

I agree.

They went to a couple of times - and it was glaring.  Should have done it more...

[Smashmouth]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He had time to make reads?  He had open men?  Should have just thrown them open?  
‘Seriously?

Some QB;'s can actually make throws into tight coverage 5-10 yards out and those throws were there and Zach chose to try and extend plays while the Bills were taking the intermediate game away from him. Zach had one choice as dictated by the Bills and that was to take the check down game until the Bills started to actually defend it and instead Zach chose to play right into their hands.

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He had time to make reads?  He had open men?  Should have just thrown them open?  
‘Seriously?

Do you think there is anything at all Zach could have done better yesterday?

If not, I don't think there is anything I could say to you that would change your viewpoint.

If you're happy with what you saw from Zach yesterday, great.  

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Absolutely true I saw guys underneath that were open one was on a big play late in the third early 4th cant remember and he had Mims standing right in front of him wide open on a 3rd down and he turned and ran away from pressure rather than getting some positive yards. You can't do that and win in this league. Im sure more revealing issues will show up on the All-22 .Even with all the pressure he had 35 % is unacceptable as are 9 sacks when all you had to do was throw the ball away or attempt a short pass in tight coverage. Fact is he's afraid of tight coverage because his accuracy is terrible and its atrocious under any pressure at all. I got news for you, in big games there is going to be pressure if you can't over come that you can't play QB in the NFL. 

It looked like he had a lack of chemistry with his receivers. 

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

White had his OL & WRs in that game.  

He lost the job because it wasn’t his

I think one QB all year had a good game vs the Bills and that was Tom Brady but somehow Mike White with all of 3 starts was supposed to just keep playing really good then never get a chance again. Can't make this sh*t up.

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

It looked like he had a lack of chemistry with his receivers. 

you mean the check down 's that were standing wide open on numerous plays right in front of his face when he decided scrambling was the better option over a 5 yard dump off ?

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

It looked like he had a lack of chemistry with his receivers. 

It did!

 

I wonder why he hasn’t developed chemistry with . . . *checks notes* . . .Tarik Black? 

 

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Do you think there is anything at all Zach could have done better yesterday?

If not, I don't think there is anything I could say to you that would change your viewpoint.

If you're happy with what you saw from Zach yesterday, great.  

Every rookie can do things better.  I’m not blaming his night on poor performance over the OL issues and WR issues.  Have no clue how anyone can’t see that he or any QB wouldn’t stand a chance last night

[Wit]

The only thing he really could have done better was take the sacks or throw the balls away before trying to escape in those conditions. Otherwise he has no help, no protection, no run game, and he played the number one defense and they took it to them. 

[FTL Jet Fan]

12 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Fair enough...I misunderstood.  I get it...Yes, they have some real problem at some key positions.

I think this whole idea that someone Zach was at fault for yesterday's debacle is insane to me...My fault!

No worries, regardless who was at QB with that OL an WR bunch would not look much better. No ground game to speak is also telling. 

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Every rookie can do things better.

So what could Zach have done better yesterday, as you see it?

 

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I think one QB all year had a good game vs the Bills and that was Tom Brady but somehow Mike White with all of 3 starts was supposed to just keep playing really good then never get a chance again. Can't make this sh*t up.

MW had one good game and one drive to go with his bad game.  MW is not a rookie because these were his first starts, he’s a 4th year QB who has been taught, practiced & been in a QB for 4years. 

Players don’t lose their jobs to injury, especially because of one game.  You’re right, you can’t make this shlt up.  

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, Wit said:

The only thing he really could have done better was take the sacks or throw the balls away before trying to escape in those conditions. Otherwise he has no help, no protection, no run game, and he played the number one defense and they took it to them. 

some here see wilson running around and think he missed an opportunity to hit an open wr and instead chose that outcome.  I think what we’ve witnessed the past month is that the coaches have finally got through to him that he can’t force passes over the middle just because there’s pressure.  That’s what leads to turnovers and blowouts.  The same people here complaining that wilson ran around too much when the OL failed right away, these same folks would be calling wilson out if he forced a few passes and saw a few ints on tipped passes.  The jets were on the road with a scab offense against the top pass defense in the nfl.  Wilson was wise not to force anything yesterday.

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

So what could Zach have done better yesterday, as you see it?

 

I’m not playing this game.  
what I didn’t see is the list of cliches that were his fault that Ive responded to.  
You don’t like him, I get that.  

[ultraJETfan]

@Smashmouth go outside and smoke a marlboro and relax because you are embarrassing yourself

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, Wit said:

The only thing he really could have done better was take the sacks or throw the balls away before trying to escape in those conditions. Otherwise he has no help, no protection, no run game, and he played the number one defense and they took it to them. 

Would that have been better?

Seriously, I would really love to have seen this board - if Zach just took his 5 step drop, held the ball for 2.5 secs and then threw it away 90% of the time...

People would be calling for his head, far worse than what they're doing now.  He was in a can't win situation yesterday.

[FidelioJet]

14 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

you mean the check down 's that were standing wide open on numerous plays right in front of his face when he decided scrambling was the better option over a 5 yard dump off ?

Where?

[Ghost420]

This team was playing ******* mims as a wr this week and we expect a rookie qb to do anything? 

[Warfish]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

I’m not playing this game.

Well, it'll be quite hard to have a reasonable conversation on what Zach could do better if you can't or won't say what you think he could do better.  

I can only presume you can't think of a single thing he could do better, given this reply.

 

[ultraJETfan]

Just watched at 0.5x speed. I counted 4 missed check downs, all on 3rd and long, three of them had no shot at a 1st and one near the end that I felt he should've took anyways. And one on 1st or 2nd with Mims open underneath but it's Mims so I can understand looking past him for somebody else. 

Ridiculous brain dead fans with biased agendas. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Well, it'll be quite hard to have a reasonable conversation on what Zach could do better if you can't or won't say what you think he could do better.  

I can only presume you can't think of a single thing he could do better, given this reply.

 

Last nights game proved nothing about what he will or won’t be.  

‘I’m not feeding your hate by talking about where he could have been better.  You think he could have dropped back, properly performing his reads, while throwing to imaginary open receivers or throwing his man open under that rush, behind that line.  No QB could have done that last night. 
The post game show, who aren’t afraid to express themselves put none of it on ZW