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Every Throw from Zach Wilson Week 18 vs Bills


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51 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

You are confusing attack with the truth. Zach has had a terrible season and what's being confused is that he somehow has improved. So he played Horrid and improved to playing bad and I'm supposed to be okay with Bad ? He has has some decent games but nothing where I would say wow look at that . Not once this season did I feel comfortable as a fan with Zach behind center and towards the end of the season I never really saw him turning the corner . Can you name one game where he played Really good or above average ? Or is improving from crap the new great in Jets land ? I know he's a rookie but I would have expected at least 1 or 2 games where he just lit it up kind of like Mike White did !

The Tampa game is the only game I think he legitimately played well in.  He didn't put up great stats (I think 235 yards passing) but he did thread the needle a few times and he seemed a lot more composed and confident.  If he played like that the entire season (or for long stretches of the season) I'd feel good about him going into next year.  Instead I think we're basically going into next season hoping that he'll build on that performance.  It's hardly a guarantee though and I think QB remains a big question mark.  I'm glad I at least have that performance to cling to though.  

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51 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

you mean the check down 's that were standing wide open on numerous plays right in front of his face when he decided scrambling was the better option over a 5 yard dump off ?

Damn. If it was that easy against Buffalo’s #1 defense why didn’t everyone do  to that too? 

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6 minutes ago, Green hat said:

I just watched the video and I don't understand. Are these plays the issue?

0:55 3rd and 10 decided to run for it instead of a dump off/lateral to Ty Johnson.  Both he and Ty had defenders lined up.
3:26 3rd and 7 could have dumped it to Ty Johnson but again he had defenders close by.  First read was not open.
4:11 1st and 10 went for a longer throw near the first down instead of a short pass to Mims. Mims is actually open. His throw was low and it's hard to tell if it was catchable. 
4:22 3rd and 10 had about a 1 second window to come off his first read and dump it to Ty Johnson before getting hammered.

I saw a few drops on good throws as usual. The only real mistake IMO was running out of bounds before the field goal  What am I missing?

 

 

You're not missing anything.

Sure he wasn't perfect.  He should have thrown that one away before the FG - no doubt.  I know he knows that..

But there was really nothing at all he could do all game....anyone arguing otherwise is showing their obvious bias...

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1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

So when Mike White throws 4 picks against Buffalo ‘s D that’s courage? But when Zach throws zero that’s  fear.?Yet, Zach not taking the underneath stuff he’s playing hero ball? 

Thank you for being fair!

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Show me?

I'm totally capable.  I am really interested - maybe I can learn. 

I saw a couple open on 3rd and 13 for 3 yards that he could have taken - otherwise it's just not there. 

If you want to attack the kid it's fine, been kinda your thing - but when the video evidence is literally in the same thread it's tough to simply write off.

The bold is exactly why you're not capable and why I wont bother.  I've never attacked Zach Wilson.  I've shared my thoughts on his performances both negative and positive.  You take it as an "attack" because you're an over the top irrational apologist who gets butt hurt over any criticism.  Multiple people have noticed the same thing from this game in his very thread because quite frankly, it's clear as day to see and you refuse to acknowledge it.  It's so ridiculous that you typed that nonsense in response to the below:

 

Quote

 

That said, it's all good.  I'm not discouraged about his performance.  Lots of factors to consider in this one and while he played awful, I can also understand there is a trust factor as young QB that he probably didnt have yesterday which impacted his decision making and his internal clock. 

It was a bad game, after a string of a few decent ones, I'm not going to stress. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Zach has a lot to learn and a lot to improve in. It’s also ok to be worried about him and even believe he may not make the leap he needs for next year. But yesterdays game? Asinine to act like that is some sort of indicator. The Mike White stuff is bizarre at this point . Mike White had a pretty intact team. Zach had a mish mosh mess as receivers and the line. Thought it be fair our defense and Buffalo’s punter did more for Zach than Mike White. Haha 

Agree with all of this.

ZW still has a long way to go.  All I've ever said is that he continues to make progress.  And that's what we should be asking for - when he stops making progress then we should be worried...

It was always going to 2 steps forward 1 step back type thing and we should expect that to continue next year...

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1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

The bold is exactly why you're not capable and why I wont bother.  I've never attacked Zach Wilson.  I've shared my thoughts on his performances both negative and positive.  You take it as an "attack" because you're an over the top irrational apologist who gets butt hurt over any criticism.  Multiple people have noticed the same thing from this game in his very thread because quite frankly, it's clear as day to see and you refuse to acknowledge it.  It's so ridiculous that you typed that nonsense in response to the below:

 

 

Nah, if you're saying things like it was apparent he left a lot of plays on the field - when that was clearly not the case...The only way to read a comment like that is attacking...

I am completely rational expectations and views of who and what Wilson is...

I just call out the bullsh*t around here from people that are irrationally against him...

Nothing more than that...

 

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I kind of lean this way, too. Some of those isolated plays are easy to say when we have the benefit of watching film not after just having seen the line collapse. For a player it's not as easy to erase from memory, and we're talking about a rookie here (one who was quite arguably promoted too early, at that). 

The overall situation itself, all game long, isn't likely to repeat itself season-long next year or any year, and if it does they're not winning a lot of games even if someone else might have completed another 3-5 passes (assuming all of them were caught, too). 

This was not a pro offense we fielded, against one of the game's top defenses (if not its best one right now), so it's a shoulder shrug for me, too. Not to mention, even QBs far better & more accomplished/experienced than Wilson have bleh days, too.

100%.  That why I said I wouldnt call this regression in the "did Zach regress today thread".  He's had a lot of positive build upon moments in the past 4 weeks, I'm not going to kill him over this game.  Even if he did make some of those easy underneath throws, the Jets still lose this game.  Again, I'm just pointing out the good, with the bad, as usual.  

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44 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Last nights game proved nothing about what he will or won’t be.  

Ok, but that's not what we were talking about. 

We were talking about what Zach could do better (or not).

44 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I’m not feeding your hate by talking about where he could have been better.

It's hard to take seriously an objection about what could/couldn't be done better from someone who can't/won't actually talk about what could be done better.

So not much else for us to say then, is there?

 

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

So the excuses vs Buffalo come out full force for Zach but they some how exposed Mike White ? I'm not saying this is what you are doing here nor do I mean to imply it I'm directing this to the  blinded Zach Supporters who bashed White because of his 252 yards 4int's vs this same Buffalo team. White never got a chance again and he's got 6 less starts than Zach and also what could be considered a rookie since this was the first year he actually got a start.. While White made some bad throws into coverage in that game he still was able to move the team and throw for the third most yards of any QB vs the Bills.

Same supporters who said to me a few days ago lets see how Zach does vs the Bills in comparision to MW My conclusion is MW looked much more in control than Zach did with 3 or 4 i'll advised throws. Conclusion is at least White made the throws or tried too while Zach just seemed to play in fear for the entire game .

There's no denying that Mike White knows how to run an offense better than Zach Wilson. But let's remember, he's been in the league for, what, 4 years already? I'd expect him to be better than a rookie in that regard.

I think the main indictment on Mike White, imo, is his limited physical ability and arm talent. That is where Zach Wilson is superior. That doesn't mean I think Zach is going to be the guy for us, and he still has a lot to learn on how to read defenses and run an offense (stuff Mike White can already do) but if he can achieve that, his ceiling is much higher than White's.

Don't get me wrong, though. I still want them to re-sign White and give him a chance to compete as the back-up, along with another veteran option. Heck, if Wilson is still sh*tting the bed next year and looks like a bust, then I'd be all for handing the reigns to Mike White until he proves me wrong or puts us into position to draft another QB.

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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

That said, it's all good.  I'm not discouraged about his performance.  Lots of factors to consider in this one and while he played awful, I can also understand there is a trust factor as young QB that he probably didnt have yesterday which impacted his decision making and his internal clock. 

It was a bad game, after a string of a few decent ones, I'm not going to stress. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

In fairness they should have introduced him to the receivers before the game. Having them shaking hands and meet for the first time in the huddle almost led to a delay of game penalty.  :)

The TV footage was horrible yesterday. They should have been showing the coverage consistently after these sacks. That is why I like going to the games, you choose what to watch.

In fairness, I've pointed that out numerous times in numerous different threads, including this one.  (ironically, Fido gave me rep for one of those posts, lmfao).  Trust factor is key for a young QB, I totally understand why he looked out of sorts.  

 

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1 hour ago, ultraJETfan said:

@Smashmouth go outside and smoke a marlboro and relax because you are embarrassing yourself

And its people like you that will be content to sit here for 3 years defending a terrible QB who plays bad football right in front of your face yet somehow find a way to deny it. Maybe before the game you smoked a big fat spliff with Fidelio and don't even realize your the one embarrassing yourself.

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9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Nah, if you're saying things like it was apparent he left a lot of plays on the field - when that was clearly not the case...The only way to read a comment like that is attacking...

I am completely rational expectations and views of who and what Wilson is...

I just call out the bullsh*t around here from people that are irrationally against him...

Nothing more than that...

 

Giving a fair accurate assessment of a player and acknowledging the situation played a huge factor and saying that I'm not concerned about this performance and I'm in fact, still encouraged by the way he ended the season = attacking him?   Are you ******* serious?  STFU, dude, legit.  Either put me on ignore or dont respond to me about Zach Wilson anymore.  You are unbearable. 

 

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He seemed to get some rhythm in the second quarter and i liked when we went into hurry up to prevent Buffalo from making subs. That was the one stretch where we looked we were doing anything - but then we lost Crowder and Cole too and it seemed like everything then shut down with the exception of that out to the kid that we signed two days ago going out of bounds. I mean we were playing with WRs 6-8 out there... (this all seems pretty ironic when you consider how at the start of the season we were debating the priviledge of playing WR for us requiring knowledge of the full playbook and the fact that given the opp to make an impact, Denzel was a total non factor)

On Zach's footwork, I noticed him looking to step up in the pocket a couple of times early on only to find that he was trapped with the C getting pushed into him. He had less patience for that as the game wore on and its important that he not develop bad habits as a result - since he raised on his own in the post game and was very self critical, I think that its fair for people to note it here and also to expect that he will work on it in the off season. 

IMHO - the biggest issue yesterday even accounting for not having his receivers is that we couldn't establish a run game at all. Was always going to be challenge, especially once Moses went out too (I mean seriously!) and with Feeney and Mcdermott starting....but that was our only hope of getting manageable down and distances and we just couldn't do it. All that dancing we're complaining about from Zach was on 3rd and real long where his receivers needed time to get downfield and we just couldn't protect long enough. 

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2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

For sure, he left a ton of plays on the field

This is all I'm talking about...

I will simply ignore you going forward with anything to do with Wilson....I ask you do the same.  

 

But I'm not sure you can watch that game last night and come away with the quoted above - and expect to be taken seriously....

All I've asked is for you or anyone else that's making similar claims to show me those "ton of plays" that were left on the field.

Anyway, that's the last you'll hear from me re: Zach Wilson.

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I'm not going to disagree there was issues with his WR's because there was and that usually shows itself when a QB scrambles and expects a receiver to react and try to make a play. They were certainly not familiar with one another. But the check downs he was ignoring were Micheal Carter, Ty Johnson, Tevin Coleman and Tyler Kroft not really unfamiliar faces 

When you have a good relationship with a WR a lot of times you know exactly what they will do in that situation (scramble) maybe break off a route or come back to the QB .....but in a situation where you have guys underneath right in front of you wide open and you decided maybe that's not good enough I'd rather scramble and take my chances vs the best secondary in the NFL I have to question that decision making. And yes in the video posted you can see players on numerous occasions open underneath the coverage right in front of Zach when he had time to throw and he chose not too.

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3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is all I'm talking about...

I will simply ignore you going forward with anything to do with Wilson....I ask you do the same.  

 

But I'm not sure you can watch that game last night and come away with the quoted above - and expect to be taken seriously....

All I've asked is for you or anyone else that's making similar claims to show me those "ton of plays" that were left on the field.

Anyway, that's the last you'll hear from me re: Zach Wilson.

Good, go away. 

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15 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

And its people like you that will be content to sit here for 3 years defending a terrible QB who plays bad football right in front of your face yet somehow find a way to deny it. Maybe before the game you smoked a big fat spliff with Fidelio and don't even realize your the one embarrassing yourself.

I don't smoke cannabis anymore but I'm down to chill and smoke a churchill stogie. And I'm very fair and objective. After the Saints game I basically threw the towel in on Zach. But since that game he steadily showed flashes and then had a, in my opinion, great performance against the Bucs and now I'm back on Team Zach but I'm not a blind homer either. From watching the video in super slow mo, in my opinion, it's not as bad as you are making it seem. All the checkdowns you say he missed, from what I saw, were on 3rd and long with the checkdowns having ZERO change at getting a first down as in they are tackled immediately. I have a feeling you would've been absolutely livid if he took checkdowns on 3rd and long. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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9 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

He seemed to get some rhythm in the second quarter and i liked when we went into hurry up to prevent Buffalo from making subs. That was the one stretch where we looked we were doing anything - but then we lost Crowder and Cole too and it seemed like everything then shut down with the exception of that out to the kid that we signed two days ago going out of bounds. I mean we were playing with WRs 6-8 out there... (this all seems pretty ironic when you consider how at the start of the season we were debating the priviledge of playing WR for us requiring knowledge of the full playbook and the fact that given the opp to make an impact, Denzel was a total non factor)

On Zach's footwork, I noticed him looking to step up in the pocket a couple of times early on only to find that he was trapped with the C getting pushed into him. He had less patience for that as the game wore on and its important that he not develop bad habits as a result - since he raised on his own in the post game and was very self critical, I think that its fair for people to note it here and also to expect that he will work on it in the off season. 

IMHO - the biggest issue yesterday even accounting for not having  is that we couldn't establish a run game at all. Was always going to be challenge, especially once Moses went out too (I mean seriously!) and with Feeney and Mcdermott starting....but that was our only hope of getting manageable down and distances and we just couldn't do it. All that dancing we're complaining about from Zach was on 3rd and real long where his receivers needed time to get downfield and we just couldn't protect long enough. 

Exactly. He was constantly in 3rd and long all day because we couldn't run the ball. On a few of the 3rd and longs he could have taken dump offs that probably would not have gotten the first. I really tried to find a few cases of missing open receivers that would have been better than scrambling or taking sacks and I didn't see it. 

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Some QB;'s can actually make throws into tight coverage 5-10 yards out and those throws were there and Zach chose to try and extend plays while the Bills were taking the intermediate game away from him. Zach had one choice as dictated by the Bills and that was to take the check down game until the Bills started to actually defend it and instead Zach chose to play right into their hands.

You have a vivid imagination.  Zach had no time to go through progressions or to wait for WRs to get anything close to get open.  That would be if they had the talent to get open.  How often was Coles an open option when the whole compliment of WRs were running routes, when the running game was a viable option and when the OL was able  to block. 
 

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

White played under different conditions, threw 4 picks outright, plus 3 more iirc that the defense dropped; that's a good deal more than make "some bad throws into coverage." If Wilson had that same game I can only imagine what your take on it would've been.

Beyond that, it goes without saying when different people are on the field (not to mention wind/weather) the conditions change even if the team names are the same. It was a crap game all around, with a still-raw rookie surrounded by, what was it by the time Crowder left after 5 called pass plays, 4 of 10 actual NFL starters around him? Pick a RB, plus 3 OLmen, since Cole is a WR4.

But yeah it's the same teams lol. White "moved the ball" to a bunch of players who weren't on the field yesterday, at home, plus warmer out (during the day, not with sundown 35 min after kickoff dropping the temp further), plus throwing with no wind, plus Buf suddenly starting two backup defenders against the Jets. Yet with that advantage, the offense with him scored just as many points. 

Also if you want to play this silly #statsdontlie game, then from White's 254 gross yards,

  • subtract all the yards he gained throwing to Davis, Moore, Crowder, Berrios, and Griffin.
  • From there you can further subtract the team's yards lost field in position by throwing picks instead of changing possession by punting (on top of surrendering a couple possessions on 1st & 10 and 2nd & 5).
  • White was 1 of 6 throwing to Cole. So let's extrapolate things to imagine a full game of Cole as his only NFL-caliber WR.

It was a crap game by a beaten, eliminated Jets team starting mostly backups around a rookie QB, against a top defense on its game. Reading too much into it with side by side stats, comparing to a prior game that bears so little relevance, is silly.  

You could only Imagine ? yeah Ill take the 55 net yards Sperm .

Like I said most of his passes that could have been made underneath were to players he played with all year . At times Wilson has problems throwing the ball 5 yards to players wide open. I'm ecstatic when he hits a guy in stride from 5 yards out. This quite frankly is the worst QB play I have seen in 50 years and its not even close. You don't like the MW comparison Okay that's fine but lets not forget he's a young QB just as well and before that Cincy game Zach had the same exact players MW had and Zach was downright terrible.

Now you seem to be making the argument Darnold defenders were making, for Zach and previous Jets QB's who had garbage to throw too.  

You forgot the part where MW was down 10-3 2 min left in the half driving for a score hitting Davis over the middle for 20 when Davis fumbled the ball and next offensive possession we were down 24-3. 

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20 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

And its people like you that will be content to sit here for 3 years defending a terrible QB who plays bad football right in front of your face yet somehow find a way to deny it. Maybe before the game you smoked a big fat spliff with Fidelio and don't even realize your the one embarrassing yourself.

When you’re this sure what a QB will become after less than a full season leading a team like this you really shouldn’t accuse people of being high or embarrassing themselves.  

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You have a vivid imagination.  Zach had no time to go through progressions or to wait for WRs to get anything close to get open.  That would be if they had the talent to get open.  How often was Coles an open option when the whole compliment of WRs were running routes, when the running game was a viable option and when the OL was able  to block. 
 

No time to go through progressions ? Do you know what a check down is ? It also works in a situation where you are under pressure and cant get through all the progressions QB's have been doing it for the past 40 years with regularity yet all that changes for Zach because he can't see a guy open 5-10 yards out ?

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9 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

You could only Imagine ? yeah Ill take the 55 net yards Sperm .

Like I said most of his passes that could have been made underneath were to players he played with all year . At times Wilson has problems throwing the ball 5 yards to players wide open. I'm ecstatic when he hits a guy in stride from 5 yards out. This quite frankly is the worst QB play I have seen in 50 years and its not even close. You don't like the MW comparison Okay that's fine but lets not forget he's a young QB just as well and before that Cincy game Zach had the same exact players MW had and Zach was downright terrible.

Now you seem to be making the argument Darnold defenders were making, for Zach and previous Jets QB's who had garbage to throw too.  

You forgot the part where MW was down 10-3 2 min left in the half driving for a score hitting Davis over the middle for 20 when Davis fumbled the ball and next offensive possession we were down 24-3. 

I'm making the argument that this was a uniquely sh**-show performance all around, and with mostly backups around him, against the league's best defense, in windy conditions on the road, there isn't much to extrapolate. That's what you're doing. Enjoy doing so if it makes you feel better.

He's a rookie who still needs time to cook. Whether or not that'll eventually yield a good enough QB we'll see in time, but basing it one way or the other on this game? 

Kind of funny from someone who excused years of mishaps from Mark Sanchez on what was otherwise a championship-caliber roster.

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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm making the argument that this was a uniquely sh**-show performance all around, and with mostly backups around him against the league's best defense there isn't much to extrapolate. That's what you're doing. Enjoy doing so if it makes you feel better.

I wish I was sophisticated enough to call someone an idiot so eloquently and respectfully. 

Bravo, sir.

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32 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

No time to go through progressions ? Do you know what a check down is ? It also works in a situation where you are under pressure and cant get through all the progressions QB's have been doing it for the past 40 years with regularity yet all that changes for Zach because he can't see a guy open 5-10 yards out ?

Do I?  I’m not the one who swears he saw open receivers all night and there was enough time to check his primary receiver and then check down.  You name all the rookie QBs who played with the type of receivers he had last night, with no protection and completed passes.  I’ll wait

Then tell me who was free and clear who could catch a football

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