Every Throw from Zach Wilson Week 18 vs Bills

[jetstream23]

8 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I mean, Zach Wilson had a 4 INT game and wasn't benched.  White had one against Buffalo, with only one of those INTs coming while the game was still at hand.

I agree that the Jets know more about White than we do, and as I've said before, and in this very thread, I'm not trying to speak about White re: the future, I'm saying he played the best game at QB of anyone this season, and it wasn't close.

Ultimately, White was benched prior to Zach's return.  Why do that, other than to ease the transition back to the underperforming rookie?  Had White put up another quality game, it would have been extremely difficult to go back to Wilson.  MIKE WHITE HYPE was a real thing.  With Flacco, you could/can pull him any time.

Understand your point and I don't necessarily disagree, but when you mention "transition back to the underperforming rookie" I'm glad that we did that.  I think the Jets saw the progress Wilson was making and despite his rookie-itis the first month or two until the injury, they saw he was making strides.  He has been a different QB than he was the first half of the season and we'd have never known that if they continued to sit him.  The Jets are investing in the guy with the higher upside, the guy who is much earlier in his development (year 1) than Mike White (year 3), and I don't disagree with that.  I honestly feel like this is a good problem to have.  Think RGIII and Kirk Cousins.

[ZachEY]

16 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

I agree, but I'm also hoping some things are changing at One Jets Drive.  Westy seems to think so....

 

 

 

 

FYI, I don't think that's actually Mike Westhoff.

[Spoot-Face]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Zach actually had accuracy but I feel the speed of the game made him think rather than just play. If they never had it I think your right they likely don’t develop it. Though I did see Josh Allen all of a sudden handle his accuracy issues once they signed Diggs. Obviously Zach likely never get to his level but he is an example off accuracy improving. 

Glad to see I'm not the only one who feels that way.

[Peace Frog]

3 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

 Mike White is relevant because with one game, a meaningful portion of the fanbase was hoping for something other than the return of the face of the franchise #2 pick.

 

I think you mean a "meaningful portion of JN" was hoping.  

I think the overwhelming majority of the fanbase (not old salts on a message boad) want Zach to succeed.  

[ZachEY]

Just now, jetstream23 said:

Understand your point and I don't necessarily disagree, but when you mention "transition back to the underperforming rookie" I'm glad that we did that.  I think the Jets saw the progress Wilson was making and despite his rookie-itis the first month or two until the injury, they saw he was making strides.  He has been a different QB than he was the first half of the season and we'd have never known that if they continued to sit him.  The Jets are investing in the guy with the higher upside, the guy who is much earlier in his development (year 1) than Mike White (year 3), and I don't disagree with that.  I honestly feel like this is a good problem to have.  Think RGIII and Kirk Cousins.

Be glad about it, that's fine.  I'm talking about process.  The ability to shut down Mike White Hype made it a lot easier to do so.  Another good performance from White and you're going to struggle with it.

[Peace Frog]

3 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Well, I think we can agree that that would be... well... bad?

Wouldn't be optimal, no.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, ZachEY said:

You're phrasing it a way to make it sound as absurd as possible - Mike White is relevant because with one game, a meaningful portion of the fanbase was hoping for something other than the return of the face of the franchise #2 pick.

I'm sure Woody has discussions w/ leadership, and I'm not seeing it as terribly absurd that they want to avoid that type of situation, considering the investment in Wilson.  If you think that is so crazy, why when there were many better QBs available in FA, was no one brought in who could easily outplay Sam Darnold or Mark Sanchez.  Hell, we went with Luke Falk and David Fales at one point.

First, I agree - Woody's top priority has been to PR first and winning second.  

With that said I really do think JD is 100% in charge of personnel...

I think they didn't bring in a legit back-up last year because they had predetermined Wilson was the starter and wanted to get him as many reps as possible.  

I don't think they'll bring in a legit back up this year because they have faith in Wilson and like the progress they saw - or the cynical side would be they are simply all-in on Zach and know if he fails they're out anyway - so why bother...

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this but I do believe it's basically what happened.

[Peace Frog]

2 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

FYI, I don't think that's actually Mike Westhoff.

It's the pixels again, right?

[ZachEY]

Just now, Peace Frog said:

I think you mean a "meaningful portion of JN" was hoping.  

I think the overwhelming majority of the fanbase (not old salts on a message boad) want Zach to succeed.  

JN is largely where I interact w/ other Jets fans, but it also was happening on twitter and there was plenty of talk about him in the limited amount of espn radio I listen to.

[Jetsfan80]

On 1/10/2022 at 12:11 PM, HawkeyeJet said:

This is the type of game where the “weapinz” crew really loses me.  I truly believe that some think Aaron Rodgers or Mahomes are coming in to the exact same situation yesterday and dramatically changing the offensive output.  I personally think that is absurd.  

This point would speak to me if we hadn't seen this exact same kind of post made about 3 other homegrown Jets QB's since 2009.  

People are hitting every excuse on @jgb's QB excuse mat for Wilson that they did for prior QB's:

• "[Insert great QB] couldn't succeed with these receivers"
• "He was running for his life out there"
• "The OC didn't do enough to give him simple throws out there"
• "No one was open all day"
• "This is his just his Xth start"
• "You guys wanting him to be slinging it for 400 yards out there are being ridiculous"
• "He can't catch the ball himself"
• "He had no running game"

I'm sick of it.  For once, I'd like to have a young QB that we can be confident is "the guy" heading into year 2 of his career.  Instead we get to spend this whole offseason debating over it.  

[Peace Frog]

2 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

JN is largely where I interact w/ other Jets fans, but it also was happening on twitter and there was plenty of talk about him in the limited amount of espn radio I listen to.

Yeah, that's fair.  I have friends and family that don't even know this board exists and were eagerly awaiting Zach's return.

Edit: I'm not on the Twitter.  I listen to ESPN radio a lot and I got the sense from callers that they were more pro-Zach than this place.

Nobody knows what the fan base, as a whole, thinks.  

Or a hole.  

[JustInFudge]

11 minutes ago, Green hat said:

The average release time for an NFL QB is approx. 2.4 seconds. This is from the snap to the throw or pressure/collapse. 2 seconds into this particular play, 55 was in his face. I look at this play and think, how did Moses whiff so bad and ruin the play? I also think , nice job escaping at the last second. Others at JN watch the play and think Zach is having mental issues. Ok...I just disagree. (He did have mental issues not that long ago, absolutely. But has improved in the last few games and deserves credit for it, imo)

I was waiting for Zach to have a melt down in this game with seemingly everything falling apart - no running game, no starting WRs, OLine sucking and Buffalo having a great defense, and freaking 9 sacks. He kept his sh*t together and kept fighting.

I just disagree strongly that there were a lot of plays that he missed (would love a good example). He didn't have much success obviously, no one can claim he did. We scored 10 points. But we were just undermanned in a massive way against a great defense and were not able to overcome it. So be it. We come back next year with more talent, less injuries and more experience in the system and should be able to start winning games like this. I don't think we are that far away. 

I truly appreciate your efforts here, so I'm going to give you a sincere response.  

I patently disagree with your break down of this one particular play.  I'm not a big beliver in the "average time to throw" stat.  It's dubious, at best but I digress.  On this play, I especially dont see how that stat is relevant because it's pretty clear to see Zach had more than enough time when he set his back foot to release that ball to 1 of the 2 open receivers that were right in front of his face.  He looked to evade instead of stepping into it and throwing into the face of pressure.  It is 100% a play that is made every single Sunday.  I watched Bryce Young do it last night multiple times...defenders in his face, literally hitting his arm, still gets off, still completes it, doesnt let his eyes drop to see the pressure, doesnt need 3 seconds to throw.  IMO, in the NFL, that should be a completion 9 out of 10 times and the 1 is giving room for a drop or deflection, etc.

Do I think he has "mental issues" because of that play?  No.  He just missed it.  It happens. I assume there were some trust factors considering the circumstance and he had taken a beating at that point.  Which is why I'm not even bashing him it for it, in fact, I've completely defended his play on Sunday. I totally understand and appreciate that he was bringing a knife to a gun fight.  That doesnt change that there were missed opportunities.  It just is what it is and there is no reason to make into something different. 

I think people are getting into semantics here a little bit, whether it was a "ton" or "many" or "a lot" or "a bunch" - whatever, he left some plays out there, I saw over a handful which can be a lot in an NFL game, especially when you go 7 for 20 w/ 55 net yards and 9 sacks.  I'm sorry but that speaks for itself.  IMO it's pretty ridiculous to think there was absolutely no way he could have done any better.

And guess what?  I'm not concerned.  You know, why? We saw him make that play numerous times in the past few weeks, so it's not like I'm sitting here saying he's not capable of making it, he just, missed it.  It's ok.  I'm still encouraged by his finish to the season.

 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

It's the pixels again, right?

Obviously.

Also, not a verified account, which in an of itself isn't complete evidence, but this is the bio: MW left the building but his badass spirit will always be with the NY Jets. Also, I miss Bill Parcells.

Seems more like a fan adopting the name.

[Peace Frog]

1 minute ago, ZachEY said:

Obviously.

Also, not a verified account, which in an of itself isn't complete evidence, but this is the bio: MW left the building but his badass spirit will always be with the NY Jets. Also, I miss Bill Parcells.

Seems more like a fan adopting the name.

I've met him in person.

That tweet did not sound like him.

He's a mean old codger.  Does not give an F and says what's on his mind.  

 

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I truly appreciate your efforts here, so I'm going to give you a sincere response.  

I patently disagree with your break down of this one particular play.  I'm not a big beliver in the "average time to throw" stat.  It's dubious, at best but I digress.  On this play, I especially dont see how that stat is relevant because it's pretty clear to see Zach had more than enough time when he set his back foot to release that ball to 1 of the 2 open receivers that were right in front of his face.  He looked to evade instead of stepping into it and throwing into the face of pressure.  It is 100% a play that is made every single Sunday.  I watched Bryce Young do it last night multiple times...defenders in his face, literally hitting his arm, still gets off, still completes it, doesnt let his eyes drop to see the pressure, doesnt need 3 seconds to throw.  IMO, in the NFL, that should be a completion 9 out of 10 times and the 1 is giving room for a drop or deflection, etc.

Do I think he has "mental issues" because of that play?  No.  He just missed it.  It happens. I assume there were some trust factors considering the circumstance and he had taken a beating at that point.  Which is why I'm not even bashing him it for it, in fact, I've completely defended his play on Sunday. I totally understand and appreciate that he was bringing a knife to a gun fight.  That doesnt change that there were missed opportunities.  It just is what it is and there is no reason to make into something different. 

I think people are getting into semantics here a little bit, whether it was a "ton" or "many" or "a lot" or "a bunch" - whatever, he left some plays out there, I saw over a handful which can be a lot in an NFL game, especially when you go 7 for 20 w/ 55 net yards and 9 sacks.  I'm sorry but that speaks for itself.  IMO it's pretty ridiculous to think there was absolutely no way he could have done any better.

And guess what?  I'm not concerned.  You know, why? We saw him make that play numerous times in the past few weeks, so it's not like I'm sitting here saying he's not capable of making it, he just, missed it.  It's ok.  I'm still encouraged by his finish to the season.

 

I think he missed his Boo Boo Braxton. I know I miss mine when your not here. 

[FidelioJet]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This point would speak to me if we hadn't seen this exact same kind of post made about 3 other homegrown Jets QB's since 2009.  

People are hitting every excuse on @jgb's QB excuse mat for Wilson that they did for prior QB's:

• "[Insert great QB] couldn't succeed with these receivers"
• "He was running for his life out there"
• "The OC didn't do enough to give him simple throws out there"
• "No one was open all day"
• "This is his just his Xth start"
• "You guys wanting him to be slinging it for 400 yards out there are being ridiculous"
• "He can't catch the ball himself"
• "He had no running game"

I'm sick of it.  For once, I'd like to have a young QB that we can be confident is "the guy" heading into year 2 of his career.  Instead we get to spend this whole offseason debating over it.  

Why are we comparing Wilson to other QB's?

What does Geno, Mark and Sam have to do with Zach?

100's of QB's fail and there are a myriad or reasons for their lack of success.

Lastly, I, personally, am confident he's the guy.  As are many here.  You don't see the potential and that's fine - I hope you do eventually get there.

[Spoot-Face]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

The bolded is correct. 

 

While I would be all for bringing in Minshew or someone like that, it's not happening. Saleh actually said he wants Flacco back, lol

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Green hat said:

I was waiting for Zach to have a melt down in this game with seemingly everything falling apart - no running game, no starting WRs, OLine sucking and Buffalo having a great defense, and freaking 9 sacks. He kept his sh*t together and kept fighting.

I wanted to separate this particular part of your post because honestly, this is what I've been most impressed with lately by Zach.  We are so used to young QB's and veterans for that matter, compounding bad games or bad halves or bad stretches with back breaking meltdowns.  Zach did avoid that not only yesterday but also vs. Miami as well.  Everything was breaking down and they look over matched and some of the time that part of it was Zach but still, he kept fighting, the team kept fighting no matter who was out there and he didnt have that repeat of the Patriots game earlier this season which we've all become so accustomed to around here from the QB position.  Probably the most encouraging aspect of the growth he showed over the last quarter of the season.

[Spoot-Face]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

I think this is what everyone is hoping ... Its why i made the post a few weeks ago citing exactly what you are saying here but my take was ... is it possible Zach's arm is tired or hurt in some way because going from accurate to what he did during the regular season is not easily explained.

That being said I did see him flexing his arm this week while sitting on the bench the camera actually panned to Zach while he was doing it. It looked like it was bothering him. 

Yeah, I remember seeing that. He could've just been trying to keep it limber in the cold.

It's possible he hurt his arm, but I can't recall any reports about that, and until we hear word about some potential nagging injury, I'm going to assume that, physically, his arm is fine, and it's basically just the yips he's dealing with.

[jetstream23]

20 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Be glad about it, that's fine.  I'm talking about process.  The ability to shut down Mike White Hype made it a lot easier to do so.  Another good performance from White and you're going to struggle with it.

 

?

 

[Spoot-Face]

1 hour ago, ZachEY said:

My definition of "legit vet" is probably different than yours.  Flacco is a "legit vet" in that he has a history of playing at a high level and can step in should things go wrong.  However, he is not a "legit vet" in that he poses any chance of taking the starting job from Wilson due to his offseason performance.  Flacco's cashing checks, and I don't know that he actually wants to be on the field.

Are you doubting this is the face of a man who wants to win??!!

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

This would be such a terrible decision on so many levels.

If they just want the QB2 to be in house, it ought to just be Mike White.  Otherwise they need to be looking to upgrade with an acquired QB.  

Flacco is a complete waste of a roster spot.

[Peace Frog]

4 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Yeah, I remember seeing that. He could've just been trying to keep it limber in the cold.

It's possible he hurt his arm, but I can't recall any reports about that, and until we hear word about some potential nagging injury, I'm going to assume that, physically, his arm is fine, and it's basically just the yips he's dealing with.

He definitely had the yips early on but he seemed to have calmed that down in the second half.  He rarely dirted a ball or missed a wide open receiver 5 yards in front of him.  

I highly doubt his arm is hurt.  

[ZachEY]

31 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I have friends and family that don't even know this board exists and were eagerly awaiting Zach's return.

I go to pretty great lengths to insure that my friends and family don't know this place exists.

[Peace Frog]

2 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I go to pretty great lengths to insure that my friends and family don't know this place exists.

I hear you.  

[HawkeyeJet]

37 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This point would speak to me if we hadn't seen this exact same kind of post made about 3 other homegrown Jets QB's since 2009.  

People are hitting every excuse on @jgb's QB excuse mat for Wilson that they did for prior QB's:

• "[Insert great QB] couldn't succeed with these receivers"
• "He was running for his life out there"
• "The OC didn't do enough to give him simple throws out there"
• "No one was open all day"
• "This is his just his Xth start"
• "You guys wanting him to be slinging it for 400 yards out there are being ridiculous"
• "He can't catch the ball himself"
• "He had no running game"

I'm sick of it.  For once, I'd like to have a young QB that we can be confident is "the guy" heading into year 2 of his career.  Instead we get to spend this whole offseason debating over it.  

Where is he anyway? There’s a lot of regulars missing over the last few weeks it seems.

Hey I’d love that too.  But it’s not the case.  So here we are.  Let the debate rage on

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I go to pretty great lengths to insure that my friends and family don't know this place exists.

Seriously.  If Marvin Jones was successful at that JN tailgate, Mrs. JiFapono might have been Mrs. Jones! 

[Origen]

He wasn't making any faces or wincing while making the motions on the sideline, I thought it was more of a warmth thing than injury. 

[ZachEY]

20 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Seriously.  If Marvin Jones was successful at that JN tailgate, Mrs. JiFapono might have been Mrs. Jones! 

Stealing my wife is not the reason I don't tell people about JN, but good on you!

[Grandy]

58 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I wanted to separate this particular part of your post because honestly, this is what I've been most impressed with lately by Zach.  We are so used to young QB's and veterans for that matter, compounding bad games or bad halves or bad stretches with back breaking meltdowns.  Zach did avoid that not only yesterday but also vs. Miami as well.  Everything was breaking down and they look over matched and some of the time that part of it was Zach but still, he kept fighting, the team kept fighting no matter who was out there and he didnt have that repeat of the Patriots game earlier this season which we've all become so accustomed to around here from the QB position.  Probably the most encouraging aspect of the growth he showed over the last quarter of the season.

It is indeed good to see that so far Wilson doesn't have the Darnold trait of compounding suck. 

[Jetsfan80]

35 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Where is he anyway? There’s a lot of regulars missing over the last few weeks it seems.

He didn't appreciate being called a troll by many here when he really isn't one, so he took some time away.  He'll be back.

[Spoot-Face]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

I think he missed his Boo Boo Braxton. I know I miss mine when your not here. 

*you're

@Verbal

[Spoot-Face]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This would be such a terrible decision on so many levels.

If they just want the QB2 to be in house, it ought to just be Mike White.  Otherwise they need to be looking to upgrade with an acquired QB.  

Flacco is a complete waste of a roster spot.

A QB room that looks like: Wilson, Gardiner, White or Wilson, Foles, White would make me happy

[Flea Flicking Frank]

38 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He didn't appreciate being called a troll by many here when he really isn't one, so he took some time away.  He'll be back.

lol, so his feelings got hurt and hes off licking his wounds, but he still has you at least

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This point would speak to me if we hadn't seen this exact same kind of post made about 3 other homegrown Jets QB's since 2009.  

People are hitting every excuse on @jgb's QB excuse mat for Wilson that they did for prior QB's:

• "[Insert great QB] couldn't succeed with these receivers"
• "He was running for his life out there"
• "The OC didn't do enough to give him simple throws out there"
• "No one was open all day"
• "This is his just his Xth start"
• "You guys wanting him to be slinging it for 400 yards out there are being ridiculous"
• "He can't catch the ball himself"
• "He had no running game"

I'm sick of it.  For once, I'd like to have a young QB that we can be confident is "the guy" heading into year 2 of his career.  Instead we get to spend this whole offseason debating over it.  

I think the difference here is that we actually saw all of this. The OL and WRs were looking good minus the drops and injuries. This isn't like previous QBs where we had our starters playing but "didn't have the talent"