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Zach Wilson - "Different QB the 2nd Half of the Year"


Warfish
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1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

I didnt plan on it, but now that you asked, I have it saved for quick response.

Thanks, 

Kind of like the "mountains of evidence" cut and paste job we saw dozens of times.

Before the Buc game.  Not so much since.  

I'll cut and paste the Johnson/White/Flacco part as a quick retort.  

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16 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Kind of like the "mountains of evidence" cut and paste job we saw dozens of times.

Before the Buc game.  Not so much since.  

I'll cut and paste the Johnson/White/Flacco part as a quick retort.  

Really?  Not so much since?  Nothing after the Bills game? lol

I assume the team will get better in the offseason, so it really wont hold any weight soon.  So maybe I'll only use it till late April. 

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9 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Really?  Not so much since?  Nothing after the Bills game? lol

I assume the team will get better in the offseason, so it really wont hold any weight soon.  So maybe I'll only use it till late April. 

No, I mean the "mountain of evidence" cut and paste job went away after the Bucs game.

I have no doubt it will slowly creep back and by March it'll be back in every thread, Zach related or not.

And yes, he was not good in the Bills game.  We can all make our own judgement as to why.  

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1 hour ago, dcJet said:

just looked up Zach's turnover stats - 16 in 13 games.

Not bad after a horrible start.  I'd like to see it be like 10-12 in 17 games next year.  

Sam had 20 in 13 games his rookie year.
Geno had 29 in 16 games.
Sanchez had 30 in 15 games.  Yikes!

Zach has a chance to be a very good QB.  

Depends. I think there is a difference between being a smart game manager and an all star. 
 

Zach still has yet to show he can win games carrying the team, because that what a franchise qb does. 

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I admit that this is completely subjective, but Zach Wilson played better toward the end of the season based on nothing but the eye test.

  • He looked much more comfortable out there.  Prior to his injury, you could visibly see that his mind was racing out on the field.  The erratic play decreased in the final stretch of games.
  • His ball placement improved.  He was consistently throwing high, low, and behind his receivers in the first 2/3 of the season.  The location of his passes was noticeable better in the last few games.
  • Execution of short passes improved.  He went through painful stretches where it seemed he couldn't complete a simple screen pass.  Every throw was zipped in whether it needed to be or not.  The touch on his passes was noticeably better down the stretch.

Zach Wilson has to continue improving if he wants to become a good long term starter.  Aside from the TD/INT ratio, the stats don't show much difference between the first and second halves of the season.  Regardless, he made some strides in areas that aren't necessarily quantifiable, and he gave fans some glimmer of hope for the future.

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7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

PFF may not be 100% useless, but shouldn’t be taken as blind fact. Sometimes a bad pass isn’t a bad pass it’s on the receiver being in the wrong place or not turning his head.

Definitely true.  Its one semi questionable source amongst several other advanced stat tracker groups.   Unfortunately I dont have a subscription to many of these places so I couldn’t seperate the performance into a before and after injury.

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22 hours ago, Averagejetsfan1421 said:

I wonder what his completion percentage would’ve been accounting for all the catchable dropped balls that our receivers didn’t help him with, 

 

22 hours ago, Warfish said:

That's a good question as well.  I didn't have access to a good source for total drops/game, and even that is made harder by the fact that Zach played a partial game in that first half (so we'd have to split drops while he was in vs. drops after the injury).

Some stats are indeed hard to find in a relatively easily presentable way, but drop analysis would be useful as well.  

 

Here's a good metric that isolates out the WR aspect of the equation:  Poor throws and poor throw %.

According to pro-football-reference, Wilson had 87 total "Poor Throws" on the season on 383 attempts, or 23.8 % of his throws:  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsZa00/gamelog/2021/advanced/

In Weeks 1-7, he had 46 bad throws on 181 attempts, or 25.4 %.

In Weeks 12-18, he had 41 bad throws on 202 attempts, or 20.3 %.

So he did improve in this category.  But where do those numbers compare to the rest of the league?  Unfortunately, the site doesn't provide the rankings, so I had to look up all the QB's in the league with 6+ starts this season to come up with this:

  1. Joe Burrow:  10.7 %
  2. Jimmy Garoppolo:  12.9 %
  3. Jalen Hurts:  14.0 %
  4. Kyler Murray:  14.1 %
  5. Matt Ryan:  14.5 %
  6. Justin Herbert:  14.6 %
  7. Dak Prescott:  14.7 %
  8. Derek Carr:  15.5 %
  9. Ryan Tannehill:  15.9 %
  10. Tua Tagovailoa:  16.3 %
  11. Taylor Heinicke:  16.4 %
  12. Jared Goff:  16.5 %
  13. Jacoby Brissett:  16.5 %
  14. Teddy Bridgewater:  16.7 %
  15. Kirk Cousins:  17.1 %
  16. Andy Dalton:  17.2 %
  17. Josh Allen:  17.4 %
  18. Davis Mills:  17.4 %
  19. Mac Jones:  17.7 %
  20. Aaron Rodgers:  18.2 %
  21. Ben Roethlisberger:  18.4 %
  22. Daniel Jones:  18.4 %
  23. Sam Darnold:  18.5 %
  24. Matthew Stafford:  18.6 %
  25. Russell Wilson:  18.6 %
  26. Pat Mahomes:  18.8 %
  27. Carson Wentz:  18.8 %
  28. Tom Brady:  19.0 %
  29. Lamar Jackson:  19.7 %
  30. Zach Wilson (Weeks 12-18 only):  20.3 %
  31. Trevor Lawrence:  20.5 %
  32. Baker Mayfield:  20.9 %
  33. Jameis Winston:  21.7 %
  34. Justin Fields:  21.9 %
  35. Tyrod Taylor:  22.1 %
  36. Zach Wilson (overall):  23.8 %
  37. Zach Wilson (Weeks 1-7 only):  25.4 %

 

Certainly, some will look at the above list and notice some pretty bad QB's towards the top of the list, and some better ones towards the bottom.  Obviously, this metric is influenced by how risk-averse a QB is.  The more risks a QB takes, the higher % of "poor throws" there will be.  Some really good QB's tend to take a lot of risks.  

But does that argument help or hurt Wilson?  After all, he was instructed to take less chances in the 2nd half of his rookie season, and his INT's went down.  But his poor throw % from Weeks 12-18, if extrapolated to a full season, still would have ranked him near the bottom of the league.  

 

Mad Men Not Great Bob GIF

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8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Here's a good metric that isolates out the WR aspect of the equation:  Poor throws and poor throw %.

According to pro-football-reference, Wilson had 87 total "Poor Throws" on the season on 383 attempts, or 23.8 % of his throws:  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsZa00/gamelog/2021/advanced/

In Weeks 1-7, he had 46 bad throws on 181 attempts, or 25.4 %.

In Weeks 12-18, he had 41 bad throws on 202 attempts, or 20.3 %.

So he did improve in this category.  But where do those numbers compare to the rest of the league?  Unfortunately, the site doesn't provide the rankings, so I had to look up all the QB's in the league with 6+ starts this season to come up with this:

  1. Joe Burrow:  10.7 %
  2. Jimmy Garoppolo:  12.9 %
  3. Jalen Hurts:  14.0 %
  4. Kyler Murray:  14.1 %
  5. Matt Ryan:  14.5 %
  6. Justin Herbert:  14.6 %
  7. Dak Prescott:  14.7 %
  8. Derek Carr:  15.5 %
  9. Ryan Tannehill:  15.9 %
  10. Tua Tagovailoa:  16.3 %
  11. Taylor Heinicke:  16.4 %
  12. Jared Goff:  16.5 %
  13. Jacoby Brissett:  16.5 %
  14. Teddy Bridgewater:  16.7 %
  15. Kirk Cousins:  17.1 %
  16. Andy Dalton:  17.2 %
  17. Josh Allen:  17.4 %
  18. Davis Mills:  17.4 %
  19. Mac Jones:  17.7 %
  20. Aaron Rodgers:  18.2 %
  21. Ben Roethlisberger:  18.4 %
  22. Daniel Jones:  18.4 %
  23. Sam Darnold:  18.5 %
  24. Matthew Stafford:  18.6 %
  25. Russell Wilson:  18.6 %
  26. Pat Mahomes:  18.8 %
  27. Carson Wentz:  18.8 %
  28. Tom Brady:  19.0 %
  29. Lamar Jackson:  19.7 %
  30. Zach Wilson (Weeks 12-18 only):  20.3 %
  31. Trevor Lawrence:  20.5 %
  32. Baker Mayfield:  20.9 %
  33. Jameis Winston:  21.7 %
  34. Justin Fields:  21.9 %
  35. Tyrod Taylor:  22.1 %
  36. Zach Wilson (overall):  23.8 %
  37. Zach Wilson (Weeks 1-7 only):  25.4 %

 

Certainly, some will look at the above list and notice some pretty bad QB's towards the top of the list, and some better ones towards the bottom.  Obviously, this metric is influenced by how risk-averse a QB is.  The more risks a QB takes, the higher % of "poor throws" there will be.  Some really good QB's tend to take a lot of risks.  

But does that argument help or hurt Wilson?  After all, he was instructed to take less chances in the 2nd half of his rookie season, and his INT's went down.  But his poor throw % from Weeks 12-18, if extrapolated to a full season, still would have ranked him near the bottom of the league.  

 

Mad Men Not Great Bob GIF

What's the point here?

Zach Wilson had a rough rookie year but showed substantial progress in the second half of the year from the first?

Agreed.

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I posted this in another thread, if you choose to remove some of the truly ugly games that Zach Wilson had after coming back, his numbers, and completion percentage look almost pedestrian. They are at 59%. But you add in all the games (Buffalo and NO) it plummets to 54%. He was completing around 58% of his passes before he got hurt.

What Zach is going to have to do next year is limit the disaster games. Games like he played against Miami, and Philadelphia for example, need to be more of his floor. Lots of people are trying to make those games into something they were not. He was just ok in those games, which isn't a bad thing, but he needs to be a lot better than that if he is going to be a franchise QB. 

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14 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 


Sooo stats don’t matter…. Wins don’t matter, making boneheaded decisions don’t matter…. Nope, he needs loads of stars…. Riiiiight.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Yes they do matter, in NFL fantasy leagues so yes they do matter… And when the roster is built up a little bit if the stats are still crummy it could be an issue true…

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28 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

What's the point here?

Analysis of available metrics for those interested.

You know, if you're not interested you could just skip it. 

I think we're all aware of where you stand, as this.....

Quote

Zach Wilson had a rough rookie year but showed substantial progress in the second half of the year from the first

....certainly covers it.

If digging deeper into the numbers isn't to your liking, or you think it's a waste of time, why keep reading and responding just to say effectively the same thing?  Not that I begrudge your right to do so, of course, it just seems that you're annoyed that some folks are interested in these numbers and analysisisisis.

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Analysis of available metrics for those interested.

You know, if you're not interested you could just skip it. 

I think we're all aware of where you stand, as this.....

....certainly covers it.

If digging deeper into the numbers isn't to your liking, or you think it's a waste of time, why keep reading and responding just to say effectively the same thing?  Not that I begrudge your right to do so, of course, it just seems that you're annoyed that some folks are interested in these numbers and analysisisisis.

I'm just commenting to try and understand what point the OP was trying to make.

It actually sounds like he and I agree.  

I know where he stands too, so I was wondering if he viewed these numbers from a different angle than I do - I was, frankly, surprised to see he agreed with my viewpoint - one which he's been consistently arguing against.

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1 hour ago, Hael said:

Definitely true.  Its one semi questionable source amongst several other advanced stat tracker groups.   Unfortunately I dont have a subscription to many of these places so I couldn’t seperate the performance into a before and after injury.

I always forget I have access on an older, cracked-screen ipad I rarely use (still have someone else's login saved). But I rarely am interested enough to bother looking through said cracked screen. Some things are more interesting than others, and I'd agree it doesn't have zero value (especially for players I don't focus on regularly, like say some other team's RG or something), but so much is so subjective that you can't use it like it's factual.

Not only a receiver running an unexpected (and wrong) route, but other instances in blocking. Like if, for example GVR let someone go right past him to the QB super-fast, others on the line who would've given up pressure don't really get nicked because they held a block for >1.7 seconds which isn't much. So one really terrible guy on the line can indirectly boost the rankings of merely mediocre guys on the same line. 

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

 

Zach still has yet to show he can win games carrying the team, because that what a franchise qb does. 

Yup most rookie QBs carry their teams in their rookie seasons. Especially a rookie everyone admitted was raw and would need some seasoning. 

Can’t believe he didn’t carry this roster into the playoffs. 

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4 hours ago, section314 said:

Sent out the Bat signal for you in another thread  😁. Cam Clarke came up. Do your guys hear anything about him? Do they still like him/see a future for him here? Thanks as always.

Hey Section, I saw that.  Sorry for not responding back right away; I’ve been kind of trying to think of a way to address this, not just for you, but for everyone else who tags me and asks me questions.  I guess the easiest way is to say it upfront: I don’t believe I will publicly post information on the main board anymore…not for a while, at the very least.  To make a long story short, I just (and trust me, you aren’t included in the following group of people) have been very leery about who and what I share nowadays.  I was attacked countless times this year for supposedly trying to “protect my rep as an insider” or called a “Joe Douglas ball-sniffing, shill” (actual quotes by posters, one of which I considered a friend on this board until I told him we weren’t drafting Fields in the off-season and he got his panties in a twist) due to what I can only guess is misplaced frustration in regards to the team.  That made posting on this forum not very fun this season.

So, for now, I’d be more than happy to answer your questions in PMs.

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4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Hey Section, I saw that.  Sorry for not responding back right away; I’ve been kind of trying to think of a way to address this, but I guess the easiest way is to say it upfront: I don’t believe I will publicly posting information on the main board.  At the very least, not for a while.  To make a long story short, I just (and trust me, you aren’t included in the following group of people) have been very leery about who and what I share nowadays.  I was attacked countless times this year for supposedly trying to “protect my rep as an insider” or called a “Joe Douglas ball-sniffing, shill” (actual quotes by posters, one of which I considered a friend on this board until I told him we weren’t drafting Fields in the off-season and he got his panties in a twist) due to what I can only guess is misplaced frustration in regards to the team.  That made posting on this forum not very fun this season.

So, for now, I’d be more than happy to answer your questions in PMs.

Here is an easy and copy-pastable reply to those giving you any hassle Mogz.

"F*ck um'."  

You're welcome! :D

P.S. This reply should equally be aimed at me if I ever give you grief for trying to share special sourced info.

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1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

Hey Section, I saw that.  Sorry for not responding back; I’ve been kind of trying to think of a way to address this, but I guess the easiest way is to say it upfront: I don’t believe I will publicly posting information on the main board.  At the very least, not for a while.  To make a long story short, I just (and trust me, you aren’t included in the following group of people) have been very leery about who and what I share nowadays.  I was attacked countless times this year for supposedly trying to “protect my rep as an insider” or called a “Joe Douglas ball sniffing shill” (actual quotes by posters, one of which I considered a friend on this board until I told him we weren’t drafting Fields in the off-season and he got his panties in a twist) due to what I can only guess is misplaced frustration in regards to the team.  That made posting on this forum not very fun this season.

So, for now, I’d be more than happy to answer your questions in PMs.

Sorry to hear that. I always value the info you are able to get from your guys, and thank you for trying to keep us all in the loop. I will use the PM method from now on. Wish it didn't have to come to this. P.S   glad it wasn't me and all my James Morgan questions.😁😁

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7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Here is an easy and copy-pastable reply to those giving you any hassle Mogz.

"F*ck um'."  

You're welcome! :D

‘Preciate it bud, lol.  I got into it far more often than I’d like to this season (some of it my fault for sure 😅).  Unfortunately, some people took it too far.  I suppose that was bound to happen after opening Pandora’s Box, but it still sucked nonetheless.

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5 minutes ago, section314 said:

Sorry to hear that. I always value the info you are able to get from your guys, and thank you for trying to keep us all in the loop. I will use the PM method from now on. Wish it didn't have to come to this. P.S   glad it wasn't me and all my James Morgan questions.😁😁

Of course man, and absolutely not, lol.  You’ve always been respectful, and I appreciate that.  Feel free to hit me up whenever.

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11 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Hey Section, I saw that.  Sorry for not responding back right away; I’ve been kind of trying to think of a way to address this, not just for you, but for everyone else who tags me and asks me questions.  I guess the easiest way is to say it upfront: I don’t believe I will publicly post information on the main board anymore…not for a while, at the very least.  To make a long story short, I just (and trust me, you aren’t included in the following group of people) have been very leery about who and what I share nowadays.  I was attacked countless times this year for supposedly trying to “protect my rep as an insider” or called a “Joe Douglas ball-sniffing, shill” (actual quotes by posters, one of which I considered a friend on this board until I told him we weren’t drafting Fields in the off-season and he got his panties in a twist) due to what I can only guess is misplaced frustration in regards to the team.  That made posting on this forum not very fun this season.

So, for now, I’d be more than happy to answer your questions in PMs.

Tell us who, we'll take care of him.  We NEED info!

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9 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

‘Preciate it bud, lol.  I got into it far more often than I’d like to this season (some of it my fault for sure 😅).  Unfortunately, some people took it too far.  I suppose that was bound to happen after opening Pandora’s Box, but it still sucked nonetheless.

Ah, gets us all from time to time, especially someone in your spot with actual 'sauces.

Hell, I am sure over the course of an offseason I probably hassled you more than once too, and as you know I love your Dad but he and I can barely speak two words to each other without getting in a fight, I'm beginning to wonder if he is a distant relative of mine or something, lol.

Water off a ducks back, haters gonna hate, pick your cliché, but "F*uck um'" really does say it all.   Folks are probably just jealous you know people and work in the Biz.  sh*t, I know I am, I'd love to work in the Biz.  Keep waiting for the Nats to hire me, lol.

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Yes they do matter, in NFL fantasy leagues so yes they do matter… And when the roster is built up a little bit if the stats are still crummy it could be an issue true…


Listen, Zach was garbage all season. If you wanna play the “he was better in the second half of the season” card that’s fine I agree. Had he played as well as he did in the 2nd half of the season for the entire season it still would’ve been an absolutely terrible performance. You wanna hang your hat on the idea that because he went from downright embarrassing as hell to just embarrassing as hell as some kind of victory then you do you. That boy is terrible at playing QB in the NFL. At the end of his career you’ll look back and realize that Geno Smith had a better career. That’s how bad he is.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app
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1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

Tell us who, we'll take care of him.  We NEED info!

I wish I could, but call-outs like that are frowned upon ‘round these parts, lol.  I made sure to include those quotes though as a way of doing so.  They know who they are (as long as they didn’t delete the posts, so does everyone else who saw them), and they will definitely not be receiving any information from me for as long as I post here.  Considering one of those people used to beg me for anything I could give him, like a female dog in heat, that might suck for them.

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Ah, gets us all from time to time, especially someone in your spot with actual 'sauces.

Hell, I am sure over the course of an offseason I probably hassled you more than once too, and as you know I love your Dad but he and I can barely speak two words to each other without getting in a fight, I'm beginning to wonder if he is a distant relative of mine or something, lol.

Water off a ducks back, haters gonna hate, pick your cliché, but "F*uck um'" really does say it all.   Folks are probably just jealous you know people and work in the Biz.  sh*t, I know I am, I'd love to work in the Biz.  Keep waiting for the Nats to hire me, lol.

Nah, you’ve been fine my friend, haha.

Whatever they feel, I’ve learned I cannot control.  I never wanted it to be this way, which is what sucks.  I genuinely never cared about anything other than sharing information for fun.  I’m, mostly, anonymous here.  I have nothing to gain.  It’s a forum, lol.  It was never about “maintaining a reputation”.  It’s a shame how serious some made it out to be.

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1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

 


Listen, Zach was garbage all season. If you wanna play the “he was better in the second half of the season” card that’s fine I agree. Had he played as well as he did in the 2nd half of the season for the entire season it still would’ve been an absolutely terrible performance. You wanna hang your hat on the idea that because he went from downright embarrassing as hell to just embarrassing as hell as some kind of victory then you do you. That boy is terrible at playing QB in the NFL. At the end of his career you’ll look back and realize that Geno Smith had a better career. That’s how bad he is.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

I’m willing to give him till next season if he craps the bed then yeah I’ll be on the bus to get him out of town… not saying is the second coming of Peyton Manning, But I do think he has potential, and willing to ride behind him for now

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7 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Lol get the **** out of here

Not every young, highly drafted QB gets, or deserves, 3 seasons.  It's just that you're used to the Jets doing this so often with bad QB's you forget how the rest of the league functions.  All of these recent, highly drafted QB's got 2 years or less with the org's that drafted them:

  • Dwayne Haskins
  • Josh Rosen
  • DeShone Kizer
  • Paxton Lynch 
  • Christian Hackenberg
  • Johnny Manziel
  • Brandon Weeden
  • Jimmy Clausen

Granted, none of these were top-2 overall picks.  But its still certainly not out of the question that Wilson could find himself on a new team in year 3.  He'd probably have to bottom out hard for that to happen though.

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42 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not every young, highly drafted QB gets, or deserves, 3 seasons.  It's just that you're used to the Jets doing this so often with bad QB's you forget how the rest of the league functions.  All of these recent, highly drafted QB's got 2 years or left with the org's that drafted them:

  • Dwayne Haskins
  • Josh Rosen
  • DeShone Kizer
  • Paxton Lynch 
  • Christian Hackenberg
  • Johnny Manziel
  • Brandon Weeden
  • Jimmy Clausen

Granted, none of these were top-2 overall picks.  But its still certainly not out of the question that Wilson could find himself on a new team in year 3.  He'd probably have to bottom out hard for that to happen though.

What's so sad about this list is that almost half of them were drafted by the Browns

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1 hour ago, Hex said:

What's so sad about this list is that almost half of them were drafted by the Browns

At least the Browns have been willing to "fail quickly" with their QB's. 

Mike Tannenbaum actually handed Mark Sanchez a CONTRACT EXTENSION in 2012.  Geno Smith was ousted as starter in year 3 by Fitzpatrick, but he was still on the roster throughout his rookie deal when we perhaps could have traded him away for a mid-rounder.  Hackenberg was dumped after 2 seasons, but only after Maccagnan had managed to screw the Jets forever by passing on Mahomes/Watson.  And of course Darnold lasted 3 years, and may well have been here for 4 if Douglas hadn't fallen in love with Wilson.  

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Haven't read the thread, so dunno if this has been a contentious/pretentious conversation -- but it seems ludicrous to *attempt* to measure Zach's tangible progress in his first 4 months. He played in the Taco Bell conference with greatest Oline this side of Saturn. He was always going to be dirty laundry in year 1.... 

Trying to "read the Wilson tea leaves" in his rookie year is akin to watching Doctor Phil for marriage advice. A year from now?... OK, we can start burning books.

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19 hours ago, Warfish said:

For everyone who has posted some variation of "Zach had no talent around him to work with/support him, our skill players are "trash", how could he have done better", how do you feel about JD as GM so far?

TBH Mims aside, as we saw, this should've been a decently strong group - arguably the team's strongest - on paper. Davis, Mims, Moore, Crowder, Cole, Berrios was a deep group with starters and depth, and a good mix of under-30 veterans and youth. Who predicted they'd need to be 6-8 WRs deep, that Mims would be unworthy of even a roster spot, and that Davis would drop a pass per game (graded generously) when he was actually in? Cole was meh and perhaps that was visible on his prior film but he didn't need to be more than a WR4-5 if the group didn't collapse as a whole.

The TE group was inexcusable. They all got injured, too, but even healthy there wasn't a starter on the roster.

The RBs did a poor job of blocking, on balance, had their own share of injuries, and now & then had inexcusable facepalms (e.g. Ty Johnson flat out dropping 3 dumpoff passes in 1 game? Come on.)

I'd say a mixed review. The TE group was the only one that was a ridiculous fail from the preseason planning phase. Unless they had prior history of injuries and bad hands, I don't see how anyone's supposed to predict all of the above mess. Hopefully it gets better, and they add a serious WR (or two) and TE at a minimum. As of today I don't expect to see Crowder, Cole, or Mims returning, and Berrios is still unsigned thus far, too.

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3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

TBH Mims aside, as we saw, this should've been a decently strong group - arguably the team's strongest - on paper. Davis, Mims, Moore, Crowder, Cole, Berrios was a deep group with starters and depth, and a good mix of under-30 veterans and youth. Who predicted they'd need to be 6-8 WRs deep, that Mims would be unworthy of even a roster spot, and that Davis would drop a pass per game (graded generously) when he was actually in? Cole was meh and perhaps that was visible on his prior film but he didn't need to be more than a WR4-5 if the group didn't collapse as a whole.

The TE group was inexcusable. They all got injured, too, but even healthy there wasn't a starter on the roster.

The RBs did a poor job of blocking, on balance, had their own share of injuries, and now & then had inexcusable facepalms (e.g. Ty Johnson flat out dropping 3 dumpoff passes in 1 game? Come on.)

I'd say a mixed review. The TE group was the only one that was a ridiculous fail from the preseason planning phase. Unless they had prior history of injuries and bad hands, I don't see how anyone's supposed to predict all of the above mess. Hopefully it gets better, and they add a serious WR (or two) and TE at a minimum. As of today I don't expect to see Crowder, Cole, or Mims returning, and Berrios is still unsigned thus far, too.

Do we judge General Managers on their predictions?  Or on their results?

Is there a real world scenario where rookie franchise QB Wilson is (mostly) blameless because he "had no talent around him" AND the GM is blameless (mostly) because "he couldn't predict all this"?

And if so, where does the responsibility for a offensively inept, weak, losing and (for the D) historically bad season lay, ultimately? 

Or is there no responsibility, just a freebie, a mulligan, no one to blame, lets all just move on?  It seems many in our fanbase are of this view.  No one is responsible, no one has earned criticism, we must give them all 2022 to lose some more, and maybe in 2023 we'll be competitive.

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23 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Do we judge General Managers on their predictions?  Or on their results?

Is there a real world scenario where rookie franchise QB Wilson is (mostly) blameless because he "had no talent around him" AND the GM is blameless (mostly) because "he couldn't predict all this"?

And if so, where does the responsibility for a offensively inept, weak, losing and (for the D) historically bad season lay, ultimately? 

Or is there no responsibility, just a freebie, a mulligan, no one to blame, lets all just move on?  It seems many in our fanbase are of this view.  No one is responsible, no one has earned criticism, we must give them all 2022 to lose some more, and maybe in 2023 we'll be competitive.

Or is it that you can't take a trash franchise and make it over in a couple of seasons? The world may never know.image.jpeg.93719ebac7d8ecf1f6d679c8db0675b9.jpeg

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