Treylon Burks

[Patriot Killa]

just watched Treylon Burks - jotted a few notes as I was watching. 
 

(Games watched: Alabama 2021, Georgia 2020, Florida 2020, Auburn 2021, Ole Miss 2021, Texas A&M 2021)

Positives:

• Big frame/Prototype WR1 size.

• Moves really well, vertically, for his stature.

• Has a good habit of finishing his routes strong.

• Does well working the sideline.

• 1 on 1 nightmare match up for DB’s

• Pretty strong hands. Looks natural when he catches it.

• Versatile in the sense that you can use him as a weapon horizontally or vertically. The fly route or the screen pass, the deep post or the jet sweep.

• High points on the 50/50 well.

• Explosive athlete and natural playmaker.

• Good patience sitting down on the top of his route and making himself available.

• Comes back for the ball well, covers ground quickly. Attacks the pass & doesn’t wait for it to come to him.

• Burks in open space is deadly and the addition of his size is what makes that even more impressive in live motion.

Negatives:

• Doesn’t sell his route well when the play isn’t going to him. Half jogs it on a good portion of run plays.

• Limited exposure to man coverage in everything I’ve seen.

• Gets a bit grabby on blocks to the outside. Also think he’s an inconsistent blocker.

• Will need more moves off the LOS in his tool box other than the stutter step.

• question his quickness breaking inside at times. NFL DB’s will be tighter to his hip & the window to make a play will be smaller.

 

Value:

Top 15 selection

[nj meadowlands]

How do you view him compared to Drake London?  London is a basketball player.  Bigger, but a little slower according to 40 times?  I think I like London a little better tbh.

[derp]

53 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

How do you view him compared to Drake London?  London is a basketball player.  Bigger, but a little slower according to 40 times?  I think I like London a little better tbh.

London is taller, lighter, and slower both laterally and in a straight line. They’re very different stylistically. London reminds me of Mike Evans (also a basketball player) and Burks reminds me of bigger Deebo Samuel. I’ve also seen people say Burks is like you gave DK Metcalf the ability to move laterally instead of just in a straight line and that probably has a little merit too.

[Paradis]

Unrelated to Burks specifically- but I see the usual walking talking penises on draft Twitter gushing over “I love this WR class”… or “it’s a deep WR class” …lol what a load. 

this is weakest draft class at WR since the Devin Thomas or whomever went in the 2nd. No depth whatsoever imo. I wouldn’t be surprised by TC 2024 if only 7-8 are on NFL Rosters. 

point being; gonna be a little unpredictable how this plays out imo. Might mean more aggressive FA spending? Or maybe it pushes a run in most of the WRs by the end of Rnd 2. London will sneak into late 1 early 2 imo. If he has a strong draft cycle, maybe the 2nd guy off the board 

[Columbia Jet Fan]

Thanks for the write up... just curious... the half jogs it comment really stuck out as a potential negative to me. I see Denzel Mims doing that all the time and it drives me crazy. Is your comment maybe insinuating he is a lazy player? If so I couldn't get behind selecting him top 15. 

 

8 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Unrelated to Burks specifically- but I see the usual walking talking penises on draft Twitter gushing over “I love this WR class”… or “it’s a deep WR class” …lol what a load. 

this is weakest draft class at WR since the Devin Thomas or whomever went in the 2nd. No depth whatsoever imo. I wouldn’t be surprised by TC 2024 if only 7-8 are on NFL Rosters. 

point being; gonna be a little unpredictable how this plays out imo. Might mean more aggressive FA spending? Or maybe it pushes a run in most of the WRs by the end of Rnd 2. London will sneak into late 1 early 2 imo. If he has a strong draft cycle, maybe the 2nd guy off the board 

Just curious - you mention the depth not being as strong - but it seems to me that there are five no brainer first round grades (Burks, Williams pre injury, Wilson, London, Olave) - and then a few fringe round 1 guys in Jahan Dotson and David Bell. Is your takeaway that the top 5-7 guys are significantly worse than the top 5-7 guys of the past few drafts? Or just it falls off strong after the top guys?

[derp]

11 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Unrelated to Burks specifically- but I see the usual walking talking penises on draft Twitter gushing over “I love this WR class”… or “it’s a deep WR class” …lol what a load. 

this is weakest draft class at WR since the Devin Thomas or whomever went in the 2nd. No depth whatsoever imo. I wouldn’t be surprised by TC 2024 if only 7-8 are on NFL Rosters. 

point being; gonna be a little unpredictable how this plays out imo. Might mean more aggressive FA spending? Or maybe it pushes a run in most of the WRs by the end of Rnd 2. London will sneak into late 1 early 2 imo. If he has a strong draft cycle, maybe the 2nd guy off the board 

I think the class is dense in one particular area of the draft but I don’t see a deep class either. I don’t think people know how to say it’s not good at the absolute top and it’s not deep either since there’s that clump of good prospects and should be a good chunk of guys who go in the first round.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

8 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Unrelated to Burks specifically- but I see the usual walking talking penises on draft Twitter gushing over “I love this WR class”… or “it’s a deep WR class” …lol what a load. 

this is weakest draft class at WR since the Devin Thomas or whomever went in the 2nd. No depth whatsoever imo. I wouldn’t be surprised by TC 2024 if only 7-8 are on NFL Rosters. 

point being; gonna be a little unpredictable how this plays out imo. Might mean more aggressive FA spending? Or maybe it pushes a run in most of the WRs by the end of Rnd 2. London will sneak into late 1 early 2 imo. If he has a strong draft cycle, maybe the 2nd guy off the board 

Agreed. No consensus top guy that gets you everything and it'll drop off HARD at some point by day 2, probably round 2 like you said.

[Chrebetfan80]

48 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Unrelated to Burks specifically- but I see the usual walking talking penises on draft Twitter gushing over “I love this WR class”… or “it’s a deep WR class” …lol what a load. 

this is weakest draft class at WR since the Devin Thomas or whomever went in the 2nd. No depth whatsoever imo. I wouldn’t be surprised by TC 2024 if only 7-8 are on NFL Rosters. 

point being; gonna be a little unpredictable how this plays out imo. Might mean more aggressive FA spending? Or maybe it pushes a run in most of the WRs by the end of Rnd 2. London will sneak into late 1 early 2 imo. If he has a strong draft cycle, maybe the 2nd guy off the board 

i have a feeling he's going to be the guy going 2nd off the board now.   Wilson will be first, then im thinking london.  Dotson is going to be a riser too. 

I oddly think Burks may be the guy that falls a little bit further than some suspect.  Olave too

[Greenseed4]

52 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Unrelated to Burks specifically- but I see the usual walking talking penises on draft Twitter gushing over “I love this WR class”… or “it’s a deep WR class” …lol what a load. 

this is weakest draft class at WR since the Devin Thomas or whomever went in the 2nd. No depth whatsoever imo. I wouldn’t be surprised by TC 2024 if only 7-8 are on NFL Rosters. 

point being; gonna be a little unpredictable how this plays out imo. Might mean more aggressive FA spending? Or maybe it pushes a run in most of the WRs by the end of Rnd 2. London will sneak into late 1 early 2 imo. If he has a strong draft cycle, maybe the 2nd guy off the board 

 

38 minutes ago, derp said:

I think the class is dense in one particular area of the draft but I don’t see a deep class either. I don’t think people know how to say it’s not good at the absolute top and it’s not deep either since there’s that clump of good prospects and should be a good chunk of guys who go in the first round.

Here's an article you might be interested in

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-college-football-clustering-2022-nfl-draft-wide-receiver-prospects-ohio-state-garrett-wilson-alabama-jameson-williams

[Peace Frog]

58 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Unrelated to Burks specifically- but I see the usual walking talking penises on draft Twitter gushing over “I love this WR class”… or “it’s a deep WR class” …lol what a load. 

this is weakest draft class at WR since the Devin Thomas or whomever went in the 2nd. No depth whatsoever imo. I wouldn’t be surprised by TC 2024 if only 7-8 are on NFL Rosters. 

point being; gonna be a little unpredictable how this plays out imo. Might mean more aggressive FA spending? Or maybe it pushes a run in most of the WRs by the end of Rnd 2. London will sneak into late 1 early 2 imo. If he has a strong draft cycle, maybe the 2nd guy off the board 

We only need one.

Draft WR.

Not walking talking penises.  

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Unrelated to Burks specifically- but I see the usual walking talking penises on draft Twitter gushing over “I love this WR class”… or “it’s a deep WR class” …lol what a load. 

this is weakest draft class at WR since the Devin Thomas or whomever went in the 2nd. No depth whatsoever imo. I wouldn’t be surprised by TC 2024 if only 7-8 are on NFL Rosters. 

point being; gonna be a little unpredictable how this plays out imo. Might mean more aggressive FA spending? Or maybe it pushes a run in most of the WRs by the end of Rnd 2. London will sneak into late 1 early 2 imo. If he has a strong draft cycle, maybe the 2nd guy off the board 

Totally agree.   This WR class is sort of indicative of this draft class as a whole.   No real elite prospects, little depth and a bunch of prospects that don’t really excite you.   In a draft where the Jets have 7 picks in the first  114 selections, it’s hard to get excited.  For that reason, this sucks. 

[derp]

1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

i have a feeling he's going to be the guy going 2nd off the board now.   Wilson will be first, then im thinking london.  Dotson is going to be a riser too. 

I oddly think Burks may be the guy that falls a little bit further than some suspect.  Olave too

I could see it with Burks. I don't think the NFL likes the gadget usage guys so much. Do think it fits for the Jets though.

[Peace Frog]

If Burks is anywhere near the talent of Mercalf I would absolutely spend the 10 on him. 

[Chrebetfan80]

4 minutes ago, derp said:

I could see it with Burks. I don't think the NFL likes the gadget usage guys so much. Do think it fits for the Jets though.

he definitely fits for what the jets like to do, but I think with Berrios and Moore they have guys that can fill that role already.  now it helps to have a positionless offense in regards to the WR's so i certainly can see where they would really like him for those qualities.  What he brings over some of the other guys his size at that point of the draft however is Speed which certainly helps the Jets more than other things. 

To me there are just other WR's in that range that are going to show a little more polish pushing him down a little further.  I really do think it will be Wilson/London as the 1 and 2 in the draft now that williams is out.  Burks can either slide in at 3 or 4 after that and we'll see where that goes in the draft.  If i had to guess I'd say later in round 1 but I could see top of 2 as well. 

I think some of that depends on how Dotson does because i can see him rising up boards and he's been a hotter name of late now that people are starting to look a little deeper into the guys.  

Again I go back and forth on who I would want more for the Jets.. Im currently leaning towards London over Burks, but I wouldnt mind either way.  London is just a little more polished to me currently and still has a lot of upside as a player. I think we get a little more of an immediate impact from him.  

[derp]

14 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

he definitely fits for what the jets like to do, but I think with Berrios and Moore they have guys that can fill that role already.  now it helps to have a positionless offense in regards to the WR's so i certainly can see where they would really like him for those qualities.  What he brings over some of the other guys his size at that point of the draft however is Speed which certainly helps the Jets more than other things. 

To me there are just other WR's in that range that are going to show a little more polish pushing him down a little further.  I really do think it will be Wilson/London as the 1 and 2 in the draft now that williams is out.  Burks can either slide in at 3 or 4 after that and we'll see where that goes in the draft.  If i had to guess I'd say later in round 1 but I could see top of 2 as well. 

I think some of that depends on how Dotson does because i can see him rising up boards and he's been a hotter name of late now that people are starting to look a little deeper into the guys.  

Again I go back and forth on who I would want more for the Jets.. Im currently leaning towards London over Burks, but I wouldnt mind either way.  London is just a little more polished to me currently and still has a lot of upside as a player. I think we get a little more of an immediate impact from him.  

I think it really depends on the development trajectory. I get back to that Deebo Samuel gadget role but that’s a way to get production from a younger WR and I’d think the Jets could do that with Burks, which in an odd way raises his year one floor, and you can work on the other stuff. I also think SF wants most of their guys to do that which is why they layered Aiyuk on top of Samuel but maybe that’s not the Jets’ play at the position. I also think those clean wins he sometimes has on downfield routes fit nicely with easy reads for Wilson - it’s kind of like Metcalf sometimes where guys just can’t handle the weight speed combo once he gets going. I think he’s enough of a freak he’s still going to be tough to physically handle at the pro level. Flashes of just insane acceleration.

You know more than me but I’m surprised to read you use polish with London - maybe just because he’s a bit of an awkward mover and I know he’s new to football. I could see a natural knack for some things for sure and obviously Burks is raw. I’d think he’s got a wider year one range since if he struggles to separate with those slower looking feet and can’t muscle DB’s in the pros like he did in college he’s going to struggle - we’ve seen that with bigger guys before.

I’m sure the injury is a clean one to come back from but that adds a little risk too. Burks seems to get nicked up which is a little scary but plays through it.

I’m I guess a little more convinced Burks is going to be tough to tackle at the NFL level than I am that London is going to be a catch point monster. Believe both but the Burks path is cleaner in my head. I’d also view the fit thing differently in a different offense - the Samuel thing is just kind of burned into my head at this point and I can’t get away from it.

[Greenseed4]

There's a post on Twitter (that was shared here in ONE of these threads) that charted each of the top WRs by route ran.   It was clear that Burks can play any WR position and he is equally adept at going over the middle (on slants), getting YAC on outs and screens, but also running deep routes and winning the 50/50s. 

Given that Moore excelled in the 'Z' role, I can see Burks playing the Big Slot for us and having a Michael Thomas like impact.  Also to note, Burks has 5XL hands (that require custom gloves be made)... having mitts like that makes it easy to catch Zach's fastballs. 

[Paradis]

9 hours ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

Just curious - you mention the depth not being as strong - but it seems to me that there are five no brainer first round grades (Burks, Williams pre injury, Wilson, London, Olave) - and then a few fringe round 1 guys in Jahan Dotson and David Bell. Is your takeaway that the top 5-7 guys are significantly worse than the top 5-7 guys of the past few drafts? Or just it falls off strong after the top guys?

well i disagree on Olave, Bell, but your to your point -- there's only 2-3 First round talent guys, and another 2-3 day two guys that i would say value-meets the pick... then its a wasteland. Toxic dump-field. Maybe you find an avenger, but most likely just mutants. 

The difference is both lack of any blue chip WRs, but more concerning, that normally robust group of players that fit into the tier-2 conversations - looks like the breakfast club.  

[Paradis]

12 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

i have a feeling he's going to be the guy going 2nd off the board now.   Wilson will be first, then im thinking london.  Dotson is going to be a riser too. 

I oddly think Burks may be the guy that falls a little bit further than some suspect.  Olave too

really?...I have hard time seeing Burks slide. He doesn't have the symptoms like N'Keal Harry had before his/and others fell... We'll see, i'm saving him for last. I watched enough during the season(s) to feel good about it though. 

Olave.. I have him in round 3, but if I need a guy, i might take him in rnd 2 given there's basically no one behind him. 

I'm falling for London hard. 

[Paradis]

9 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

 

Here's an article you might be interested in

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-college-football-clustering-2022-nfl-draft-wide-receiver-prospects-ohio-state-garrett-wilson-alabama-jameson-williams

if by interested you mean, spiked my blood pressure... then yes. Lol. I'll have to take a longer look at it but at first glance i hate it. 

[Paradis]

7 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

he definitely fits for what the jets like to do, but I think with Berrios and Moore they have guys that can fill that role already.  now it helps to have a positionless offense in regards to the WR's so i certainly can see where they would really like him for those qualities.  What he brings over some of the other guys his size at that point of the draft however is Speed which certainly helps the Jets more than other things. 

To me there are just other WR's in that range that are going to show a little more polish pushing him down a little further.  I really do think it will be Wilson/London as the 1 and 2 in the draft now that williams is out.  Burks can either slide in at 3 or 4 after that and we'll see where that goes in the draft.  If i had to guess I'd say later in round 1 but I could see top of 2 as well. 

I think some of that depends on how Dotson does because i can see him rising up boards and he's been a hotter name of late now that people are starting to look a little deeper into the guys.  

Again I go back and forth on who I would want more for the Jets.. Im currently leaning towards London over Burks, but I wouldnt mind either way.  London is just a little more polished to me currently and still has a lot of upside as a player. I think we get a little more of an immediate impact from him.  

 

7 hours ago, derp said:

I think it really depends on the development trajectory. I get back to that Deebo Samuel gadget role but that’s a way to get production from a younger WR and I’d think the Jets could do that with Burks, which in an odd way raises his year one floor, and you can work on the other stuff. I also think SF wants most of their guys to do that which is why they layered Aiyuk on top of Samuel but maybe that’s not the Jets’ play at the position. I also think those clean wins he sometimes has on downfield routes fit nicely with easy reads for Wilson - it’s kind of like Metcalf sometimes where guys just can’t handle the weight speed combo once he gets going. I think he’s enough of a freak he’s still going to be tough to physically handle at the pro level. Flashes of just insane acceleration.

You know more than me but I’m surprised to read you use polish with London - maybe just because he’s a bit of an awkward mover and I know he’s new to football. I could see a natural knack for some things for sure and obviously Burks is raw. I’d think he’s got a wider year one range since if he struggles to separate with those slower looking feet and can’t muscle DB’s in the pros like he did in college he’s going to struggle - we’ve seen that with bigger guys before.

I’m sure the injury is a clean one to come back from but that adds a little risk too. Burks seems to get nicked up which is a little scary but plays through it.

I’m I guess a little more convinced Burks is going to be tough to tackle at the NFL level than I am that London is going to be a catch point monster. Believe both but the Burks path is cleaner in my head. I’d also view the fit thing differently in a different offense - the Samuel thing is just kind of burned into my head at this point and I can’t get away from it.

I'm not sold on this dogma about M.L being fixated on all this LOS traffic w/ motion plays, and the like. but even if they want more of that--

• why take Zach Wilson? Any ashole can throw bubbles and wheels. You're not utilizing his assets. 
• finding gadget/role/multi-faceted role players is 10x easier in both FA and draft, then a purebred. 
• Burks is actually able to do some of that in addition to being a bona fide boundary guy for those contested catches that DO make use of Wilson's talents and were sorely absent for most of the year. 
• London also give Wilson exactly what he needs

If the Jets are truly looking to support Wilson and give this Offense more flexibility, then the only options are Burks and London IMO 

[Paradis]

ugh, 4 posts in a row? 5 i mean now... 

I'll see myself out. 

[Dinamite]

41 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

I'm not sold on this dogma about M.L being fixated on all this LOS traffic w/ motion plays, and the like. but even if they want more of that--

• why take Zach Wilson? Any ashole can throw bubbles and wheels. You're not utilizing his assets. 
• finding gadget/role/multi-faceted role players is 10x easier in both FA and draft, then a purebred. 
• Burks is actually able to do some of that in addition to being a bona fide boundary guy for those contested catches that DO make use of Wilson's talents and were sorely absent for most of the year. 
• London also give Wilson exactly what he needs

If the Jets are truly looking to support Wilson and give this Offense more flexibility, then the only options are Burks and London IMO 

You don't like Garret Wilson? Or just don't think he is as good of a fit for the jets?

[Stark]

On 12/22/2021 at 3:48 PM, Columbia Jet Fan said:

People may find these interesting: 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

There's a post on Twitter (that was shared here in ONE of these threads) that charted each of the top WRs by route ran.   It was clear that Burks can play any WR position and he is equally adept at going over the middle (on slants), getting YAC on outs and screens, but also running deep routes and winning the 50/50s. 

Given that Moore excelled in the 'Z' role, I can see Burks playing the Big Slot for us and having a Michael Thomas like impact.  Also to note, Burks has 5XL hands (that require custom gloves be made)... having mitts like that makes it easy to catch Zach's fastballs. 

this is what you referring to.... VOTEGSEXY lazy play sir.... lol

[Greenseed4]

24 minutes ago, Stark said:

 

this is what you referring to.... VOTEGSEXY lazy play sir.... lol

I’ve been looking everywhere for those!

What thread was it in?

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Dinamite said:

You don't like Garret Wilson? Or just don't think he is as good of a fit for the jets?

oh no, i like him - absolutely... I just didn't want to muddy the thread with name drops. He's probably a better pure Z than X, but he can compliment Moore just fine. 

For me its Burks, London, Wilson and Pickens.. then everyone else. The order less important than getting one of those 4 IMO.

[Chrebetfan80]

7 hours ago, Paradis said:

oh no, i like him - absolutely... I just didn't want to muddy the thread with name drops. He's probably a better pure Z than X, but he can compliment Moore just fine. 

For me its Burks, London, Wilson and Pickens.. then everyone else. The order less important than getting one of those 4 IMO.

this i would agree with, not your order, but i agree with your sentiment for the offense.  I had williams in that group as well as we know but with the injury its tough. 

[Chrebetfan80]

9 hours ago, Paradis said:

really?...I have hard time seeing Burks slide. He doesn't have the symptoms like N'Keal Harry had before his/and others fell... We'll see, i'm saving him for last. I watched enough during the season(s) to feel good about it though. 

Olave.. I have him in round 3, but if I need a guy, i might take him in rnd 2 given there's basically no one behind him. 

I'm falling for London hard. 

Call it a gut feeling, I just think if any of those top guys are going to fall it may be him, and olave too i think will start to get picked apart.  I think he absolutely could go first round, but so far im not sure how many WR's will, I have a feeling the runs we'll see will be on edge and OL rather than WR which is why I see him lasting until that 20s range or if he really slides early second.  I could be completely off on this but just what im feeling currently. We'll see how the process plays out though its very early. 

[Chrebetfan80]

17 hours ago, derp said:

I think it really depends on the development trajectory. I get back to that Deebo Samuel gadget role but that’s a way to get production from a younger WR and I’d think the Jets could do that with Burks, which in an odd way raises his year one floor, and you can work on the other stuff. I also think SF wants most of their guys to do that which is why they layered Aiyuk on top of Samuel but maybe that’s not the Jets’ play at the position. I also think those clean wins he sometimes has on downfield routes fit nicely with easy reads for Wilson - it’s kind of like Metcalf sometimes where guys just can’t handle the weight speed combo once he gets going. I think he’s enough of a freak he’s still going to be tough to physically handle at the pro level. Flashes of just insane acceleration.

You know more than me but I’m surprised to read you use polish with London - maybe just because he’s a bit of an awkward mover and I know he’s new to football. I could see a natural knack for some things for sure and obviously Burks is raw. I’d think he’s got a wider year one range since if he struggles to separate with those slower looking feet and can’t muscle DB’s in the pros like he did in college he’s going to struggle - we’ve seen that with bigger guys before.

I’m sure the injury is a clean one to come back from but that adds a little risk too. Burks seems to get nicked up which is a little scary but plays through it.

I’m I guess a little more convinced Burks is going to be tough to tackle at the NFL level than I am that London is going to be a catch point monster. Believe both but the Burks path is cleaner in my head. I’d also view the fit thing differently in a different offense - the Samuel thing is just kind of burned into my head at this point and I can’t get away from it.

Burks size speed combo makes him a matchup problem all over the field and of course his ability to go up for the ball in contested situations.  A few things that to me when I watch the film there are things I see that London does better and seems more polished than Burks.  Now i think part of this is because Burks athleticism allows him to get away with a lot of poor footwork, hand mechanics, and realeases. 

London saw a lot of press, presumably because he was. not going to run past anyone, so what youre able to see is a repertoire of release moves, now does he have what I would call a robust package?  no but he's on the right track for sure on a lot of them.  He slides and threatens leverage well on them, understand when to try certain releases which to me is really important.  Burks I just have not seen as much press in what I've watched and when I have his releases are ok, but because he's moved around a lot he has not been able to show as much in this regard or may not have worked on much either. 

I think currently even London has the edge in route running as well. Burks rounds a lot of his breaks which some of has to do with the offense, but I have not seen as much evidence of him using tempo to set up stems, stemming routes to set up breaks, or making hard breaks on in and out cuts.   London while not having good separation speed shows the tendancies of a WR that has had to get creative to win on routes.  He knows how to use tempo, how to stem, because for him without having that elite speed and being a high cut type of player due to his size and length is what allows him to get open on alot of his routes.  Obviously his ball tracking and high pointing is extremely good, but london has really shown a good deal of growth in his technique and I think there is still a lot of room to grow.  

I think burks size speed will provide scouts with a little more sizzle to their steak,  i just think Londons game has a little more substance if that makes sense. 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

this i would agree with, not your order, but i agree with your sentiment for the offense.  I had williams in that group as well as we know but with the injury its tough. 

I would have included him as well, albeit he’d be the only I’d get more picky about when/where. 

after them tho, barren. Olave will be drafted way higher than I could stomach. Dotson is just redundancy to me (Moore) and wouldn’t look Bell’s way till late day 3. I have thing for Tolbert, but after Gandy-Golden and Jamarius Way, I feel burnt. 

Justyn Ross of course is a thing, but how do I know I’m getting the freshman beast, and not the oft-injured underachiever we’ve seen since? 

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

I would have included him as well, albeit he’d the only I’d get more picky about when/where. 

after them tho, barren. Olave will be drafted way higher than I could stomach. Dotson is just redundancy to me (Moore) and wouldn’t look Bell’s way till late day 3. I have thing for Tolbert, but after A. Ganda-Golden and Jamarius Way, I feel burnt. 

Justyn Ross of course is a thing, but how do I know I’m getting the freshman beast, and not oft-injured underachiever? 

Ross is going to be interesting to watch Pre draft.   He played most of this season with a stress fracture in his foot.   They also moved him in the slot for reasons only Tony Elliot could tell you.  Then add in the complete ineptness at QB, and you have a really bad season to evaluate Justyn.  For a day 3 pick, Ross could be decent value.   

[nycdan]

Just now, Paradis said:

I would have included him as well, albeit he’d the only I’d get more picky about when/where. 

after them tho, barren. Olave will be drafted way higher than I could stomach. Dotson is just redundancy to me (Moore) and wouldn’t look Bell’s way till late day 3. I have thing for Tolbert, but after A. Ganda-Golden and Jamarius Way, I feel burnt. 

Justyn Ross of course is a thing, but how do I know I’m getting the freshman beast, and not oft-injured underachiever? 

I loved Ross that year.  Thought he was a natural born burner and in that offense.... those injuries were a crime against football.

Funny thing...I like Olave more last year when he was playing with Fields.  I didn't think as much of him this year even though the stats were comparable (adjusting for # of games).

As the dust settles, I see a potential issue.  If we generally agree we like four guys (Burks, London, Wilson, Pickens) then do we think one of them will last until the #35 pick.  Are we hoping for that, or are we taking the best one available at #10?  It also supports a trade either down from #10 or up from #35 (or #38) to make sure we get at least one.  Moving up from top top of round 2 into the bottom of round 1 might be sufficient and should only cost us our 3rd or 4th depending on how high we have to go.  Not ideal, but perhaps warranted this year.  Bear in mind that with 4 picks in the 1st two rounds, we can afford to give up a Day 2 pick to get a guy we need although that's roughly where we might be grabbing a much-needed TE or RG.

So is it Burks at #10.  Something like Wilson +a 3rd rounder at around #14? or London at #24 for our #38 + #69?  What to do...

 

[Chrebetfan80]

10 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I would have included him as well, albeit he’d be the only I’d get more picky about when/where. 

after them tho, barren. Olave will be drafted way higher than I could stomach. Dotson is just redundancy to me (Moore) and wouldn’t look Bell’s way till late day 3. I have thing for Tolbert, but after Gandy-Golden and Jamarius Way, I feel burnt. 

Justyn Ross of course is a thing, but how do I know I’m getting the freshman beast, and not the oft-injured underachiever we’ve seen since? 

I agree, Im not as big an olave fan as I was coming into the year, just looking at his tape this year and everything else.   This is not a great WR draft at all, there are some guys that I think you can take late and hope for the best, but honestly if you want a player that can contribute early I think you have the names we said and thats about it.  Agree on Dotson, Like the player but its redundant at this point.  

To me, this team is not in a position to take a chance on a guy like Ross.. He could provide good upside late, but the injuries have just mounted over the years and to take a flier on a guy like that now when were really trying to improve... idk just seems like something a team like a team a little more settled at the position could afford to do.  like the cowboys or something. 

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I loved Ross that year.  Thought he was a natural born burner and in that offense.... those injuries were a crime against football.

Funny thing...I like Olave more last year when he was playing with Fields.  I didn't think as much of him this year even though the stats were comparable (adjusting for # of games).

As the dust settles, I see a potential issue.  If we generally agree we like four guys (Burks, London, Wilson, Pickens) then do we think one of them will last until the #35 pick.  Are we hoping for that, or are we taking the best one available at #10?  It also supports a trade either down from #10 or up from #35 (or #38) to make sure we get at least one.  Moving up from top top of round 2 into the bottom of round 1 might be sufficient and should only cost us our 3rd or 4th depending on how high we have to go.  Not ideal, but perhaps warranted this year.  Bear in mind that with 4 picks in the 1st two rounds, we can afford to give up a Day 2 pick to get a guy we need although that's roughly where we might be grabbing a much-needed TE or RG.

So is it Burks at #10.  Something like Wilson +a 3rd rounder at around #14? or London at #24 for our #38 + #69?  What to do...

 

London at 10 and Williams at 38?   Go all in at WR for once.   

[derp]

1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Burks size speed combo makes him a matchup problem all over the field and of course his ability to go up for the ball in contested situations.  A few things that to me when I watch the film there are things I see that London does better and seems more polished than Burks.  Now i think part of this is because Burks athleticism allows him to get away with a lot of poor footwork, hand mechanics, and realeases. 

London saw a lot of press, presumably because he was. not going to run past anyone, so what youre able to see is a repertoire of release moves, now does he have what I would call a robust package?  no but he's on the right track for sure on a lot of them.  He slides and threatens leverage well on them, understand when to try certain releases which to me is really important.  Burks I just have not seen as much press in what I've watched and when I have his releases are ok, but because he's moved around a lot he has not been able to show as much in this regard or may not have worked on much either. 

I think currently even London has the edge in route running as well. Burks rounds a lot of his breaks which some of has to do with the offense, but I have not seen as much evidence of him using tempo to set up stems, stemming routes to set up breaks, or making hard breaks on in and out cuts.   London while not having good separation speed shows the tendancies of a WR that has had to get creative to win on routes.  He knows how to use tempo, how to stem, because for him without having that elite speed and being a high cut type of player due to his size and length is what allows him to get open on alot of his routes.  Obviously his ball tracking and high pointing is extremely good, but london has really shown a good deal of growth in his technique and I think there is still a lot of room to grow.  

I think burks size speed will provide scouts with a little more sizzle to their steak,  i just think Londons game has a little more substance if that makes sense. 

Yeah that definitely makes sense - kind of what I was dancing around but never really said, you calling London more polished than Burks is more about how raw Burks is than how polished London is. I tend to think in more binary terms where if you're going for polish then go for polish (Wilson), traits then traits (Burks) and London's kind of in a middle ground. But basically you've seen London flash enough of what he needs to do that you're comfortable with the trajectory and Burks is really just a bet on traits. Obviously either would have very different roles if the Jets took them.

Was also thinking about the back and forth regarding the gadget stuff and I think part of where I've gotten to is I think if the Jets take a round one guy it's to be the primary touch guy in the passing game (obviously) and in my head it'd be helpful - though not necessary - if your every down primary guy is able to fit into that stuff that helps the run game. That and it's really less about the gadget stuff and more about the ability to create with the ball in your hands that's important for the offense in general but also happens to fit into the gadget stuff. And then obviously Burks, as raw as he is, would need to be used that way early - but in this offense there's a clear trajectory for him.

I think Burks is risky as a prospect anyway but would be riskier for a team that doesn't already have the kind of stuff we've already seen in the Jets' playbook to help bring him along. And with Moore and Davis already he could be brought along gradually.

London certainly fits too, in a different way, and then I think there's probably a different path to replacing Davis than there would be if they took Burs. 

[derp]

8 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I loved Ross that year.  Thought he was a natural born burner and in that offense.... those injuries were a crime against football.

Funny thing...I like Olave more last year when he was playing with Fields.  I didn't think as much of him this year even though the stats were comparable (adjusting for # of games).

As the dust settles, I see a potential issue.  If we generally agree we like four guys (Burks, London, Wilson, Pickens) then do we think one of them will last until the #35 pick.  Are we hoping for that, or are we taking the best one available at #10?  It also supports a trade either down from #10 or up from #35 (or #38) to make sure we get at least one.  Moving up from top top of round 2 into the bottom of round 1 might be sufficient and should only cost us our 3rd or 4th depending on how high we have to go.  Not ideal, but perhaps warranted this year.  Bear in mind that with 4 picks in the 1st two rounds, we can afford to give up a Day 2 pick to get a guy we need although that's roughly where we might be grabbing a much-needed TE or RG.

So is it Burks at #10.  Something like Wilson +a 3rd rounder at around #14? or London at #24 for our #38 + #69?  What to do...

 

Hope that Philly wants to get ahead of a division rival (Washington or even the Giants) and Douglas can leverage his relationships there to move down a little?

Also having two second round picks, would hate to lose that draft capital in that area where the draft is pretty strong, but 35+38 would match up pretty well in value with 24+56 or 25+57 - move up without losing capital.

Definitely agree both with the value mismatch at WR and the idea that while you could give up a R2 pick that's an important area for positions like TE.