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If Zach Wilson doesn’t work out here should the Jets stop drafting QBs for a while?


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6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Can you point to all the great QB success stories under Greg Knapp RIP?

From https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/broncos-greg-knapp-dead-age-58

Knapp was renowned as a teacher and for being a ‘quarterback whisperer’ around the league and for his adaptability. Indeed, he worked with a variety of different quarterbacks with aplomb, coaching the likes of Hall-of-Famers such as Young and Manning at the tail end of their careers, while still challenging them to elevate their performance. 

Knapp made stars out of Michael Vick, Jeff Garcia, and Matt Schaub, and coached the likes of Matt Ryan and Carson Palmer. During his NFL career, Knapp's quarterbacks reached a combined 11 Pro Bowls and had five different 4,000-yard passers: Young, Garcia, Palmer, Manning, and Ryan.

 

Beats the hell out of Trubisky or Hoyer or Minshew as a "mentor."

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I really blow hot and cold on this issue.  It seems like every year there are 3 or 4 new QBs coming into the league that are expecting to start.  They may stick for 4 or 5 seasons depending on draft position or they may even be launched before their option year like Winston, mariota, trubisky, or even tannehill. Some of these guys make it back with their second teams but it seems like that is more about desire than physical talent.  Some need to mature mentally before finally having success.  I guess my point is it looks like the nfl is moving away from the 10+ year team with the same QBs. So many offenses succeed because they are well balanced and don’t need the real playmaker QBs. It’s like they can put nearly any QBs behind center and win.

what does this have to do with Wilson? Not much, yet. But after this past season I think anyone would be hard pressed to say he will be re-signed for his option year. Another point is that should the jets go the vet QBs route, if the guy has success then the price will automatically sky rocket.

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Yea unfortunately if you dont win the qb lottery, you are stuck rerolling until you do.  Its been the same story for many teams for the last 40 years.

Now you don’t necessarily need a superstar to win or to get to a sb.  See Foles et al.  But you pretty much need an above average qb (one that is eg top 16), or at least one that is streaky and happens to be playing like one.  Garrop was a top 10 qb the year he went to the superbowl.

Moreover, if you look at the long term playoff runs, you will see that the merely ok qbs, are only getting to 1 or 2 superbowls in their career, and only a few more playoff runs.  Meanwhile Brees, Rogers, Mahomes and Big Ben are in the playoffs basically every single year of their career, rolling the dice.

So it definitely helps significantly with the odds.

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1 hour ago, Ray Ryan said:

we should draft more undersized qbs who never had a good game facing real defenses in college as long as Chris Simms says so

And yet being the only one of the top 3 picked who you can complain about his college competition, playing with the worst offensive unit of the 3, he finished ahead of Fields and barely behind Lawrence.

 

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The Jets need to take a flier on a reclamation project like Trubisky or Mariota this off season. The worst situation that Joe Douglas could find himself in next season is halfway through the season, Zach Wilson is still struggling, and Joe D and the Jets have nobody to turn to. Joe Flacco ain't going to get it done.

The only way a GM like Joe Douglas can survive if his top pick QB busts is if he has someone of the roster who can step up and be an answer for the Jets. Guys like Trubisky and Mariota, or even Minshew or someone like that, make way too much sense for Joe Douglas. If he puts all his eggs in the Zach Wilson bucket next year, and it goes south, he could get fired. And I like Zach Wilson as a QB prospect. I'm still hopeful that he will take a big leap next year. But Douglas has to set himself and the Jets up for a contingency plan in case that doesn't happen. Being non-competitive is not acceptable. 

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3 hours ago, TheClashFan said:

Regarding Sanchez, yeah, didn't the Jets have arguably the best OL in the league his first year, with the #1 rushing offense?  IIRC.

However, dropping Alan Faneca at LG and replacing Damien Woody at RT with Wayne Hunter pretty much ruined all that.  

I agree completely. 

Tanny couldn't afford to keep all of them - and that's what I'm talking about the QB evolving.  Sanchez never got better.  he never got to the spot where he didn't need a top a running game.

But the Jets put him in a great position to succeed.  That's not what they've done with Sam or Zach.

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It makes sense if you can sign an established NFL Qb to be your starter you know what you’re getting and the player can step right in and perform. When you draft someone you are taking more of a chance on them and I’m not for giving up seasons until they develop or worse yet tanking so you can draft them. But we put all our eggs in this basket last year Zach has 13 starts so why go backward. The decision was made and he wasn’t overall terrible. I would bring in a vet as a backup and/or to compete in training camp. If Zach plays poorly and gets benched if he’s smart he would then fix those mistakes. Bringing in a vet Qb to compete with a struggling younger Qb sometimes works out like it did in Tennessee when they traded for Tannehill who beat out Mariota. 

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10 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

I agree. And if the vet beat ZW out in camp he got the job to start the yearand see where it goes from there, that being said that ship has sailed. There can’t be a competition this year. It’s Zach’s job to lose. Putting him in a competition at this point is counter productive even thought that should’ve been the plan from day 1


Disagree fully.  I’m ok with Wilson winning the job even if the vet performs a little better in camp.  We just need a viable plan B if/when Wilson fails so we can evaluate the rest of the roster properly.

Its not about competition in year 2.  It’s about hedging your bets. 

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8 hours ago, tfine said:

Build up the roster first. Then draft a QB…….no QB would succeed with the roster we have.

Except we saw 3 other QBs perform just fine with this roster.

QBs have been getting drafted to bad teams year after year.  Not all of them fail.  Burrow, Herbert, Kyler were all solid out of the gates.  

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8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The failure of every drafted Jets QB is an infrastructure problem. They simply don’t have the capacity to develop high end QB talent here. They need to either flush the system altogether or they pay the price to bring in pre-developed QBs. They never should have drafted Wilson in the first place. They should have waited out the Watson and Russell Wilson situations while loading up on draft capital by trading #2 to San Fran.


The infrastructure was pretty good when Sanchez was drafted.

The Jets’ failings have been more about poor evaluation skills than the supporting personnel.  

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7 hours ago, maury77 said:

I agree with the original poster. If Wilson doesn't work out, make sure you have a strong team in place before drafting another QB. Its what the team did in 2009 with Sanchez and the team went to 2 AFC championships in spite of a mediocre QB. 

Sanchez still sucked his first 2 years and ultimately failed.  Not a great argument.

He wasn’t “mediocre”.  He was bad.  Mediocre would have been an upgrade.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:


Disagree fully.  I’m ok with Wilson winning the job even if the vet performs a little better in camp.  We just need a viable plan B if/when Wilson fails so we can evaluate the rest of the roster properly.

Its not about competition in year 2.  It’s about hedging your bets. 

If you pull Wilson for a vet for extended period of time next season it’s safe to say the Wilson era is over, I just don’t see them giving up on him during year 2

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6 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Yawn. Most overrated thing in football. 

I’m not advocating for a veteran mentor.  I’m advocating for a plan B and a strong QB room.  QB is the most important position on the field but people think it’s a bad idea to try to have 2 good ones around?

Without a capable vet, you can’t really tell what talent you actually have on offense if/when your rookie struggles.

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1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

Sign Trubisky or Minshew. Have a fair TC competition. If Zach can’t beat either of those guys in his second season he doesn’t deserve the job.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

If we try to sign Minshew we will be penalized draft picks for tampering. 

He’s under contract to another NFL team. 

We can’t just “sign” him. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

If you pull Wilson for a vet for extended period of time next season it’s safe to say the Wilson era is over, I just don’t see them giving up on him during year 2

Wilson starts Week 1, if he sucks the 1st half of the season or so, he gets pulled and we start looking for a new QB in 2023.  I see nothing wrong with this plan.  

Seems to me you’re advocating Wilson getting 3 years no matter what.  That didn’t work so well with Darnold.

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4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

*Immediately prior to

I see no difference.  Yes Rex sucked but he had very little to do with Sanchez that first year or 2.  All he cared about was the defense.  Only when Rex started dipping into the personnel decisions and offensive coaching more in 2011 did things take a downturn.

Sanchez had basically everything he needed to succeed those 1st 2 years. Thank you Mangini.

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Wilson starts Week 1, if he ducks he gets pulled and we start looking for a new QB in 2023.  I see nothing wrong with this plan.  Seems to me you’re advocating Wilson getting 3 years no matter what.  That didn’t work so well with Darnold.

I’m not advocating it. Just think that’s what will happen. He gets 2021 & 2022 before they think about replacing him. Unless he looks worse next year than this year. Whether I agree with it or not is irrelevant 

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5 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

This makes no sense whatsoever.  Back up the young highly drafted QB with failed slightly older highly drafted QBs?  And what does this competition between green inexperienced QBs and prior failures moving on to their 3rd-4th teams produce?  I think having a veteran back up on a contending team makes sense. If the starting QB is injured, you  want someone who can come in and hold the fort and win some games. For a rebuilding team in the current NFL, having a QB competition is a disaster. There are not enough practices under the new CBA if a young QB splits reps with the vet.  Plus the current use of social media by beat writers magnifies the competition and makes it unworkable.  "Wilson just threw a bad interception".  "Minshew went 1-5 in the red zone drill".  All it does is stir controversy. 


None of those guys i listed are failures.

And if Wilson can’t handle a little competition/controversy then he isn’t the guy.  Being the unquestioned starter didn’t seem to help his confidence this year, so….

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5 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

No , No and No ... I agree with what you are saying but I don't want anything to do with Winston and of the three I would say maybe Minshew ...Is this all thats available ? Jimmy G would be the perfect fit but if Zach Fails Jimmy is always hurt so theres that.

Jimmy G will only be a viable option if SF cuts him.

Other potential options include Tyrod Taylor and Fitz.  

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12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:


None of those guys i listed are failures.

And if Wilson can’t handle a little competition/controversy then he isn’t the guy.  Being the unquestioned starter didn’t seem to help his confidence this year, so….

Really?  Winston, Trubisky and Minshew didn't fail in their first stops in the NFL?  How do define failure for a QB then?  Out of the league completely?  Why aren't these QBs still with the teams that drafted them?  Please. 

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Just now, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Really?  Winston, Trubisky and Minshew didn't fail in their first stops in the NFL?  How do define failure for a QB then?  Out of the league completely?  Why aren't these QBs still with the teams that drafted them?  Please. 

They all suck. This line of BS is as entertaining as the other lines of BS. 

Zach is here for 3 years. 

And then another 10-12. 

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12 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Really?  Winston, Trubisky and Minshew didn't fail in their first stops in the NFL?  How do define failure for a QB then?  Out of the league completely?  Why aren't these QBs still with the teams that drafted them?  Please. 

Minshew is still on his rookie deal and did quite nicely when he got opportunities to play in Jacksonville and Philly.  Trubisky put up numbers the likes of Darnold could only dream of in Chicago, and will be a successful starter somewhere soon.  And Winston once had a 5,000+ yard, 33-TD season.  

If that’s failure then I want a piece of that.  Those 3 QBs are better than anything the Jets have trotted out in over a decade, aside from one solid season out of Fitzpatrick.

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39 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I see no difference.  Yes Rex sucked but he had very little to do with Sanchez that first year or 2.  All he cared about was the defense.  Only when Rex started dipping into the personnel decisions and offensive coaching more in 2011 did things take a downturn.

Sanchez had basically everything he needed to succeed those 1st 2 years. Thank you Mangini.

Rex’s first move was to overpay for an ILB who instantly nicknamed Mark Sanchez “Nacho.”

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Just now, shawn306 said:

Putting a rookie QB out there with a bad Oline. No running game and bad receivers is usually a recipe for disaster. 
 

Ya gotta build this from the inside out. Line, Wr’s QB, RB

Except the team didn’t have a bad OL, running game or receivers (when mostly healthy) this year.

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55 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

*Immediately prior to

Is this just based on not liking Rex? I don’t see it.  

the Jets had the number 1 rushing attack, offensive line, and defense statistically in Sanchez’s first year. And no team ran the ball more often or better than the Jets from 2009-2010.  

Sanchez had a better roster in his first two years than Favre did. The defense was considerably better and Revis was at his peak. 

A healthy Favre on either the 2009 or 2010 team wins 12-13 games and gives us a chance to beat anyone in the playoffs, at least until he inevitably throws 3 killer picks in the championship game. 

 

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5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Is this just based on not liking Rex? I don’t see it.  

the Jets had the number 1 rushing attack, offensive line, and defense statistically in Sanchez’s first year. And no team ran the ball more often or better than the Jets from 2009-2010.  

Sanchez had a better roster in his first two years than Favre did. The defense was considerably better and Revis was at his peak. 

A healthy Favre on either the 2009 or 2010 team wins 12-13 games and gives us a chance to beat anyone in the playoffs, at least until he inevitably throws 3 killer picks in the championship game. 

 

The players who provided that rushing attack were all Mangini holdovers. Rex improved the defense. 

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