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Chicken Littles.


FidelioJet
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10 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm reading  all of these threads about how so many people were wrong about Allen...

I would love to go back and read all posts for his first two seasons about how much of a bust he was....

Have the courage to have  faith!

DITTO

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2 hours ago, docdhc said:

I don’t remember anyone being wowed by Kellen Clemens. 

On the day he was drafted, Ron Jaworski said Clemens was the steal of the draft. That's one. 

Wilson either or will not be a player. The whole "QB X sucked in year 1 but became a great player, so this new shiny Jets QB who sucked in year 1 will be a great player" argument is pointless. An we have seen it here forever. What is fair is Wilson is not physically anything like Allen. 

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19 minutes ago, Bugg said:

On the day he was drafted, Ron Jaworski said Clemens was the steal of the draft. That's one. 

Wilson either or will not be a player. The whole "QB X sucked in year 1 but became a great player, so this new shiny Jets QB who sucked in year 1 will be a great player" argument is pointless. An we have seen it here forever. What is fair is Wilson is not physically anything like Allen. 

I agree these arguments are pointless. We don’t know if he’ll be successful yet. Whether he is like Allen or not is pointless too. Zach has the physical tools to be good and we’ll just have to wait at least another season to draw conclusions. 

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aren't Romo, Mahomes, Warner from 2nd tier schools?
Playing QB in the NFL is like having a kid, they are all different and can all be great in their own way if the underlying talent is there.
Wilson has elite traits, which were on display this year. His release, his escapability, not watching the rush, keeping eyes downfield, so much to be happy with as far as potential. He got no help from this team.
His issues this year were mechanics, and processing / the speed of the game, he tried to play backyard football when the game got too fast for him, and in the NFL that's not like in college...esp when you are throwing to guys who cant separate much.
So the question is, can Wilson do enough to get better, can the jets make it easier for him by protecting him and giving him guys that can catch a sh*t throw once in a while? i dont know the answers to any of these things...but the notion that you need to be 6'5 because you came from Delaware is nonsense.


Romo is incredibly football intelligent, and sat for 2 years. Mahomes has off the chart physical traits, and Sat for a year. Warner played how many seasons in how many leagues before his opportunity? So if your point is, like those 3, Wilson had no business on a football field as a rookie I completely agree.


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Just now, slimjasi said:

gee, a 21 year old rookie didn’t exhibit as much football intelligence as one of the GOAT QBs who was drafted in 2005? 
 

What an insightful post! Please tell us more 

Zach Wilson also can't grow a beard

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19 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 


Romo is incredibly football intelligent, and sat for 2 years. Mahomes has off the chart physical traits, and Sat for a year. Warner played how many seasons in how many leagues before his opportunity? So if your point is, like those 3, Wilson had no business on a football field as a rookie I completely agree.


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no

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21 hours ago, Barton said:

Allen is a good player but he does not win from the pocket. Relys on smoke and mirrors/gadget offense. He executes it at a high level, like Mahomes & Lamar. 

Let me know when he wins a superbowl. 

Will do. Reminds me more of Big Ben than other two. He actually looks tougher to tackle than Big Ben and way more athletic. If he doesn’t win a Suoerbowl  in Buffalo the Bills will never ever ever win one then . He is their  chance and I think they know it, 

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19 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 


Romo is incredibly football intelligent, and sat for 2 years. Mahomes has off the chart physical traits, and Sat for a year. Warner played how many seasons in how many leagues before his opportunity? So if your point is, like those 3, Wilson had no business on a football field as a rookie I completely agree.


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Kind of heavy handed but nothing to Disagree with. Zach should have sat beginning of year and not have to get hurt and sit out ti see how the offense needed ti be ran. No idea why at this point anyone couid argue that, 

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On 1/16/2022 at 12:37 AM, jeremy2020 said:

Are you really trying to make the argument that Wilson isn't bad because Allen's stats were bad in his rookie season? 

Allen is an extreme outlier based on his rookie season. There's literally no other examples. 

Another be patient post turned into he can ever become good because of blah, blah, blah

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20 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 


Romo is incredibly football intelligent, and sat for 2 years. Mahomes has off the chart physical traits, and Sat for a year. Warner played how many seasons in how many leagues before his opportunity? So if your point is, like those 3, Wilson had no business on a football field as a rookie I completely agree.


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Except this isn't true

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On 1/16/2022 at 12:37 AM, jeremy2020 said:

Are you really trying to make the argument that Wilson isn't bad because Allen's stats were bad in his rookie season? 

Allen is an extreme outlier based on his rookie season. There's literally no other examples. 

Eli manning

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On 1/16/2022 at 12:34 AM, FidelioJet said:

I'm reading  all of these threads about how so many people were wrong about Allen...

I would love to go back and read all posts for his first two seasons about how much of a bust he was....

Have the courage to have  faith!

Posting in a not-so-stealth "Peyton Manning was bad as a rookie, so Wilson will be great too, have faith!!!!" thread.

Most people were wrong about both Allan and Lamar Jackson.  Including no small number of well paid NFL GM's.

The vast bulk of JN's userbase was behind Rosen and Darnold and Mayfield.  There were certainly a few Allen guys, and only a small handful of Jackson guys.

The gripe of Allan was he had a bazooka, but was horribly inaccurate.  He appears to have cured that in a system designed around him to help him cure it.  Still, his improvement in completion % from college to his rookie year to now is quite notable.  Possibly historic, actually.

The gripe of Jackson was he was a runner, not a QB.  And for the most part that is true, he's not a very good QB, but he's one hell of a runner playing QB.  He and Baltimore have mostly made it work.  

Hard to see many similarities between Allen and Wilson as players that would make the usual "he did it, so have faith Wilson will do it" meme comparison valid.

Wilson might certainly improve, but it will have nothing to do with Josh Allen or faith of fans.

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1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Kind of heavy handed but nothing to Disagree with. Zach should have sat beginning of year and not have to get hurt and sit out ti see how the offense needed ti be ran. No idea why at this point anyone couid argue that, 

The only argument for that would be that Zach was handling OTA's and Preseason fairly well, that the coaching staff thought he was ready. I am always blaming them for putting him out there too soon, however maybe they didn't anticipate the OL play being as bad as it was in the first 5 games, and Zach going into a shell from being pounded. Like I've said previously, Zach got a ton of cobwebs growing inside his head the first 5 weeks and didn't know where to go until he actually saw what White and Flacco did with basically the same team. 

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On 1/16/2022 at 8:53 AM, section314 said:

From reading this thread so far, I guess Josh Allen is the only player in NFL history that has gotten significantly better from his rookie season, so that makes him an outlier? Am I reading this correctly?

It seems to be what you are reading here, but it is tremendously incorrect.

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22 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Posting in a not-so-stealth "Peyton Manning was bad as a rookie, so Wilson will be great too, have faith!!!!" thread.

Most people were wrong about both Allan and Lamar Jackson.  Including no small number of well paid NFL GM's.

The vast bulk of JN's userbase was behind Rosen and Darnold and Mayfield.  There were certainly a few Allen guys, and only a small handful of Jackson guys.

The gripe of Allan was he had a bazooka, but was horribly inaccurate.  He appears to have cured that in a system designed around him to help him cure it.  Still, his improvement in completion % from college to his rookie year to now is quite notable.  Possibly historic, actually.

The gripe of Jackson was he was a runner, not a QB.  And for the most part that is true, he's not a very good QB, but he's one hell of a runner playing QB.  He and Baltimore have mostly made it work.  

Hard to see many similarities between Allen and Wilson as players that would make the usual "he did it, so have faith Wilson will do it" meme comparison valid.

Wilson might certainly improve, but it will have nothing to do with Josh Allen or faith of fans.

Slight correction, on Allen from my recollection. After his rookie season he went into a program with Jordan Palmer (yes the same Jordan Palmer that totally fixed Sam Darnold) and they revamped his throwing motion and made it more efficient. 

Bottom line of this, players are people (yes, really). And as with people some mature faster and more readily than others. Some, it takes longer. Some regress. Some never get there.

As with people, it is unfair to put players in boxes and say "because of this, this will happen". And are often incorrect. Me, among those.

And as I always say here, opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one, and that is why Max is a millionaire, and we are just his peasants. We are an opinionated lot.

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6 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

The only argument for that would be that Zach was handling OTA's and Preseason fairly well, that the coaching staff thought he was ready. I am always blaming them for putting him out there too soon, however maybe they didn't anticipate the OL play being as bad as it was in the first 5 games, and Zach going into a shell from being pounded. Like I've said previously, Zach got a ton of cobwebs growing inside his head the first 5 weeks and didn't know where to go until he actually saw what White and Flacco did with basically the same team. 

All that true and it’s also the challenge. The coaching staff must have been really enamored with him to think they could install that line with that scheme that quick. It seemed it was an obvious issue in training camp especially on the left where Becton was being beaten like a drum in a daily bases. Plus we lost the one kid who retired for personal reasons 
 

Yea, Zach looked great before the season started and honestly did a pretty nice job the first game  but was terribly let down by line and receivers. That’s were he turned to mush and struggled mightily (blah blah Titans game ) until he got hurt and  sat out. They should have built it around an ok vet and put the kid in when it started to click, is what it is. 

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So here's the thing about Josh Allen.

He is the biggest QB outlier in the NFL in my lifetime.

Big, strong armed athletes who are terribly inaccurate and lack the nuances of the game and put up poor stats in college rarely, if ever, pan out.

When those guys come in and stink as rookies, it's rare they dramatically improve.

When they continue to be mediocre at best in their second year, it's rare they turn into much.

For him to become an MVP candidate in year three, where all his obvious physical gifts are utilized alongside newfound efficiency is pretty much unheard of.

The Bills gambled on something with long odds and huge upside and they hit the jackpot. Josh Allen is the reason why guys like Christian Hackenberg get drafted -- because even though they kinda sucked in college coaches or evaluators think "I can fix him. I can make him a star." (Yes, Josh Allen is much more gifted than Hackenberg. But the general point stands.)

Credit to Brandon Beane, Sean McDermott, Brian Daboll, and Ken Dorsey. And most importantly, credit to Josh Allen himself. They all worked hard and defied the odds and will be a thorn in our side for the next twenty years.

(I'll also throw out there that after looking like a world beater in year three, Allen regressed a little this year. Still a great QB but not the unstoppable juggernaut he looked like he might be. Which should be cause for a little relief.)

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1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

So here's the thing about Josh Allen.

He is the biggest QB outlier in the NFL in my lifetime.

Big, strong armed athletes who are terribly inaccurate and lack the nuances of the game and put up poor stats in college rarely, if ever, pan out.

When those guys come in and stink as rookies, it's rare they dramatically improve.

When they continue to be mediocre at best in their second year, it's rare they turn into much.

For him to become an MVP candidate in year three, where all his obvious physical gifts are utilized alongside newfound efficiency is pretty much unheard of.

The Bills gambled on something with long odds and huge upside and they hit the jackpot. Josh Allen is the reason why guys like Christian Hackenberg get drafted -- because even though they kinda sucked in college coaches or evaluators think "I can fix him. I can make him a star." (Yes, Josh Allen is much more gifted than Hackenberg. But the general point stands.)

Credit to Brandon Beane, Sean McDermott, Brian Daboll, and Ken Dorsey. And most importantly, credit to Josh Allen himself. They all worked hard and defied the odds and will be a thorn in our side for the next twenty years.

(I'll also throw out there that after looking like a world beater in year three, Allen regressed a little this year. Still a great QB but not the unstoppable juggernaut he looked like he might be. Which should be cause for a little relief.)

Look at this rookie's stats that became a HOF player

 

11G

52.9 comp pct

1749 yards

9TD

18 INT

159Y/G

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1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

Look at this rookie's stats that became a HOF player

 

11G

52.9 comp pct

1749 yards

9TD

18 INT

159Y/G

If you're quoting stats from the 1980s, please, stop. They could not be less relevant to the discussion we're having.

(Also, Troy Aikman is in the Hall of Fame because he played on loaded teams and won the Super Bowl three times. He's one of the more overrated players in NFL history)

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Just checking in, we haven’t made the playoffs in a dozen years, the longest active streak in the league by a wide margin, we haven’t had a winning record in 7 years, this weekend we watched a QB we drafted Sam Darnold over have a monster game and a QB we drafted Jamal Adams over do the same, our LT missed the whole season with a 4-8 week injury in week 1 and recent reports worry about a return for next offseason, and our #2 pick QB put together an absolutely awful season…

But, we’re supposed to take comfort in the fact that our QB could maybe match an outlier who is on a list that only includes his own name, as opposed to the CVS receipt-long list of QBs who start poorly and stay that way, even though our QB has almost nothing in common with aforementioned anomaly?

Things may get better, but you probably ought not call a bunch of people who notice the sky is already in shattered piles around their ankles, Chicken Littles.

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6 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

If you're quoting stats from the 1980s, please, stop. They could not be less relevant to the discussion we're having.

(Also, Troy Aikman is in the Hall of Fame because he played on loaded teams and won the Super Bowl three times. He's one of the more overrated players in NFL history)

You said "in your lifetime". I assumed you were over 32 years old. My bad. 

Edit: and just as always with message board fans: This never happened before. Then, well I meant to exclude these variables.

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43 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Posting in a not-so-stealth "Peyton Manning was bad as a rookie, so Wilson will be great too, have faith!!!!" thread.

Most people were wrong about both Allan and Lamar Jackson.  Including no small number of well paid NFL GM's.

The vast bulk of JN's userbase was behind Rosen and Darnold and Mayfield.  There were certainly a few Allen guys, and only a small handful of Jackson guys.

The gripe of Allan was he had a bazooka, but was horribly inaccurate.  He appears to have cured that in a system designed around him to help him cure it.  Still, his improvement in completion % from college to his rookie year to now is quite notable.  Possibly historic, actually.

The gripe of Jackson was he was a runner, not a QB.  And for the most part that is true, he's not a very good QB, but he's one hell of a runner playing QB.  He and Baltimore have mostly made it work.  

Hard to see many similarities between Allen and Wilson as players that would make the usual "he did it, so have faith Wilson will do it" meme comparison valid.

Wilson might certainly improve, but it will have nothing to do with Josh Allen or faith of fans.

The thread is about hope....

About not being afraid to be optimistic...Not being afraid to once again be disappointed.

It's okay to root for your QB to succeed even if he eventually doesn't.  The opportunity for success is out there - so don't be a scared!

This thread is not targeted to everyone - just the fans that are actively rooting against their QB because they're scared of getting their hearts broken again.

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