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Chicken Littles.


FidelioJet
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Just now, FidelioJet said:

The thread is about hope....

About not being afraid to be optimistic...Not being afraid to once again be disappointed.

It's okay to root for your QB to succeed even if he eventually doesn't.  The opportunity for success is out there - so don't be a scared!

This thread is not targeted to everyone - just the fans that are actively rooting against their QB because they're scared of getting their hearts broken again.

I never realized you were a teenage girl.

Now it all makes sense, the love of dreamy Zach Wilson especially, lol.

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4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You said "in your lifetime". I assumed you were over 32 years old. My bad. 

Edit: and just as always with message board fans: This never happened before. Then, well I meant to exclude these variables.

Just like always with message board fans -- obscure facts to try to escape the more than likely conclusion that a massive data set indicates because, you know, hope.

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I never realized you were a teenage girl.

Now it all makes sense, the love of dreamy Zach Wilson especially, lol.

I didn't think you were one of the Chicken Littles....Guess I was wrong.

You're choosing to protect your fragile emotions - as long as you root against him you could never be hurt.  

That sound an awful lot like a teenage girl afraid her boyfriend will break up with her, so she breaks up with him first..Lol.

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9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Just like always with message board fans -- obscure facts to try to escape the more than likely conclusion that a massive data set indicates because, you know, hope.

I am not supporting Wilson on either side here. I have said repeatedly, I have no idea what he will become.

Again, it was you that said "So here's the thing about Josh Allen. He is the biggest QB outlier in the NFL in my lifetime". Your words, not mine.

Again, I did not know your relative young age when I gave  you an example. You tried to dismiss by attacking a HOF player. Personally, I would be tickled if Wilson comes anything close to the career of Aikman.

No need to get your undies in a twist.

 

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5 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

There was a long time ago, on a site not-to-be-named, where I created a thread after Brady Quinn's junior season saying we should intentionally lose out all of our games the next year in order to be able to draft him.

 

I remember a long time ago when when after about 4 games, at least a vocal minority on this board were summarily calling for the firing of Mike LaFleur as offensive coordinator.

Short memories are the lifeblood of a message board.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I didn't think you were one of the Chicken Littles....Guess I was wrong.

You're choosing to protect your fragile emotions - as long as you root against him you could never be hurt.  

That sound an awful lot like a teenage girl afraid her boyfriend will break up with her, so she breaks up with him first..Lol.

As long as we're doing armchair psychoanalysis, may I submit that someone creating a "Chicken Littles" thread is doing so likely due to insecurities around their own position, which, may be full of hope but has a tenuous grasp on reality.  The goal, of course, is to assuage those insecurities by shaming others to their point of view and/or attacking those who don't relent as bad, wrong, emotional, etc.

That will be $250, and I'd be happy to provide you will a bill to submit to your insurance company for partial reimbursement.

Also, Symbolic Penis.

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4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I am not supporting Wilson on either side here. I have said repeatedly, I have no idea what he will become.

Again, it was you that said "So here's the thing about Josh Allen. He is the biggest QB outlier in the NFL in my lifetime". Your words, not mine.

Again, I did not know your relative young age when I gave  you an example. You tried to dismiss by attacking a HOF player. Personally, I would be tickled if Wilson comes anything close to the career of Aikman.

No need to get your undies in a twist.

 

I don't have my undies in a twist. I was responding to your sarcastic dismissive comment with my own.

He's the biggest outlier in the modern era of football (which probably began in earnest in the mid-2000s when they changed the rules around defensive holding) and is certainly the biggest outlier in the last 5-7 years as the game as continued to evolve.

Does that frame it better for you?

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1 minute ago, ZachEY said:

As long as we're doing armchair psychoanalysis, may I submit that someone creating a "Chicken Littles" thread is doing so likely due to insecurities around their own position, which, may be full of hope but has a tenuous grasp on reality.  The goal, of course, is to assuage those insecurities by shaming others to their point of view and/or attacking those who don't relent as bad, wrong, emotional, etc.

That will be $250, and I'd be happy to provide you will a bill to submit to your insurance company for partial reimbursement.

Also, Symbolic Penis.

Nah, I just drank too much Sunday night.

With that said, the only way I can shame someone is if they believe their viewpoint is shameful.  

You seem to be really angered by this, I apologize, it wasn't my intent to get you so upset.

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2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't have my undies in a twist. I was responding to your sarcastic dismissive comment with my own.

He's the biggest outlier in the modern era of football (which probably began in earnest in the mid-2000s when they changed the rules around defensive holding) and is certainly the biggest outlier in the last 5-7 years as the game as continued to evolve.

Does that frame it better for you?

They're ALL outliers...

Every single one of the very few franchise QB's in todays NFL are outliers...

There are maybe 10 of them and each of them went about out getting there different ways..

Some sat for two years, some for one, some sucked their first year, some sucked for two years, some came in to loaded teams already, some didn't etc...

 

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2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't have my undies in a twist. I was responding to your sarcastic dismissive comment with my own.

He's the biggest outlier in the modern era of football (which probably began in earnest in the mid-2000s when they changed the rules around defensive holding) and is certainly the biggest outlier in the last 5-7 years as the game as continued to evolve.

Does that frame it better for you?

If it makes you feel better, sure. But, the subject kind was about finding outliers. That is what we are trying to do in understanding Wilson numbers in comparison to others in rookie seasons.  My personal hope is that Wilson's rookie season is a HUGE outlier in comparison to the rest of his career.

The next time that you say, "never have I seen in my lifetime" in the future, I will just dismiss it as empty rhetoric and flowery language, and that you really are not interested in an engaged discussion.

 

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41 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Just checking in, we haven’t made the playoffs in a dozen years, the longest active streak in the league by a wide margin, we haven’t had a winning record in 7 years, this weekend we watched a QB we drafted Sam Darnold over have a monster game and a QB we drafted Jamal Adams over do the same, our LT missed the whole season with a 4-8 week injury in week 1 and recent reports worry about a return for next offseason, and our #2 pick QB put together an absolutely awful season…

But, we’re supposed to take comfort in the fact that our QB could maybe match an outlier who is on a list that only includes his own name, as opposed to the CVS receipt-long list of QBs who start poorly and stay that way, even though our QB has almost nothing in common with aforementioned anomaly?

Things may get better, but you probably ought not call a bunch of people who notice the sky is already in shattered piles around their ankles, Chicken Littles.

Holy hell, Bectons Injury was week 1? Damn. 

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4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If it makes you feel better, sure. But, the subject kind was about finding outliers. That is what we are trying to do in understanding Wilson numbers in comparison to others in rookie seasons.  My personal hope is that Wilson's rookie season is a HUGE outlier in comparison to the rest of his career.

The next time that you say, "never have I seen in my lifetime" in the future, I will just dismiss it as empty rhetoric and flowery language, and that you really are not interested in an engaged discussion.

 

It does NOT make me feel better. It makes me feel worse. But looking at the objective evidence it's the most likely conclusion.

I don't know why so many Jets fans think it's mutually exclusive to:

1) Hope that Zach Wilson is a franchise QB

2) Look at the objective evidence and recognize it's not looking promising.

The fact that you choose to nitpick a minor technical detail (or make assumptions that everyone is your age) rather than address the point being made isn't a trump card for you. It makes you look like you don't fundamentally understand what is being discussed.

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On 1/16/2022 at 12:37 AM, jeremy2020 said:

Are you really trying to make the argument that Wilson isn't bad because Allen's stats were bad in his rookie season? 

Allen is an extreme outlier based on his rookie season. There's literally no other examples. 

Neil Lomax?  Alex Smith? Troy Aikman? Jim Plunkett? Terry Bradshaw?

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18 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

It does NOT make me feel better. It makes me feel worse. But looking at the objective evidence it's the most likely conclusion.

I don't know why so many Jets fans think it's mutually exclusive to:

1) Hope that Zach Wilson is a franchise QB

2) Look at the objective evidence and recognize it's not looking promising.

The fact that you choose to nitpick a minor technical detail (or make assumptions that everyone is your age) rather than address the point being made isn't a trump card for you. It makes you look like you don't fundamentally understand what is being discussed.

My personal experience in dealing with a subjective matter, it is foolish to place objective rules.  And those that try, are often made to look foolish.

Have a great day.

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37 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I didn't think you were one of the Chicken Littles....Guess I was wrong.

You're choosing to protect your fragile emotions - as long as you root against him you could never be hurt.  

That sound an awful lot like a teenage girl afraid her boyfriend will break up with her, so she breaks up with him first..Lol.

Lol.

9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't know why so many Jets fans think it's mutually exclusive to:

1) Hope that Zach Wilson is a franchise QB

2) Look at the objective evidence and recognize it's not looking promising.

This.  Well said.

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24 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

They're ALL outliers...

Every single one of the very few franchise QB's in todays NFL are outliers..

This is the key point.

The vast majority of ALL QBs who come into the league bust or disappoint. Therefore, it’s hard to say that a mediocre or poor rookie season is a statistically significant predictor of future failure. Most guys bust regardless of their rookie years. 

 

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28 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

 

I don't know why so many Jets fans think it's mutually exclusive to:

1) Hope that Zach Wilson is a franchise QB

2) Look at the objective evidence and recognize it's not looking promising.

 

I think this is a very fair position, even if if I don't agree,  just wish more would take it...

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On 1/16/2022 at 1:38 AM, Snell41 said:

 


Wanna know something ironic? I said multiple times I felt his was the highest ceiling of his draft class. What I wonder more is how you look at Josh Allen and even think to compare Zach Wilson. Josh Allen is the prototype of what you look for if you’re taking a kid from 2nd tier colleges. Insane measurables and an ability to make plays with their legs. Comparing Zach Wilson to Josh Allen is like comparing Danny Devito to Arnold Schwarzenegger in Twins.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Do you even watch the games?

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Just now, jeremy2020 said:

None of those are the outlier that Allen is. Do you have more random examples? 

They are not random. Are you the arbiter of what qualifies as a bad rookie season? All of those guys were panned as busts and went on to have pretty good careers. 

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On 1/16/2022 at 9:37 AM, Barton said:

Allen is a good player but he does not win from the pocket. Relys on smoke and mirrors/gadget offense. He executes it at a high level, like Mahomes & Lamar. 

Let me know when he wins a superbowl. 

He reminds me of Bobby Douglas. Big tough guy who had a cannon for an arm.  But on a sucky team couldnt do anything 

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On 1/16/2022 at 1:17 AM, jeremy2020 said:

The point being.. it's been done once. This idea that QB having really, really bad seasons is reason to think they won't be bad.. is silly. Allen's improvement is not a repeatable thing.. we know that because he's the only example. 

That being said, as I and others have argued, the Jets did a piss poor job giving Wilson a chance given the realities of skills, abilities, experience and the situation of the team and they need to rectify that this offseason so they don't end up repeating "Darnold Year 3"

Yeah...I don't completely see it that way.  

You can't build a winning team in one season.  You just can't.  There is no farm system to grow your talent.  The NFL is a cruel, fickle bitch.  You learn on the job or you don't play.  Period. In the past, you looked for the one Peyton Manning in a see of Ryan Leafs.  Well, that doesn't work anymore.  Teams who try it who get lucky are the few compared to the many who want a QB to come in and be a saviour compared to growing as a professional.  

 

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On 1/16/2022 at 10:37 AM, Barton said:

Allen is a good player but he does not win from the pocket. Relys on smoke and mirrors/gadget offense. He executes it at a high level, like Mahomes & Lamar. 

Let me know when he wins a superbowl. 

WTF?

So, he's good but because he doesn't win from the pocket he isn't THAT good?  So what if he needs smoke and mirror gadget plays.  Is there a superior way to win now in the NFL I haven't heard about.  Last time I checked, they haven't divided the stats between "wins" and "superior" wins.  

And so even though he is a top ten QB in the league, better than we have had since Joe Namath, you need proof of a Super Bowl to prove his wins outside of the pocket using smoke and mirrors will be....equal?

I just don't understand.  I like Al Davis' motto of "just win baby!" far more than "lets win ideologically, or else its not as fun."

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

@Gastineau Lives why do you hate America?

MODS: DISCLAIMER: The following comment is meant as satire.  Its intentions are to elicit as sense of light-heartedness into the dialogue to further camaraderie.  Viewer discretion IS advised.

For the same reason anybody hates America:

image.thumb.png.5efb252e4168cb70fb4ce04a03d115c2.png

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2 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

MODS: DISCLAIMER: The following comment is meant as satire.  Its intentions are to elicit as sense of light-heartedness into the dialogue to further camaraderie.  Viewer discretion IS advised.

For the same reason anybody hates America:

image.thumb.png.5efb252e4168cb70fb4ce04a03d115c2.png

Canada is America’s little hat. 

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I think the vast bulk of people take exactly this view.

There are small minorities in the "NeverWilson" and "WilsonIsElite" camps.  

Just like any topic, 70% live in the sane and rational middle, 15% live on each side of insane extremism.

But all most hear are the 15%'ers yelling at each other.

I don't think there anyone is claiming 'Wilson is Elite'.  However, there are some saying he is definitely a bust which does grow tiresome TBH.  But I do agree that the majority of the board is taking a very reasonable wait and see approach with some more optimistic than others

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