Tom Brady

[shawn306]

3 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

League became far more pass friendly. Played on great teams. Is a great player. 

Truth. 

Not the goat though. Sorry can't do it. In an era where you cannot even breath on Brady without drawing a flag I will never put him up there with Montana's, Elway, Marino's, Fouts's of the world.

[Rhg1084]

Rodgers stats in the NFC Championship games? 9 TDs 8 ints! Can’t touch Brady as a big game QB, guy always folds 

[Rhg1084]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Think about this:

If Brady wins another one, he'll have double the number of Superbowl wins as Montana (8 to 4).  Not to mention that he also appeared 3 other times.

Exactly, but that guy thinks Montana is the GOAT cause he’s 4-0 ??

[Peace Frog]

2 hours ago, NYJ37/12 said:

Could you imagine how many yards Marino and Montana would have had in this NFL of clean pockets and wide open receivers?

How many pass interference calls would they have gotten.  DBs could maul receivers back then.  

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Right.

The other factor is that he was the best player on the dynasty that dominated the sport at a time when the NBA was at its peak of international popularity. Jordan was a perfect storm. 

AND Jordan beat all the greats. Think of all the all-time great players that did not win a Championship because of Jordan.  Hall of Famers with no rings.  

LeBron isn't beating anyone today.  

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I can tell you that at the Big O sure seemed to get more respect than Bill Russell.  That dude did not seem loved. 

Well, he averaged a triple double for 5 years and had more triple doubles than anyone for decades until Westbrook did it. And he was no O.   

Russell was one of the all-time greats but he also played on one of the greatest teams/franchises of all time.  

[Peace Frog]

40 minutes ago, Larz said:

Why did belicheat order that trainer off the team flight?

Because he wouldn't take off his headphones?

Oh wait, that was Geno.

So yeah, it was the steroids.

[Peace Frog]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Nah, he's not.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/16/tom-brady-gives-10-year-old-cancer-survivor-super-bowl-tickets/

While I hate Brady and he's not the GOAT, apparently he refused to come out of the last game to get Gronk one more catch to hit an extra $500K incentive.  Sticking up for his boy, gotta respect that.  

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2022/01/10/tom-brady-rob-gronkowski-bonus-buccaneers/49631275/

[kevin45]

There are 2 Mt. Rushmore's of GOAT's. One for Jordan, Gretzky, Ruth & Lombardi. Another for Brady, Bellichick, Bonds & Armstrong.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

What was Jordan's impact off the court?  Selling sneakers?  Whoop de doo.  He was as big an A$$hole as Brady.  Watch his HOF acceptance speech. The ultimate narcissist.  

Has nothing to do with him being an ass or not.  

And anyone who says "whoop de doo" to Jordan's cultural and off-court impact for the NBA simply doesn't understand the concept.

[Hex]

2 hours ago, section314 said:

No, Wayne Gretzky is. Gretzky did things and put up numbers that will never be broken. Guys that win scoring tittles today are still at least 100 pts shy of what Gretzky did. It's a good argument, but Jordan is no Gretzky.

The same could be argued for Brady 

Rodgers is the closest QB still in the league and he would need 4 seasons of around 50 TD passes each to get to what Brady is at right now. This isn't the only example either. He leads the NFL in career passing yards too, and by 20,000 yards more than the closest guy who hasn't retired yet, and that guy is Ben Roethlisberger.

Just like Gretzky, Brady has records that probably won't get broken for a long time just due to the sheer amount there is.

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, Hex said:

The same could be argued for Brady 

Rodgers is the closest QB still in the league and he would need 4 seasons of around 50 TD passes each to get to what Brady is at right now. This isn't the only example either. He leads the NFL in career passing yards too, and by 20,000 yards more than the closest guy who hasn't retired yet, and that guy is Ben Roethlisberger.

Just like Gretzky, Brady has records that probably won't get broken for a long time just due to the sheer amount there is.

To be fair, Rodgers is 6 years younger and he sat for 3 years behind #4 on that list.  

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Has nothing to do with him being an ass or not.  

And anyone who says "whoop de doo" to Jordan's cultural and off-court impact for the NBA simply doesn't understand the concept.

He had an economic impact.  What exactly was his "cultural" impact?  Jordan was all about Jordan and $$$.  He had no interest in off the court issues.

 

[Hex]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

To be fair, Rodgers is 6 years younger and he sat for 3 years behind #4 on that list.  

Still, do you think he will ever break that record? The youngest guy in the top 20 started in 2012, and probably won't even get close. There are only 9 players who started after 2010 who are still in the league in the top 100 on that list, and 3 of them are in the bottom 10 of that. I would say that even if Rodgers didn't sit for 3 years, Brady would still be on top by quite a bit.

[slimjasi]

5 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

He had an economic impact.  What exactly was his "cultural" impact?  Jordan was all about Jordan and $$$.  He had no interest in off the court issues.

 

Well, he was arguably the most popular/recognizable team sports athlete in the world for a decade. Air Jordans and Space Jam made some noise, that’s for sure.
 

i definitely think you are underselling his cultural impact. 

 

[ChuckkieB]

I hate Tom Brady with the passion of 1000 suns, but any attempt to diminish, disparage, or explain away his success and incredible list of accomplishments is just SOUR GRAPES by bitter Jets fans, plain and simple.  Someone said it earlier.  He is Babe Ruth.  He is Wayne Gretzky.  He is in a class all by himself.  He is the unequivocal GOAT.  To think otherwise is just folly.

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, Hex said:

Still, do you think he will ever break that record? The youngest guy in the top 20 started in 2012, and probably won't even get close. There are only 9 players who started after 2010 who are still in the league in the top 100 on that list, and 3 of them are in the bottom 10 of that. I would say that even if Rodgers didn't sit for 3 years, Brady would still be on top by quite a bit.

I have no idea if Rodgers will break it.  To stick around that long, you either have to have an enormous ego, be out of money, or just hate the guy in front of you.  

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

9 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Well, he was arguably the most popular/recognizable team sports athlete in the world for a decade. Air Jordans and Space Jam made some noise, that’s for sure.
 

i definitely think you are underselling his cultural impact. 

 

What is his cultural impact exactly?  Explain it  please.  Muhammad Ali had an enormous cultural impact.  What did Jordan do off the court other than sell sneakers and Doritos???

[rex-n-effect]

9 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

He had an economic impact.  What exactly was his "cultural" impact?  Jordan was all about Jordan and $$$.  He had no interest in off the court issues.

 

Jordan is not a good person but this is silly. Dude was everywhere culturally during the height of his career. People wore Bulls and Jordan gear because it was Jordan. There were cartoons, cereal, toys, etc. Music, especially hip hop, was full of references to him and outright songs about him. The most well known sport shoe in the world continues to sport his name and image nearly two decades after he stopped playing. His reputation stumbled when he left basketball, sucked at baseball and returned in not so great shape to basketball but the 1980s-1990s before he left he was on the short list for the most well known person in the country. 

[Hex]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I have no idea if Rodgers will break it.  To stick around that long, you either have to have an enormous ego, be out of money, or just hate the guy in front of you.  

That's a good point. Haha

[Peace Frog]

6 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

Jordan is not a good person but this is silly. Dude was everywhere culturally during the height of his career. People wore Bulls and Jordan gear because it was Jordan. There were cartoons, cereal, toys, etc. Music, especially hip hop, was full of references to him and outright songs about him. The most well known sport shoe in the world continues to sport his name and image nearly two decades after he stopped playing. His reputation stumbled when he left basketball, sucked at baseball and returned in not so great shape to basketball but the 1980s-1990s before he left he was on the short list for the most well known person in the country. 

He's one of the largest most recognizable sports persons in the history of the world--up there with Ali.

A cultural icon that transcends sports.  

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Brother, you've been around long enough to know this position is support by tons of posters.  @Sperm Edwards one of the biggest supporters of this logic.  Watch, they'll start coming out. 

You rang?

Yes he was a total stat compiler who did very few special things while carrying a football. Mediocre numbers over a well-above-mediocre number of carries = lots of yards.

I'd take someone truly great for 4 years over someone just pretty good for 10 years every single time. 

[slimjasi]

6 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

What is his cultural impact exactly?  Explain it  please.  Muhammad Ali had an enormous cultural impact.  What did Jordan do off the court other than sell sneakers and Doritos???

Well, he popularized signature sneakers for teens around the world. That’s a given - there were air Jordans and then everything else. He also starred in Space Jam - which topped the box office when it was released (no idea how those numbers hold Up today)

He’s easily one of the biggest cultural icons in American sports history. I’ll give you Ali, but Jordan is right there with anyone else you want to give me.
 

At the start of the century, ESPN ranked him at the top of their “100 greatest athletes of the century” list - he beat out Babe Ruth (#2) and Ali (#3). They didn’t do this because of his lack of cultural impact - that I can assure you. 

I’m not sure what you are really looking for, but i’m honestly surprised by your take 

[slimjasi]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You rang?

Yes he was a total stat compiler who did very few special things while carrying a football. Mediocre numbers over a well-above-mediocre number of carries = lots of yards.

I'd take someone truly great for 4 years over someone just pretty good for 10 years every single time. 

Ouch. 

Harshest take I've seen on Curtis in a minute. 

I get your point, though

[Hael]

43 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

To be fair, Rodgers is 6 years younger and he sat for 3 years behind #4 on that list.  

Heres another crazy Brady stat.

Aaron Rogers has 10 postseason wins against *NFC* teams.  Tom Brady also has ten wins against NFC teams, despite playing in the AFC for 20 years.

[greenwichjetfan]

58 minutes ago, Hex said:

The same could be argued for Brady 

He leads the NFL in career passing yards too, and by 20,000 yards more than the closest guy who hasn't retired yet, and that guy is Ben Roethlisberger.

Brady is in his 22nd season, but after removing the '08 year, he's averaging 4023k yards per season. The passing explosion that Peyton and Brady started back in the mid 2000s was mostly just for the ultra-elite, but by the early 2010s, even above average QBs were averaging huge yardage. I understand why you chose Ben to make your argument, but you need to choose QBs from the very next era. See below:

For reference:

• Ben was drafted in '04 and lost the first few years of his career playing for mostly run-first teams. Starting in '09, he averaged 4k yards per season when he started at least 10 games, 
• Stafford was drafted in '09 in his 13th season playing on mostly sh*tty teams, and has almost 60% of Brady's career yards in his 22nd season
• Russell was drafted in '12 and lost the first few years of his career playing for mostly run-first teams, and is still averaging 3700 yards per season. 
• Derek Carr drafted is in his 8th season and is averaging 38 yards less than 4k per season
• Dak is in his 6th season but essentially lost all of last year, and is averaging 4400 yards in his healthy seasons
• Patrick Mahomes lost his entire first year to learning on the bench, and is now in his 4th season starting and is averaging ~4,750 yards per season. Even if he starts 5 years less than Brady, he'll break Brady's record
• Kyler Murray is in his 3rd season and is averaging 3,800/season
• Herbert just finished his second season and is averaging 4,600/season

Just for fun and to really showcase the passing explosion, Baker is averaging 3500/season and is a truly sh*tty QB. That's 500 yards less than Brady per season, and they added a game to each season going forward. My point being: Brady is an inner circle all time great HoFer, but it's not like some of these records won't eventually fall. He benefitted from the passing explosion and helped clear the way for the younger guys who will eventually overtake his records. The way the game is going, passing is in, and it's here to stay for at least another generation from the grassroots to the highest levels. 

Also, brady benefitted from great teams, great coaching, and copious amounts of HGH. 

[greenwichjetfan]

21 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You rang?

Yes he was a total stat compiler who did very few special things while carrying a football. Mediocre numbers over a well-above-mediocre number of carries = lots of yards.

I'd take someone truly great for 4 years over someone just pretty good for 10 years every single time. 

Agree on everything, full-tilt. 

[Hal N of Provo]

1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

While I hate Brady and he's not the GOAT, apparently he refused to come out of the last game to get Gronk one more catch to hit an extra $500K incentive.  Sticking up for his boy, gotta respect that.  

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2022/01/10/tom-brady-rob-gronkowski-bonus-buccaneers/49631275/

“He got a cut of that for vitamin sales.” -AB probably 

[JetPotato]

2 hours ago, shawn306 said:

Truth. 

Not the goat though. Sorry can't do it. In an era where you cannot even breath on Brady without drawing a flag I will never put him up there with Montana's, Elway, Marino's, Fouts's of the world.

Does anyone here believe that a roughing the passer penalty would have been called like the one Sunday where he had his hip lightly grazed for any other QB in the history of the NFL?

Cuz, if you do, you're dumb.

[JetPotato]

2 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Well, he averaged a triple double for 5 years and had more triple doubles than anyone for decades until Westbrook did it. And he was no O.   

Russell was one of the all-time greats but he also played on one of the greatest teams/franchises of all time.  

Russell was also played in Boston, where appreciation was overwhelmed by, well, you know.

[Jet_Engine1]

[JetPotato]

People really need to go look at the numbers Gretzky put up. And how they stacked up against the next 9 guys.

Babe Ruth too.

Insane comparisons.

As for Jordan, he's literally still a BRAND that bears an image of his shadow. Brady is what... Uggs?

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

55 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Well, he popularized signature sneakers for teens around the world. That’s a given - there were air Jordans and then everything else. He also starred in Space Jam - which topped the box office when it was released (no idea how those numbers hold Up today)

He’s easily one of the biggest cultural icons in American sports history. I’ll give you Ali, but Jordan is right there with anyone else you want to give me.
 

At the start of the century, ESPN ranked him at the top of their “100 greatest athletes of the century” list - he beat out Babe Ruth (#2) and Ali (#3). They didn’t do this because of his lack of cultural impact - that I can assure you. 

I’m not sure what you are really looking for, but i’m honestly surprised by your take 

Here's what I'm getting at.  Cultural impact is behavior that significantly influences or impacts a society's norms, values, beliefs, practices, institutions, as well as the way they live, work, socialize, and act.  Jordan was purposely apolitical and non-controversial. He did not take any stands or express any position on any societal issues outside of basketball. So, yes - he was famous and people bought his sneakers and wore his jersey and watched him in silly movies so he impacted some aspect of how they lived. But unlike other athletes that waded into key issues of their times, he had very little impact on American society outside of basketball. He was a pop culture figure, but not a societal culture figure.  

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Here's what I'm getting at.  Cultural impact is behavior that significantly influences or impacts a society's norms, values, beliefs, practices, institutions, as well as the way they live, work, socialize, and act.  Jordan was purposely apolitical and non-controversial. He did not take any stands or express any position on any societal issues outside of basketball. So, yes - he was famous and people bought his sneakers and wore his jersey and watched him in silly movies so he impacted some aspect of how they lived. But unlike other athletes that waded into key issues of their times, he had very little impact on American society outside of basketball. He was a pop culture figure, but not a societal culture figure.  

Ok, fair. He wasn't political. 

I wouldn't define "cultural impact" strictly in terms of political impact, but I agree with your label for him - he was largely a pop culture figure. 

All I can say is that, when I was a kid, he was one of the biggest names on the planet and one of those names and faces that truly transcended sports. I'm not sure that there was a more recognizable athlete in the entire world during his reign (maybe Tyson?). 

[Lupz27]

6 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

Guys great no doubt about it. But he went to the bucs after the pats. A team that had almost everything in place except a QB. Winston threw for 30 tds and over 5k yards on that team without Gronk

Listen I hate the guy as much as anyone but he got a sh*t ton of guys to follow him there for cheap to win and they only came because he is there (mostly defense guys).