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I'm warming up to Hamilton. Did someone say he might move to LB?


HighPitch
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36 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

I don’t think Hamilton is Ed Reed.

More of a suped up Justin Simmons.

He can be a pivotal piece on the backend of the defense for a decade, but do you want to take him over one of the edgerushers or even an OL like Neal or Ekwonu at #4?

I like Hamilton but a potential 10 sack a year EDGE to pair with Lawson is still preferable and even though I’m mostly against going OL in the 1st round again, I’d probably take a dude like Ekwonu over Hamilton in that scenario.

100%.  My preference is pass rusher and I've been pretty vocal the OL doesnt need 1st round allocation as it was the strength of this team but if it's down to Ekwonu or Neal vs. Hamilton, give me the Tackles all day long.

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25 minutes ago, NYJets43 said:

The risk you take when you draft these type of guys is that they really need to be elite at their position for the pick to workout. 

Isaiah Simmons who I think is a decent comp to Hamilton is a good player, but isn’t a top 5 LB in the NFL. That’s what you are looking for when you draft that position in the top 10. 
 

 

The issue is with how weak this draft class is. In general I agree with you, but there are no sure fire studs here. 

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10 minutes ago, xJayce said:


From what I've seen, this year, we're expecting possibly no QBs in the top 5, and maybe 2 in the top 10 (when was the last time that happened!?). No WR or RB in the top 5, maybe 1 or 2 in the top 10. 

The two thinnest QB crops in the 1st round I can think of only had one QB taken and it was mid-round both times:

2013 - EJ Manuel at #16

2000 - Chad Pennington at #18

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53 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Ed Reed is one of my top 3 favorite Football players of all time.  I love that dude.  I remember literally celebrating because I didnt think there was a chance we'd pass on him and boom, Bryan Thomas w/ J. Abe and Shaun Ellis roster.  I dont see Hamilton anywhere near Reed, Reed was a 4-year starter, had 9 INT's and 2 TD's his senior year.  That's a generational talent, selected 24th overall. 

 

I remember the Browns picking number Eric Turner, the UCLA safety, number 2 overall. 

The issue I'm having is if Hutch, Thibs and Neal go in the top 3. If not Hamilton, who are you picking? Stingley, hell no. Karlaftis, hell no. The NC State tackle, maybe, but that is an OL in the first round 3 years in a row. 

It's just a mediocre draft in the top 10. 

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4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

The two thinnest QB crops in the 1st round I can think of only had one QB taken and it was mid-round both times:

2013 - EJ Manuel at #16

 

And the next QB was Geno at the top of round 2. Then not another one until Mike Glennon in the middle of round 3. 

Awful class.  

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2 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I remember the Browns picking number Eric Turner, the UCLA safety, number 2 overall. 

The issue I'm having is if Hutch, Thibs and Neal go in the top 3. If not Hamilton, who are you picking? Stingley, hell no. Karlaftis, hell no. The NC State tackle, maybe, but that is an OL in the first round 3 years in a row. 

It's just a mediocre draft in the top 10. 

Which is the answer to "How can the Jets NOT trade down?"

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7 minutes ago, nycdan said:

The two thinnest QB crops in the 1st round I can think of only had one QB taken and it was mid-round both times:

2013 - EJ Manuel at #16

2000 - Chad Pennington at #18

Spencer Rattler pooping the bed really putthe screws to us this year. If he had balled out, we'd be sitting in the cat bird seat. As it stands, we're the fourth guy in a three way. 

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13 minutes ago, xJayce said:

I think the challenge with simply evaluating the rank at which a player is taken is that this year, there appear to be no QBs or skill players in the top 5 range.

In past drafts, you'd expect something like 2-3 of QB / RB taken in the top 10, with an Edge, maybe a WR, maybe an OT to round out the top 5. We're not seeing that this year (at this point anyways). That pushes prospects to be picked earlier given the weaker talent. 

From what I've seen, this year, we're expecting possibly no QBs in the top 5, and maybe 2 in the top 10 (when was the last time that happened!?). No WR or RB in the top 5, maybe 1 or 2 in the top 10. 

Just taking a look at Walterfootball right now, they have two mock drafts going (Walter's and Charlie's). In Charlie's mock we have, in the top 10:

  • 5 defensive linemen
  • 3 offensive linemen
  • 1 CB
  • 1 WR

This feels like a very atypical draft. Safety at 4 is not necessarily too high a pick, it's that the lack of higher level talent at premium positions is pushing higher level talent at less important positions higher up the draftboards.

That being said, I do not believe safety should be the pick given how much the team needs help in other positions.

It's very early, the season isnt even over yet so there stands a lot to change between now and the draft.  I could see Kenny Pickett shooting up draft boards, if Matt Corral injury checks out, him too, so it's very hard to predict how the next 3 months play out especially before Free Agency starts.  That said, IMO there are at least 5 players worthy of the 4th overall pick as it stands today that all play premium positions that I would absolutely prioritize over safety: Thibs, Hutch, Neal, (maybe Ojabo), Ekwono and/or Andrew Booth/Derek Stingley - all top 10, all premium, all maximize value of the pick.

You also have to remember; they have 2 picks in the top of the 2nd.  Guys like Lewis Cine and Jaquan Brisker could be had, and I dont see them a huge fall off from Hamilton.

 

 

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No doubt Hamilton will be a good player from what I'm hearing but drafting him in the top 10 is exactly the type of move that got Macc fired.  Drafting BPA is always a good strategy but you have to weigh team need, scheme, position etc... with all of that.  Right now, looking at the Jets roster Hamilton is just too much of a luxury for me.

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7 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I remember the Browns picking number Eric Turner, the UCLA safety, number 2 overall. 

The issue I'm having is if Hutch, Thibs and Neal go in the top 3. If not Hamilton, who are you picking? Stingley, hell no. Karlaftis, hell no. The NC State tackle, maybe, but that is an OL in the first round 3 years in a row. 

It's just a mediocre draft in the top 10. 

It's too early to tell for sure but as I said above, I would basically prioritize any of the pass rushers who check the box, OT and CB over Safety.  I could argue Brisker and Cine will be just as good and could be had in the 2nd round.

 

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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Who said he's the best safety prospect in 20 years?  And if that's the case, who was this prospect 20 years ago?  Sean Taylor?  I've only watched a bit of ND and Hamilton definitely makes plays but I dont see anything that says he's better than Derwin James and Minkah Fitzpatrick who went 17 and 11, respectively.  Hell, I cant even think of a safety going top 5, like, ever.  Adams was 6th and a terrible pick.  Eric Ried is the only one that comes to mind, and he went 5th.

I think Eric Berry went third. 

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6 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

No doubt Hamilton will be a good player from what I'm hearing but drafting him in the top 10 is exactly the type of move that got Macc fired.  Drafting BPA is always a good strategy but you have to weigh team need, scheme, position etc... with all of that.  Right now, looking at the Jets roster Hamilton is just too much of a luxury for me.

Well Jets desperately need a safety and Saleh relies heavily on safety play in his cover 3 scheme, so Hamilton is an ideal target 

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The knock on the Jamal Adams pick is primarily that the Jets kept Hackenburg, picked Adams and passed over Mahomes and Watson.  There were not many picks other than those that the Jets should have picked other than Adams. 

At 4 Hamilton will be paid ~~$8mm/year over four years.  That is less than Marcus Maye last season.    If he can play a box safety/lb/playmaker position who both plays the run and covers TEs, etc., that would work for the Jets.  The Jets would pair him with another safety who plays single high, which could be Ashtyn next year, and saves the second round draft picks for TE, LB, G, WR, etc.   His fifth year option salary at S will also be relatively reasonable.  

The premier safety FAs will go for well over $10mm.   If the Jets really believe that Hamilton will be a difference maker, and neither of Hutch, Thib or Evan Neal are available at 4, picking Hamilton can be a solid move.  People are not questioning the Kyle Pitts TE pick at 4-in fact some have argued that the Jets should have tried to pick Pitts and keep Darnold.   If Hamilton can be an All Pro hybrid LB/S in his first year, it is justifiable.  The question is how much of an impact would Ekwonu or Karlaftis have in their first 2 years?  I think Hamilton has a bigger impact.  

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12 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

No doubt Hamilton will be a good player from what I'm hearing but drafting him in the top 10 is exactly the type of move that got Macc fired.  Drafting BPA is always a good strategy but you have to weigh team need, scheme, position etc... with all of that.  Right now, looking at the Jets roster Hamilton is just too much of a luxury for me.

Hamilton checks all of these boxes…

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The reason generational talents at safety and DT always seem to fall to us at 4/5/6/7 is because smart teams realize that no matter how generational they may be, it's always better to take the shot on the player at the premium positions. 

And yes, guys like Aaron Donald and Ed Reed are impact players at non premium positions, those teams didn't waste a top 5 pick on them. 

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Ask yourself this, the Jets need to win games next year and be competitive/in the mix after Halloween. Is a safety at 4 getting you to that point? No, it’s not.

If they can’t find a suitable pass rusher at 4 then the pick needs to be offense. Not a safety.

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19 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Hamilton checks all of these boxes…

It's a need but lower on the totem pole and def. a position you can fill in free agency.  Getting another O-lineman, WR, pass rusher, even LB to me, would be much more high on that list.  Especially when you factor in salary and the ability to have control of a top player at a premium position on a rookie contract.

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2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Ask yourself this, the Jets need to win games next year and be competitive/in the mix after Halloween. Is a safety at 4 getting you to that point? No, it’s not.

If they can’t find a suitable pass rusher at 4 then the pick needs to be offense. Not a safety.

So who? Give a name. There’s literally no offensive player that deserves to be the 4th overall pick unless you’re referring to an offensive lineman which is not exactly a pressing need 

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1 minute ago, Rhg1084 said:

So who? Give a name. There’s literally no offensive player that deserves to be the 4th overall pick unless you’re referring to an offensive lineman which is not exactly a pressing need 

I haven’t looked at the class enough to give you a name yet. Will there be a playmaker drafted in the first round that turns into a great player? I’m guessing yes. That’s why Douglas gets paid the big bucks. Anyone can draft chalk.

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Just now, Matt39 said:

I haven’t looked at the class enough to give you a name yet. Will there be a playmaker drafted in the first round that turns into a great player? I’m guessing yes. That’s why Douglas gets paid the big bucks. Anyone can draft chalk.

Jets aren’t drafting one of these WRs 4th overall.. go do some research on this draft it’s not looking to good. Hamilton is probably one of the best guys in the draft 

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2 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Jets aren’t drafting one of these WRs 4th overall.. go do some research on this draft it’s not looking to good. Hamilton is probably one of the best guys in the draft 

This is why the Jets don’t draft well. Giving in to groupthink to draft a safety at 4. When October rolls around and the Jets can’t score points we’ll all be bellyaching over the draft. The disconnect between game performances and the draft is palpable with Jets fans. Douglas isn’t saving his job by taking a safety. Find an edge who will get sacks or a player who scores touchdowns and draft them at 4 and 10. That’s how you start winning games. 

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Many on here are saying that a 6” 4, 220 lbs safety who can play all levels and cover the field from side to side is not generational…. 
 

👍

 

Okay? I bet these same people called Lawrence generational last year (and probably still do)

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45 minutes ago, varjet said:

The knock on the Jamal Adams pick is primarily that the Jets kept Hackenburg, picked Adams and passed over Mahomes and Watson.  There were not many picks other than those that the Jets should have picked other than Adams. 

 

In retrospect, due to nothing we could have known at the time, Adams turned out FAR better for us than Watson would have.  From that perspective, we were actually lucky.

Other than KC, you know who was really fortunate?  PIT.  They got TJ Watt at #30.  What does that say about NFL draft scouting?

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2 hours ago, HighPitch said:

I thought I read that somewhere......

Either way, I really don't know that much about him but started watching a lot of tape last night. First off he is 6 4 220lbs. I remember someone saying that he would be used at LB in Salehs defense. Now I dont know if this is all bs or what but the dude has a frame for a quick LB. Watching his tape, man this kid can tackle. I'm talking the kind of tackling where he just needs to touch your foot with one hand and you immediately go down type tackle. I also noticed he is VERY good at watching the ball, zeroing in on the carrier and bee lining it quick and putting him down. He also did a ton of up front play. Honestly, he looked like a LB to me half the time.

So yea, this dude is elite as advertised. He may be the best player in the draft, or one of lets say one of 5 of the best regardless of position.

But I really really want a big WR like London/Burks. 

So, being that these edge guys are all being questioned, I would NOT mind (id love to trade down but....) taking Hamilton at 4 and Burks/London at 10 and using our first second on a 2nd tier pass rusher like jermaine Johnson the kid from FSU. I mean if thibs is gone, and hutch and the rest are big ? marks then why not.

 

Thoughts?

I mentioned it as purely a guess in one of the draft threads. I just thought it fits with his system. He is bigger and might be faster than Sherwood and that other guy from some school down south who shall not be named lest it brings back the return of DWC.Lol

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23 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

It's a need but lower on the totem pole and def. a position you can fill in free agency.  Getting another O-lineman, WR, pass rusher, even LB to me, would be much more high on that list.  Especially when you factor in salary and the ability to have control of a top player at a premium position on a rookie contract.

You can say the same about ol and wr. They can easily be filled in fa. I’d say that safety is a bigger need than right guard right now. There are no solid starters on the entire team that you can rely on for next year and there are 2 safety positions on the field. Major issue right there 

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4 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Jets need good players over need.  Especially since they need everything 

So true.  With the 2020 draft turning out so badly, JD must nail his early picks this year, whatever the position.  

The guys being touted as the best prospect at their positions in many a year are Hamilton and Linderbaum.  If they are the real deal, then they should take them at 4 and 10 if available.  Try for an edge and playmaker (WR or TE) in the 2nd round.

Now, I'd really prefer an edge at 4 or a trade down.  My guess right now (before free agency) is that JD will go Edge and OT in the first round if he can't trade down.

 

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