I'm warming up to Hamilton. Did someone say he might move to LB?

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I'd love to hear someone's case as for why Zach Wilson is/was a better prospect than Kenny Pickett. 

Off platform and headbands.   Enough said.  

[varjet]

The Chiefs pay Mahomes, Chris Jones and Matthieu real money.

Will the Jets pay QW real money while paying a QB?  I don’t think so.

Did we know that Jamal Adams would not deserve that type of money in his second contract?   Many here did not think so, but Seattle paid him.  I think that was hubris.

If Kyle Hamilton is the player we think he could be, creating turnovers and shutting down WRs and TEs, maybe he is the type of player who gets a premium second contract.  

[Snell41]

I'd love to hear someone's case as for why Zach Wilson is/was a better prospect than Kenny Pickett. 

Mehh, I think it’s pretty well known that I’m particularly unimpressed by Wilson. Pickett doesn’t make it move for me either honestly. Not as strong of an arm and not as athletic (although on Zach’s puny frame his athleticism honestly only serves to get him killed in the NFL so I don’t really give that much weight when viewing Zach’s potential). That said Pickett is already heavily being hyped to go 20th overall to PIT. If he has a good combine/pro day he’ll skyrocket to the top 10.


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[doitny]

13 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

They will pay them if the players end up being legit all pros.

Also they did pay Marcus Maye, when you are franchised and you are not a great player you are' getting paid.'

im not sure he would.

at 10.6 mil Maye was the 11th highest. out of the 10 in front of him only 4 made the playoffs and 2 are left.

most of the best teams dont pay alot for their safeties. its just seems like you can get good enough safeties under 10 mil.

crazy fact: Buffalo has 2 safeties (Hyde 9.6m, Poyer 9.7m) that make 1.8mil more than Jamal Adams ( 17.5m )

[Peace Frog]

How about, instead of picking a Safety to move to LB, we just reach a few spot and pick an actual--and the best--ILB in the draft in Dean.

I'm not taking a S at 4.  I'm just not--do not care that some gurus have him rated a few picks ahead of Dean.

If there is no Edge and we go defense, take a REAL LB and not a Safety.

[jamesr]

4 hours ago, Ghost420 said:

If Douglas take a saftey at 4 he won't the GM in 2023. 

It's all about performance. Take a safety who racks up tackles, but little else ... meh. Take a safety who racks up tackles, gets 6 INTs, a few FF, multiple PBUs and is a "leader of men" (   j/k)? No issues there at all. 

What about if he takes an Edge player that barely gets any sacks his rookie year in a "situational" role?

[JustInFudge]

40 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

Mehh, I think it’s pretty well known that I’m particularly unimpressed by Wilson. Pickett doesn’t make it move for me either honestly. Not as strong of an arm and not as athletic (although on Zach’s puny frame his athleticism honestly only serves to get him killed in the NFL so I don’t really give that much weight when viewing Zach’s potential). That said Pickett is already heavily being hyped to go 20th overall to PIT. If he has a good combine/pro day he’ll skyrocket to the top 10.


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Interesting.  I obviously didnt think Wilson was worthy of the #2 overall selection and I'm not saying Pickett is, but I like him significantly better as a prospect than Zach Wilson.  From footwork, decision making athleticism, feel for the pocket, ball placement, ability to escape and take off (most QB's break their leg attempting that fake slide), ability to throw on the run, off platform!!!!!!!!!!, 5th year senior with 4 years of starting experience. height, frame, big game pedigree, big school competition....you name it.  Maybe the ball comes out faster with Zach but Pickett has plenty of arm strength and can get it out in a hurry if he needs too.  Idk - I see across between Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert.  Who knows how it all plays out but if Wilson and Pickett were in the same draft, there is no way I would take Wilson over Pickett. 

 

 

[Bungaman]

17 hours ago, Mogglez said:

EDGE, OL, WR, in that order.  Trade down from one of the picks, if possible.  If not?  Use the other pick so that you address 2/3 from the aforementioned positions. 

Give me edge, WR and then TE. Leave OL for the fourth pick.

[JustInFudge]

32 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

How about, instead of picking a Safety to move to LB, we just reach a few spot and pick an actual--and the best--ILB in the draft in Dean.

I'm not taking a S at 4.  I'm just not--do not care that some gurus have him rated a few picks ahead of Dean.

If there is no Edge and we go defense, take a REAL LB and not a Safety.

I dont know man, Devin Lloyd is a beast. 

[Peace Frog]

13 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Pickett i- I see across between Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert.  

 

Holee hyperbolic over-exageration to push a narrative--if this is true--28 teams are trading up to Number 1. 

13 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

  Who knows how it all plays out but if Wilson and [Insert any QB other than Zack Wislon] were in the same draft, there is no way I would take Wilson over [Insert QB]. 

Fixed your post.  

[Peace Frog]

8 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I dont know man, Devin Lloyd is a beast. 

PAC 12 beast v SEC beast?

Idk.  

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Holee hyperbolic over-exageration to push a narrative--if this is true--28 teams are trading up to Number 1. 

Fixed your post.  

I'm sorry I made a comparison that you didnt like.

[Copernicus]

 

1 hour ago, varjet said:

I think this is going to get harder as Douglas fleeces teams.

If you were Seattle or Carolina, would you trade with JD again?

I guess not. Good point ?

[JohnnyLV]

6 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I can understand that worry but I dont really see anyone mocking Ojabo top 10.  That was my hot take based on how he tests.  The point I was trying to make is after the top 4 are off the board, I think everyone is in the reach category so why not reach for a premium position freak-a-zoid. 

Personally, I think this is all for nothing because I dont see the coaching staff prioritizing the secondary that high for either position.  That said, I dont think the Seattle references are relevant.  Saleh wasnt even on the coaching staff when they took Earl Thomas 14th overall (fyi, he had 8 INT's his last year in college, Hamilton did have 8 in his career).  He arrived the following season (as defensive quality control) and what did they do in the draft?  OL early and 3 DB's in a row in the 5th/6th rounds.  

As much as I dont love the idea of OL early, I'm good with a T for the reasons you've stated.  It's not my preference but I could see scenarios where its the best pick.

 

It's so super early and so many players will move up and down before April but it does look like the Jets could find themselves in a very non-optimal position at 4 where no choice is fantastic. Even though I am not as big of a fan of EDGE as others I think the best scenario might be if Hutch or Thib fall but that seems unlikely, so do you go 3rd consecutive OL? reach for 3rd EDGE, draft a safety? draft a corner? If there was a Chase Young type at the top everything would be so much easier.

Where do you stand on Zach now?

 

[Copernicus]

1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

 

My only concern is there won’t be a QB that a team will give up a massive haul to move up for. It has to be a team that’s close to us already and just wants to move up a couple spots. But there will definitely be a QB prospect taken top 5 that will either be in play for us to trade out or push a prospect down for us.


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Yes, I would agree but would also add that last year at this time Zach Wilson was on no ones radar. It was Trevor and a severe drop off to Fields. Trey Lance hadn't played football in like forever and we know the rest when the draft day trade happened with a the 49ers who gave a boatload to move up team. 

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

PAC 12 beast v SEC beast?

Idk.  

I'm sure you'd agree Bobby Wagner has had a great career.  Do you know where he played Football?  Same state, smaller school.

I dont think it matters for a LB'er,.  Jordyn Brooks led the league in tackles, played at Texas Tech, in a conference literally known for not playing defense.  Foysesade Oluokon, 4th in the NFL in tackles, played at Yale.

 

[Peace Frog]

4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I'm sorry I made a comparison that you didnt like.

Oh no, it's not that I don't like it.

It's ludicrous.

Kenny Pickett a cross between a 6-6 235 LB rocket armed monster and the widely acknowledge best young QB in the game?

Yeah, sounds about right.  Lol.  

That sounds as legit as saying Zack is a cross between Rogers and Mahomes (which was just as ludicrous).  

If your comparison is true, Pickett should go number 1.  If not--we gladly trade out of 4 for a boatload of picks.  

I like it.

[football guy]

FWIW, I love Kyle Hamilton the prospect but do not think the Jets will take him at #4. I think they would be reluctant to take any DB at #4 for that matter (Sauce Gardner and Derek Stingley included). I wouldn't say its impossible, but a lot hinges on what happens prior to the draft. 

Otherwise, I think its fairly easy to narrow down the Jets likely options at #4

• DE Hutchinson 
• DE Thibodeaux
• OL Neal 
• OL Ekwonu
• WR Wilson 

A lot of people began mocking Wilson to #10 of late, but I think there's a real chance they would take him at #4 if they don't address WR prior to the draft. There's a lot of parity among the top 8 or 9 players, so if you think a guy is worth it at 10 there's a good chance that player will have a very similar grade to the guys available at #4. 

 

A lot will be unpacked over the next few weeks. My early suspicion is they will take a first-round OL for the 3rd year in a row. I don't think they'll be as high on Thibodeaux as the "draftnik" community is, and I wouldn't be shocked if they took one of the OL over him. I do think Hutchinson is or will be their top player in this draft. 

[Peace Frog]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I'm sure you'd agree Bobby Wagner has had a great career.  Do you know where he played Football?  Same state, smaller school.

I dont think it matters for a LB'er,.  Jordyn Brooks led the league in tackles, played at Texas Tech, in a conference literally known for not playing defense.  Foysesade Oluokon, 4th in the NFL in tackles, played at Yale.

 

If the Jets have Lloyd rated higher than Dean--then I'm taking Lloyd over Hamilton.

My point wasn't Dean over Hamilton--it was a top notch LB over a safety when they are all projected to go top 10ish.  "Reaching" a few spots (which isn't really a reach given I've seen draft experts projecting Hamilton to go as low as 10) is not really a reach given the relative value of the positions.

I just like Dean's violence, leadership and toughness.  Not as familiar with Lloyd. 

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

It's so super early and so many players will move up and down before April but it does look like the Jets could find themselves in a very non-optimal position at 4 where no choice is fantastic. Even though I am not as big of a fan of EDGE as others I think the best scenario might be if Hutch or Thib fall but that seems unlikely, so do you go 3rd consecutive OL? reach for 3rd EDGE, draft a safety? draft a corner? If there was a Chase Young type at the top everything would be so much easier.

Where do you stand on Zach now?

 

It is very early.  Those were the first words I typed in thread.   So much will change from now till then.

As I've said, IMO the 3 elite prospects in this draft are Hutch, Thibs and Neal and it would be hard to pass on any, but I also think unless a QB starts to rise, that's the only way the phone rings as well.  So, if they are all gone, yes, I would consider reaching for edge, CB or T over taking a limited, lanky, box safety, with an injury history.

Not sure how where I stand on Zach is relevant to the conversation but I'm firmly in the, I have no clue who he becomes but at least I dont think he's an utter disaster who has no chance anymore, so that's encouraging. 

 

[Peace Frog]

3 minutes ago, football guy said:

There's a lot of parity among the top 8 or 9 players, so if you think a guy is worth it at 10 there's a good chance that player will have a very similar grade to the guys available at #4. 

 

Exactly. Nobody knows what the separation is between 4, 5, 6 and 10-12.  The difference is so small, this year.

I cannot take a safety at 4 if there are players relatively equally graded at 10.  

It's not a "reach".

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Oh no, it's not that I don't like it.

It's ludicrous.

Kenny Pickett a cross between a 6-6 235 LB rocket armed monster and the widely acknowledge best young QB in the game?

Yeah, sounds about right.  Lol.  

That sounds as legit as saying Zack is a cross between Rogers and Mahomes (which was just as ludicrous).  

If your comparison is true, Pickett should go number 1.  If not--we gladly trade out of 4 for a boatload of picks.  

I like it.

lmfao, you crack me up sometimes with your approach to a simple discussion.  So righteous even when you're being a silly goose.

The Jags just took a generational QB #1 overall just last year, why would they take another QB#1 overall?  

Oh, and this might be news to you but Herbert, Mahomes and Rodgers, didnt go #1 overall.  In fact, other QB's were taken before them.

And yes, I think it's very possible 4 months from now there could be suitor for Pickett at #4.  I've made that point numerous times in this thread.  

Oh, and I'm elite at this sh*t, so be careful. 

[JustInFudge]

11 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

If the Jets have Lloyd rated higher than Dean--then I'm taking Lloyd over Hamilton.

My point wasn't Dean over Hamilton--it was a top notch LB over a safety when they are all projected to go top 10ish.  "Reaching" a few spots (which isn't really a reach given I've seen draft experts projecting Hamilton to go as low as 10) is not really a reach given the relative value of the positions.

I just like Dean's violence, leadership and toughness.  Not as familiar with Lloyd. 

That's fair.  I think Simmons and Parsons have shown there is value in taking an ILB early, which is something I'd typically avoid.   Not really passionate about Dean or Lloyd, I was just really pointing out I think there is debate who is "better".

 

[Peace Frog]

5 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

lmfao, you crack me up sometimes with your approach to a simple discussion.  So righteous even when you're being a silly goose.

The Jags just took a generational QB #1 overall just last year, why would they take another QB#1 overall?  

Oh, and this might be news to you but Herbert, Mahomes and Rodgers, didnt go #1 overall.  In fact, other QB's were taken before them.

And yes, I think it's very possible 4 months from now there could be suitor for Pickett at #4.  I've made that point numerous times in this thread.  

Oh, and I'm elite at this sh*t, so be careful. 

If you read what I said, if Pickett is a TRULY cross between Herbert and Burrow as you posit--28 teams would TRADE UP to number 1. Of course the Jags aren't taking him.

And their draft position at this point is irrelevant.  If you knew then what you know now--Herbert, Mahomes, Rogers are far and away the number 1 picks in their respective draft classes.

Again, it's about the projection on Pickett.

And yes you are "elite" at this in your own mind but your reasoning is clouded by something I can't put my finger on (well, I can but we all know what it is). It was evident what the point was you were trying to make about Pickett in the first post I quoted of yours.

 

[Peace Frog]

6 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

That's fair.  I think Simmons and Parsons have shown there is value in taking an ILB early, which is something I'd typically avoid.   Not really passionate about Dean or Lloyd, I was just really pointing out I think there is debate who is "better".

 

Yeah, I have no idea either and to be frank, I only saw dean play a few times this year and he just looked so dominant, violent--a true character changer on the defensive side of the ball.  

[JustInFudge]

12 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

If you read what I said, if Pickett is a TRULY cross between Herbert and Burrow as you posit--28 teams would TRADE UP to number 1. Of course the Jags aren't taking him.

And their draft position at this point is irrelevant.  If you knew then what you know now--Herbert, Mahomes, Rogers are far and away the number 1 picks in their respective draft classes.

Again, it's about the projection on Pickett.

And yes you are "elite" at this in your own mind but your reasoning is clouded by something I can't put my finger on (well, I can but we all know what it is). It was evident what the point was you were trying to make about Pickett in the first post I quoted of yours.

 

Well, sweetheart, I said he was a cross between 2 players.  Never did I say he was as good or better.  A cross between 2 players, doesnt make them one or the other, in fact my next words were "who knows how this turns out" - you took and ran with it like a nincompoop and made it seem that I said he was a good as or better than those 2, but that never happened.  You took it there.  The direct comparison I made was to Zach Wilson.    

And I'm elite at this sh*t because I'm elite at this sh*t.  The receipts are out there.  

 

[JohnnyLV]

37 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

It is very early.  Those were the first words I typed in thread.   So much will change from now till then.

As I've said, IMO the 3 elite prospects in this draft are Hutch, Thibs and Neal and it would be hard to pass on any, but I also think unless a QB starts to rise, that's the only way the phone rings as well.  So, if they are all gone, yes, I would consider reaching for edge, CB or T over taking a limited, lanky, box safety, with an injury history.

Not sure how where I stand on Zach is relevant to the conversation but I'm firmly in the, I have no clue who he becomes but at least I dont think he's an utter disaster who has no chance anymore, so that's encouraging. 

 

I was just curious. You are the reasoned Zach doubter so value your opinion. I am pretty optimistic but also feel it could go either way. He still needs to improve a lot.

[Peace Frog]

17 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Well, sweetheart, I said he was a cross between 2 players.  Never did I say he was as good or better.  A cross between 2 players, doesnt make them one or the other, in fact my next words were "who knows how this turns out" - you took and ran with it like a nincompoop and made it seem that I said he was a good as or better than those 2, but that never happened.  You took it there.  The direct comparison I made was to Zach Wilson.    

And I'm elite at this sh*t because I'm elite at this sh*t.  The receipts are out there.  

 

So comparing him to elite 2 players and the absolute best young QBs in the league but then backtracking and saying "I didn't say he was as good as or better" gets you off the hook for a ludicrous comparison?

Hahahaaa ok.

If you had said I look at him as a cross between Mitch Trubisky and Derek Carr, or Kirk Cousins and Jared Goff I wouldn't blink.

Saying a player is a cross between two players is a direct comparison to the 2.  ACTUALLY a CROSS of the two.  

Sorry sweetie, you said it, not me.  

Edit: The sweetie ad hominem is a nice touch.  Throws folks off the ludicrous trail.  

Again, it would be like me saying Zach is "a cross between Rogers and Mahomes" but I'm not saying as good as or better lol.   

I may not be as elite as you think you are about QB comparisons but I'm elite as sh*t at reason and logic.  The degrees are out there.  

[JustInFudge]

12 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

So comparing him to elite 2 players and the absolute best young QBs in the league but then backtracking and saying "I didn't say he was as good as or better" gets you off the hook for a ludicrous comparison?

Hahahaaa ok.

If you had said I look at him as a cross between Mitch Trubisky and Derek Carr, or Kirk Cousins and Jared Goff I wouldn't blink.

Saying a player is a cross between two players is a direct comparison to the 2.  ACTUALLY a CROSS of the two.  

Sorry sweetie, you said it, not me.  

Edit: The sweetie ad hominem is a nice touch.  Throws folks off the ludicrous trail.  

Again, it would be like me saying Zach is "a cross between Rogers and Mahomes" but I'm not saying as good as or better lol.   

I may not be as elite as you think you are about QB comparisons but I'm elite as sh*t at reason and logic.  The degrees are out there.  

Fair enough, solid logical response.  All I can say in response is, I think Kenny Pickett is a cross between Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert, just maybe not as good as both...but similar traits if you combined them into 1 human.

❤️

 

[Peace Frog]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

Fair enough, solid logical response.  All I can say in response is, I think Kenny Pickett is a cross between Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert, just maybe not as good as both...but similar traits if you combined them into 1 human.

❤️

 

I think you could say he has Burrow's toughness, leadership and "moxie"--I'll give you that but not the arm talent or accuracy.  Be like saying Trubisky compares to Burrow just maybe not as good.  

I don't see anything in Pickett that reminds me of Herbert--he's 6-6 235 with a massive arm.  I can't mention the two in the same sentence. 

Everyone agrees Pickett has a decent arm but not particurlarly strong and he's not nearly the physicl specimen of Herbert.

I've seen comparisons to Heineke and Carr.  I think those are fairer comparisons.   

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Fair enough, solid logical response.  All I can say in response is, I think Kenny Pickett is a cross between Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert, just maybe not as good as both...but similar traits if you combined them into 1 human.

❤️

 

He’d have the smallest hands at the position. That’s going to be an issue for him.

[Snell41]

Interesting.  I obviously didnt think Wilson was worthy of the #2 overall selection and I'm not saying Pickett is, but I like him significantly better as a prospect than Zach Wilson.  From footwork, decision making athleticism, feel for the pocket, ball placement, ability to escape and take off (most QB's break their leg attempting that fake slide), ability to throw on the run, off platform!!!!!!!!!!, 5th year senior with 4 years of starting experience. height, frame, big game pedigree, big school competition....you name it.  Maybe the ball comes out faster with Zach but Pickett has plenty of arm strength and can get it out in a hurry if he needs too.  Idk - I see across between Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert.  Who knows how it all plays out but if Wilson and Pickett were in the same draft, there is no way I would take Wilson over Pickett. 
 
 

Ironically there’s another thread for a mock that has Pickett at 11 already, so my suspicion is unless he just completely sh*ts the bed at the combine/pro day then he’s def gonna be a top 5 pick. Hou may just flat out take him at 3. If they don’t then the Giants likely will, which puts us in good position to get some good trade offers. As for him as a prospect I just am very apprehensive about one year wonder QB’s that don’t have something truly magnificent about their game. Either elite athleticism or an absolutely incredible football mind. Otherwise to me it’s a sit and learn type of prospect, which I wouldn’t draft unless I had someone for him to sit and learn behind.


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[#27TheDominator]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:55 AM, BurntDice said:

How do these correlate? The team is baron at safety which is the complete opposite of the dt fiasco  

Interesting choice of spelling cause Mark Barron went 7th overall and I don't think the Bucs were too happy about it.  

[Peace Frog]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

He’d have the smallest hands at the position. That’s going to be an issue for him.

Just like Burrow and Herbert.  

Whut.

[Peace Frog]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

He’d have the smallest hands at the position. That’s going to be an issue for him.

Not that I'd compare QBs but Pickett has 8-1/4 inch hands.  

Burrow 9 inches, Herbert 10 inches.

Zach 9-1/2 inches.  

But I'm not comparing them, mind you.