Where does Quinnen Williams rank among NFL defensive tackles?

[LIJetsFan]

We crunch the numbers to deduce exactly where New York Jets star Quinnen Williams ranks among all NFL defensive tackles.

By  Michael Nania  01/19/2022

Quinnen Williams’ true ranking among NFL defensive tackles makes things interesting for the New York Jets

Quinnen Williams is a polarizing player among New York Jets fans. Some see him as a bona fide star at the defensive tackle position. Others see him as a merely decent player who is a disappointment relative to his status as a top-three draft pick.

Where does Williams actually rank among all defensive tackles in the NFL?

Let’s dive into Williams’ production in the 2021 season and see where he stacked up at his position.

Quinnen Williams’ overall 2021 production

One metric that serves as a good starting point when attempting to rank a player at his position is his overall grade at Pro Football Focus. It’s a subjective metric (based on the grading of a player’s performance on every snap), so it is hardly an end-all-be-all, but it’s worth taking into account as at least one piece of the puzzle when estimating a player’s impact.

Williams earned an overall grade of 64.4 at PFF this season. That placed him 37th out of the 89 interior defensive linemen (IDL) who played at least 400 defensive snaps.

That makes him a top-half player, but Williams is capable of much more than that.

Fortunately, Williams’ overall PFF grade is his worst metric out of any that we will see in this study. He ranks far more favorably in every other category we will look at.

Next up, we will look at where Williams ranks at his position when it comes to his raw playmaking production. Quite simply, how many tangible, trackable plays does he make relative to his peers?

To estimate the overall playmaking impact of every IDL, I combined each player’s totals in the following three categories: pressures, stops, and pass breakups. We’ll call this cumulative stat “impact plays”.

A player’s pressure total tells us about his pass-rushing impact. Pressure totals are comprised of sacks, quarterback hits, and quarterback hurries.

A player’ stop total tells us about his ability to find the ball and finish crucial tackles. Stops are any tackles on plays that hold the offense to a poor result. They can happen on either run or pass plays. The stat also includes sacks, which are also counted as pressures, so for the purpose of this study, I subtracted each player’s sack total from their stop total to avoid double-counting sacks. Thus, the stat is mostly comprised of stops against the run.

Pass breakups are rare for IDL, but they are certainly impactful plays, so they are worth including here. They make up a very small portion of this stat, though – pressures and stops make up the majority of the pie.

Williams had 34 pressures, 35 stops, and three pass breakups in 2021. Subtract his seven sacks (he officially had 6.0, but two were half-sacks, so he contributed to 7 total) to avoid double-counting them, and we come to a final mark of 65 impact plays for Williams.

That number ranked as the 17th-best total of impact plays among IDL.

To account for injuries and measure all players on the same plane, it’s fair to look at things on a per-game basis rather than a total volume basis.

Williams missed two games in 2021, making 15 appearances, so he averaged 4.3 impact plays per game. That ranked 12th at his position among qualifiers.

Here are the top-15 IDL of 2021 when it comes to impact plays per game (among 89 players with 400+ snaps played):

Aaron Donald, LAR (7.3)

Cameron Heyward, PIT (6.1)

Jeffery Simmons, TEN (5.8)

Chris Jones, KC (5.6)

Kenny Clark, GB (5.6)

Javon Hargrave, PHI (5.4)

Jonathan Allen, WAS (5.2)

Daron Payne, WAS (4.8)

Dexter Lawrence, NYG (4.6)

Arik Armstead, SF (4.5)

Leonard Williams, NYG (4.5)

Quinnen Williams, NYJ (4.3)

Christian Wilkins, MIA (4.3)

Christian Barmore, NE (4.3)

Roy Robertson-Harris, JAX (4.2)

Williams ranked sixth among IDL with 2.3 stops per game and 25th with 2.3 pressures per game. He was 10th in total stops (35) and 28th in total pressures (34).

Quinnen Williams’ per-snap 2021 production

If you want to get even more specific than per-game production, we can look at things on a per-snap basis. That way, every IDL from the league’s most heavily-used workhorses (Aaron Donald and Cameron Heyward) to the rotational players (like Foley Fatukasi) can be compared fairly.

Let’s first look at Williams’ specific performance in the passing game and the run game before moving on to his overall per-snap rankings.

As a pass rusher, Williams created 34 pressures (28th) while rushing the passer on 361 snaps (42nd). That gives him a pressure rate of 9.4%, which ranked 21st out of 89 qualifiers.

Williams picked up 25 stops against the run (17th) while playing 249 snaps against the run (46th). That gives him a run-stop rate of 10.0%, ranking 13th out of 89.

Now, let’s look at Williams’ overall production on a per-play level.

Williams produced 65 impact plays (17th) while ranking 48th in defensive snaps with 613. This means he produced an impact play once every 9.4 snaps on average. That mark ranked 12th out of 89 qualifiers.

Here are the top-15 IDL of 2021 when it comes to making impact plays on a per-snap basis, sorted by snaps per impact play (among 89 players with 400+ snaps played):

Chris Jones, KC (8.1)

Christian Barmore, NE (8.2)

Zach Sieler, MIA (8.2)

Aaron Donald, LAR (8.4)

Javon Hargrave, PHI (8.5)

Jonathan Allen, WAS (8.7)

Kenny Clark, GB (8.8)

Cameron Heyward, PIT (9.2)

Roy Robertson-Harris, JAX (9.3)

Ed Oliver, BUF (9.3)

Jeffery Simmons, TEN (9.4)

Quinnen Williams, NYJ (9.4)

Vita Vea, TB (9.7)

D.J. Jones, SF (9.8)

David Onyemata, NO (10.0)

So, where did Quinnen Williams rank in 2021?

Taking all of these metrics into account, I think it’s fair to say that Williams ranked somewhere in the top 12-15 range among IDL.

It’s tough to make an argument that Williams was a top-10 guy. Even when you adjust things to a per-game and a per-snap level, the evidence simply isn’t there.

However, it’s also hard to argue that Williams wasn’t a top-15 guy. At the absolute worst, there is no way to say he was not top-20.

Considering that we’re comparing against nearly 90 other players, a top-15 ranking would still make Williams a very good player – just not quite the all-world player that he has shown he is capable of being.

So, Williams had a strong year even if it fell short of expectations, but it was disappointing for this reason: It’s not as if we’re still hoping to one day see Williams become a top-5 player at his position. Williams already was a top-5 player at his position in 2020.

The 2021 season was a decline for him.

In 2020, Quinnen Williams was a star

Williams’ 2021 season was supposed to be his leap forward from “great” to “dominant”, but instead, it was a sizable step backward compared to an outstanding 2020 season.

In many of the metrics we looked at above, Williams was already a top 5-10 player at his position in 2020.

Here is a comparison of Williams’ performance over the last two seasons in a few of the metrics we’ve studied:

Overall PFF grade: 81.4 in 2020 (10th), 64.4 in 2021 (37th)

Impact plays per game: 5.5 in 2020 (4th), 4.3 in 2021 (12th)

Snaps per impact play: 8.2 in 2020 (2nd), 9.4 in 2021 (12th)

Williams had 72 impact plays in 2020, eight more than he had in 2021 despite playing two fewer games and 26 fewer defensive snaps.

When it came to impact plays per game, Williams’ mark of 5.5 trailed only Cameron Heyward (5.9), Stephon Tuitt (6.3), and Aaron Donald (7.1). On a per-play basis, Williams’ average of 8.2 snaps per impact play trailed only Donald (7.7) among qualified IDL.

Yes, Williams was that good in his second year.

Williams experienced significant dips in both phases of the game. Check out his declines as a pass rusher (pressures per game, pressure rate) and run stopper (run stops per game, run-stop rate):

Pressures per game: 3.0 in 2020 (12th), 2.3 in 2021 (25th)

Pressure rate: 10.3% in 2020 (13th), 9.4% in 2021 (21st)

Run stops per game: 2.2 in 2020 (1st), 1.7 in 2021 (15th)

Run-stop rate: 13.6% in 2020 (2nd), 10.0% in 2021 (14th)

Quinnen Williams must establish consistency to earn a lucrative contract

We are rapidly approaching the point where contract negotiations will begin between Williams and the Jets. New York must make a decision on Williams’ fifth-year option for the 2023 season by May 3 of this year, which should be a no-brainer to accept. Once that becomes official, Williams’ future will be a constant topic of discussion.

For New York to make an informed decision on how to handle negotiations with Williams, the team needs to know exactly what caliber of a player they are dealing with.

Right now, it is hard to definitively say where Williams stacks up at his position. He’s been so hot-and-cold that it is tough to deduce what the Jets would be paying for.

If Williams is the guy that his 2020 numbers say he is, then the Jets should feel comfortable paying just about whatever it takes to keep him around long-term.

But if Williams is the guy that his 2021 numbers say he is, would the Jets really be getting their money’s worth on a deal that would likely cost them north of $70 million?

Making matters even more difficult is the fact that Williams is so erratic in-season. Not only are his 2020 and 2021 numbers quite different, but he experienced drastic production changes within each of those two campaigns – especially in the passing game.

Six games into the 2020 season, Williams still hadn’t found his groove as a pass rusher yet. He was averaging 1.3 pressures per game on a 5.4% pressure rate, even posting two zero-pressure games.

After that, Williams became a monster, averaging 4.4 pressures per game over his last seven games. His pressure rate leaped to 13.4%.

Williams carried over that momentum into the start of the 2021 season. Through six games, he was flying high, racking up 20 pressures as he ranked second among IDL in pressure rate (12.7%) and seventh in pressures per game (3.3).

A steep decline followed. Williams collected only 14 pressures over the next nine games, averaging 1.6 pressures per game on a 6.9% pressure rate.

Williams has been fairly steady in the run game, but the volatility of his pass-rushing performance is incredible.

For a 13-game run from mid-2020 to mid-2021, Williams was getting after the quarterback like prime Fletcher Cox. Yet, over a 15-game sample that includes early-2020 and late-2021, he was producing at a mediocre level that could be matched by a replacement-level player.

Williams himself acknowledged this phenomenon in his final press conference to close the 2021 season.

“I’m not near where I want to be, when it come down to the production or the player I want to be,” Williams said. “I have games where I make big plays, and different stuff like that, and I have games where I just do my job and [I’m] an above-average defensive tackle in the league.

“But I got to be able to be a person where I can dominate and take over football games; such as like Aaron Donald, Fletcher Cox, and those guys; on that elite level where they can take over football games. I feel like I have that ability also and I got to tap into a new level this offseason to become that player I know I can be and the organization needs me to be.”

The Jets need Williams to have a consistent season in 2022 to make their contract decision easier. Whether that means he fulfills his potential as a top-5 star or he settles in as a solid top-20 player, the Jets just need Williams to provide a clear definition of who he is.

If Williams’ roller-coaster tendencies continue, Joe Douglas and the Jets will be faced with an incredibly difficult decision to make – one that could either pay tremendous dividends or blow up in their faces.

[Dunnie]

Very nice analysis ...

Q aint no Donald not even close ... so he should not be considered for the same salary stratosphere until he is.

He has the physical tools i think ... the relentless effort on every play is missing.

.... Richard Todd, Ken OBrien, Chad Pennington, Mark Sanchez, Genope, Sam Darnold ...

[BurnleyJet]

That tells me he should be on the block.

I agree he doesn’t pass the eye test for an Elite player, and the stats back it up.

[slimjasi]

He had his moments this year, but he didn't finish the season as strongly as I had hoped

[UntouchableCrew]

Those numbers/ranking feel about right sadly. Good, above average player who will never sniff his 3rd overall draft slot.

Disappointing result for those of us who thought he might break out this year in Saleh's scheme.

[Joe W. Namath]

Slightly above a JAG.

[ChewyandtheJets]

It is truly astonishing when you think about all the top 3, top 6 overall draft picks we have made without hitting on a single keeper.  I think if you just pooled together top 10 lists every year, blindfolded our GMs, and threw a dart we would have a much better success rate than what we have after “careful and thorough analysis” by our FO and “development” by our coaches.  Yuck??

[Fantasy Island]

He is what he is, a Mac pick.

[The Crusher]

7 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

He is what he is, a Mac pick.

I guess. Just seems like another underperforming piece of an underperforming defense. 

[Stark]

Id trade him for top value... last year with the 'Watson Saga' writers were saying his value would be equal to a first rd pick... so if that were offered.... later Q.

[GreenFish]

Very nice analysis. He’s an above average player but not elite.

This is why we shouldn't draft DTs and S in the top 15 picks. Having a DT who ranks 12-15 at his position is fantastic. But we drafted him 3rd overall.

It’s hard for these cant miss S and DTs to justify those high draft picks. 

[whodeawhodat]

gotta figure having our #1 pass rusher missing the year hurt him too as he was most likely focused. I like him, not sure how much we need to pay him. He has the ability to blow up any play imo

[JTJet]

That is a long ass post to just say he is underperforming. 

[HighPitch]

QW is NOT elite. The stats in this case back up my view that he is a slightly better than average player. In essence, a JAG with a huge thick penis

[HighPitch]

And if he has a great year, he will be the type to get paid and disappear again. Be careful with this kid.

[Sperm Edwards]

Seriously? This is yet another example of over-inferring things from stats, in this case by willfully ignoring the scheme, or even batting an eye at the way his pass rushing cut in half in the 2nd half of the season.

• The pressures stats above are heavily skewed in his favor as a built-in advantage, since every IDL isn't set up to be in a gap-shooting opportunity. He's not starting on 3rd base, but he's at least starting on 1st with a huge lead that the pitcher won't challenge.
• Probably the same goes for stops, since his job is more to disengage and run between iOLmen to make the play himself, rather than engage & occupy them man-to-man to instead allow LBs and/or safeties to run up to make the tackles in the box (if not at or just-past the LOS outright).
• e.g. how many 3-4 NTs (or dedicated space-occupiers even in 4-man fronts) are counted in these 89 IDL players? For a starting, gap-shooting DT to rank above all of them them should be shooting fish in a barrel because he's counting non-competitors.
• How many games along the way was he really taking over? I mean stops and pressures, not stops or pressures. Was he getting both every game, or was it just one at the expense of the other?

If I compared a RB's yards to a FB's yards,and counted a ball-carrying back so much higher by also counting him above blocking FBs in terms of yardage & TDs, I'd be rightly laughed at because their jobs are totally different in practice even if I'm able to loosely able to apply the "RB" label them all.

So this unserious "analysis" is grading Q on a major curve by paring through stats to find some way to make things look rosier, without at all seeking an equal playing-field analysis to see how he truly ranks among similar-task IDLs (as PFF at least seeks to do overall, even if highly flawed in practice). He's only looking for stats that paint a picture of him favorably, throwing out or ignoring any/all stats and data that don't do so, as though they are nonexistent. 

Williams has all the talent in the world, but given his hyped ceiling, the initial investment in him, the windfall of Ravens picks turned down for him, and the likely upcoming major reinvestment in him, he's been a relative letdown.

I know Q already publicly bragged about what he's going to do next year, and absolutely getting a legit edge rusher or two on the field with him will help a lot, as should improvements in coverage that we all want. Anyway I hope we see it, because it's a lot easier to extend a current elite player than it is to find a new one. 

[Bugg]

So to recap: Coffee Boy drafted one Williams guy, also wearing # 92, almost identical size. for the same exact position and role, to replace the other. Both decent but neither is Donald or Heyward. And did so despite the New York Jets, at the time of each pick, had no f____in' offense nor an NFL quality QB. 

[Bugg]

15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Seriously? This is yet another example of over-inferring things from stats, in this case by willfully ignoring the scheme, or even batting an eye at the way his pass rushing cut in half in the 2nd half of the season.

• The pressures stats above are heavily skewed in his favor as a built-in advantage, since every IDL isn't set up to be in a gap-shooting opportunity. He's not starting on 3rd base, but he's at least starting on 1st with a huge lead that the pitcher won't challenge.
• Probably the same goes for stops, since his job is more to disengage and run between iOLmen to make the play himself, rather than engage & occupy them man-to-man to instead allow LBs and/or safeties to run up to make the tackles in the box (if not at or just-past the LOS outright).
• e.g. how many 3-4 NTs (or dedicated space-occupiers even in 4-man fronts) are counted in these 89 IDL players? For a starting, gap-shooting DT to rank above all of them them should be shooting fish in a barrel because he's counting non-competitors.
• How many games along the way was he really taking over? I mean stops and pressures, not stops or pressures. Was he getting both every game, or was it just one at the expense of the other?

If I compared a RB's yards to a FB's yards,and counted a ball-carrying back so much higher by also counting him above blocking FBs in terms of yardage & TDs, I'd be rightly laughed at because their jobs are totally different in practice even if I'm able to loosely able to apply the "RB" label them all.

So this unserious "analysis" is grading Q on a major curve by paring through stats to find some way to make things look rosier, without at all seeking an equal playing-field analysis to see how he truly ranks among similar-task IDLs (as PFF at least seeks to do overall, even if highly flawed in practice). He's only looking for stats that paint a picture of him favorably, throwing out or ignoring any/all stats and data that don't do so, as though they are nonexistent. 

Williams has all the talent in the world, but given his hyped ceiling, the initial investment in him, the windfall of Ravens picks turned down for him, and the likely upcoming major reinvestment in him, he's been a relative letdown.

I know Q already publicly bragged about what he's going to do next year, and absolutely getting a legit edge rusher or two on the field with him will help a lot, as should improvements in coverage that we all want. Anyway I hope we see it, because it's a lot easier to extend a current elite player than it is to find a new one. 

Would be curious how they determine pressures. Is it a time measurement, like less than 2 seconds? What about plays where the offensive lineman simply fails? Are those plays were the QB gets it out with front 7 getting close? Not saying it's a BS stat, but sounds like something an agent can monkey around with. 

[playtowinthegame]

Trade him for a 3rd round pick and replace him with a guy in the first round. Right @jgb? Lol

[Warfish]

I sometimes forget QW is playing because of how rarely he seems to do something noteworthy.

 

[Jetsfan80]

53 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

gotta figure having our #1 pass rusher missing the year hurt him too as he was most likely focused. I like him, not sure how much we need to pay him. He has the ability to blow up any play imo

Quinnen is supposed to be our "# 1 pass rusher".  

Yet some here are advocating we pay this guy at or near what Leonard Williams makes ($21M per).

[Sperm Edwards]

44 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Would be curious how they determine pressures. Is it a time measurement, like less than 2 seconds? What about plays where the offensive lineman simply fails? Are those plays were the QB gets it out with front 7 getting close? Not saying it's a BS stat, but sounds like something an agent can monkey around with. 

Yep. 

Look, if you want to be fair to him in the other direction, as I did, how much curve-grading should take place when he's playing on a defense with no serious edge rusher (let alone 2 of them) and a laughable secondary & LB corps who collectively buy the front-4 precious few coverage sack opportunities.

So he does get double-teamed a lot. Forget about how much Donald also gets doubled-up and still terrorizes QBs. It's just not a fair comparison because the guy isn't human, and anyway there's only one of him and he's not an option for the Jets or anyone else. So for comparison purposes, just pretend he doesn't exist and then compare Q to who's left. 

Would Q have the same productivity if he had C.Lawson and another serious edge rusher on the same DL and behind the line they routinely buy Q and the rest of the DL an extra 0.5 to 2 seconds in coverage on known passing downs (especially longer yardage to go)? I'm sure his #s will improve, so long as he's healthy. But that's not what's being done here, which is cherrypicking of the highest order by saying look at these favorable stats and ignore all the rest (including game situations, opponents, consistency throughout the season instead of overvaluing 1-2 standout games, etc.). 

[THE BARON]

3 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

That tells me he should be on the block.

I agree he doesn’t pass the eye test for an Elite player, and the stats back it up.

Tells me he is a dude and not a *football player*.  Have the same feeling about Becton.  Remember when "football players" were "football players"??? See the 70's 80's.  These days, more high priced, pampered, privileged, high-tech trained kids now and not too many "football players". 

When football became a massive money making institution for both college and professional leagues, it lost a lot of its social value and basic appeal.  It used to be played for the sake of the game itself and for the qualities that it could help to tech kids at all levels of education.  It was born out of the blue color working class people as a game for gritty, hard nosed kids, and now it's become a shell of itself like many of the players are compared to the "football players" of old.  Working class people cant even afford to attend NFL games now.

Many of today's players remind me a lot of Met Life Stadium itself.  Tools to be used in a big, vapid corporate money making scheme.  No heart.  No soul.  No football. 

But the players sure are bigger, faster and make more money.  

[PepPep]

At what point do we move on from comparing the player to where the player was drafted. 

Yes, QW was over-drafted. He will probably never live up to the #3 overall pick. But does that mean the Jets should trade or let him walk in FA regardless of return? It makes no sense. He's still a good player with upside. We saw him have a great season last year. No reason to think he can't replicate that or even build on it when Lawson comes back and/or if we add another Pass Rusher.  

I'm not saying ignore all trade offers, I'm not saying back up the money truck for him. I'm just saying there seems to be this notion that since he isn't a top 10, top 5 D-lineman and hasn't lived up to his #3 pick we need to get rid of him. Which for a team devoid of talent is absolutely ludicrous reasoning. 

Frankly, of all the guys on our D-line, Q is the only guy I would pay. Lawson has been injured (could be great could be meh). JFM disappeared this year. Fat.? Rankins? Shep.? Phillips? Huff? Marshall? Would you rather invest in ANY of these other guys over Quinnen Williams?  

Jet fans seem to always be in la la land. Always acting like the grass in greener on the other side. Always looking to get rid of their best players. LMFAO. 

Theres another thread about trading Fant! Because why? He is coming up on his contract year and Becton is coming back? So trade him! He's only our best O-lineman. If there was one thing we learned this year wasn't it that having 3 viable starters at OT is more necessity than luxury? Especially with Bectons recent injury. And on top of that Moses is a FA. Some Jet fans lol 

[Snell41]

He’s a pretty good DT. If we can get compensation for him then I’d say trade him. If not let him finish out his rookie contract and walk. We’ve been consistently getting Q level production from guys we draft in late rounds.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Warfish]

25 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Would Q have the same productivity if he had C.Lawson and another serious edge rusher on the same DL and behind the line they routinely buy Q and the rest of the DL an extra 0.5 to 2 seconds in coverage on known passing downs (especially longer yardage to go)? I'm sure his #s will improve, so long as he's healthy.

Reasonable.

[section314]

2 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Very nice analysis. He’s an above average player but not elite.

This is why we shouldn't draft DTs and S in the top 15 picks. Having a DT who ranks 12-15 at his position is fantastic. But we drafted him 3rd overall.

It’s hard for these cant miss S and DTs to justify those high draft picks. 

Perfect summary. Not a difference maker. 

[Anthony Jet]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

the windfall of Ravens picks turned down for him, 

Please elaborate, first I heard of this one

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Seriously? This is yet another example of over-inferring things from stats, in this case by willfully ignoring the scheme, or even batting an eye at the way his pass rushing cut in half in the 2nd half of the season.

• The pressures stats above are heavily skewed in his favor as a built-in advantage, since every IDL isn't set up to be in a gap-shooting opportunity. He's not starting on 3rd base, but he's at least starting on 1st with a huge lead that the pitcher won't challenge.
• Probably the same goes for stops, since his job is more to disengage and run between iOLmen to make the play himself, rather than engage & occupy them man-to-man to instead allow LBs and/or safeties to run up to make the tackles in the box (if not at or just-past the LOS outright).
• e.g. how many 3-4 NTs (or dedicated space-occupiers even in 4-man fronts) are counted in these 89 IDL players? For a starting, gap-shooting DT to rank above all of them them should be shooting fish in a barrel because he's counting non-competitors.
• How many games along the way was he really taking over? I mean stops and pressures, not stops or pressures. Was he getting both every game, or was it just one at the expense of the other?

If I compared a RB's yards to a FB's yards,and counted a ball-carrying back so much higher by also counting him above blocking FBs in terms of yardage & TDs, I'd be rightly laughed at because their jobs are totally different in practice even if I'm able to loosely able to apply the "RB" label them all.

So this unserious "analysis" is grading Q on a major curve by paring through stats to find some way to make things look rosier, without at all seeking an equal playing-field analysis to see how he truly ranks among similar-task IDLs (as PFF at least seeks to do overall, even if highly flawed in practice). He's only looking for stats that paint a picture of him favorably, throwing out or ignoring any/all stats and data that don't do so, as though they are nonexistent. 

Williams has all the talent in the world, but given his hyped ceiling, the initial investment in him, the windfall of Ravens picks turned down for him, and the likely upcoming major reinvestment in him, he's been a relative letdown.

I know Q already publicly bragged about what he's going to do next year, and absolutely getting a legit edge rusher or two on the field with him will help a lot, as should improvements in coverage that we all want. Anyway I hope we see it, because it's a lot easier to extend a current elite player than it is to find a new one. 

Damn, that's a great post.

[section314]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Seriously? This is yet another example of over-inferring things from stats, in this case by willfully ignoring the scheme, or even batting an eye at the way his pass rushing cut in half in the 2nd half of the season.

• The pressures stats above are heavily skewed in his favor as a built-in advantage, since every IDL isn't set up to be in a gap-shooting opportunity. He's not starting on 3rd base, but he's at least starting on 1st with a huge lead that the pitcher won't challenge.
• Probably the same goes for stops, since his job is more to disengage and run between iOLmen to make the play himself, rather than engage & occupy them man-to-man to instead allow LBs and/or safeties to run up to make the tackles in the box (if not at or just-past the LOS outright).
• e.g. how many 3-4 NTs (or dedicated space-occupiers even in 4-man fronts) are counted in these 89 IDL players? For a starting, gap-shooting DT to rank above all of them them should be shooting fish in a barrel because he's counting non-competitors.
• How many games along the way was he really taking over? I mean stops and pressures, not stops or pressures. Was he getting both every game, or was it just one at the expense of the other?

If I compared a RB's yards to a FB's yards,and counted a ball-carrying back so much higher by also counting him above blocking FBs in terms of yardage & TDs, I'd be rightly laughed at because their jobs are totally different in practice even if I'm able to loosely able to apply the "RB" label them all.

So this unserious "analysis" is grading Q on a major curve by paring through stats to find some way to make things look rosier, without at all seeking an equal playing-field analysis to see how he truly ranks among similar-task IDLs (as PFF at least seeks to do overall, even if highly flawed in practice). He's only looking for stats that paint a picture of him favorably, throwing out or ignoring any/all stats and data that don't do so, as though they are nonexistent. 

Williams has all the talent in the world, but given his hyped ceiling, the initial investment in him, the windfall of Ravens picks turned down for him, and the likely upcoming major reinvestment in him, he's been a relative letdown.

I know Q already publicly bragged about what he's going to do next year, and absolutely getting a legit edge rusher or two on the field with him will help a lot, as should improvements in coverage that we all want. Anyway I hope we see it, because it's a lot easier to extend a current elite player than it is to find a new one. 

Relative? Be serious.....this guy has been a major letdown. He plays like a 2-3rd guy, not the damn #3 pick in a draft.

[varjet]

A team like the Buccaneers built a team and then rented Vea and Suh to play DT.  

While ZW is on his rookie contract we should keep QW around on his 5 year deal and maybe even FT him once or twice.  Eventually he will get too expensive.  If JD is smart he should be finding a cheaper replacement.

As we have discussed, guys like QW should be picked by good teams in the 20s to fill their DL during their rookie contracts.   How many of the top performers listed above are actually on second contracts?

[Barton]

Should have traded this guy for that "boat load of picks" some team was offering Douglas after Quinnens rookie year. 

To answer the question, he is thus far a middle of the pack defensive tackle. Solid player, nothing more. 

[Larz]

That’s disappointing. The defense needed him desperately. 
 

top 12 is like the line for him. 30s is unacceptable 

 

[rangerous]

qwill is getting the over drafted treatment that lots of jet players get.  i don't recall adams getting the same degree until he started shooting his mouth off.  people were willing to overlook his coverage skills because he was playing more like a linebacker.  the minute he was treated as a safety he became overdrafted.  imo qwil will look much better once they actually have a decent edge to complement his interior play.  granted he'll still be over drafted but he'll also be seen to be a keeper instead of a guy they can get in late draft rounds.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Anthony Jet said:

Please elaborate, first I heard of this one

IIRC it almost the Ravens' entire next season's (2020) draft, offered around the 2019 trade deadline (among other offers).

Looking it up now, since it was a couple years ago, you can also search "blockbuster package" of picks offered for him.

Anyway it was discussed here with some other detail (some leaks from people who know people in the FO I think) and the team that wouldn't take no for an answer, and kept coming back to offer more, was Baltimore.