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Where does Quinnen Williams rank among NFL defensive tackles?


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Very nice analysis ...

Q aint no Donald not even close ... so he should not be considered for the same salary stratosphere until he is.

He has the physical tools i think ... the relentless effort on every play is missing.

.... Richard Todd, Ken OBrien, Chad Pennington, Mark Sanchez, Genope, Sam Darnold ...



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Very nice analysis. He’s an above average player but not elite.

This is why we shouldn't draft DTs and S in the top 15 picks. Having a DT who ranks 12-15 at his position is fantastic. But we drafted him 3rd overall.

It’s hard for these cant miss S and DTs to justify those high draft picks. 

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So to recap: Coffee Boy drafted one Williams guy, also wearing # 92, almost identical size. for the same exact position and role, to replace the other. Both decent but neither is Donald or Heyward. And did so despite the New York Jets, at the time of each pick, had no f____in' offense nor an NFL quality QB. 

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15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Seriously? This is yet another example of over-inferring things from stats, in this case by willfully ignoring the scheme, or even batting an eye at the way his pass rushing cut in half in the 2nd half of the season.

  • The pressures stats above are heavily skewed in his favor as a built-in advantage, since every IDL isn't set up to be in a gap-shooting opportunity. He's not starting on 3rd base, but he's at least starting on 1st with a huge lead that the pitcher won't challenge.
  • Probably the same goes for stops, since his job is more to disengage and run between iOLmen to make the play himself, rather than engage & occupy them man-to-man to instead allow LBs and/or safeties to run up to make the tackles in the box (if not at or just-past the LOS outright).
  • e.g. how many 3-4 NTs (or dedicated space-occupiers even in 4-man fronts) are counted in these 89 IDL players? For a starting, gap-shooting DT to rank above all of them them should be shooting fish in a barrel because he's counting non-competitors.
  • How many games along the way was he really taking over? I mean stops and pressures, not stops or pressures. Was he getting both every game, or was it just one at the expense of the other?

If I compared a RB's yards to a FB's yards,and counted a ball-carrying back so much higher by also counting him above blocking FBs in terms of yardage & TDs, I'd be rightly laughed at because their jobs are totally different in practice even if I'm able to loosely able to apply the "RB" label them all.

So this unserious "analysis" is grading Q on a major curve by paring through stats to find some way to make things look rosier, without at all seeking an equal playing-field analysis to see how he truly ranks among similar-task IDLs (as PFF at least seeks to do overall, even if highly flawed in practice). He's only looking for stats that paint a picture of him favorably, throwing out or ignoring any/all stats and data that don't do so, as though they are nonexistent. 

Williams has all the talent in the world, but given his hyped ceiling, the initial investment in him, the windfall of Ravens picks turned down for him, and the likely upcoming major reinvestment in him, he's been a relative letdown.

I know Q already publicly bragged about what he's going to do next year, and absolutely getting a legit edge rusher or two on the field with him will help a lot, as should improvements in coverage that we all want. Anyway I hope we see it, because it's a lot easier to extend a current elite player than it is to find a new one. 

Would be curious how they determine pressures. Is it a time measurement, like less than 2 seconds? What about plays where the offensive lineman simply fails? Are those plays were the QB gets it out with front 7 getting close? Not saying it's a BS stat, but sounds like something an agent can monkey around with. 

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53 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

gotta figure having our #1 pass rusher missing the year hurt him too as he was most likely focused. I like him, not sure how much we need to pay him. He has the ability to blow up any play imo

Quinnen is supposed to be our "# 1 pass rusher".  

Yet some here are advocating we pay this guy at or near what Leonard Williams makes ($21M per).

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44 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Would be curious how they determine pressures. Is it a time measurement, like less than 2 seconds? What about plays where the offensive lineman simply fails? Are those plays were the QB gets it out with front 7 getting close? Not saying it's a BS stat, but sounds like something an agent can monkey around with. 

Yep. 

Look, if you want to be fair to him in the other direction, as I did, how much curve-grading should take place when he's playing on a defense with no serious edge rusher (let alone 2 of them) and a laughable secondary & LB corps who collectively buy the front-4 precious few coverage sack opportunities.

So he does get double-teamed a lot. Forget about how much Donald also gets doubled-up and still terrorizes QBs. It's just not a fair comparison because the guy isn't human, and anyway there's only one of him and he's not an option for the Jets or anyone else. So for comparison purposes, just pretend he doesn't exist and then compare Q to who's left. 

Would Q have the same productivity if he had C.Lawson and another serious edge rusher on the same DL and behind the line they routinely buy Q and the rest of the DL an extra 0.5 to 2 seconds in coverage on known passing downs (especially longer yardage to go)? I'm sure his #s will improve, so long as he's healthy. But that's not what's being done here, which is cherrypicking of the highest order by saying look at these favorable stats and ignore all the rest (including game situations, opponents, consistency throughout the season instead of overvaluing 1-2 standout games, etc.). 

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3 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

That tells me he should be on the block.

I agree he doesn’t pass the eye test for an Elite player, and the stats back it up.

Tells me he is a dude and not a *football player*.  Have the same feeling about Becton.  Remember when "football players" were "football players"??? See the 70's 80's.  These days, more high priced, pampered, privileged, high-tech trained kids now and not too many "football players". 

When football became a massive money making institution for both college and professional leagues, it lost a lot of its social value and basic appeal.  It used to be played for the sake of the game itself and for the qualities that it could help to tech kids at all levels of education.  It was born out of the blue color working class people as a game for gritty, hard nosed kids, and now it's become a shell of itself like many of the players are compared to the "football players" of old.  Working class people cant even afford to attend NFL games now.

Many of today's players remind me a lot of Met Life Stadium itself.  Tools to be used in a big, vapid corporate money making scheme.  No heart.  No soul.  No football. 

But the players sure are bigger, faster and make more money.  

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At what point do we move on from comparing the player to where the player was drafted. 

Yes, QW was over-drafted. He will probably never live up to the #3 overall pick. But does that mean the Jets should trade or let him walk in FA regardless of return? It makes no sense. He's still a good player with upside. We saw him have a great season last year. No reason to think he can't replicate that or even build on it when Lawson comes back and/or if we add another Pass Rusher.  

I'm not saying ignore all trade offers, I'm not saying back up the money truck for him. I'm just saying there seems to be this notion that since he isn't a top 10, top 5 D-lineman and hasn't lived up to his #3 pick we need to get rid of him. Which for a team devoid of talent is absolutely ludicrous reasoning. 

Frankly, of all the guys on our D-line, Q is the only guy I would pay. Lawson has been injured (could be great could be meh). JFM disappeared this year. Fat.? Rankins? Shep.? Phillips? Huff? Marshall? Would you rather invest in ANY of these other guys over Quinnen Williams?  

Jet fans seem to always be in la la land. Always acting like the grass in greener on the other side. Always looking to get rid of their best players. LMFAO. 

Theres another thread about trading Fant! Because why? He is coming up on his contract year and Becton is coming back? So trade him! He's only our best O-lineman. If there was one thing we learned this year wasn't it that having 3 viable starters at OT is more necessity than luxury? Especially with Bectons recent injury. And on top of that Moses is a FA. Some Jet fans lol 

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25 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Would Q have the same productivity if he had C.Lawson and another serious edge rusher on the same DL and behind the line they routinely buy Q and the rest of the DL an extra 0.5 to 2 seconds in coverage on known passing downs (especially longer yardage to go)? I'm sure his #s will improve, so long as he's healthy.

Reasonable.

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2 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Very nice analysis. He’s an above average player but not elite.

This is why we shouldn't draft DTs and S in the top 15 picks. Having a DT who ranks 12-15 at his position is fantastic. But we drafted him 3rd overall.

It’s hard for these cant miss S and DTs to justify those high draft picks. 

Perfect summary. Not a difference maker. 

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Seriously? This is yet another example of over-inferring things from stats, in this case by willfully ignoring the scheme, or even batting an eye at the way his pass rushing cut in half in the 2nd half of the season.

  • The pressures stats above are heavily skewed in his favor as a built-in advantage, since every IDL isn't set up to be in a gap-shooting opportunity. He's not starting on 3rd base, but he's at least starting on 1st with a huge lead that the pitcher won't challenge.
  • Probably the same goes for stops, since his job is more to disengage and run between iOLmen to make the play himself, rather than engage & occupy them man-to-man to instead allow LBs and/or safeties to run up to make the tackles in the box (if not at or just-past the LOS outright).
  • e.g. how many 3-4 NTs (or dedicated space-occupiers even in 4-man fronts) are counted in these 89 IDL players? For a starting, gap-shooting DT to rank above all of them them should be shooting fish in a barrel because he's counting non-competitors.
  • How many games along the way was he really taking over? I mean stops and pressures, not stops or pressures. Was he getting both every game, or was it just one at the expense of the other?

If I compared a RB's yards to a FB's yards,and counted a ball-carrying back so much higher by also counting him above blocking FBs in terms of yardage & TDs, I'd be rightly laughed at because their jobs are totally different in practice even if I'm able to loosely able to apply the "RB" label them all.

So this unserious "analysis" is grading Q on a major curve by paring through stats to find some way to make things look rosier, without at all seeking an equal playing-field analysis to see how he truly ranks among similar-task IDLs (as PFF at least seeks to do overall, even if highly flawed in practice). He's only looking for stats that paint a picture of him favorably, throwing out or ignoring any/all stats and data that don't do so, as though they are nonexistent. 

Williams has all the talent in the world, but given his hyped ceiling, the initial investment in him, the windfall of Ravens picks turned down for him, and the likely upcoming major reinvestment in him, he's been a relative letdown.

I know Q already publicly bragged about what he's going to do next year, and absolutely getting a legit edge rusher or two on the field with him will help a lot, as should improvements in coverage that we all want. Anyway I hope we see it, because it's a lot easier to extend a current elite player than it is to find a new one. 

Damn, that's a great post.

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Seriously? This is yet another example of over-inferring things from stats, in this case by willfully ignoring the scheme, or even batting an eye at the way his pass rushing cut in half in the 2nd half of the season.

  • The pressures stats above are heavily skewed in his favor as a built-in advantage, since every IDL isn't set up to be in a gap-shooting opportunity. He's not starting on 3rd base, but he's at least starting on 1st with a huge lead that the pitcher won't challenge.
  • Probably the same goes for stops, since his job is more to disengage and run between iOLmen to make the play himself, rather than engage & occupy them man-to-man to instead allow LBs and/or safeties to run up to make the tackles in the box (if not at or just-past the LOS outright).
  • e.g. how many 3-4 NTs (or dedicated space-occupiers even in 4-man fronts) are counted in these 89 IDL players? For a starting, gap-shooting DT to rank above all of them them should be shooting fish in a barrel because he's counting non-competitors.
  • How many games along the way was he really taking over? I mean stops and pressures, not stops or pressures. Was he getting both every game, or was it just one at the expense of the other?

If I compared a RB's yards to a FB's yards,and counted a ball-carrying back so much higher by also counting him above blocking FBs in terms of yardage & TDs, I'd be rightly laughed at because their jobs are totally different in practice even if I'm able to loosely able to apply the "RB" label them all.

So this unserious "analysis" is grading Q on a major curve by paring through stats to find some way to make things look rosier, without at all seeking an equal playing-field analysis to see how he truly ranks among similar-task IDLs (as PFF at least seeks to do overall, even if highly flawed in practice). He's only looking for stats that paint a picture of him favorably, throwing out or ignoring any/all stats and data that don't do so, as though they are nonexistent. 

Williams has all the talent in the world, but given his hyped ceiling, the initial investment in him, the windfall of Ravens picks turned down for him, and the likely upcoming major reinvestment in him, he's been a relative letdown.

I know Q already publicly bragged about what he's going to do next year, and absolutely getting a legit edge rusher or two on the field with him will help a lot, as should improvements in coverage that we all want. Anyway I hope we see it, because it's a lot easier to extend a current elite player than it is to find a new one. 

Relative? Be serious.....this guy has been a major letdown. He plays like a 2-3rd guy, not the damn #3 pick in a draft.

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A team like the Buccaneers built a team and then rented Vea and Suh to play DT.  

While ZW is on his rookie contract we should keep QW around on his 5 year deal and maybe even FT him once or twice.  Eventually he will get too expensive.  If JD is smart he should be finding a cheaper replacement.

As we have discussed, guys like QW should be picked by good teams in the 20s to fill their DL during their rookie contracts.   How many of the top performers listed above are actually on second contracts?

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Should have traded this guy for that "boat load of picks" some team was offering Douglas after Quinnens rookie year. 

To answer the question, he is thus far a middle of the pack defensive tackle. Solid player, nothing more. 

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qwill is getting the over drafted treatment that lots of jet players get.  i don't recall adams getting the same degree until he started shooting his mouth off.  people were willing to overlook his coverage skills because he was playing more like a linebacker.  the minute he was treated as a safety he became overdrafted.  imo qwil will look much better once they actually have a decent edge to complement his interior play.  granted he'll still be over drafted but he'll also be seen to be a keeper instead of a guy they can get in late draft rounds.

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1 hour ago, Anthony Jet said:

Please elaborate, first I heard of this one

IIRC it almost the Ravens' entire next season's (2020) draft, offered around the 2019 trade deadline (among other offers).

Looking it up now, since it was a couple years ago, you can also search "blockbuster package" of picks offered for him.

Anyway it was discussed here with some other detail (some leaks from people who know people in the FO I think) and the team that wouldn't take no for an answer, and kept coming back to offer more, was Baltimore. 

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