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Other GMs get called out too


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1 hour ago, NYJets43 said:

The Jets traded up for Mark Sanchez. Actually moved up from 17 to 5 and gave up very little to Do so. 

Yeah I remember that ... was it Mangini that wanted a laundry list of his old (scrub) players and all we added was one additional pick?

EDIT - our #1 (17 overall) and #2 pick, Abram Elam, Kenyon Coleman and Brett Ratliff. :D  

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1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I just dont get it.  Kingsbury went 5-10-1, then 8-8, now 11-6 and a playoff appearance.  And they are furious and thinking about firing everyone.  

Same thing in Dallas.  McCarthy goes 6-10 year 1 then goes 12-5, wins the division and makes the playoffs.  And they want him gone.

Same will happen here when we go 8-9 next year.  And this board will be up in arms about firing everyone.

Its really unbelievable.

 

 

A lot of fans don't remember much other than how their season ended ... and potentially a lot of FO / coaches too.

We lost to Pittsburgh in the playoffs because of missed FGs, so we went and drafted a kicker high in the next draft. Like that was all we needed to do. Never mind how the rest of the season went and what else was important, what other holes we had.

You even see the same in game - everyone is talking about how Dallas messed up their last drive, but why were they in that position in the first place? Why did they only put up 7 points in the first three quarters? Far more important than whether to rush for 12 yards vs 17 yards, how much they practice the spike process etc. Focus on what really matters!

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27 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Yeah I remember that ... was it Mangini that wanted a laundry list of his old (scrub) players and all we added was one additional pick?

EDIT - our #1 (17 overall) and #2 pick, Abram Elam, Kenyon Coleman and Brett Ratliff. :D  

It was Ratliff, Abram Elam, and a DL (Kenyon Coleman?) 

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21 minutes ago, jamesr said:

A lot of fans don't remember much other than how their season ended ... and potentially a lot of FO / coaches too.

We lost to Pittsburgh in the playoffs because of missed FGs, so we went and drafted a kicker high in the next draft. Like that was all we needed to do. Never mind how the rest of the season went and what else was important, what other holes we had.

You even see the same in game - everyone is talking about how Dallas messed up their last drive, but why were they in that position in the first place? Why did they only put up 7 points in the first three quarters? Far more important than whether to rush for 12 yards vs 17 yards, how much they practice the spike process etc. Focus on what really matters!

I get Dallas. Jones is probably thinking that there really isn’t much else I can do from a personnel standpoint to improve the team. 

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Just now, NYJets43 said:

I get Dallas. Jones is probably thinking that there really isn’t much else I can do from a personnel standpoint to improve the team. 

Personnel wise sure ... that really is a "did less with more" scenario.

But they need to look at the whole game execution-wise, not just that last drive. How come the offense was stagnant for so long? If not for SF playing it safe and kicking FGs they could have been dead in the water mid way through Q3, if not sooner. Many more issues than just that two minute drill.

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1 minute ago, NYJets43 said:

Sadly, Mangini probably won the trade. 
 

He drafted Alex Mack with one of those picks. 

Agreed - and I think Mack was after a second trade down too.

Trader Mike did really well to manage the trade up. Drafter Mike did not so well on the pick. ;-) 

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I can sympathize with that, but the team was built to run a certain way, and he was the most important cog (other than Murray himself). It's not like losing post-awesome AJ Green. To that point, if Green holds onto that 20+ yard pass on the prior play then the flip-pick doesn't happen, and without being behind by 3 TDs maybe he doesn't force the next one in either. 

As you point out ("Duh!!") I don't think it's saying much to note that a QB's job with his elite WR is easier than when after he suddenly goes down, after the trade deadline, leaving the QB with two has-beens and a meh. That's on top of having his own GVR-ish guard on his OL in Garcia, and a RB who blocks like he's got money on the other team. 

So yeah I agree on the posting of QB ratings in this way, presuming that all other things are identical except this one factor (significant as that factor is), when that's just not the truth. e.g. against GB he also had two backup guards on the line (each of them lower than Garcia on their depth chart), lost some defenders, oh yeah and lost the best WR he'll ever have the good fortune of throwing to.

Agree with everything you have to say here. And then I can point to Tom Brady who lost his 2 best WR's, and his top RB, and is still swimming along (although I think it will not be easy now). And, he is always the outlier.

And this all gets back to my simmering point which I have yet to manifest fully yet, each qb, each situation, each person is different. Enough with the comparison games that make proclamations that are because of x, y will =x. It is lazy and stupid. 


And Spermy, you are not the source of these.

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Murray is the best midget QB in the NFL.  The Cardinals are a staked team even without Hopkins and they shat the bed down the stretch two years in a row.  

Hard to win against equal talent when your QB constantly has to move just to create a thowing lane.   

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1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

Agree with everything you have to say here. And then I can point to Tom Brady who lost his 2 best WR's, and his top RB, and is still swimming along (although I think it will not be easy now). And, he is always the outlier.

And this all gets back to my simmering point which I have yet to manifest fully yet, each qb, each situation, each person is different. Enough with the comparison games that make proclamations that are because of x, y will =x. It is lazy and stupid. 


And Spermy, you are not the source of these.

+1

If those statistical logic propositions (based on past data) always held true, there wouldn't be any upsets. 

And while Brady is an obvious outlier - a more accomplished and polished passer than Murray, no matter what stats one may care to isolate - amazingly he still has a third remaining WR1 to throw to. Evans is a helluva lot more deadly a weapon than any non-Hopkins WR on Arizona. Also while Gronk may not be in his go-to prime, I think he's closer to it than Ertz in terms of his QB thinking, "I need a 1st down right now." Plus Fournette's looked like a player again; plus a better overall OL with more time together; plus Brady cheats and gets flags virtually whenever he asks for them, as though sacking him or covering his receivers is not against the rules, lol. 

So while Brady's a more complete passer than Murray anyway (other than escapability/speed of course), even this should highlight it's still not apples to apples QB situations aside from the QBs themselves.

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1 hour ago, jamesr said:

Imagine pulling off a trade like that these days? :D  

Well once Stafford was off the board, he was the next-best and could've gone anywhere from 5, where we took him, to 10-12. Just because we bought into the undeserved hype doesn't mean any of the next 5 or so slotted teams would have.

  • Rodgers could've gone #3 or in the mid-20s. If someone had taken him #3 it'd be considered preposterous that he could've slipped to #24, yet he did.
  • Leinart might've gone anywhere in the top 3 instead of #10. Had just one team liked him a hair better, and took him up there, no one would believe he nearly slipped to #10. 
  • Rosen was pick/prospect 1B when we traded up to #3. Then 3 QBs get taken ahead of him as he drops to #10 as well.
  • That knucklehead Manziel was supposed to be a lock to go #1...then he drops to #22.
  • Geno could've gone as high as 1st overall if he didn't act like such a hardon...then drops out of the 1st round completely.

Those are just some QBs who stick out in my head. Happens to lots of other prospects at all different positions. 

So anyway, it could very well be that someone gets hyped up to pick #4 to leapfrog the Giants.

Too early to tell, but if there was some clear top-ranked QB, then in a weak upper-1st round he'd be going #1 overall not merely top 10 anyway. 

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4 hours ago, NYJets43 said:

The Jets traded up for Mark Sanchez. Actually moved up from 17 to 5 and gave up very little to Do so. 

You're right. Unfortunately I'm getting them all mixed up. I was walking over to my friend's dorm room cuz he was having a draft party, and my phone started blowing up with texts from my buddies. I got to the room and was immediately furious about the move up and who we had taken. I would have been wrong anyway because I wanted to play the year out with Ratliff and then be in a position to trade up to draft Bradford the following year. 

My point remains though. Despite disagreeing with the move up to 5 for Sanchez, and after writing many posts on JI in '09 and '10 about how he was holding us back - I still found myself defending Sanchez's play from that crowd at various times in '11 and '12.

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