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It's ALL about playmakers


johnnysd
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21 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I will agree with you there. 

I have a frozen boneless leg of lamb in my freezer, cannot wait to pull that bad boy out. 

I think baby loin lamb chops on the grill with a simple S-P and fresh rosemary rub is my favorite all time meat. 

You have to love a food you can fck and eat. 

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23 hours ago, johnnysd said:

If this weekend showed anything it is that winning is all about surrounding your QB with the most talent possible. It is obvious. Even the #1 defense in the league cannot match up with elite playmakers.

Not saying you should ignore defense, but with our robust lineup of Corey Davis, Elijah Moore and possibly Berrios and nothing at TE we should go into this offseason planning on getting at least 2 high level WR and TEs and more OL.

Our first 4 picks should be on offense at least.

And before you all cry "but but EDGE!!!" 9 sacks was not enough to win in the Cincy game.

It is ALL about playmakers. As Saleh said "we will lift you (Zach) up not the other way around" Well go fooking do it.

It's never that easy... no doubt you need playmakers. but it comes down to execution

DAL has

  1. Dak
  2. Zeke
  3. Pollard
  4. Amari Cooper
  5. Ceedee Lamb
  6. TEs falling out trees

Sweet eff eh is what that amounted to vs SF...

So pump the brakes Denis

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4 hours ago, johnnysd said:

For me it just goes back to this. I actually do not care about the defense at all relative to giving Zach the support he needs to grow and develop. Our offense is far far from settled at OL, WR and TE. We need probably 2 WR 2 TE and at least 1 OL that are not JAGS this offseason. Not doing that trying to plug holes in defense early in the draft.

I'd say Jets teams of the past were "far from settled" on offense.  This team probably adds a couple receivers a couple tight ends and a few OL this offseason.  That being said, the starting 11 is pretty damn good IMO with the addition of a stud at RG, a legit receiving option at TE and a slot.  That's a few pieces.  Not "far" at all IMO.

Now the defense?  That's another story.  They need AT LEAST 2 LB, 1-2 Safeties, 2-3 corners and 1-2 pass rushers.  Possibly a DL or two as well if Foley and Rankins leave. 

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1 hour ago, AFJF said:

I'd say Jets teams of the past were "far from settled" on offense.  This team probably adds a couple receivers a couple tight ends and a few OL this offseason.  That being said, the starting 11 is pretty damn good IMO with the addition of a stud at RG, a legit receiving option at TE and a slot.  That's a few pieces.  Not "far" at all IMO.

Now the defense?  That's another story.  They need AT LEAST 2 LB, 1-2 Safeties, 2-3 corners and 1-2 pass rushers.  Possibly a DL or two as well if Foley and Rankins leave. 

I do not disagree on defense and it's not like the Jets wont try and address defense in the offseason. I think the strategy needs to be this:

1. Use high draft picks on offense. Get multiple elite playmakers.  I am just not going to compromise on the development of Zach.

2. Address the defense with free agents and later draft picks.

It's what Cincy did.

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3 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I do not disagree on defense and it's not like the Jets wont try and address defense in the offseason. I think the strategy needs to be this:

1. Use high draft picks on offense. Get multiple elite playmakers.  I am just not going to compromise on the development of Zach.

2. Address the defense with free agents and later draft picks.

It's what Cincy did.

I think one of the top two tackles at 4 and McBride in round 2 gives you most of what you need on offense.  Sign a FA to play slot or use another pick there.  I'm a big Wan'Dale Robinson guy but not sure how long he'll be on the board.

Get and edge and some LBers so teams aren't just running the ball at will and exposing guys who can't cover.

More than one way to skin a cat, right? 

I honestly think this is kind of moot.  I want defense with 2 of the top 3 or possibly 3 of the top 4 picks but my gut says Joe D deals down from 10 and adds one or two more premium picks, meaning he can go hard after offense and defense in the top 100.

People say it all the time, or at least it feels like they do, but this draft will determine the direction of this franchise for the next 10 years.  Hit on 3 or 4 premium picks and you're in very good shape.  Pull and Idzik/Mac/Parcells and  you're effed.

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7 hours ago, AFJF said:



Jets need defense early because I'm sure none of the teams playing this weekend gave up 500 points this season, though I admittedly didn't look it up.


 

Of all the playoff teams only LV Raiders gave up more than 400 points (439). Next worst was the Steelers at 398. 

Of the weekend teams, Cincy gave up the most at 376 and outside of Buffalo, TB were the lowest at 353. So all tightly grouped. Bills were the real outlier at 289.

376 is just over 22 points per game. 353 is over 20. Jets were over 29 ppg. We'd need to give up one less touchdown every game to get within range of the playoff field from this past weekend. 

Doing the same on offense ... of the weekend team the lowest scorers in the regular season were Tennessee (419) and SF (427). That's around 24 / 25 ppg. Jets were 310 - just over 18 ppg. So we'd need to score one more touchdown every game to get within range of the playoff field from this past weekend.

Not surprisingly we need both offense AND defense. ;-) 

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I appreciate this thread and I've been screaming yolo on offense for years but you dont need dump every high draft pick into offense to make it elite.  I know everyone is buzzing about that Sunday Night game well, lets look at their offense:

Chiefs. Tyreek Hill - 5th round, Travis Kelce - 3rd round, Mecole Hardman - 2nd round, Byron Pringle - UDFA.  In fact, the only player they have on offense they took in the 1st round is CEH and lost his job to FA almost out of the league, Jarick McKinnon.

The Chiefs havent had many 1st round picks recently but their drafts have been heavy DL/LB with their early picks. 

Bills. Stephon Diggs - 5th round pick, acquired via trade.  Cole Beasley - UDFA acquired via FA.  Emmanuel Sanders - 3rd round pick, acquired via FA. Dawson Knox - 3rd round pick.  Gabe Davis - 4th round pick. Devin Singletary - 3rd round pick.

How do the Bills address he draft; they've taken DL or CB every draft since taking Sammy Watkins at 4 overall. 

Moral to the story, doesnt matter how, just find play makers and prioritize the LOS.

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20 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I stated this weeks ago:

#4 - best olineman in the draft

#10 - best wr in the draft

#35 - best te in the draft

#38 - best rb in the draft

If Ekwonu and Neal are gone, what then. What if the Jets trade one of their 2nds for Ridley?

I would draft BPA in a position of need. While I may prefer Ekwonu at #4, I may have to settle for Neal or Hutchinson. There is no way I want Hamilton or Stingley. Rather address Safety and CB in FA.

I do like Wilson at 10, but I also like Travon Walker at 10 also. 

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On 1/24/2022 at 9:31 AM, Joe W. Namath said:

I stated this weeks ago:

#4 - best olineman in the draft

#10 - best wr in the draft

#35 - best te in the draft

#38 - best rb in the draft

If you went into the draft as NYJ GM with this on your wristband...  I'd mail you a dead cat every monday from now until the SPCA found me. You can't put positional blinders on in the top 50. Ever,

 

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31 minutes ago, Paradis said:

If you went into the draft as NYJ GM with this on your wristband...  I'd mail you a dead cat every monday from now until the SPCA found me. You can't put positional blinders on in the top 50. Ever,

 

Where are you getting this dead cat?

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On 1/23/2022 at 7:26 PM, johnnysd said:

If this weekend showed anything it is that winning is all about surrounding your QB with the most talent possible. It is obvious. Even the #1 defense in the league cannot match up with elite playmakers.

Not saying you should ignore defense, but with our robust lineup of Corey Davis, Elijah Moore and possibly Berrios and nothing at TE we should go into this offseason planning on getting at least 2 high level WR and TEs and more OL.

Our first 4 picks should be on offense at least.

And before you all cry "but but EDGE!!!" 9 sacks was not enough to win in the Cincy game.

It is ALL about playmakers. As Saleh said "we will lift you (Zach) up not the other way around" Well go fooking do it.

Sounds good but our run defense was just pathetic. Our LB’s were always out of position and lacked a pass rush threat. JD needs to draft a LB and another edge early. He also needs to get another safety and another CB. Saleh’s defense centers around the pass rush.  We got run over time and time again. It can’t happen again next year. Ridgeway from Arkansas would be a nice pick up. 6’6 320. Dude is a monster. And draft Harris from Alabama. Excellent pass rusher, good in coverage and run tackler. 

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8 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Everyone needs dudes.  Playmakers.  Studs.  Whatever phrase you want to use.  The best teams at every level know who they are, what they want to do and finding those dudes that fit that. In my opinion at least. 

I believe the word you are looking for is "dawgs". :D  

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Mahomes against Buffalo was lights out under pressure.  This week after a bone headed play to close the half the pressure got to him.  He was atrocious in the 2nd half and when he finally got the Chiefs in position for a game winning TD on 2nd and 3rd down he looked like a rookie.  The 2nd and 3rd down play was a terrible sequence for an experienced NFL QB.  He shat himself on national TV.  The Bengals kept the pressure on but the Bengals didn't win that game.  Mahomes lost it.  

Mahomes to date is probably the greatest QB I have ever seen.  The big contract, the marriage and baby and being the face of dandruff shampoo and crappy insurance has taken a toll on him.  The loose kid with the enormous talent started having trouble breathing in a big spot.   It looked like the weight of the world was on him and he simply imploded.  Not to say the Bengals didn't play well but the Chiefs had that game and where at home.  Mahomes simply imploded on the big stage after being great the week before.

We saw the same thing with Rodgers last week.  It's more than being great, it's being great over time with the constant pressure off and on the field. 

FYI Andy Reid looks like he has one foot in the grave.  The guy looks like a walking corpse.  Hope he gets out now.  Great career but you can see he's on the cusp of a terrible health issue if he doesn't get out and get himself in some kind of shape. 

In the battle of nerves Burrow out cooled Mahomes.  Now that the spotlight is going to go on Borrow lets see if he can hold on and be great for a sustained period of time.  What happened in KC makes me appreciate Montana, Starr and Brady even more.  The outside and inside pressure to maintain excellence and handle the big spots gets tougher not easier as you become aware of how big the moments are.  Mahomes is just starting to appreciate it.  

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1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Mahomes against Buffalo was lights out under pressure.  This week after a bone headed play to close the half the pressure got to him.  He was atrocious in the 2nd half and when he finally got the Chiefs in position for a game winning TD on 2nd and 3rd down he looked like a rookie.  The 2nd and 3rd down play was a terrible sequence for an experienced NFL QB.  He shat himself on national TV.  The Bengals kept the pressure on but the Bengals didn't win that game.  Mahomes lost it.  

Mahomes to date is probably the greatest QB I have ever seen.  The big contract, the marriage and baby and being the face of dandruff shampoo and crappy insurance has taken a toll on him.  The loose kid with the enormous talent started having trouble breathing in a big spot.   It looked like the weight of the world was on him and he simply imploded.  Not to say the Bengals didn't play well but the Chiefs had that game and where at home.  Mahomes simply imploded on the big stage after being great the week before.

We saw the same thing with Rodgers last week.  It's more than being great, it's being great over time with the constant pressure off and on the field. 

FYI Andy Reid looks like he has one foot in the grave.  The guy looks like a walking corpse.  Hope he gets out now.  Great career but you can see he's on the cusp of a terrible health issue if he doesn't get out and get himself in some kind of shape. 

In the battle of nerves Burrow out cooled Mahomes.  Now that the spotlight is going to go on Borrow lets see if he can hold on and be great for a sustained period of time.  What happened in KC makes me appreciate Montana, Starr and Brady even more.  The outside and inside pressure to maintain excellence and handle the big spots gets tougher not easier as you become aware of how big the moments are.  Mahomes is just starting to appreciate it.  

I disagree completely. Mahomes didn't succumb to pressure, he just didn't make the play. Probably got a little cocky because everything he tried was working. Great ones are shameless.  They have no memory. 6 ints. in 3 quarters, I'll just throw 3 TDs in Q4 to win the game. No damage done.

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On 1/23/2022 at 10:29 PM, jeremy2020 said:

The Bills #1 status was fake. They played a lot of sub-standard QBs and they play a gamble defense based on NFL trends. Teams that call their bluff own their defense and as we just saw, when it's called, they can't do anything. That's nice and all during the regular season, but they need a stouter defense if they want a ring even if they were missing White. 

They were 13 seconds away from beating KC too and lost in Ot without touching the ball. I would’ve liked their chances with the Bengals at home. I wish you were right but I don’t think they’re a fake, I think they’ll be very tough to beat in our division for many years. 

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6 minutes ago, Jethead said:

I disagree completely. Mahomes didn't succumb to pressure, he just didn't make the play. Probably got a little cocky because everything he tried was working. Great ones are shameless.  They have no memory. 6 ints. in 3 quarters, I'll just throw 3 TDs in Q4 to win the game. No damage done.

He absolutely melted down in that game.  It was effecting his accuracy and decision making.   He wasn't cocky he was choking.

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9 minutes ago, Biggs said:

He absolutely melted down in that game.  It was effecting his accuracy and decision making.   He wasn't cocky he was choking.

Nope, sorry don't buy it. Last week he was immortal.  This week he's a choker. Ixnay!

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On 1/24/2022 at 9:11 PM, Peace Frog said:

I will agree with you there. 

I have a frozen boneless leg of lamb in my freezer, cannot wait to pull that bad boy out. 

I think baby loin lamb chops on the grill with a simple S-P and fresh rosemary rub is my favorite all time meat. 

For some reason shop rite had boneless leg of lamb on sale yesterday for $6.50 /lb. I bought 3 

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11 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Nope, sorry don't buy it. Last week he was immortal.  This week he's a choker. Ixnay!

How else do you explain that?  The Pressure finally got to him.  He was atrocious down the stretch.  He didn't need to be great he needed to manage the situation and he didn't.  

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On 1/23/2022 at 10:26 PM, johnnysd said:

If this weekend showed anything it is that winning is all about surrounding your QB with the most talent possible. It is obvious. Even the #1 defense in the league cannot match up with elite playmakers.

Not saying you should ignore defense, but with our robust lineup of Corey Davis, Elijah Moore and possibly Berrios and nothing at TE we should go into this offseason planning on getting at least 2 high level WR and TEs and more OL.

Our first 4 picks should be on offense at least.

And before you all cry "but but EDGE!!!" 9 sacks was not enough to win in the Cincy game.

It is ALL about playmakers. As Saleh said "we will lift you (Zach) up not the other way around" Well go fooking do it.

If we learned anything, it is without a solid D, your O will struggle. The Bengals were able to erase and 18 point deficit because the defense held KC in check the entire second half. Without that effort, they are making plans for golf. We need play makers on D right now, it is by far the worse off. 

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2 hours ago, Biggs said:

He absolutely melted down in that game.  It was effecting his accuracy and decision making.   He wasn't cocky he was choking.

Mahomes wanted the sexy play instead of the play that was in front of him. Instead of taking sacks at the end of regulation he could have checked down.  Even in OT he forced it into double coverage instead of hitting an open Travis Kelce. He reminded me of Brett Favre costing the Packers with his sloppy decisions. Win with the Chucker, die with the Chucker. 

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2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

If we learned anything, it is without a solid D, your O will struggle. The Bengals were able to erase and 18 point deficit because the defense held KC in check the entire second half. Without that effort, they are making plans for golf. We need play makers on D right now, it is by far the worse off. 

I am not saying we should not develop our defense. But at this point in our team's development getting more playmakers and protection for Zach is WAY more important, especially in the draft than defense. All of the final 4 teams were among the most loaded teams in weapons and that is not coincidence. Cincinatti built their team by priortizing offfense in the draft early. We need to continue to do the same. That does not mean not to sign FAs on defense or use draft picks on defense but the overreaching plan needs to be to "lift up" Zach as much as possible and that is done with playmakers and OL. We realistically need 2 WR, 2 TE and a starting OL this offseason.

I will actually slightly disagree that the KC defense was the reason KC was held in check. To my eyes Mahomes just imploded. On the first few series he mad a ton of very iffy to bad throws and he was not able to pull the trigger when they get 8 men in the box. Like all things in the NFL it was likely a little of both but Mahomes to my eyes completely lost it in the second half maybe in part due to a horrible decision at the end of the first half.

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