Changing OT in playoffs

[CanadaSteve]

18 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Oh for goodness sakes. It's not like they changed the rule for this game.

Everyone knows the deal going in - hold them to a field goal and your offense gets a chance. 

Stop acting like it was unfair because it wasn't.

Just because everyone agrees to the 'deal' doesn't make it fair.

Not getting a chance to score is, quite literally, the definition of not fair. 

And why can't the NFL and its fans be open to suggestions that could improve the product?  Are you suggesting that each team getting 3 possessions with total points would not be more exciting?  Or playing a full ten-minute period, most points win?

Sorry, but I don't see how you can think it is fair when both teams do not get to have the ball.  I would be saying the EXACT same thing if KC had of lost the toss and Buffalo won. 

[CanadaSteve]

4 hours ago, CSNY said:

The game is not decided on a coin flip. The game is decided on the teams ability to score and teams ability to not allow a score. Coin flip only decides who gets the ball first. Play defense and get off the field no need to change rules 

Again, that is at the very heart of the argument: Each team not getting one offensive and defensive possession.  (Insert baseball analogy here)

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

1. coinflip. 

2. Teams then proceed to locker room for 10 minutes.

3. While teams are going to the locker room. 1:30 (3) commercials for network.

4. Teams in locker room or 10 minutes.

5. Networks do their slapdick commentary during those 8 minutes.

6. Teams leave lockerroom. 1 minute commercials.

Total time is around 15 minutes. This in't that hare and you can slice and dice it many ways.

Not discussing this further. What you just described now is ass backwards and not what you had been saying

 It's  actually a lot closer to what I have been saying. 

[PFSIKH]

12 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

First off....Game for the ages!  Probably one of the best football games played in the longest time I can remember.

That said.  This overtime rule in the playoffs.  I can understand (kind of) why they have it the way they do for regular season.  But when it comes to the playoffs, should both teams not get at least one possession?  I mean, it literally comes down to a coin toss.  Would have made that game even more exciting if Buffalo gets a chance to go down and score as well.

Yeah, it is not fair, but make a play. 

It is funny the Chiefs are cool with the OT now as opposed in 2018, but I digress. 

If the Bills won the toss and more probable than not go down the field and score a TD.  Make a play Chiefs.

Each team had chances in the last two minutes to make a stand and both teams caved.  Allow a 4th and 13 for a TD.  Allow a 64 yard TD to Hill.   Allow a 6 play 75 yard drive in 49 seconds.  Allow a 3 play 44 yard drive in 13 seconds for game tying FG.  Hey Sean, how about a squib kick.

It is probably the best of a situation with no perfect solutions.

[CSNY]

43 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Again, that is at the very heart of the argument: Each team not getting one offensive and defensive possession.  (Insert baseball analogy here)

Why bring in a totally different sport with totally different rules. Football      You play defense stop opponents from scoring  get ball. Intercept pass run for TD win game. Return fumble for TD Cause fumble kick field goal win game Tackle ball carrier in end zone safety win game. Will  the team that had ball first and coughed it up by allowing a TD while on offense then have to kick ball off since they haven’t played defense and risk having a TD scored on them on a run back or Hail Mary pass since you can’t kick the ball out of bounds since you will now be playing defense and game can’t end on a defensive penalty or because of a fumbled snap of course not. 
 

[playtowinthegame]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Just out of curiosity.....are you trying to be dick rather than have a conversation about the topic?  

 

That's pretty rich coming from you. You disagree and reply to me with the above. GFY

[OCCH23]

I admit I haven't read all the posts in the thread, but I have no sympathy for the loser of the coin toss.  Win in regulation and its never an issue . . .

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, CSNY said:

Why bring in a totally different sport with totally different rules. Football      You play defense stop opponents from scoring  get ball. Intercept pass run for TD win game. Return fumble for TD Cause fumble kick field goal win game Tackle ball carrier in end zone safety win game. Will  the team that had ball first and coughed it up by allowing a TD while on offense then have to kick ball off since they haven’t played defense and risk having a TD scored on them on a run back or Hail Mary pass since you can’t kick the ball out of bounds since you will now be playing defense and game can’t end on a defensive penalty or because of a fumbled snap of course not. 
 

Because in the example, the sports are similar in the sense that you play offense, THEN you play defense.  Football is the same in that regard.  Each team plays defense, and then they play offense.  I think its fair.  You don't.  Fair enough. 

[CanadaSteve]

58 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

 

That's pretty rich coming from you. You disagree and reply to me with the above. GFY

Perhaps because you came across as a dick.  So you kindly GFY as well.  

This has been F-U-N!

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, PFSIKH said:

Yeah, it is not fair, but make a play. 

It is funny the Chiefs are cool with the OT now as opposed in 2018, but I digress. 

If the Bills won the toss and more probable than not go down the field and score a TD.  Make a play Chiefs.

Each team had chances in the last two minutes to make a stand and both teams caved.  Allow a 4th and 13 for a TD.  Allow a 64 yard TD to Hill.   Allow a 6 play 75 yard drive in 49 seconds.  Allow a 3 play 44 yard drive in 13 seconds for game tying FG.  Hey Sean, how about a squib kick.

It is probably the best of a situation with no perfect solutions.

Again.....fair enough.

Personally, I would like to see each team get a possession no matter what.  At some point, a team is going to lose, no matter how you run it.  

I think this thread has run its course!

 

[CSNY]

6 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Because in the example, the sports are similar in the sense that you play offense, THEN you play defense.  Football is the same in that regard.  Each team plays defense, and then they play offense.  I think its fair.  You don't.  Fair enough. 

But in football while you are playing defense you have the opportunity to score points baseball there isn’t that same opportunity to score so I really don’t see the similarities but it was a good conversation we just disagree 

[Greg555]

I believe the stat on what leads to winning in OT.. makes the issue clear.

I think the team that wins the toss…wins the game…about 90% of the time

 

upon winning the coin toss…might as well dump Gatorade on the coach.  Why wait?

[Dunnie]

I used to like sudden death... cause it was sudden death... you really did not want OT. Win the game in regulation or let the chips fall where they may.

.... Richard Todd, Ken OBrien, Chad Pennington, Mark Sanchez, Genope, Sam Darnold ...

[playtowinthegame]

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Perhaps because you came across as a dick.

I just was stating my thoughts regarding all the knee-jerk talk in the media about the changing of the rules in OT coming off that Bills choke job. I apologize if you were offended by my comments, because that was never my intentions...but I assume you took it that way because you started the thread. 

[slimjasi]

43 minutes ago, Greg555 said:

I believe the stat on what leads to winning in OT.. makes the issue clear.

I think the team that wins the toss…wins the game…about 90% of the time

 

https://dknation.draftkings.com/platform/amp/2022/1/24/22899288/nfl-overtime-rules-coin-flip-odds-win-loss-playoffs-regular-season

[JohnnyD]

I don't care who won the game.  I also don't think how any particular game ends tied in regulation should have any bearing  when considering the "fairness" of the OT rules.  Yes, we all know that life isn't fair.  That doesn't mean that reasonable things shouldn't done to try to make it as fair as possible.  In my mind the most fair thing to do is give both teams the most equal opportunity to score.

That's why I think the best way to conduct overtime is just to give both teams the ball once at their own 25-yard line and whoever has the most points after those possessions is the winner.  I will call it the "One Possession" rule.  This is the closest scenario to the actual goal of an NFL game - which is to judge Team A's offense vs. Team B's defense in conjunction with Team B's offense vs. Team A's defense.  In the scenario that just unfolded all we found out was that the KC offense was better than the Buffalo defense.  The KC defense got off scott free.

Some people say that the defense in football can score and that is what makes it different than the extra innings in baseball analogy.  However, that argument neglects the fact in either scenario (the current rules or the proposed rule) if the defense scores, then that team wins the game.  Also, just like in a "regular" game, if your defense can stop the other team's offense and then your team scores a FG or TD you win the game.  Realistically, the "One Possession" rule is like a mini-game, but without kick-off's or punts. 

The "One Possession" rule would be the best solution and it can actually limit the amount of plays vs. a full, 10-15 minute overtime period (if that's what the NFL and the player association is worried about).  It works for college ball - I don't know why it wouldn't work just as well in the NFL.

[CanadaSteve]

3 hours ago, CSNY said:

But in football while you are playing defense you have the opportunity to score points baseball there isn’t that same opportunity to score so I really don’t see the similarities but it was a good conversation we just disagree 

[rangerous]

23 hours ago, extmenace said:

NFLPA wouldn't want that. With every additional play, the risk of injury increases. OT needs to end as quickly as possible but it would be nice if they could figure out a way to do that while giving both teams an equal opportunity. 

i'm only saying to have overtime in playoffs.  during the regular season just end the game after 4 quarters, tie or no tie.  that might result in fewer injuries because there are more overtime games in the regular season than in the playoffs.

[jamesr]

8 hours ago, slimjasi said:

 

https://dknation.draftkings.com/platform/amp/2022/1/24/22899288/nfl-overtime-rules-coin-flip-odds-win-loss-playoffs-regular-season

This article is very interesting. 

In the regular season the team winning the coin toss won 86 out of 163 games. (10 were tied). That's about 53%. Almost literally a coin flip.

In the post season the team winning the coin toss won 10 out of 11 games. That's about 91%. Seven of those ten were walk off TDs on the opening drive (63%).

I wonder why there's such a disparity? Playing to not lose in regular season could come into it a little bit, but I'd be surprised if it was that significant. 

[Butterfield]

Isn’t it ironic that the Chiefs submitted a rule change proposal that would have given both teams the opportunity to possess the ball in overtime, and the Bills voted against it?  

[Butterfield]

20 minutes ago, jamesr said:

This article is very interesting. 

In the regular season the team winning the coin toss won 86 out of 163 games. (10 were tied). That's about 53%. Almost literally a coin flip.

In the post season the team winning the coin toss won 10 out of 11 games. That's about 91%. Seven of those ten were walk off TDs on the opening drive (63%).

I wonder why there's such a disparity? Playing to not lose in regular season could come into it a little bit, but I'd be surprised if it was that significant. 

I would assume it is due to the better offenses in the playoffs.  

[jamesr]

Lol ... if the NFL had "better" OT rules.   

[playtowinthegame]

51 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Lol ... if the NFL had "better" OT rules.   

Not my NFL!

[faba]

I still like first team to score wins the game no matter what the score. The way it was before the change to now. 

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

This article is very interesting. 

In the regular season the team winning the coin toss won 86 out of 163 games. (10 were tied). That's about 53%. Almost literally a coin flip.

In the post season the team winning the coin toss won 10 out of 11 games. That's about 91%. Seven of those ten were walk off TDs on the opening drive (63%).

I wonder why there's such a disparity? Playing to not lose in regular season could come into it a little bit, but I'd be surprised if it was that significant. 

It is interesting, but keep in mind that 11 games is still a relatively small sample size. If that does hold up over larger sample sizes, perhaps it is because the playoffs tend to have the best QBs and offenses? 

In a perfect world, I'd like to see both teams get a possession. I like the idea of giving each team one possession, and if it is still tied after that, make it sudden death. 

But, at the end of the day, it's not something that I'm going to lose sleep over.

[56mehl56]

47 minutes ago, faba said:

I still like first team to score wins the game no matter what the score. The way it was before the change to now. 

Then why wait for OT to do that . First team that scores wins , gives us back a lot of time in our lives. 

[56mehl56]

46 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

It is interesting, but keep in mind that 11 games is still a relatively small sample size. If that does hold up over larger sample sizes, perhaps it is because the playoffs tend to have the best QBs and offenses? 

In a perfect world, I'd like to see both teams get a possession. I like the idea of giving each team one possession, and if it is still tied after that, make it sudden death. 

But, at the end of the day, it's not something that I'm going to lose sleep over.

None of us are because lord knows if there will ever be a day when our team is involved in that type scenario. 

[Lith]

Not sure if this was posted earlier in this thread, but Sporting News had an article yesterday where they looked at all 11 OT playoff games since the rule change in 2010 (Each team posseses ball unless team with the ball first scores TD).  10 of 11 have been won by the team winning the coin toss.  7 of the 10 ended on the opening drive.  Link to the article is below.  Only team to win after losing coin toss was the Rams who beat the Saints in the 2019 NFCCG after losing OT coin toss.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-overtime-playoff-games-history/v2ac7w5vi1xr1ufwe68uu37d8

 

[CanadaSteve]

53 minutes ago, Lith said:

Not sure if this was posted earlier in this thread, but Sporting News had an article yesterday where they looked at all 11 OT playoff games since the rule change in 2010 (Each team posseses ball unless team with the ball first scores TD).  10 of 11 have been won by the team winning the coin toss.  7 of the 10 ended on the opening drive.  Link to the article is below.  Only team to win after losing coin toss was the Rams who beat the Saints in the 2019 NFCCG after losing OT coin toss.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-overtime-playoff-games-history/v2ac7w5vi1xr1ufwe68uu37d8

 

This I think would serve as valuable information to the league.

Nobody wants the refs deciding the game.  I think there are plenty, and I am one of them, who do not want the coin toss deciding the game.

I think out of all the suggestions in this thread, I like three possessions each, total score wins.  Then I like my idea about penalty kicks after that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[greenwichjetfan]

Each team should have 1 additional possession to add to their regular season total.

If, after those two possessions, the total scores remain tied, they should proceed to a skills competition where QBs are asked to kick FGs and CBs are asked to catch passes. Best of 5 each wins. 

[Biggs]

On 1/25/2022 at 1:10 PM, CanadaSteve said:

This I think would serve as valuable information to the league.

Nobody wants the refs deciding the game.  I think there are plenty, and I am one of them, who do not want the coin toss deciding the game.

I think out of all the suggestions in this thread, I like three possessions each, total score wins.  Then I like my idea about penalty kicks after that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The coin toss doesn't decide the game.  The HC playing for a tie puts them in a 50/50 position to lose or win.  In most casses the tie can be avoided by going for 2 instead of 1.  Pushing for a TD instead of a FG and running out the clock.   

The sudden death was actually better because it would change the psychology of the coaching strategy in elimination games.  Coaches often create the tie by going for an extra point instead of 2 or setting up for a fg instead of going for a TD.  

[Alworth]

I'm going to get a bit nerdy here.

First off, the larger sample size of regular  post-rule change overtimes shows that the toss winner wins 52.9%, a number a bit inflated because in a 10 minute OT--not applicable in the playoffs--- there's a good chance that the toss winner will get more possessions.

Second, I think the extreme 9 out of 10 wins for the toss winner in playoffs is based on small sample size, not, as has been said above, defenses are more tired come playoff time.

Third, the playoff game team that goes second if the rule change talked about this week is instituted will have an advantage FAR LARGER than the team that wins the toss under the current playoff  OT rule because it can (1) tie on the second possession or (2) win outright as a function of a first possession turnover caused by its D that produces either (A) a short field, (B) a very short field, (3) a pick six or (4) a scoop and score.

It's the third point above that makes a rule change a non-starter for me.

 

 

[New York Mick]

On 1/24/2022 at 7:03 AM, Barry McCockinner said:

The rules are fine. Play some defense.

The rules suck. It’s a simple fix. Do a normal kickoff and give each team a chance with the ball until someone has a higher score no matter what the first team does. It’s asinine the way it is. If the Jets would of been the Bills this board would of had a meltdown and fans would be putting up billboards. 

[Peace Frog]

Would have. 

But still no.