Offense > Defense

[Warfish]

The Bills #1 Defense was beaten by Offense.

Offense wins in the modern NFL. 

Even the best Defense cannot defeat the best Offenses.

The Jets need to build Offense first and foremost. 

A legit weapon on Offense > anything on Defense, especially given our investment in Zach Wilson last draft.

Prove me wrong.  If the Bills can't stop the Chiefs Offense, what on earth makes you think the Jets Defense ever will?

Our only path forward is to outscore opponents, the modern NFL way to winning.

[Scott Dierking]

Totally agree, but in addition to that strong defense, you also need a defensive line that can pressure the other qb and make him make bad decisions and give him less time. What the Rams have with Donald and their defensive line gave an immobile qb like Brad very little.

YES!!! Offense is is the way to go. But the D-line that gives the other qb fits is also a very good addition to that equation. Saleh has that part right in strategy.

[section314]

30 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The Bills #1 Defense was beaten by Offense.

Offense wins in the modern NFL. 

Even the best Defense cannot defeat the best Offenses.

The Jets need to build Offense first and foremost. 

A legit weapon on Offense > anything on Defense, especially given our investment in Zach Wilson last draft.

Prove me wrong.  If the Bills can't stop the Chiefs Offense, what on earth makes you think the Jets Defense ever will?

Our only path forward is to outscore opponents, the modern NFL way to winning.

"Hi, I'm Don Coryell, and I approve of this message."?

[JustInFudge]

I think the emphasis on offense has been obvious for a long time, but the reality is, everyone is riding high off last night's game, but it was not indicative of the weekend, at all.   Teams need balance and defense is still very important. 

4 games played this weekend, 2 were low scoring defensive battles.  San Fran won a playoff Football game without scoring an offensive TD.  The Bengals and Titans scored in the teens.  And the Rams defense completely stymied Brady.  The only reason it was a game is because they kept handing them the ball in the 4th quarter and the Bucs scored 14 pts in the last 3 minutes.  They were stuck on a whopping 13 pts until the Rams started letting them back in the game.  That game was largely a blow out because of the constant pressure Brady was under.

Yes, build an offense, you need to score and it's probably the more consistent way to win but defense is still very important and can win you a game from time to time.

 

[NYJets43]

47 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The Bills #1 Defense was beaten by Offense.

Offense wins in the modern NFL. 

Even the best Defense cannot defeat the best Offenses.

The Jets need to build Offense first and foremost. 

A legit weapon on Offense > anything on Defense, especially given our investment in Zach Wilson last draft.

Prove me wrong.  If the Bills can't stop the Chiefs Offense, what on earth makes you think the Jets Defense ever will?

Our only path forward is to outscore opponents, the modern NFL way to winning.

I disagree.

According to Michael Porter the best strategies are ones that involve doing something unique that your competition can’t replicate. 
 

The Jets will never beat teams like the Chiefs and Bills by trying to match them on offense. Wilson is not going be Allen and Mahomes-those guys are a different breed. 
 

I personally think the Jets best chance to contend is to build a nasty defense that will gives these guys problems and compliment that with an Efficient offense that consistently moves the chains. 
 

The Bills have a good defense, but they don’t really have game wreckers. Mahomes struggled against them early in the year and made adjustments this round. 

[Lith]

I agree that a great offense will beat a great defense in today's NFL.  And given a choice between a great offensive playmaker and a great defensive playmaker, try to build the offense first.  Especially with a young QB.

Problem though is that this draft appears to lack offensive playmakers.  Reaching for offense in the top 10 is how you end up drafting Corey Davis at 5, or Tavon Austin at 8, or John Ross at 9.  Or Kevin White at 7.  Just because we pick an offensive player does not mean he will have an impact..  If I thought this draft has an Amari Cooper or Julio Jones or AJ Green or Pitts/Waddle/Chase from last year, then absolutlely, take the offensive playmaker.  A lot can change between now and April, but it does not appear this draft has that caliber of WR prospect.

This is why I really hope that JD gets aggressive in the trade market.  We are hearing that guys like Cooper, Metcalf, Ridley might be available in trade.  We have plenty of assets to go get one of these guys.  I don't think we can rely on this draft to get our #1, and I really don't want to be in position where we have to pass on a better prospect at another position because we are desperate for a WR.

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, NYJets43 said:

I disagree.

According to Michael Porter the best strategies are ones that involve doing something unique that your competition can’t replicate. 

There is no such thing as being unique in the NFL.

3 minutes ago, NYJets43 said:

The Jets will never beat teams like the Chiefs and Bills by trying to match them on offense. Wilson is not going be Allen and Mahomes-those guys are a different breed. 

Then Wilson should be dumped, and we should continue to search to find our Allan/Mahomes/Burrows/Herbert/Watson/etc/etc/etc. 

They're not THAT rare that we can't find one.

3 minutes ago, NYJets43 said:

I personally think the Jets best chance to contend is to build a nasty defense that will gives these guys problems and compliment that with an Efficient offense that consistently moves the chains. 

You mean what the Jets have primarily been trying to do for the last decade plus to the worst results in franchise history?

3 minutes ago, NYJets43 said:

The Bills have a good defense, but they don’t really have game wreckers. Mahomes struggled against them early in the year and made adjustments this round. 

Best Defense in the NFL.  

We're the worst Defense in the NFL right now.  "Building a nasty defense" would require a massive influx of spending (picks and FA), and we're still not going to be the Bills.  And even when we WERE the Bills, we didn't win (under Rex, where we also had a good Offense).

The Jets haven't tried to be the best at Offense since the 80's ffs.  It's long overdue that we try that aspect again, let Defense be secondary, and Offense be our focus in terms of teambuilding and priority.

[NYJets43]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

There is no such thing as being unique in the NFL.

Then Wilson should be dumped, and we should continue to search to find our Allan/Mahomes/Burrows/Herbert/Watson/etc/etc/etc. 

They're not THAT rare that we can't find one.

You mean what the Jets have primarily been trying to do for the last decade plus to the worst results in franchise history?

Best Defense in the NFL.  

We're the worst Defense in the NFL right now.  "Building a nasty defense" would require a massive influx of spending (picks and FA), and we're still not going to be the Bills.  And even when we WERE the Bills, we didn't win (under Rex, where we also had a good Offense).

The Jets haven't tried to be the best at Offense since the 80's ffs.  It's long overdue that we try that aspect again, let Defense be secondary, and Offense be our focus in terms of teambuilding and priority.

In order to execute your plan the Jets need to find a hall of fame QB. They are incredibly difficult to find. 

[Warfish]

Just now, NYJets43 said:

In order to execute your plan the Jets need to find a hall of fame QB. They are incredibly difficult to find. 

You can compete at a very high level on Offense with less than a "HOF QB".

Of the names I listed, none are HOF QB's yet.  Some will, some likely won't.

Regardless, if our QB isn't up to it, we should be cycling till we find the guy who is.

[OilfieldJet]

14 minutes ago, NYJets43 said:

I disagree.

According to Michael Porter the best strategies are ones that involve doing something unique that your competition can’t replicate. 
 

The Jets will never beat teams like the Chiefs and Bills by trying to match them on offense. Wilson is not going be Allen and Mahomes-those guys are a different breed. 
 

I personally think the Jets best chance to contend is to build a nasty defense that will gives these guys problems and compliment that with an Efficient offense that consistently moves the chains. 
 

The Bills have a good defense, but they don’t really have game wreckers. Mahomes struggled against them early in the year and made adjustments this round. 

So many things here I disagree with,

[NYJets43]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

You can compete at a very high level on Offense with less than a "HOF QB".

Of the names I listed, none are HOF QB's yet.  Some will, some likely won't.

Regardless, if our QB isn't up to it, we should be cycling till we find the guy who is.

What have they been doing Warfish?

They bring in a new QB every few years. It’s not working. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, NYJets43 said:

What have they been doing Warfish?

They bring in a new QB every few years. It’s not working. 

Bad GM's making bad choices.

Doesn't invalidate the truth of my argument that Offense > Defense. 

What it does is beg the question as to why our GM's are so constantly bad, especially at picking QB's.

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

The Bills #1 Defense was beaten by Offense.

Offense wins in the modern NFL. 

Even the best Defense cannot defeat the best Offenses.

The Jets need to build Offense first and foremost. 

A legit weapon on Offense > anything on Defense, especially given our investment in Zach Wilson last draft.

Prove me wrong.  If the Bills can't stop the Chiefs Offense, what on earth makes you think the Jets Defense ever will?

Our only path forward is to outscore opponents, the modern NFL way to winning.

What if the Rams or Niners defense stops the Chiefs offense? Does the Superbowl matter or nah?

Niners defense & special teams just beat a pretty good offense in GB. Rams defense just beat a pretty good offense in TB. Spare me the "but Brady was missing weapons" argument - he still had Mike Evans & Gronk to throw to w/Fournette in the backfield.

[HawkeyeJet]

The counter argument is that if the Chiefs had a pulse in the secondary that game doesn’t end in nearly the sensational fashion it did.  Allen’s two late TDs are on two completely wide open, uncontested throws.  Good on him for making the plays, but those last two minutes are just as much about pathetic defense as it is anything, but that doesn’t move the needle in discussion.

I hope with everything that Wilson turns out to be an elite player.  However, I’d rather build my roster like the Titans and Niners just in case he isn’t.  I’d rather the QB be pretty close to the last piece of the puzzle rather than the 1st.

[slimjasi]

I agree. The league is all about offense, and in particular, the passing game. Bring in as much talent as you can at WR/TE and continue to add depth to the line. 

Our offense can be good with a little commitment and some injury luck for a change. 

[NYJets43]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Bad GM's making bad choices.

Doesn't invalidate the truth of my argument that Offense > Defense. 

What it does is beg the question as to why our GM's are so constantly bad, especially at picking QB's.

Nope it’s just bad strategy. Your strategy is a bad one. 

It’s not just Jets GMs. It’s the fact that the NFL in general sucks at picking QBs. Stop doing it! The organization continues to set itself back because they want to fulfill your vision of having this stud QB lead a wildly explosive offense.

Just find good players and win games! I don’t need the product to look like the Chiefs. It can look like the 49ers too. 

If the Jets had used those resources to draft good players (offense and defense) instead of College QBs and instead found a viable veteran stopgap at QB, they would be much better off. 

[IndianaJet]

Saleh is going to build the SF model.  Strong up front, try to wreck havoc with your 4 D-lineman and go from there.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

The Bills #1 Defense was beaten by Offense.

Offense wins in the modern NFL. 

Even the best Defense cannot defeat the best Offenses.

The Jets need to build Offense first and foremost. 

A legit weapon on Offense > anything on Defense, especially given our investment in Zach Wilson last draft.

Prove me wrong.  If the Bills can't stop the Chiefs Offense, what on earth makes you think the Jets Defense ever will?

Our only path forward is to outscore opponents, the modern NFL way to winning.

We need a true to life #1 receiver and a big nasty TE that  can catch the ball even when the entire country knows it going to then. Period! 100% agreed. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

Pass rushers are the only thing that matter once you build a great offense.

You’ll be playing with the lead most of the time.

being able to pressure the other team’s great quarterback gives you a fighting chance at forcing a mistake.

[The Crusher]

18 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You can compete at a very high level on Offense with less than a "HOF QB".

Of the names I listed, none are HOF QB's yet.  Some will, some likely won't.

Regardless, if our QB isn't up to it, we should be cycling till we find the guy who is.

Matt Stafford says,” Hell yeah Warfish!!” 

[Warfish]

8 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

What if the Rams or Niners defense stops the Chiefs offense? Does the Superbowl matter or nah?

If the Niners/Rams and Chiefs play a 9-6 Super Bowl, get back to me and I will re-evaluate by Offense > Defense viewpoint.'

Winning score of last 10 Super Bowls:

31, 31, 13, 41, 34, 24, 28, 43, 34, 21

No one (except the Pats over the Rams) is winning a Super Bowl if they cannot score 3 TD's bare minimum, or 4-5 TD's more likely.

 

 

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, NYJets43 said:

Nope it’s just bad strategy. Your strategy is a bad one. 

 

11 minutes ago, NYJets43 said:

Just find good players and win games!

Oh, is that all?

 

[ScarletKnight89]

Agreed

And the Jets have been trying to win with defense compounded by constantly drafting defensive lineman, middle linebackers, and safeties for the last 10 plus years lol. Explains a lot. 

At least Joe Douglas has been going after the right positions in the draft so far. 

[UntouchableCrew]

18 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The counter argument is that if the Chiefs had a pulse in the secondary that game doesn’t end in nearly the sensational fashion it did.  Allen’s two late TDs are on two completely wide open, uncontested throws.

The route where Gabriel had the guy shaken out of his shoes was hilarious.

[NYJ37/12]

If you have a top five qb where more than 20 percent of your cap is committed to him, you need to be all in on offense.  If not, you need a balance or at the least a decent pass rush. Shutdown corners are worthless in this NFL

[Cyberjet]

24 minutes ago, NYJets43 said:

I disagree.

According to Michael Porter the best strategies are ones that involve doing something unique that your competition can’t replicate. 
 

The Jets will never beat teams like the Chiefs and Bills by trying to match them on offense. Wilson is not going be Allen and Mahomes-those guys are a different breed. 
 

I personally think the Jets best chance to contend is to build a nasty defense that will gives these guys problems and compliment that with an Efficient offense that consistently moves the chains. 
 

The Bills have a good defense, but they don’t really have game wreckers. Mahomes struggled against them early in the year and made adjustments this round. 

Agree. Granted the NFL is stacking the deck for more offense - however things are cyclical. 
 

Poor defensive performance and poor scheming was hard to believe last night.  That to me was the real story of the game. The last 2 minutes and OT were almost farcical. That should never  happen in the NFL where both teams not once but twice and a third time for the Bills fold like that. How many broken coverages did KC have - running into each other, wrs being left to run by defense backs uncovered, dBs falling on their asses.

if there was one lesson learned- zone coverage is bye bye. You play man to man primarily. You cannot play NFL football like last night where basically accuracy of throws was not required - just get it out there. Actually the best play and pass last night was Allen’s pass on the 2 point conversion to make it 39-36.
 

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

The back seven players on defense are a waste of money.

I don't want to hear about Sauce Gardner or Derek Stingley or Kyle Hamilton in this draft cycle. 

Cornerbacks are the biggest crypto-rug-pull in the sport today. 

And safety? We know how little they matter here. 

[Jetworks]

33 minutes ago, NYJets43 said:

What have they been doing Warfish?

They bring in a new QB every few years. It’s not working. 

Wilson clearly has the tools in toolbox, that's painfully obvious. It's a matter of having the materials for those tools, along with someone to teach him how to master using them. It's been done for Allen as we see, no reason it can't be done for Wilson, save ineptitude by those buying the materials and providing instruction, of course. 

[Greensleeves]

49 minutes ago, NYJets43 said:

I disagree.

According to Michael Porter the best strategies are ones that involve doing something unique that your competition can’t replicate. 
 

The Jets will never beat teams like the Chiefs and Bills by trying to match them on offense. Wilson is not going be Allen and Mahomes-those guys are a different breed. 
 

I personally think the Jets best chance to contend is to build a nasty defense that will gives these guys problems and compliment that with an Efficient offense that consistently moves the chains. 
 

The Bills have a good defense, but they don’t really have game wreckers. Mahomes struggled against them early in the year and made adjustments this round. 

Wilson is totally in the same mold as Allen and Mahomes talent wise. Give him weapons and try and outscore them. The Bengals just beat the Chiefs a few weeks ago. The only reason the Niners/Packers game was low scoring was due to weather. That being said, DLine can wreck a game. All premium resources should go to offense and edge. Later picks and FA can go to filing needs on D. 

[slimjasi]

30 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The counter argument is that if the Chiefs had a pulse in the secondary that game doesn’t end in nearly the sensational fashion it did.  Allen’s two late TDs are on two completely wide open, uncontested throws.  Good on him for making the plays, but those last two minutes are just as much about pathetic defense as it is anything, but that doesn’t move the needle in discussion.

I hope with everything that Wilson turns out to be an elite player.  However, I’d rather build my roster like the Titans and Niners just in case he isn’t.  I’d rather the QB be pretty close to the last piece of the puzzle rather than the 1st.

The Chiefs certainly missed Mathieu. You have to figure some of those huge plays to Davis don't happen with him in there. 

Having said that, I think Allen was coming down the field no matter what. Just too good. 

[doitny]

we might have no choice but to have a great defense. right now i dont think Wilson will be a great as Allen and Mahomes. doesnt mean we need a new QB.

look how far we went with Sanchez. Jimmy G is not a great QB. and he beat the best offense in Dallas and another great one in GB. SF is 13th in points and a win away from the SB.

the top 3 teams in points Dallas. TB, and Buffalo are out.

yes we need a great offense but we need a great Defense too.

i think its encouraging that SF the team that Saleh came from is one win away from the SB. that strategy he is trying to do here works. 

 

[Augustiniak]

34 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The counter argument is that if the Chiefs had a pulse in the secondary that game doesn’t end in nearly the sensational fashion it did.  Allen’s two late TDs are on two completely wide open, uncontested throws.  Good on him for making the plays, but those last two minutes are just as much about pathetic defense as it is anything, but that doesn’t move the needle in discussion.

I hope with everything that Wilson turns out to be an elite player.  However, I’d rather build my roster like the Titans and Niners just in case he isn’t.  I’d rather the QB be pretty close to the last piece of the puzzle rather than the 1st.

The titans pass rush kept them in the game b/c cincy’s offense is dangerous.  I do think our closest blueprint is the 49ers where we’re going to load up on front 7 guys on D now and wrs/tes in the 2nd/3rd rounds.

[Gangrene]

58 minutes ago, NYJets43 said:

The Jets will never beat teams like the Chiefs and Bills by trying to match them on offense. Wilson is not going be Allen and Mahomes-those guys are a different breed. 

I personally think the Jets best chance to contend is to build a nasty defense that will gives these guys problems and compliment that with an Efficient offense that consistently moves the chains. 

Ultimately we need to draft as well as Kansas City and Buffalo, we have not, not even close.

I agree, trying to keep up with the Bills and Chiefs, that is not happening.

I would think that having a killer defense with a run game and an OL (with Patriots-like OL depth)  protecting a healthy Zach Wilson.

Right now our defense is one of the worst in the NFL.

[GreenFish]

Per Defensive DVOA, the Bills were the number 1 defense and KC was the number 24 defense. By any measure the Bills had the top defense actually.

There was no material defense between KC’s defense and Buffalo’s defense in yesterday’s game. They could have switched defenses and the outcome likely is the same.

Jets offseason -

1) Spend all meaningful resources on offense until we can say, the offense is complete.

2) If offense is complete, patch up the defense with mid tier FA’s and a draft pick here and there.

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I think the emphasis on offense has been obvious for a long time, but the reality is, everyone is riding high off last night's game, but it was not indicative of the weekend, at all.   Teams need balance and defense is still very important. 

4 games played this weekend, 2 were low scoring defensive battles.  San Fran won a playoff Football game without scoring an offensive TD.  The Bengals and Titans scored in the teens.  And the Rams defense completely stymied Brady.  The only reason it was a game is because they kept handing them the ball in the 4th quarter and the Bucs scored 14 pts in the last 3 minutes.  They were stuck on a whopping 13 pts until the Rams started letting them back in the game.  That game was largely a blow out because of the constant pressure Brady was under.

Yes, build an offense, you need to score and it's probably the more consistent way to win but defense is still very important and can win you a game from time to time.

 

Agreed.

But I think you can get by with competence on defense.  You can have a great team with an average defense....tougher to do with an average offense.

Use premium resources on pass rush - and then all offense.  Do your best to build the best D you can but use the bulk of premium cap and picks on O...

I'm really just not sure how much difference good corners, safeties and LB's can make these days.