Big Ben Announces Retirement

[JohnnyLV]

41 minutes ago, JTJet said:

It's not omitted at all. In fact its brought up quite a bit, just not by ESPN. 

As unpopular as it may be, why SHOULD they be mentioned?

One was settled and theres a 50/50 possibility he paid to get a false accuser to shut up, which is what lawyers suggest quite often. 

The other never had charges pressed and again was a 50/50 possiblity. He said/she said. 

And while some people would immediately jump to "where there's smoke, theres fire", I would argue that being a superstar athlete makes you far more susceptible to a false accusation 

Rothlesburger gets more flak than Peyton Manning or Kobe Bryant, and there was farrrrrrrrrr more evidence something happened with those men, but they are treated like saints. 

So in your mind 3 50/50 accusations (one by the way which lead to the firing of a police officer for covering it up) equates to "nothing to see here"?

And I fricking hate the "superstars are more susceptible to false accusations" BS. There are literally thousands and thousands of football players and a handful that have been accused of things like this. So accusations are amazingly rare, maybe even rarer than accusations per capita among non-football players but because they are famous we are supposed to assume it is more likely that the girl is just a money grubbing devious whore than there is something to the accusation?

Even more, these people are famous sometimes super famous so they are probably routinely in situations where woman are more than willing to have one night stands or party, and yet the number of accusations is exceedingly rare. Really sort of blows the air out of the false accusation BS rationalization.

And then Watson has like 30 women accusing him of the same behavior, not all of whom are looking for fame or money and yet many believe that they are just money grubbing sluts too picking on poor old innocent Watson.

Acceptance and ignoring criminal behavior of famous people is one of the serious downsides of fandom.  And Manning and Bryant being more obviously guilty has nothing to do with Rapelisberger or Watson.

[Hal N of Provo]

 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

 

When I say nobody cares, I meant the people in the NFL.  Fans can care but we have no say.  The NFL continued to employ and celebrate Big Ben and he will be a first ballot HOF'er because they dont care. 

 

It's a business.  I know you know that.

Still a criminal justice problem.  He was never found guilty of a crime.  Had he been, things would likely have been different.

Accusations =/= Convictions.  We may not like uncertainty, we may have strong opinions on what we think happened, but we fans will never know.  That is why we have courts and cops, to prove criminal acts beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Hal N of Provo]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's a business.  I know you know that.

Still a criminal justice problem.  He was never found guilty of a crime.  Had he been, things would likely have been different.

Accusations =/= Convictions.  We may not like uncertainty, we may have strong opinions on what we think happened, but we fans will never know.  That is why we have courts and cops, to prove criminal acts beyond a reasonable doubt.

The investigation smells bad so he doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt. 

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's a business.  I know you know that.

Still a criminal justice problem.  He was never found guilty of a crime.  Had he been, things would likely have been different.

Accusations =/= Convictions.  We may not like uncertainty, we may have strong opinions on what we think happened, but we fans will never know.  That is why we have courts and cops, to prove criminal acts beyond a reasonable doubt.

Hollywood is a business, they dont tolerate it.  I work in business, this wouldnt be tolerated.

The only thing I can say is, read the story.  It was a massive cover up and he settled out of court because it was obvious and he didnt want to go to jail.  

[JTJet]

4 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

So in your mind 3 50/50 accusations (one by the way which lead to the firing of a police officer for covering it up) equates to "nothing to see here"?

And I fricking hate the "superstars are more susceptible to false accusations" BS. There are literally thousands and thousands of football players and a handful that have been accused of things like this. So accusations are amazingly rare, maybe even rarer than accusations per capita among non-football players but because they are famous we are supposed to assume it is more likely that the girl is just a money grubbing devious whore than there is something to the accusation?

Even more, these people are famous sometimes super famous so they are probably routinely in situations where woman are more than willing to have one night stands or party, and yet the number of accusations is exceedingly rare. Really sort of blows the air out of the false accusation BS rationalization.

And then Watson has like 30 women accusing him of the same behavior, not all of whom are looking for fame or money and yet many believe that they are just money grubbing sluts too picking on poor old innocent Watson.

Acceptance and ignoring criminal behavior of famous people is one of the serious downsides of fandom.  And Manning and Bryant being more obviously guilty has nothing to do with Rapelisberger or Watson.

Leave it to someone to live in a black and white world, and take it to the extreme.

I never said he did OR did not do it.

I never once said nor insinuated " nothing to see here" either , simply that these scenarios are "he said/she said", and no matter what white knight horse you ride in on, you dont know what happened in the situations other than what the accusers have said. As uncomfortable as it is, theres actually a chance that these very well were all false accusations. It happens, and it happens a LOT more than you will ever care to read about it. 

And it's funny you try to dismiss Manning and Bryant saying they have nothing to do with it, then in the same breath try to throw in Watson's situation for good measure. 

Yes Manning and Bryant being more obviously guilty has a LOT to do with what my overall point was, which was why should the media be including these accusations in their retrospective of his career, especially when they deify the other two men? 

But if you took a minute to read and comprehend what I said instead of flying off the handle, you would get that. 

[Sperm Edwards]

14 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

 

When I say nobody cares, I meant the people in the NFL.  Fans can care but we have no say.  The NFL continued to employ and celebrate Big Ben and he will be a first ballot HOF'er because they dont care. 

 

I think they just hid behind the convenient reality that nothing was ever proven. No smoking gun, and other witnesses were "convinced" to be silent.

Yeah there's always the possibility that it was an extortion scam, and the woman knew something he'd consider embarrassing (he was also doing a dude - hey, NFL locker rooms from a decade ago - or Marv Albert wearing panties, Rex's foot fetish, etc.). Except none of those are crimes, and anyway no one really believes that. 

What was so bizarre was the 6 (then reduced to 4) game suspension. They don't suspend you for having potentially-embarrassing (but 100% legal) sex stuff leaked out. They either thought he was guilty of rape or he wasn't.

If they really believed he was not guilty, and it was just hush money to save his embarrassment, then why suspend him for even 1 play? A month or so is a ridiculous punishment for merely exercising one's legal right to poor judgment and putting himself into a position where he could be extorted. 

Except they did give him a significant suspension (even if it's not significant enough to match the [alleged] crime). He wasn't accused of playfully slapping this girl in the ass while drunk in a bar (a galaxy of difference between that and rape). Therefore you have to believe Goodell believed at least one of the two women. 

So...they all knew.

[Peace Frog]

3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Hollywood is a business, they dont tolerate it.  I work in business, this wouldnt be tolerated.

The only thing I can say is, read the story.  It was a massive cover up and he settled out of court because it was obvious and he didnt want to go to jail.  

Yeah, it's pretty obvious what happened, if you care to open your eyes.  Not all of these things get sorted out in court.  Kobe Bryant famously escaped prosecution.

[JTJet]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think they just hid behind the convenient reality that nothing was ever proven. No smoking gun, and other witnesses were "convinced" to be silent.

Yeah there's always the possibility that it was an extortion scam, and the woman knew something he'd consider embarrassing (he was also doing a dude - hey, NFL locker rooms from a decade ago - or Marv Albert wearing panties, Rex's foot fetish, etc.). Except none of those are crimes, and anyway no one really believes that. 

What was so bizarre was the 6 (then reduced to 4) game suspension. They don't suspend you for having potentially-embarrassing (but 100% legal) sex stuff leaked out. They either thought he was guilty of rape or he wasn't.

If they really believed he was not guilty, and it was just hush money to save his embarrassment, then why suspend him for even 1 play? A month or so is a ridiculous punishment for merely exercising one's legal right to poor judgment and putting himself into a position where he could be extorted. 

Except they did give him a significant suspension (even if it's not significant enough to match the [alleged] crime). He wasn't accused of playfully slapping this girl in the ass while drunk in a bar (a galaxy of difference between that and rape). Therefore you have to believe Goodell believed at least one of the two women. 

So...they all knew.

This is teeming with assumptions. 

If the NFL has proven anything of the years, it's that it will suspend or NOT suspend players based off nothing but PR.

[Origen]

It was a motorcycle that came closer to ending his career than touching any girls.

[Wit]

55 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Lol, he is a rapist. Fook this guy. Everyone looks the other way because he is good at throwing a football. Glad he is gone, no respect for the loser. And in my opinion rape is not really a "he's reformed or "gets a second chance" thing

[Sarge4Tide]

I wish those bast*ards 50 years worth of pain trying to find another QB

 

[Warfish]

35 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Hollywood is a business, they dont tolerate it.  I work in business, this wouldnt be tolerated.

The only thing I can say is, read the story.  It was a massive cover up and he settled out of court because it was obvious and he didnt want to go to jail.  

I think you're being very naïve if you think it hasn't long been tolerated in both Hollywood and Business. 

Less so today than in the past, admittedly, since those horrible "woke" people made it an issue, but there are alot of accused folks still getting work in both areas.

Ultimately, I think you're missing the point.  I'm not a Big Ben defender in any way, and I agree, I think he did it. 

If you're angry a rapist got away with it, and remains famous, the issue is a criminal justice system issue.  Period.

 

[Larz]

My god what am attention whore. When is the parade?

[JTJet]

56 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Hollywood is a business, they dont tolerate it. 

Harvey Weisntein single handedly assaulted more women than every NFL player in history combined. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

2 hours ago, JTJet said:

It's not omitted at all. In fact its brought up quite a bit, just not by ESPN. 

As unpopular as it may be, why SHOULD they be mentioned?

One was settled and theres a 50/50 possibility he paid to get a false accuser to shut up, which is what lawyers suggest quite often. 

The other never had charges pressed and again was a 50/50 possiblity. He said/she said. 

And while some people would immediately jump to "where there's smoke, theres fire", I would argue that being a superstar athlete makes you far more susceptible to a false accusation 

Rothlesburger gets more flak than Peyton Manning or Kobe Bryant, and there was farrrrrrrrrr more evidence something happened with those men, but they are treated like saints. 

Who did Peyton shtoop ?

[Barry McCockinner]

https://www.theonion.com/pittsburgh-honors-ben-roethlisberger-with-commemorative-1848433164

[section314]

14 minutes ago, Sarge4Tide said:

I wish those bast*ards 50 years worth of pain trying to find another QB

 

The scary thing is Sarge, they'll stick at #20 Draft, Pickett, Willis or whomever and they will win another 2-3 Superbowls.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

58 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Marv Albert wearing panties,

[JTJet]

1 minute ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

Who did Peyton shtoop ?

He stuck his balls and rod into the face of an athletic trainer at UT. 

Manning family settlement. 

Story go bye bye. 

[jeremy2020]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think they just hid behind the convenient reality that nothing was ever proven. No smoking gun, and other witnesses were "convinced" to be silent.

Yeah there's always the possibility that it was an extortion scam, and the woman knew something he'd consider embarrassing (he was also doing a dude - hey, NFL locker rooms from a decade ago - or Marv Albert wearing panties, Rex's foot fetish, etc.). Except none of those are crimes, and anyway no one really believes that. 

What was so bizarre was the 6 (then reduced to 4) game suspension. They don't suspend you for having potentially-embarrassing (but 100% legal) sex stuff leaked out. They either thought he was guilty of rape or he wasn't.

If they really believed he was not guilty, and it was just hush money to save his embarrassment, then why suspend him for even 1 play? A month or so is a ridiculous punishment for merely exercising one's legal right to poor judgment and putting himself into a position where he could be extorted. 

Except they did give him a significant suspension (even if it's not significant enough to match the [alleged] crime). He wasn't accused of playfully slapping this girl in the ass while drunk in a bar (a galaxy of difference between that and rape). Therefore you have to believe Goodell believed at least one of the two women. 

So...they all knew.

I don't want my comment to be taken as my opinion on whether he was guilty or not, but the NFL has made it clear that they will suspend players who are 'innocent' for putting themselves in the position to have it happen ie "Don't hang out with people who do drugs" because if they get pulled over with heroin in the car even though you had no idea.. you will be suspended even if you end up with no criminal charges in the end. 

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, section314 said:

The scary thing is Sarge, they'll stick at #20 Draft, Pickett, Willis or whomever and they will win another 2-3 Superbowls.

I get an odd feeling Pickett, in the right spot, could be quite good.

[Origen]

33 minutes ago, Sarge4Tide said:

I wish those bast*ards 50 years worth of pain trying to find another QB

 

Send them back to the Tommy Maddox wilderness

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

This is teeming with assumptions. 

If the NFL has proven anything of the years, it's that it will suspend or NOT suspend players based off nothing but PR.

Well, I assume he raped her, yeah. If they truly thought he didn't do anything, they aren't handing down that initial suspension of 6 games. Not to a 2x super bowl winning QB, which he already was when his suspension was handed down (~2 years before the case settled).

The times when they do that, in the absence of a court conviction or admission of guilt or overtly breaking team/league rules that the player agreed to adhere to (PED/cheating, other positive substance test), when a potential crime is involved, is when everyone knows the guy did it. This one throwing his woman down a flight of stairs or just flat-out popping her (even if pregnant ffs); that one disciplining his young son by beating him with a tree branch enough to leave visible marks on the kid; another for DUI even if it's before an official court date because they have the BAC report as proof enough.

Just saying, when it's a nondescript "conduct detrimental to the league [or team]" that's not typically someone being accused of rape (particularly if they don't really think he did it). It's more like too big of an outburst, not showing up, calling out his coaches or the refs or the league, etc.

The only time I could see the league suspending someone - without his (a) breaking rules, or (b) everyone knows he committed a serious crime - is if it was a public embarrassment to the league. Like say if a white player started dropping n-bombs on twitter (or to another player on the field). Yeah it's legal to do that, but the league's not going to turn a blind eye to it because if they do it's tacit approval (or anyway, it'd be perceived as such). 

Even as ridiculous as the league is at times, they don't suspend someone being accused of rape if they really thing it's a bunch of bull***t, let alone a star, 2x super bowl champ QB.

[section314]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I get an odd feeling Pickett, in the right spot, could be quite good.

I could see the Colts. They will go nowhere with Wentz. Good Oline, great RB and coach. Or, dare I say, your local team, that still has no name.?

[Sperm Edwards]

12 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

I don't want my comment to be taken as my opinion on whether he was guilty or not, but the NFL has made it clear that they will suspend players who are 'innocent' for putting themselves in the position to have it happen ie "Don't hang out with people who do drugs" because if they get pulled over with heroin in the car even though you had no idea.. you will be suspended even if you end up with no criminal charges in the end. 

Rape isn't being a passenger in a car, where the driver was doing something wrong (i.e. guilt by association). This is guilt by being guilty -- or at least the league truly believed he was guilty.

Suspending him says they think he did it. That's not good PR for the league, nor is suspending him for just 4-6 games for such an evil act.

We'll see what happens with Watson. 

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, section314 said:

I could see the Colts. They will go nowhere with Wentz. Good Oline, great RB and coach. Or, dare I say, your local team, that still has no name.?

Are you besmirching the QB's of my new 2nd favorite team, the DC Commies? 

By the way, D.C. Fans/Sports Media is a perfect example of the sillyness of fans, as they constantly think Heinike (or however it's spelled) is "as good" as guys like Wentz and others.  Wentz may be meh, but Heinike is trash, lol.

[jeremy2020]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Rape isn't being a passenger in a car, where the driver was doing something wrong (i.e. guilt by association). This is guilt by being guilty -- or at least the league truly believed he was guilty.

Suspending him says they think he did it. That's not good PR for the league, nor is suspending him for just 4-6 games for such an evil act.

We'll see what happens with Watson. 

I'm not commenting on this specific situation. I used a different situation as an example for that purpose. The NFL doesn't care about actual guilt. They will punish a player for putting themselves in the position to be perceived as guilty.  I'm just pointing out the NFL has said that players simply being putting themselves in a position to be guilty and paying off the accuser(s) won't necessarily save them from suspension. 

 

(I think he's guilty as hell and the NFL personnel thought he was guilty)

[JustInFudge]

42 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I think you're being very naïve if you think it hasn't long been tolerated in both Hollywood and Business. 

Less so today than in the past, admittedly, since those horrible "woke" people made it an issue, but there are alot of accused folks still getting work in both areas.

Ultimately, I think you're missing the point.  I'm not a Big Ben defender in any way, and I agree, I think he did it. 

If you're angry a rapist got away with it, and remains famous, the issue is a criminal justice system issue.  Period.

 

I honestly have no idea where you're taking this, and I'm not missing any point.  I'm making MY point.  lol 

To recap: 

Big Ben is serial rapist piece of sh*t human, and the NFL is a disgusting corrupt filthy organization that doesnt give a **** about morality.  I brought this up because it's a conversation happening in congruence with the "will a team sign Watson" conversation, which I'm adamant will happen because the NFL doesnt give a ****.

I dont really care to have a conversation about a judicial system, that he avoided by settling because he was guilty as ****.

 

[JustInFudge]

39 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Harvey Weisntein single handedly assaulted more women than every NFL player in history combined. 

So, it's game on to rape women just as long as your dont surpass the number of Weinstien victims???

holy sh*t man

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

I honestly have no idea where you're taking this, and I'm not missing any point.  I'm making MY point.  lol 

To recap: 

Big Ben is serial rapist piece of sh*t human, and the NFL is a disgusting corrupt filthy organization that doesnt give a **** about morality.  I brought this up because it's a conversation happening in congruence with the "will a team sign Watson" conversation, which I'm adamant will happen because the NFL doesnt give a ****.

I dont really care to have a conversation about a judicial system, that he avoided by settling because he was guilty as ****.

 

No worries, rant on if it pleases you.  /shrug

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

So, it's game on to rape women just as long as your dont surpass the number of Weinstien victims???

holy sh*t man

1. Says "Hollywood is a business, they dont tolerate it.."

2. Has to have it pointed out to him that one of the biggest mass rapists was a major business leader in Hollywood.

3. Misses the point completely, in turn accuses JT of being cool with rape.

Dude.....step away from the keyboard man. 

For all our sake.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

1. Says "Hollywood is a business, they dont tolerate it.."

2. Has to have it pointed out to him that one of the biggest mass rapists was a major business leader in Hollywood.

3. Misses the point completely, in turn accuses JT of being cool with rape.

Dude.....step away from the keyboard man. 

For all our sake.

Here is a fun question for you, I'd love to hear your answer:

Where is Harvey Weinstein located right now while the NFL is getting measurements for Big Ben's gold jacket?

 

 

[JohnnyLV]

24 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Leave it to someone to live in a black and white world, and take it to the extreme.

I never said he did OR did not do it.

I never once said nor insinuated " nothing to see here" either , simply that these scenarios are "he said/she said", and no matter what white knight horse you ride in on, you dont know what happened in the situations other than what the accusers have said. As uncomfortable as it is, theres actually a chance that these very well were all false accusations. It happens, and it happens a LOT more than you will ever care to read about it. 

And it's funny you try to dismiss Manning and Bryant saying they have nothing to do with it, then in the same breath try to throw in Watson's situation for good measure. 

Yes Manning and Bryant being more obviously guilty has a LOT to do with what my overall point was, which was why should the media be including these accusations in their retrospective of his career, especially when they deify the other two men? 

But if you took a minute to read and comprehend what I said instead of flying off the handle, you would get that. 

I am not in a black and white world. The reality is that the NFL by their own agreement with the NFLPA has agreed that the burden of proof in personal conduct situations is NOT guilty, but "more LIKELY than not" to have committed the crime. 

And the Watson situation is NOT a he said/she said situation. That would be true in a one off situation. But it's not. It is 22 separate women accusing of him formally, and several others that have corroborated the accounts that are not seeking anything or filing a lawsuit.

Watson has access to free massages whenever he wants them, yet has admitted he seeks out Instagram massage girls and says any sexual activity was " consensual"

If you want to tell them that it is more likely that all of the accusers are fabricating a story (because it happens a LOT more than I think) than the evidence pointing to a clearly identifiable pattern than you are just being willfully obtuse.

 

There is no question that his behavior falls easily into the more likely than not category. And also any settlement should be viewed by the NFL as admission of guilt.

[JTJet]

21 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

So, it's game on to rape women just as long as your dont surpass the number of Weinstien victims???

holy sh*t man

Jesus. 

Yes... THATS what I typed ?

You said Hollywood would never tolerate it. Not only HAVE they tolerated it, they have actively covered it up way more than the NFL could ever hope to dream. 

Hollywood has been notoriously rampant with sexual assault since the lights when on in Tinsel town man.