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Key Distinction Between Zach and Sam going into Year 2


johnnysd
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I'm not convinced that Sam Darnold was "ruined." It seems more likely that he was flawed coming in and was never able to correct/overcome those flaws. 

However, I do agree that staying in the same system with the same coaching staff is probably a significant advantage compared to starting over in year 2. 

Zach Wilson is also flawed, but should be given the same chance to correct his flaws that Sam Darnold was given. 

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Meanwhile Sam is getting ANOTHER new offense to learn. I think that will be 4 in 5 years for him. Bates, Gase, Brady, and now mcadoo. Only time he went into a year knowing a system was year 2 of Gase and he regressed. Yikes. 

i think panthers will do everything they can to find alternative to darnold - in spite of picking up his 5th year option - tepper is both demanding and impatient and will no doubt be driving this process - if ( and it’s a big if) someone is willing to meet houston’s demands this could be a watson destination


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1 hour ago, section314 said:

Good post. John Mara said in the press conference yesterday that they have done everything they could for the last three years to ruin Jones.

They spent a lot of money in FA on offense and drafted Andrew Thomas and Hernandez to protect him.  I think that comment was a valiant yet poor attempt to deflect blame from how bad jones is and the first of many pre draft smoke screens

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1 hour ago, Jetlife33 said:

Meanwhile Sam is getting ANOTHER new offense to learn. I think that will be 4 in 5 years for him. Bates, Gase, Brady, and now mcadoo. Only time he went into a year knowing a system was year 2 of Gase and he regressed. Yikes. 

There is no offensive system that could ever be created where Sam Darnold would become magically good.

And part of the reason Darnold constantly is cycling through systems is because he has this nasty little habit of getting coaches fired because of his own suckage.  

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2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

They spent a lot of money in FA on offense and drafted Andrew Thomas and Hernandez to protect him.  I think that comment was a valiant yet poor attempt to deflect blame from how bad jones is and the first of many pre draft smoke screens

With the draft, everything is possible.

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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Well said.  It's often overlooked, but I agree, consistency is very important to a young players development.  That person in his ear being the same consistent voice, is crucial.  

The other factor I would also add is, it's also year 2 for everyone else in the system, including the 2nd year of the OC.  There is a good chance, everyone gets better with more comfort after 2 years.  Not to mention you hope to make some upgrades to the personnel. 

 

Davante Adams GIF by The Undroppables

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1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Are you kidding?  There were tons of people saying we need to fire these 2 and that they were clueless.

Based on the responses in this thread, Im getting a good felling about Jet fans coming around to whats going on here and how there is a lot to be excited about.  We got through the most painful part of this process, year 1.

Now we are going to build on what we started, coaches and players will have a year of experience under their belt etc.

This is the most exciting time to be a Jets fan since 2011 and the best position we have been in since Parcells was here.

The sky is the limit.  Just be patient as there is going to be one more year of a rebuilding type season to get through.  Not as bad as this year, but a 7-9 win type season.

Jet fans just need to not freak out that we arent going to sign the high priced, big named free agents.  Thats not what you do in year 2 of a rebuild when your goal is long term success.

Are you talking about people on this forum?  lol.

Did any knowledgeable expert say that they needed to be fired?  No.

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It's all part of JD's big plan.  He wanted his own "guys" (including the QB position) going forward and notice no coaches have been let go...the only bodies leaving Florham Park are players that don't fit the big plan.  We all better hope this works because if it doesn't, we are back to square one once again and personally speaking, my square one's with this team are coming to a close.

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Fire Ulbrich now!

If the defense glows with a new DC, keep them all; if the D sucks instead, fire Saleh, new DC. Promote LaFleur only if the offense makes good progress; otherwise fire LaFleur and Joe Douglas as well. 

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3 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Well said.  It's often overlooked, but I agree, consistency is very important to a young players development.  That person in his ear being the same consistent voice, is crucial.  

The other factor I would also add is, it's also year 2 for everyone else in the system, including the 2nd year of the OC.  There is a good chance, everyone gets better with more comfort after 2 years.  Not to mention you hope to make some upgrades to the personnel. 

 

Especially on the OL, where continuity and familiarity is critical in any system but particularly in a Shanahan zone blocking system

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I agree with the post.  It is very important to have that stability.

But, that is why I think you should almost always hire an offensive minded head coach.  If you have a defensive minded head coach and the qb plays well, the offensive coordinator and qb coach end up getting poached and the qb ends up starting over.  

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16 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

I agree with the post.  It is very important to have that stability.

But, that is why I think you should almost always hire an offensive minded head coach.  If you have a defensive minded head coach and the qb plays well, the offensive coordinator and qb coach end up getting poached and the qb ends up starting over.  

If you're concerned that the Jets offense is going to be so awesome and that Zach Wilson will be so elite that teams will be trying to hire Mike LaFleur as a Head Coach then I tell you what, that's a GREAT problem to have.  With the Jets it's usually the opposite which is true.  They have Head Coaches that get relegated back to being coordinators (ex. Todd Bowles) or out of the league (ex. Adam Gase).  I honestly can't remember the last time the Jets had coordinators so good they were poached to become Head Coaches.  It was probably the Parcells/Belichick days.

Look, it's important for the Jets to be grooming someone behind Mike LaFleur, finding that next disciple of the Shanahan system.  Saleh has seen how this works first-hand.  He's worked through several organizations including the Jaguars, Seahawks and 49ers.  He's close with the LaFleur brothers and we've seen the Shanahan tree spread all over the league.  Remember, Matt LaFleur, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan all came out of Mike Shanahan's Washington staff from 2013.

Just watching Matt LaFleur talk about Rodgers and offense with McVay and Saleh is fun.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

The Jets get rightfully criticized, but they really deserve praise for hiring John Beck in the creative way to circumvent the offseason rules to allow him to continue working with him. With the Knapp tragedy throwing a curveball, they could have easily just been satisfied with Cavanaugh, but invested in the coaching support to have made a difference.  And while it should have been an offseason move, getting an actual veteran QB in the room who has been successful in the NFL showed they were serious about giving Zach resources.

Sam never worked hard enough to get better. Being an year 4 pro and still having the same bad footwork makes me feel compelled to say that. Accuracy and quick decision-making and reading defenses may be less coachable to a degree, but having bad mechanics 4 years into an NFL program with starting qb reps is inexcusable and that's squarely on him.

This is a big offseason for the Jets, if Zach takes a step forward and we have another foundational offseason, I'll actually start expecting wins next year for the first time in about a decade.

 

 

I'm not sure about that part. I think his footwork is good at times, but he just freaks out with any hint of pressure and the footwork goes to poop. I believe the ability to stay calm in a congested pocket is innate and can't be developed. 

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7 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I'm not sure about that part. I think his footwork is good at times, but he just freaks out with any hint of pressure and the footwork goes to poop. I believe the ability to stay calm in a congested pocket is innate and can't be developed. 

Yeah that may have been a problem. Personally I took it as him not being able to get muscle memory down. His footwork seemed to be bad week 1 of a new season without having faced pressure yet, but he had spent months with guru Palmer beforehand. Saw the same thing in this throwing motion, especially on deep balls. Nothing ever looked fluid and consistent. Pressure is probably a factor too as you said, but it's possibly some element of both. 

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4 hours ago, FootballLove said:

I get the feeling our GM and coaches love our players and will encourage them and support them 100%. And for that matter, our players seem to really like their coaches, starting with Saleh. No hint of locker room mutiny.  

I’m not certain that applies to Mims. 

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5 hours ago, peebag said:

no one ever said that.

where were you all season. after every loss they wanted them fired.

the best was after the Flacco trade. some people here went ballistic. it was actually very funny to watch grown men lose their minds over trading a 6th rd pick

 

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1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

If you're concerned that the Jets offense is going to be so awesome and that Zach Wilson will be so elite that teams will be trying to hire Mike LaFleur as a Head Coach then I tell you what, that's a GREAT problem to have.  With the Jets it's usually the opposite which is true.  They have Head Coaches that get relegated back to being coordinators (ex. Todd Bowles) or out of the league (ex. Adam Gase).  I honestly can't remember the last time the Jets had coordinators so good they were poached to become Head Coaches.  It was probably the Parcells/Belichick days.

Look, it's important for the Jets to be grooming someone behind Mike LaFleur, finding that next disciple of the Shanahan system.  Saleh has seen how this works first-hand.  He's worked through several organizations including the Jaguars, Seahawks and 49ers.  He's close with the LaFleur brothers and we've seen the Shanahan tree spread all over the league.  Remember, Matt LaFleur, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan all came out of Mike Shanahan's Washington staff from 2013.

Just watching Matt LaFleur talk about Rodgers and offense with McVay and Saleh is fun.

 

 

 

If you aren’t planning to be good, you are planning to be bad.  

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6 hours ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

In other words, no excuses right?!

No excuses for what though?  

My thought is no excuses for performing better, looking more comfortable, and making a big jump in year 2. My point is we need to see a jump in improvement. I think consistent winning is a couple of years away.

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2 hours ago, Cut Jet Penalty Makers said:

I get the sense ZW has some work to do regarding his standing in the eyes of some of his teammates...there have been reports of that...some of that may be because of the rookie status this year and may dissipate going forward...if it's otherwise then that's a problem. 

Just curious about what reports have come out. He was voted a team captain, and what I've heard from teammates reflects their confidence in him.

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8 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yes they did

We need some historians…

first mentions of Zach being a bust by the media was after a bad scrimige (oh other people are saying it, but it’s just so early - still put it in print lol) - after killing it most days in camp.  

Booed the first 2 home games. 
 

Probably any thread the week after the Patriots games would cover JN well lol. 

i have the feeling this will all be denied in not too distant future lol

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4 hours ago, Cut Jet Penalty Makers said:

I get the sense ZW has some work to do regarding his standing in the eyes of some of his teammates...there have been reports of that...some of that may be because of the rookie status this year and may dissipate going forward...if it's otherwise then that's a problem. 

No one said this

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8 hours ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

It's all part of JD's big plan.  He wanted his own "guys" (including the QB position) going forward and notice no coaches have been let go...the only bodies leaving Florham Park are players that don't fit the big plan.  We all better hope this works because if it doesn't, we are back to square one once again and personally speaking, my square one's with this team are coming to a close.

JD and Saleh have been part of extremely successful rebuilds before.
 

They are often mocked by some for their plans and time lines but they didn’t pull them out of a hat. 

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