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Key Distinction Between Zach and Sam going into Year 2


johnnysd
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16 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I'm not convinced that Sam Darnold was "ruined." It seems more likely that he was flawed coming in and was never able to correct/overcome those flaws. 

However, I do agree that staying in the same system with the same coaching staff is probably a significant advantage compared to starting over in year 2. 

Zach Wilson is also flawed, but should be given the same chance to correct his flaws that Sam Darnold was given. 

I believe ZW, while a rook had a lot to learn. Not sure how flawed he was coming out because he sure didn't look it in OTA's and Preseason. I think what flawed him was finally getting the real speed of the NFL, and the fact that the OL couldn't block for the first 5 games. Getting knocked on your ass on almost every play will tend to do that to you. But I agree as most everyone else, being in the same system should improve his chances to fix his mistakes. First of which should be to stop running 20 yards backwards when feeling pressure.

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18 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

I think it's a tad early to say we don't have a clear plan to develop Zach.  They had Knapp, he died, they got Cavanaugh then brought in Beck, drafted a massive OG, Moore and Carter and hopefully they load up on offensive talent this year.

I'll give JD/Saleh/Lafleur another year before I say they have no clear plan.  Besides, no contact in offseason so maybe Beck being a free agent coach is part of the plan.  

Having a guy who may be on staff next year (part of why they were non committal to it being a permanent position is because he would then not be able to work with Zach in the offseason).  Since he was just a season rental coach he can help zach all year long.  Zach gets tailored coaching from a guy that was on staff that now knows the system, has the playbook, understands what the coaches want.  On paper it really should help Zach at minimum have a much better understanding of how to play in this system coming into year 2. 

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18 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

I think it's a tad early to say we don't have a clear plan to develop Zach.  They had Knapp, he died, they got Cavanaugh then brought in Beck, drafted a massive OG, Moore and Carter and hopefully they load up on offensive talent this year.

I'll give JD/Saleh/Lafleur another year before I say they have no clear plan.  Besides, no contact in offseason so maybe Beck being a free agent coach is part of the plan.  

 

I wasn't referring to Saleh's staff. I meant the teams dumping their coaching staff one year after drafting a QB. 

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19 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I do not see this being mentioned much, but Zach goes into year 2 with the same system and same coaches. This is huge. HUGE

NFL teams keep making the same mistake:

They draft a QB, team struggles, then they fire the head coach and then the high draft pick has to go into Season 2 getting used to new coaches, new schemes, new players, and especially new terminology and new QB coaches.

So whatever strides they made are reset, and instead of having a productive offseason and just building on what they know, they have to relearn everything.

And frankly it ruins QB prospects.

It happened with Sam. It happened with Daniel Jones and now he is in same situation but trying to save his career. 

Next year both Fields and Lawrence will be in this situation.

David Mills who to me might have been the most impressive rookie QB is in this situation and as a lower round pick may not be given a 2nd year chance.

But Zach has none of these burdens. He can work with Beck all offseason who was part of the Jets staff, he does not need to learn new terminology or playbooks, he has the same coaches.... He can just focus on building on what he learned and perfecting it.

People used to say that the biggest jump year to year for a football player was Year 1 to 2. But so many QBs now are being robbed of that.

It is a good reason to be really excited for the development of Zach. He has the perfect situation to build on all the improvement he showed at the end of the season.

 

 

 

Here is the biggest dofference from year 1 to year 2 between the 2

200.gif

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22 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

 

I wasn't referring to Saleh's staff. I meant the teams dumping their coaching staff one year after drafting a QB. 

What other coaching staffs have done in the past is irrelevant. Mistakes made by Bruce Coslett or Shotty have no impact on the development of Zach Wilson. 

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2 hours ago, Cut Jet Penalty Makers said:

SNY post game show.

Not the media that’s around the players everyday

They say he’s well liked.

‘As do all the players who talk about him and voted him captain

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3 hours ago, Cut Jet Penalty Makers said:

You're not paying attention...it was said on the SNY postgame show.

 

3 hours ago, Cut Jet Penalty Makers said:

SNY post game show.

Willie Colon was pressed for details on this - he had nothing. 

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18 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I'm not convinced that Sam Darnold was "ruined." It seems more likely that he was flawed coming in and was never able to correct/overcome those flaws. 

However, I do agree that staying in the same system with the same coaching staff is probably a significant advantage compared to starting over in year 2. 

Zach Wilson is also flawed, but should be given the same chance to correct his flaws that Sam Darnold was given. 

I'm total opposite. I completely believe he was ruined. Whenever I go back and watch a game from his rookie year, he looks like a completely different QB then he does now. If he stuck with Jeremy Bates for a few years, I think he would've progressed nicely. 

It's hard for any QB to survive being not supported at all by your GM and coaching staff being changed every other year. 

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1 minute ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I'm total opposite. I completely believe he was ruined. Whenever I go back and watch a game from his rookie year, he looks like a completely different QB then he does now. If he stuck with Jeremy Bates for a few years, I think he would've progressed nicely. 

It's hard for any QB to survive being not supported at all by your GM and coaching staff being changed every other year. 

I would buy this if he was better than he was this pasty year in Carolina.

The truth is that he still has the same fundamental flaws he exhibited during his second year at USC. 

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1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

I would buy this if he was better than he was this pasty year in Carolina.

The truth is that he still has the same fundamental flaws he exhibited during his second year at USC. 

not only mechanical flaws, but the same fatal flaws in his decision making and inaccuracy.  Year 4 and he’s still forcing stupid passes over the middle that get picked off.  Yet, we just witnessed wilson figure out mid season how to drastically reduce the number of interceptions.  The difference between these qbs is very obvious just based on this.  

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

I would buy this if he was better than he was this pasty year in Carolina.

The truth is that he still has the same fundamental flaws he exhibited during his second year at USC. 

Well that's because he was ruined by year 2 of his career lol. He's done now. No going back. 

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1 minute ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Well that's because he was ruined by year 2 of his career lol. He's done now. No going back. 

Eh, sounds like an argument Sam Darnold would make. He has the same flaws he had in college. Not correcting those by now is on him. 

We can agree to disagree. 

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2 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

What other coaching staffs have done in the past is irrelevant. Mistakes made by Bruce Coslett or Shotty have no impact on the development of Zach Wilson. 

I don't know why this is responsive to what I said. All of my comments have been specific to OP's statement:

Quote

 

NFL teams keep making the same mistake:

They draft a QB, team struggles, then they fire the head coach and then the high draft pick has to go into Season 2 getting used to new coaches, new schemes, new players, and especially new terminology and new QB coaches.

 

 

My point is if the GM banked on a drafted QB as the long term future of the franchise and the GM is confident after the first year the coaching staff is not developing the QB then maybe it makes sense to cut bait early and bring in a coach that can develop the QB. Flipping coaching staff and offensive systems every year isn't great either but if you know the coaching staff can't get the job done then letting the QB settle into the system isn't particularly valuable. 

I don't think this is true at all of the Jets right now and Douglas does not seem interested in replacing Saleh.

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48 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

I don't know why this is responsive to what I said. All of my comments have been specific to OP's statement:

 

My point is if the GM banked on a drafted QB as the long term future of the franchise and the GM is confident after the first year the coaching staff is not developing the QB then maybe it makes sense to cut bait early and bring in a coach that can develop the QB. Flipping coaching staff and offensive systems every year isn't great either but if you know the coaching staff can't get the job done then letting the QB settle into the system isn't particularly valuable. 

I don't think this is true at all of the Jets right now and Douglas does not seem interested in replacing Saleh.

Again, it's a tad early to suggest they aren't developing him, but yes, JD is not replacing Saleh any time soon.

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23 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

And to add to the OP , amazingly the Jets are going into the 2022 season with the most stable CS in the AFC East .

Miami - lost Flores 

Buff - will lose Daboll and maybe even Leslie Frazier

Ne - may lose McDaniels 

McDaniele will stay in NE until Bill retires. It’s the only way Belichick creepy weirdo son can stay employed. 

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LaFleur looks like he can be a good OC, it’s just unfortunate that he only looked like a competent OC when Zach Wilson was injured. For all the talk of Zach’s “improvement,” he looked like a player who didn’t belong in the league in Week 18 vs the Bills. 

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23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

LaFleur looks like he can be a good OC, it’s just unfortunate that he only looked like a competent OC when Zach Wilson was injured. For all the talk of Zach’s “improvement,” he looked like a player who didn’t belong in the league in Week 18 vs the Bills. 

The Rock Reaction GIF by WWE
 

One of LaFleur’s best games was against the Bucs. He also had a nice game against the Eagles 

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35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

LaFleur looks like he can be a good OC, it’s just unfortunate that he only looked like a competent OC when Zach Wilson was injured. For all the talk of Zach’s “improvement,” he looked like a player who didn’t belong in the league in Week 18 vs the Bills. 

Hahahahahaaaaa.

I guessed you missed Week 17 against the reigning SB champs.  

You need a new schtick.  This one has gotten boring.  

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17 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The Rock Reaction GIF by WWE
 

One of LaFleur’s best games was against the Bucs. He also had a nice game against the Eagles 

 

5 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Hahahahahaaaaa.

I guessed you missed Week 17 against the reigning SB champs.  

You need a new schtick.  This one has gotten boring.  

What? No. I read on this very website that the only true test of a quarterback’s ability could come against the 2021 Buffalo Bills defense. Am I mistaken? 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

LaFleur looks like he can be a good OC, it’s just unfortunate that he only looked like a competent OC when Zach Wilson was injured. For all the talk of Zach’s “improvement,” he looked like a player who didn’t belong in the league in Week 18 vs the Bills. 

But in week 17?

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31 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

What? No. I read on this very website that the only true test of a quarterback’s ability could come against the 2021 Buffalo Bills defense. Am I mistaken? 

Hmmm, idk, but if your best argument is to focus on week 18 in Buffalo with half the offense missing (including no Moore, no Davis, no Berrios, and only having Crowder available for 7 snaps), all while ignoring what LaFleur and Wilson did the week before (which, in and of itself, nullifies your original post), I'm comfortable leaving the discussion here :)

Enjoy your day "trolling" or whatever it is you call what you are doing nowadays. 

#Make T0mShane Great Again

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

LaFleur looks like he can be a good OC, it’s just unfortunate that he only looked like a competent OC when Zach Wilson was injured. For all the talk of Zach’s “improvement,” he looked like a player who didn’t belong in the league in Week 18 vs the Bills. 

LaFleur looks like real deal. Zach is far from good but damn dude. .  The lions  share of our offense was missing week 18. We’ve seen some of the great QB’s fall off sharp losing key parts. Zach was trying to use tarot cards to play poker that game . The fact he didn’t die that game was an achievement. Took Mahommes to over time with his pretty solid lineup to beat that team. Give him the offense Zach played with and see how he would do. Zach will likely not be any good, but You simply   can’t use  that game  as a measuring stick. 

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16 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

all while ignoring what LaFleur and Wilson did the week before (which, in and of itself, nullifies your original post), I'm comfortable leaving the discussio

If you guys want to point to a game against a flailing Bucs team where Brady’s WR2 retired during the game, but Wilson notched a mighty 58% passing and one TD, you go right ahead. The execrable Sam Darnold went 29/42 for two TDs and one INT the next week.

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This is probably a good thread for my next comment since it's about yr2yr consistency.

Our Special Teams coach Brant Boyer has been with the team longer than any player and any coach. We hired him in 2016 and he's survived 3 coaching regimes. He's considered one of the best Teams coaches in the NFL and hats off to Saleh for keeping him and his assistances versus bringing in another buddy to run Teams.

Here's a blurb on him I read in the Post a while back. Enjoy!

Jets' longest-tenured coach: 'This group has bought in' (nypost.com)

Jets giving longest-tenured coach ‘one of the prouder times’ of career

By Brian Costello

Brant Boyer is proud of the way the Jets have battled through adversity this year.

Special teams coordinator Brant Boyer has been with the Jets longer than any other player or coach. Boyer first joined the team in 2016 and has coached under three different head coaches and with hundreds of players. 

Boyer said this season has been one of the best for his special teams units. They endured plenty of adversity, with injuries and players missing time due to COVID-19, and have handled it well. 

“I am really, really proud of this group,” Boyer said. “It’s one of the prouder times that I’ve had since I’ve been here. They have battled and battled and didn’t blink when all this stuff was going on, and it’s hard as hell, especially in your rookie year, your body is hurting all the time and, mentally, you’re worn out and to have me just getting after you at times and everything. I think they understand that’s our job and everything to try to get them to where they want to go. They don’t think they can get there unless someone is pushing them. I think this group has bought in, done a great job, and I’m really, really proud of them.” 

Boyer hit on a few of his special teams players, too. 

On kicker Eddy Pineiro: “He’s done a great job. It’s everything that we ask him to do. I think you can see the difference in pop, on his ball, I think he’s getting stronger, he’s getting better. And I think he’s an ascending guy, I really do. I think he’s done an outstanding job since he’s been here.” 

On returner-receiver Braxton Berrios: “He’s been a huge impact, and I think that his preparation is huge. He works harder than anybody. He studies a ton. I think he’s done a great job running all the tracks that we ask him, and he’s made people miss and he’s accountable to his teammates every week and he plays his butt off every week.” 

On punter Braden Mann: “I think the injury [a sprained left knee] hurt him a little bit, I really do. I also think that he’s done a better job this year at controlling returns. I also think, he’ll tell you the same thing, he had some kicks that he’d like back, but statistically, I think we’ve kicked in shorter fields this year with inside the 20s and stuff like that when he’s been back. I think he’s done a solid job. Is there a lot of improvement that we can all make? Me as a coach, him as a player, everybody’s got to make improvements. I think he’s growing, just like anybody, and we all got to keep in mind it’s his second year and he’ll get better and better as we go.” 

 

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On 1/27/2022 at 2:33 PM, Peace Frog said:

I think it's a tad early to say we don't have a clear plan to develop Zach.  They had Knapp, he died, they got Cavanaugh then brought in Beck, drafted a massive OG, Moore and Carter and hopefully they load up on offensive talent this year.

I'll give JD/Saleh/Lafleur another year before I say they have no clear plan.  Besides, no contact in offseason so maybe Beck being a free agent coach is part of the plan.  

Having Flacco as a resource is also good which is why Saleh wants to keep him.

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