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Stephen Ross offered Brian Flores $100,000 for each game he lost/ Flores also suing Giants for racism


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1 minute ago, DoubleDecker said:

The Marvin Lewis account just proves this might end up a sh*t show whether Flores wins or not.  Additionally, asking your team to take a dive is just crazy.  I know we joke, hell I've even advocated for the jets to tank, but imagine hearing Woody paying people to lose?  This whole board would implode!  Ross might be in deep sh*t if any of this is true, because let's say Flores took the money, his reputation is tarnished forever and Ross just retreats to the shadows denying everything.  Then who's gonna hire Flores with a crap record?  So many moving parts with this one, I'm more fascinated about that.  The race thing is a microcosm of the nation and still continues to be a blight on our history as a country.  Wish racism wasn't even a thing anymore tbh

Flores lawyers say they have evidence of the tanking offer 👀 

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Just now, oatmeal said:

Flores lawyers say they have evidence of the tanking offer 👀 

Yeah that's.... geez man this is gonna be something else.  With sports betting becoming legal too, this could be one of the worst scandals ever.🤦‍♂️

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Just now, Warfish said:

That line is not mutually exclusive with racial bias.

For hypothetical example:  An owner who thinks or in any way subconsciously feels that black men are less intelligent or worse leaders or less responsible/capable than white men would still be "hiring the best candidate to win" as HE sees it.  

 

How do you go about proving this or are we just going to assume that this is the way a person thinks now?    

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3 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

On NE radio they are saying right now they think Bill got the info from John Mara, they said John calls him all the time for advice and references 👀

 

damn this is nastyyyy for the nfl 😂🤣😂

Should Mara not be doing that? 

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2 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Flores lawyers say they have evidence of the tanking offer 👀 

Oh snap. The NFL does a good job of sweeping things under the rug. I expect this to be no different. Ross will be forced to sell and the Dolphins will be fined and deducted draft picks. Then, like spygate, everyone will go back to believing it doesnt happen.

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Just now, oatmeal said:

On NE radio they are saying right now they think Bill got the info from John Mara, they said John calls him all the time for advice and references 👀

 

damn this is nastyyyy for the nfl 😂🤣😂

There's no rule against John Mara getting information from Belicheck I don't think.  If they are friends then I would assume they talk about football stuff all the time.  

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Just now, oatmeal said:

Idk 🤷‍♂️ idc tbh. But It definitely gives a perception of some type of good boy club though 

IDK about that.  As much as people change teams in the league, coaches, gm's etc.  I'm sure this thing goes on with every team all the time.  Everyone has friends in different organizations.  

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Haslam’s company had to pay a 90 plus million fine for fraud a few years back and Ross also had questionable business deals so the idea that some of these billionaire owners play by the rules (or by the law) is laughable. But if these tanking charges are provable and possible the commissioner knew about it and let it slide. And now the league makes lots of money from online gambling some of those owners with financial stakes in these platforms. They’re fixing games that people are betting on. 

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10 minutes ago, DoubleDecker said:

Yeah that's.... geez man this is gonna be something else.  With sports betting becoming legal too, this could be one of the worst scandals ever.🤦‍♂️

That was my first thought as well.  This is going to be a complete disaster for the league.  Assuming this news is true, I bet they go to an evenly-weighted lottery for teams that miss the playoffs.  That's probably the only way to prevent tanking.

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10 minutes ago, OCCH23 said:

So I'll take that as a no?

I'm not engaging with a clown who think that it's JUST NOW that race has anything to do with SC nominees. 

You're naive, intentionally dense, or racist if you think that the only time race has "anything to do with" is when they're looking to hire a black person. But I guess that's how you would perceive things if you're the default race in this country.

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Just now, Ghost420 said:

How exactly does that work though? Would flores go to the team and be like ok guys I'm getting $100k for every loss so go out there and lose this one for me? But you gain nothing from it. 

No because players leak stuff, Flores just would coach to lose, put the team in as many terrible positions as possible etc.

I know every week some fan base  is crying about a “dumb game plan” some coach had that week, this explains a lot of that imo 

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1 hour ago, BallinPB said:

Can you give me a number?  

Why do you need one?  Is this some indirect way of denying that there is racism, likely systemic, within NFL ownership and hence its operations?  Be clear here.  Do you believe there is a significant amount of racism within the NFL, particularly among ownership, or not? And before you conveniently ask "How much is significant?", how about 'significant' enough to be made public, investigated and appropriately punished?

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1 minute ago, Dcat said:

Why do you need one?  Is this some indirect way of denying that there is racism, likely systemic, within NFL ownership and hence it's operations?  Be clear here.  Do you believe there is a significant amount of racism within the NFL, particularly among ownership, or not? And before you conveniently ask "How much is significant?", how about 'significant' enough to be made public, investigated and appropriately punished?

I think you’d first have to answer where in the career timeline the issue starts. 

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8 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

That was my first thought as well.  This is going to be a complete disaster for the league.  Assuming this news is true, I bet they go to an evenly-weighted lottery for teams that miss the playoffs.  That's probably the only way to prevent tanking.

Agreed.  And they should have done it at least a decade ago.  These decrepit OLD racist/afraid of change owners cannot be trusted.  Someone should remind them of the agreement that stops antitrust laws from being inflicted upon them.  

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I don't think the hiring process being evaluated is going anywhere because that's nearly impossible to prove.  It's impossible to prove in other industries in business where resumes can be compared, so rarely anything as subjective as what makes a good coach.  I think the main problem is the lack of front office personnel that are non-white because these coaching hires are all subjective.  

I'll use Gase as an example.  Take out locker room fit, and pure Xs and Os, he probably does really well on the whiteboard.  He has a plan for developing QB, how to breakdown film, etc.  He's an idiot in media relations and locker room culture, and doesn't know how to adjust from his plan for players that don't quite fit.  Rex Ryan has great media relations and locker room culture, but he doesn't know offense if it was baked into his brownies.  Todd Bowles was too much of a players coach, didn't actually know how to lead a team, a prime example of Peter's principle. 

In all three cases, there's a subjective analysis aspect to the hire that we got wrong.  

It's the mandate to lose that is really the possible smoking gun because there's millions riding on these games now with the general public, and every little move is going to be criticized.  I understand the desire for tanking, because the game incentivizes it, and it's unavoidable.  Even if you have a lottery system, there are going to be teams tanking to get into the lottery.  It would then have the pitfalls of the lottery being rigged as well.  

There's a part of me that thought the Jags tanked against the Jets this year, the goal line play calls were just dumb.  I'm sure the Giants were tanking as well.  Look at the Eagles last year, they basically tanked the last game.  Got a higher pick, which they traded out of and got a bounty.  There's always an incentive to tank if you look at your team needs specifically, no matter the fan rhetoric "Love of the game" and what not.  The players don't have much incentive because their paychecks are based on performance rather than wins.  

I wonder if there is going to be an investigation into this because that's going to change gambling considerably.  There are games that are taken off the betting floor if there are major injury concerns (if star player is questionable), and I wonder if certain teams vying for the bottom of the draft might have their spreads eliminated.  

Interesting off-season so far, and I'm here to watch it all burn for the Dolphins.    

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Just now, Dcat said:

Why do you need one?  Is this some indirect way of denying that there is racism, likely systemic, within NFL ownership and hence its operations?  Be clear here.  Do you believe there is a significant amount of racism within the NFL, particularly among ownership, or not? And before you conveniently ask "How much is significant?", how about 'significant' enough to be made public, investigated and appropriately punished?

I asked a simple question because he said there isn't enough black coaches in the league.  So I asked what the appropriate amount of coaches he feels is needed.  I didn't say anything about significant I believe so I'm not sure where that came from.  

Do I believe there's racism.  Sure.  It's everywhere and it will never go away as long as people are different from one another because human beings are imperfect.   Do I believe racism significant in this day of age.  I don't believe that it is significant in the civilized world.  I believe any significant racism is confined to a small hick town somewhere in Mississippi who now live on the fringes of society.   

I can get behind there being black owners in the league.  I'm happy to support that and wish one of the 7 black billionaires would take the initiative in buying the Broncos maybe part of a collective minority group.  

I'm also happy to support more black GM's and coaches but I want that decision to be based on whether they actually earn that position over the others they are going against and not just by the color of their skin.   

If there's is any actual evidence that someone was not hired based on the color of the skin then I will be in full support of getting that owner the **** out of here.  However, i'm not in full support of claiming racism just because there aren't what people feel to be enough black coaches in the league.   

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26 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That line is not mutually exclusive with racial bias.

For hypothetical example:  An owner who thinks or in any way subconsciously feels that black men are less intelligent or worse leaders or less responsible/capable than white men would still be "hiring the best candidate to win" as HE sees it.  

 

Dan Campbell. I rest my case, your honor. Dan Campbell couldn't lick Brian Flores' jockstrap. 

But I have a feeling that this is not predominantly about race; it's about ticking off your egomaniacal boss and his blackballing you for future HC jobs. The NFL is a very small fraternity. If Flores was white, I fear he would have been treated with the same dismissive response (while pretending to go through the motions.) 

Before all this happened, it seems most posters on this board thought Flores would be a great candidate for another job and were befuddled by his firing. Perhaps now we understand why he's doing what he's doing. If there's a racial component in this case, it isn't about his ability, but his perceived "attitude." If he's accurate about what happened, he should be honored for his integrity and courage in refusing to be bought.

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1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

R.I.P ROSS:

 

Omg 🤣😂🤣😂😂

I do want to believe that this happened, but lawyers going to say their piece at this point in the timeline.  

I want to see the actual witnesses, emails, texts, etc. Not just a lawyer's word. 

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6 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Why do you need one?  Is this some indirect way of denying that there is racism, likely systemic, within NFL ownership and hence its operations?  Be clear here.  Do you believe there is a significant amount of racism within the NFL, particularly among ownership, or not? And before you conveniently ask "How much is significant?", how about 'significant' enough to be made public, investigated and appropriately punished?

You weren't asking me, but I will give you my thoughts on your question. I don't think that there is rampant systemic racism in the NFL, but any amount is way too much. If there is evidence of systemic racism, it should be dealt with swiftly and harshly. 

Accusations of racism should be taken seriously, but at the same time, there needs to be evidence to back up that accusation. Feeling like you are being discriminated against is not the same as knowing that you are. False accusations cause permanent damage to someone's reputation. Once accused of racism, that toothpaste never makes its way back into the tube. The person making the false accusation doesn't face disciplinary action, and the accusation remains in the ether. Again, if there is evidence of racism or systemic racism, I fully support measures to rid the league of that type of behavior.

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Just now, JTJet said:

I do want to believe that this happened, but lawyers going to say their piece at this point in the timeline.  

I want to see the actual witnesses, emails, texts, etc. Not just a lawyer's word. 

One would assume that Flores is smart enough to know you can’t make a claim like this, against literally one of the most powerful men in the world without valid evidence. 

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5 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

I asked a simple question because he said there isn't enough black coaches in the league.  So I asked what the appropriate amount of coaches he feels is needed.  I didn't say anything about significant I believe so I'm not sure where that came from.  

Do I believe there's racism.  Sure.  It's everywhere and it will never go away as long as people are different from one another because human beings are imperfect.   Do I believe racism significant in this day of age.  I don't believe that it is significant in the civilized world.  I believe any significant racism is confined to a small hick town somewhere in Mississippi who now live on the fringes of society.   

I can get behind there being black owners in the league.  I'm happy to support that and wish one of the 7 black billionaires would take the initiative in buying the Broncos maybe part of a collective minority group.  

I'm also happy to support more black GM's and coaches but I want that decision to be based on whether they actually earn that position over the others they are going against and not just by the color of their skin.   

If there's is any actual evidence that someone was not hired based on the color of the skin then I will be in full support of getting that owner the **** out of here.  However, i'm not in full support of claiming racism just because there aren't what people feel to be enough black coaches in the league.   

All you need is the entire history of the league's existence as evidence. Black coaches have a better overall record. They get fired at a higher rate than white coaches after a winning season. It wasn't until initiative was taken that more black coaches and GMs started getting hired, which tells me that race always had something to do with it. You're not going to get owners or GMs saying "don't hire the black guy!" That's unrealistic, and naive.

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