Current NFL Head Coach Openings (5)

[DetroitRed]

11 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

If you’re talking about Kap a lot of people thought he got a bad deal. And the entire thing was political. He is obviously a much better player than many NFL QBs with contracts. 

He was being booed by the entire stadiums including home games.  It would have been a wise business decision to sign that player?  I needed to collude with another owner about this? Or could he figure this out on his own?

[Rangers9]

13 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

He was being booed by the entire stadiums including home games.  It would have been a wise business decision to sign that player?  I needed to collude with another owner about this? Or could he figure this out on his own?

He wasn’t being booed by entire stadiums. And even if he was (which he wasn’t) freedom means you can say what you want to politically even if unpopular. And not be discriminated against. When every team refused to even give him a try out but signed mediocre players like Luke Falk. Kap almost won a Super Bowl. The guy is qualified to play. And has done nothing character wise in his personal life to be kicked out. 

[football guy]

28 minutes ago, Wit said:

The thing is, if a bunch of black coaches start to get hired in the next few years Flores will get a lot of credit. 

Credit he doesn't deserve. Leftwich, Graham, Glenn, Brady, Ryans, Brown, Staley all likely to get opportunities regardless

[T0mShane]

29 minutes ago, Be_a_Jet said:

I know the headline is about race and I know it was used all over the lawsuit but I think the message through the weeds in regards to the Giants is that he feels he wasted his time and dignity being interviewed when the man for the job was already selected. 
 

Really we don’t know the exact date/time Daboll was made aware that he got the position and that’s really the Key. But one can see how Flores feels that way given text messages from not just anybody but Bill Belichick who is basically football royalty. Because of the Rooney Rule that type of stuff is only happening to minority candidates. So I think there is grounds for a racial component. It’s more about subverting the  Rooney Rule rather than “he didn’t hire me bc I’m black”. 
 

I think Flores will have a tough time proving anything in regards to the Giants but it may result in the Rooney Rule being altered

The Tanking for money is the real issue and I don’t think he was fired bc of his race but bc he pissed off the owner for not tanking and for not meeting Brady and tampering. I know he prob had some bad relationships in the organization as well but if I’m a billionaire team owner I’m most likely firing him for not listening to me - not because he wasn’t working well with some people. And if I got fired for NOT breaking the rules ID be pissed too. 
 

In the end I think Flores gets nothing, teams get no penalties, BUT they change the HC hiring rules/window and Rooney Rule as well. 

I think it’s pretty clear that Flores doesn’t expect to “win” this lawsuit. Rather, he’s pointing to the Giants and their string of extremely mediocre white-bro hirings as evidence of a systemic problem inside the old guard that precludes them from taking black candidates seriously. IMO, it matters at the HC level because that’s really the one spot where the owner flies in on a G6 to interject himself into the hiring process, and it’s at this juncture where the candidacies of black candidates seem to get shot down. 

[DetroitRed]

5 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

He wasn’t being booed by entire stadiums. And even if he was (which he wasn’t) freedom means you can say what you want to politically even if unpopular. And not be discriminated against. When every team refused to even give him a try out but signed mediocre players like Luke Falk. Kap almost won a Super Bowl. The guy is qualified to play. And has done nothing character wise in his personal life to be kicked out. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/look-kaepernick-gets-mercilessly-booed-for-an-entire-half-in-san-diego/
there are more.

 

Let me try to explain again, because your are not  understanding the reason he could not find a job. It was not performance related.  Although being a great player may have bought him some time. It was the idea that you can not have a player on your team that the fans loathe.   It’s not good for business. If you don’t understand that, I can’t help you 

[Rangers9]

6 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/look-kaepernick-gets-mercilessly-booed-for-an-entire-half-in-san-diego/
there are more.

 

Let me try to explain again, because your are not  understanding the reason he could not find a job. It was not performance related.  Although being a great player may have bought him some time. It was the idea that you can not have a player on your team that the fans loathe.   It’s not good for business. If you don’t understand that, I can’t help you 

You are speaking for yourself when you generalize and state that fans hate him. I don't hate him even though I've never not stood up for the national anthem and would never not stand. But I respect people's right not to stand esp for the reasons he has given for doing that. We have all these people all the time talking about freedom in many different areas but only their freedom. If it's somebody else's freedom or expression of freedom and they don't like it they are against it. 

[DetroitRed]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You are speaking for yourself when you generalize and state that fans hate him. I don't hate him even though I've never not stood up for the national anthem and would never not stand. But I respect people's right not to stand esp for the reasons he has given for doing that. We have all these people all the time talking about freedom in many different areas but only their freedom. If it's somebody else's freedom or expression of freedom and they don't like it they are against it. 

I guess the stadiums are booing him in celebration 

[football guy]

2 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

I know the headline is about race and I know it was used all over the lawsuit but I think the message through the weeds in regards to the Giants is that he feels he wasted his time and dignity being interviewed when the man for the job was already selected. 
 

Really we don’t know the exact date/time Daboll was made aware that he got the position and that’s really the Key. But one can see how Flores feels that way given text messages from not just anybody but Bill Belichick who is basically football royalty. Because of the Rooney Rule that type of stuff is only happening to minority candidates. So I think there is grounds for a racial component. It’s more about subverting the  Rooney Rule rather than “he didn’t hire me bc I’m black”. 
 

I think Flores will have a tough time proving anything in regards to the Giants but it may result in the Rooney Rule being altered

The Tanking for money is the real issue and I don’t think he was fired bc of his race but bc he pissed off the owner for not tanking and for not meeting Brady and tampering. I know he prob had some bad relationships in the organization as well but if I’m a billionaire team owner I’m most likely firing him for not listening to me - not because he wasn’t working well with some people. And if I got fired for NOT breaking the rules ID be pissed too. 
 

In the end I think Flores gets nothing, teams get no penalties, BUT they change the HC hiring rules/window and Rooney Rule as well. 

I think Flores has a right to feel a certain way, but it is not right for him to use his own displeasure with an outcome as an opportunity to insinuate racism and make false accusations against others because of it. Brian Flores is using a divisive, emotionally-charged subject (racism) in order to pacify his own bruised ego. That's wrong. 

Fact is that Flores was the favorite for the job among some of those in ownership's corner. Had they hired Adam Peters, chances are Flores would've been hired. They selected Schoen, and they gave their word that they would not interfere with his process to select a HC. He chose Daboll and ownership was on board. Rooney rule had already been satisfied, so this notion that they strung Flores along just to satisfy the rule is BS... Schoen may have gone into the interview wanting to hire Daboll but he still did his due diligence and gave Flores the opportunity to interview. I personally thought Flores was the best candidate this cycle, but now it's clear that there were some very real personality and trust issues with him in Miami... the Dolphins can be an inept, corrupt organization AND still have fired Flores for a legitimate reason. Giants probably dodged a bullet. 

Last point: I hate the Patriots, but to think Bill Belichick gave him his first opportunity and brought him through the ranks only for Flores to completely turn on him, relying on a vague text exchange as evidence to insinuate Bill enables systemic racism and interfered with the hiring process by recommending Brian Daboll (over Flores) is jaw-dropping. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

29 minutes ago, football guy said:

I think Flores has a right to feel a certain way, but it is not right for him to use his own displeasure with an outcome as an opportunity to insinuate racism and make false accusations against others because of it. Brian Flores is using a divisive, emotionally-charged subject (racism) in order to pacify his own bruised ego. That's wrong. 

Fact is that Flores was the favorite for the job among some of those in ownership's corner. Had they hired Adam Peters, chances are Flores would've been hired. They selected Schoen, and they gave their word that they would not interfere with his process to select a HC. He chose Daboll and ownership was on board. Rooney rule had already been satisfied, so this notion that they strung Flores along just to satisfy the rule is BS... Schoen may have gone into the interview wanting to hire Daboll but he still did his due diligence and gave Flores the opportunity to interview. I personally thought Flores was the best candidate this cycle, but now it's clear that there were some very real personality and trust issues with him in Miami... the Dolphins can be an inept, corrupt organization AND still have fired Flores for a legitimate reason. Giants probably dodged a bullet. 

Last point: I hate the Patriots, but to think Bill Belichick gave him his first opportunity and brought him through the ranks only for Flores to completely turn on him, relying on a vague text exchange as evidence to insinuate Bill enables systemic racism and interfered with the hiring process by recommending Brian Daboll (over Flores) is jaw-dropping. 

I don't entirely disagree with the gist of your post -- Flores took no prisoners because he was likely blackballed by Ross. Two points on which the jury is still out because they are inextricably bound together. If Bellicick's texts were based on a formal offer of any kind to Daboll prior to Flores being interviewed in person, the Rooney Rule was not met and the Giants will take a bullet, not dodge one. Will Flores be able to show sufficient evidence to prove his case by preponderance? I'm guessing not. But until all the facts are out there, this is premature.

[football guy]

41 minutes ago, football guy said:

Brian Flores is using a divisive, emotionally-charged subject (racism) in order to pacify his own bruised ego.

 

 

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, football guy said:

 

 

Wow..

So he's basically saying. He's so clearly an obviously a better choice than another African American coach - that it's still racist because because he's outspoken.

That it can't be that they just like the other guy better.  That's a very bad take.

[TuscanyTile2]

28 minutes ago, football guy said:

I think Flores did a very good job in Miami and he's a very worthy HC candidate.  But if you're an owner, how do you a hire him when you know you'll be crucified when you eventually fire him?

[Hal N of Provo]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I think Flores did a very good job in Miami and he's a very worth HC candidate.  But if you're an owner, how do you a hire him when you know you'll be crucified when you eventually fire him?

Flores all in on going for a golden settlement.

He’s burning fellow coaches for his own payout now.  That’s the final step to his gambit. 

[football guy]

27 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Wow..

So he's basically saying. He's so clearly an obviously a better choice than another African American coach - that it's still racist because because he's outspoken.

That it can't be that they just like the other guy better.  That's a very bad take.

Exactly. Is he entirely wrong? Probably not. But fact is he’s spitting in the face of many of his very honorable peers for the sake of pacifying his own bruised ego. His power trip and abbrasive personality is what did him in with the Dolphins, not his inability to coach. His players, coaches, and other executives with the team—black or not—would say the same thing in private discussions. Instead of acknowledging that as a reason why he got fired and why he may not be getting jobs, he’s using the race card as a scapegoat for his own shortcomings. It’s shameful. All he’s done is validate the Dolphins reasons for firing him. 

Unfortunately, this toxic “racism” card is one that the reps at athlete’s first continue to use far too much, and it’s sad to see them get away with it time after time. Hopefully it changes soon

[Barton]

Dont worry, Nike will hire him. 

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

 

 

He totally and utterly blundered it and he knows it.  He would be head coach of the texans right now and i refuse to believe that if he had been hired there would have been any law suit.  He got impatient, got pissed off after the Bills issue and then acted before he should have.  If he would have waited a week or so more he would not be in the spot he is now. 

[Smashmouth]

On 2/2/2022 at 9:17 AM, playtowinthegame said:

My predictions 

New Orleans Aints - Aaron Glenn

Houston Texans - Josh McCown 

Jacksonville Jaguars - Doug Pederson 

Miami Dolphins - Leslie Frazier

Minnesota Vikings - Jim Harbaugh 

1 outta 5 ain't bad

[football guy]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

He totally and utterly blundered it and he knows it.  He would be head coach of the texans right now and i refuse to believe that if he had been hired there would have been any law suit.  He got impatient, got pissed off after the Bills issue and then acted before he should have.  If he would have waited a week or so more he would not be in the spot he is now. 

He very much wanted the Giants job, and when he had a hunch he wasn't going to get it, he played the blame game and allowed his agency to cook up the scorched-earth response. Yes, the Texans job was probably his had he not filed the suit, and the main reason why they had to continue forward with their coaching search probably was due to the very reason that Flores was prioritizing the Giants job. Then this all unfolded. How could the Texans hire a guy who turned on everyone close to him and filed a lawsuit that contains so much puffery and flat out lies about others in the industry that will be proven wrong with tangible evidence (security footage, interview footage, phone records, etc.)? They couldn't. 

You feel for that organization a bit because in many ways Flores entrance into the market was the reason why the Texans fired Culley. Flores was viewed as the ultimate hedge: on one hand he could likely recruit Watson better than Culley was able to given their agency connections; on the other, Flores was still a proven young and promising coach on the field even if Watson wouldn't change his stance. Hopefully Lovie Smith proves a lot of people wrong; there was a time where he was considered one of the top coaches in the league so who knows. What's most important is that he surrounds himself with the right people. Pep Hamilton is a good start. 

[football guy]

1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

I don't entirely disagree with the gist of your post -- Flores took no prisoners because he was likely blackballed by Ross. Two points on which the jury is still out because they are inextricably bound together. If Bellicick's texts were based on a formal offer of any kind to Daboll prior to Flores being interviewed in person, the Rooney Rule was not met and the Giants will take a bullet, not dodge one. Will Flores be able to show sufficient evidence to prove his case by preponderance? I'm guessing not. But until all the facts are out there, this is premature.

Flores blackballed himself. Every team with an opening had interest in Flores as soon as he was fired; he wanted the Giants job, but once Schoen got hired he and his team knew his chances decreased given his lack of a relationship with Schoen versus Daboll and Frazier, both of whom had worked with Schoen. He made the decision to allow his team to retain attorneys to begin crafting a scandalous lawsuit in which he would target the entire NFL, including specific teams and well respected individuals, by claiming that the entire league is racist and/or corrupt. 

https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/diversity-inclusion/the-rooney-rule/ 

As far as not satisfying the Rooney Rule, that's plain false. The Giants conducted informal interviews with candidates via Zoom prior to hiring Joe Schoen; those interviews did not satisfy the Rooney Rule. After hiring Schoen, the Giants interviewed Leslie Frazier twice in-person and Patrick Graham once in-person (not including Flores's in-person interview). Two of those interviews occurred before the Giants "allegedly" decided to hire Daboll at the time Flores claims they had come to that conclusion. They went above and beyond the requirements mandated by the rule. 

[Maxman]

2 hours ago, football guy said:

 

 

Damn he is bringing it now. And they would have hired him were it not for this lawsuit.

[TuscanyTile2]

19 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/look-kaepernick-gets-mercilessly-booed-for-an-entire-half-in-san-diego/
there are more.

 

Let me try to explain again, because your are not  understanding the reason he could not find a job. It was not performance related.  Although being a great player may have bought him some time. It was the idea that you can not have a player on your team that the fans loathe.   It’s not good for business. If you don’t understand that, I can’t help you 

I'm not sure that was it.  Didn't a team schedule a tryout for him a couple of years ago and he didn't even show up?  

[Maxman]

51 minutes ago, football guy said:

He very much wanted the Giants job, and when he had a hunch he wasn't going to get it, he played the blame game and allowed his agency to cook up the scorched-earth response. Yes, the Texans job was probably his had he not filed the suit, and the main reason why they had to continue forward with their coaching search probably was due to the very reason that Flores was prioritizing the Giants job. Then this all unfolded. How could the Texans hire a guy who turned on everyone close to him and filed a lawsuit that contains so much puffery and flat out lies about others in the industry that will be proven wrong with tangible evidence (security footage, interview footage, phone records, etc.)? They couldn't. 

You feel for that organization a bit because in many ways Flores entrance into the market was the reason why the Texans fired Culley. Flores was viewed as the ultimate hedge: on one hand he could likely recruit Watson better than Culley was able to given their agency connections; on the other, Flores was still a proven young and promising coach on the field even if Watson wouldn't change his stance. Hopefully Lovie Smith proves a lot of people wrong; there was a time where he was considered one of the top coaches in the league so who knows. What's most important is that he surrounds himself with the right people. Pep Hamilton is a good start. 

This is a great post and I felt the exact same thing about the Texans. Really thought it was going to be Flores and Watson returning. Maybe Lovie can get it done, but Flores seemed to be a safe bet a few weeks ago. My how things have changed.

And 100% Flores wanted the Giants job. Brooklyn kid, he wanted to come home.

[Ben Had]

8 hours ago, Barton said:

Dont worry, Nike will hire him. 

"just sue it".

[Long Island Leprechaun]

9 hours ago, football guy said:

Flores blackballed himself. Every team with an opening had interest in Flores as soon as he was fired; he wanted the Giants job, but once Schoen got hired he and his team knew his chances decreased given his lack of a relationship with Schoen versus Daboll and Frazier, both of whom had worked with Schoen. He made the decision to allow his team to retain attorneys to begin crafting a scandalous lawsuit in which he would target the entire NFL, including specific teams and well respected individuals, by claiming that the entire league is racist and/or corrupt. 

https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/diversity-inclusion/the-rooney-rule/ 

As far as not satisfying the Rooney Rule, that's plain false. The Giants conducted informal interviews with candidates via Zoom prior to hiring Joe Schoen; those interviews did not satisfy the Rooney Rule. After hiring Schoen, the Giants interviewed Leslie Frazier twice in-person and Patrick Graham once in-person (not including Flores's in-person interview). Two of those interviews occurred before the Giants "allegedly" decided to hire Daboll at the time Flores claims they had come to that conclusion. They went above and beyond the requirements mandated by the rule. 

Re the Rooney Rule and Flores, the timing and sequence of events is critical. 

1. Graham does not qualify to meet the Rooney Rule, as he's an internal candidate.

2. Frazier was interveiwed only via tele-conference prior to Flores' interview in person, therefore the Rooney Rule was not met until Flores interviewed. Frazier was interviewed in person the day after Flores.

3. Bellicick's texts were posted to Flores three days prior to his in person interview. If they can be validated by other evidence showing that the Giants actually had made an offer to Daboll, Flores will be vindicated that his interview was indeed a sham and the Rooney Rule was violated.

So you are incorrect and seem not to understand the point of Flores' case.

Do I think Flores will be able to support his claim based only on the Bellicick text? No. He's got to show that there was some verifiable offer made by the Giants prior to Flores' in person interview. Good luck with that. My best guess is that Schoen knew very well that Daboll was "his guy," and that Daboll had the inside track, but I doubt that there will be any evidence of a formal offer prior to Flores' in person. So that's why I agree with the gist of your post, even though you don't seem to understand the Rooney Rule.

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/timeline-new-york-giants-head-coach-interviews-rooney-rule-requirement/591390

[football guy]

15 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Re the Rooney Rule and Flores, the timing and sequence of events is critical. 

1. Graham does not qualify to meet the Rooney Rule, as he's an internal candidate.

2. Frazier was interveiwed only via tele-conference prior to Flores' interview in person, therefore the Rooney Rule was not met until Flores interviewed. Frazier was interviewed in person the day after Flores.

3. Bellicick's texts were posted to Flores three days prior to his in person interview. If they can be validated by other evidence showing that the Giants actually had made an offer to Daboll, Flores will be vindicated that his interview was indeed a sham and the Rooney Rule was violated.

So you are incorrect and seem not to understand the point of Flores' case.

Do I think Flores will be able to support his claim based only on the Bellicick text? No. He's got to show that there was some verifiable offer made by the Giants prior to Flores' in person interview. Good luck with that. My best guess is that Schoen knew very well that Daboll was "his guy," and that Daboll had the inside track, but I doubt that there will be any evidence of a formal offer prior to Flores' in person. So that's why I agree with the gist of your post, even though you don't seem to understand the Rooney Rule.

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/timeline-new-york-giants-head-coach-interviews-rooney-rule-requirement/591390

Graham absolutely qualifies. His qualification is literally covered in section 1 and 2 of the rule: 

1. Clubs must interview at least two diverse candidates from the Career Development Advisory Panel list, or a diverse candidate not currently employed by the club.
2. Clubs must conduct an in-person interview with at least one external minority candidate for any GM or head coaching interview.

I’m under the impression Frazier was interviewed in-person by Schoen in Buffalo, with ownership joining via Zoom. My understanding of the rule is that if Schoen was declared the primary decision maker in the process, this would satisfy sub-rule 5.

 

Also, I just want to point out I have no allegence in this saga. Quite frankly I do not like the Patriots, Giants, or Dolphins, and I think the Giants and Dolphins are poorly run organizations. For once it feels great to be a fan of a team that looks like it has a plan and isn’t mired in controversy. On the surface I thought Flores was the best candidate this cycle, and I thought rumors of him being toxic were overblown, but clearly they weren’t given what we know now. 

[Dcat]

Summary:

• Bears: Matt Eberflus
• Giants: Brian Daboll
• Broncos: Nathaniel Hackett
• Dolphins: Mike McDaniel
• Jaguars: Doug Pederson
• Raiders: Josh McDaniels
• Saints: Dennis Allen
• Texans: Lovie Smith
• Vikings: Kevin O'Connell

[#27TheDominator]

I get it upsetting him, but there is the possibility that his interview was a sham and the Giants still satisfied the Rooney Rule. 

Is it me, or is Poly Prep having a rough year in the NFL?  Isaiah WIlson and Flores not exactly using their connections well. 

[football guy]

9 hours ago, Maxman said:

Damn he is bringing it now. And they would have hired him were it not for this lawsuit.

They probably would have, but it’s not racist or out-of-the-norm for a company to hire someone else if one of the candidates their interviewing is technically suing them. No righteous court will determine that he was unjustly treated, so really there is no claim. The statement (common theme) is more about his satisfying his ego and making it all about himself than it is any tangible or justified legal claim. 

To cap it off, the icing on the cake is spitting in Lovie Smith’s face—a fellow African American who is well respected and owns a more decorated record than Flores himself—during the new coach’s moment. The little support Flores had in the industry has evaporated because of it. 

Sure, many who don’t know him or haven’t worked with him will crown him as martyr because what he represents, but just because what he represents could be framed in a positive light does not mean Flores got there by being ethical, empathetic, or moral. He’s toxic and has now burned every bridge he’s had with people who have a proven track record of being upstanding citizens and colleagues across all races—many of which who have put in more work, time, money, and resources into advancing the African American community than Flores himself has.

There was a better way for Flores to go about this, a way the league would have supported and partnered with him on. This wasn’t it. 

[Jet Nut]

On 2/6/2022 at 6:37 PM, T0mShane said:

McDaniel has said he wouldn’t accept a head coaching job in any state that doesn’t have legalized recreational weed. The Dolphins are a sh*tshow.

Florida doesnt have legalized recreational weed

[Larz]

1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Re the Rooney Rule and Flores, the timing and sequence of events is critical. 

1. Graham does not qualify to meet the Rooney Rule, as he's an internal candidate.

2. Frazier was interveiwed only via tele-conference prior to Flores' interview in person, therefore the Rooney Rule was not met until Flores interviewed. Frazier was interviewed in person the day after Flores.

3. Bellicick's texts were posted to Flores three days prior to his in person interview. If they can be validated by other evidence showing that the Giants actually had made an offer to Daboll, Flores will be vindicated that his interview was indeed a sham and the Rooney Rule was violated.

So you are incorrect and seem not to understand the point of Flores' case.

Do I think Flores will be able to support his claim based only on the Bellicick text? No. He's got to show that there was some verifiable offer made by the Giants prior to Flores' in person interview. Good luck with that. My best guess is that Schoen knew very well that Daboll was "his guy," and that Daboll had the inside track, but I doubt that there will be any evidence of a formal offer prior to Flores' in person. So that's why I agree with the gist of your post, even though you don't seem to understand the Rooney Rule.

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/timeline-new-york-giants-head-coach-interviews-rooney-rule-requirement/591390

Thanks man, you saved me a lot of time pointing out the same errors, and let’s face it, I would have been much more obnoxious about it ?

[T0mShane]

41 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Florida doesnt have legalized recreational weed

[Xtina]

On 2/7/2022 at 4:02 AM, DetroitRed said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/look-kaepernick-gets-mercilessly-booed-for-an-entire-half-in-san-diego/
there are more.

 

Let me try to explain again, because your are not  understanding the reason he could not find a job. It was not performance related.  Although being a great player may have bought him some time. It was the idea that you can not have a player on your team that the fans loathe.   It’s not good for business. If you don’t understand that, I can’t help you 

Right. Teams make decisions based on what their fans think 

[docdhc]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

They probably would have, but it’s not racist or out-of-the-norm for a company to hire someone else if one of the candidates their interviewing is technically suing them. No righteous court will determine that he was unjustly treated, so really there is no claim. The statement (common theme) is more about his satisfying his ego and making it all about himself than it is any tangible or justified legal claim. 

To cap it off, the icing on the cake is spitting in Lovie Smith’s face—a fellow African American who is well respected and owns a more decorated record than Flores himself—during the new coach’s moment. The little support Flores had in the industry has evaporated because of it. 

Sure, many who don’t know him or haven’t worked with him will crown him as martyr because what he represents, but just because what he represents could be framed in a positive light does not mean Flores got there by being ethical, empathetic, or moral. He’s toxic and has now burned every bridge he’s had with people who have a proven track record of being upstanding citizens and colleagues across all races—many of which who have put in more work, time, money, and resources into advancing the African American community than Flores himself has.

There was a better way for Flores to go about this, a way the league would have supported and partnered with him on. This wasn’t it. 

I agree with you that Flores went about this the wrong way.  It seems the Giants had a right to complete their interview process as they saw fit until Dabol signed on the bottom line.  Even if they intended to hire him, interviewing Flores was legitimate since Dabol could have taken another job or Flores could have changed their mind.  The Denver allegations also seem flimsy, as they probably have evidence you suggested to refute them, like plane tickets, security time stamps, notes from the interview, etc.  The Rooney rule says you must interview a minority candidate but it can't force how serious you are about actually hiring them.  You can have interviews with candidates you don't intend to hire if you want and if the minority candidate thinks it's a sham they don't have to accept the invitation, which many have done over the years since the rule was initiated.  The rule is just to get minority candidates in the pipeline, get them in front of owners and GM's, give them interview experience, and hopefully increase minority hires.  Whether it works or not is another debate, but I don't see suing for sham interviews has much merit. 

I am very sympathetic towards Flores, however,  and don't fault him as much as you seem to do.  He was in a difficult situation with an owner like Ross, who I believe wouldn't be above trying to get the coach to tank games.  He was fired after doing a good job coaching a team that was a mess before he came.  He even won 8 out of his last 9 games.  Then when there was an uproar over the Dolphins firing him, they started a smear campaign about how he was difficult to work with, how he didn't get along with his QB, which handicapped him getting the Giants job IMO.  His lawsuit may be misguided, but I don't think he did it on the spur of the moment just because he was pissed off and hard to get along with. He's not stupid and he knew he probably would kill his chances of ever coaching in the NFL again.  I think he legitimately wanted to shine a light on hiring practices which he feels are biased, and he is sacrificing himself to do it.  Lovie Smith never gets his job without this lawsuit and I doubt he feels insulted by what Flores did.  Flores has, I would bet, overwhelming support in the African American community for what he is doing.  The NFL, despite vigorously denying all the allegations has now under severe pressure to increase minority hires, and I it's already having an effect in the new Dolphins and Texans hires.  Just trying to prove that the lawsuit is meritless will probably make minority hires in the future more likely than the Rooney Rule ever did.  

My hope is that eventually Flores and his lawyers, and the NFL and theirs, can sit in a room and settle this thing amicably and that he can coach again in the future.  I think Kapernick never getting to play again was a shame, and I think if Flores never gets to coach again that would be a shame too.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

2 hours ago, football guy said:

Graham absolutely qualifies. His qualification is literally covered in section 1 and 2 of the rule: 

1. Clubs must interview at least two diverse candidates from the Career Development Advisory Panel list, or a diverse candidate not currently employed by the club.
2. Clubs must conduct an in-person interview with at least one external minority candidate for any GM or head coaching interview.

I’m under the impression Frazier was interviewed in-person by Schoen in Buffalo, with ownership joining via Zoom. My understanding of the rule is that if Schoen was declared the primary decision maker in the process, this would satisfy sub-rule 5.

 

Also, I just want to point out I have no allegence in this saga. Quite frankly I do not like the Patriots, Giants, or Dolphins, and I think the Giants and Dolphins are poorly run organizations. For once it feels great to be a fan of a team that looks like it has a plan and isn’t mired in controversy. On the surface I thought Flores was the best candidate this cycle, and I thought rumors of him being toxic were overblown, but clearly they weren’t given what we know now. 

Graham was an internal candidate. Frazier did not meet the in-person requirement. You're wrong. See Larry brown timeline I attached. 

[football guy]

1 hour ago, docdhc said:

I am very sympathetic towards Flores, however,  and don't fault him as much as you seem to do.  He was in a difficult situation with an owner like Ross, who I believe wouldn't be above trying to get the coach to tank games.  He was fired after doing a good job coaching a team that was a mess before he came.  He even won 8 out of his last 9 games.  Then when there was an uproar over the Dolphins firing him, they started a smear campaign about how he was difficult to work with, how he didn't get along with his QB, which handicapped him getting the Giants job IMO.  His lawsuit may be misguided, but I don't think he did it on the spur of the moment just because he was pissed off and hard to get along with. He's not stupid and he knew he probably would kill his chances of ever coaching in the NFL again.  I think he legitimately wanted to shine a light on hiring practices which he feels are biased, and he is sacrificing himself to do it.  Lovie Smith never gets his job without this lawsuit and I doubt he feels insulted by what Flores did.  Flores has, I would bet, overwhelming support in the African American community for what he is doing.  The NFL, despite vigorously denying all the allegations has now under severe pressure to increase minority hires, and I it's already having an effect in the new Dolphins and Texans hires.  Just trying to prove that the lawsuit is meritless will probably make minority hires in the future more likely than the Rooney Rule ever did.  

A world can exist where the Dolphins are inept, Flores is a good football coach but has a toxic personality. 

Brian physically threatened players, was combative with coaches and other executives, alienated people, and developed a tendency to fire (or seek to fire) colleagues on impulse. One of Flores's best friends is Patrick Graham, and while it had been reported that he left Miami because "being the DC of the Giants was his dream job", the real reason was because their working relationship was beginning to diminish their personal relationship. 

1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Graham was an internal candidate. Frazier did not meet the in-person requirement. You're wrong. See Larry brown timeline I attached. 

I don't know who Larry Brown is nor do I care. I know for a fact Schoen was Buffalo to interview both Brian Daboll and Leslie Frazier "in-person", with ownership joining in via Zoom. Whether or not that meets the letter of the code I can't say for sure, but my understanding is that it does. 

 

 

My last point then I'm done talking about this. The fall of Brian Flores has nothing to do with the color of his skin. If anything, what happened to him is due to his personality, which has become a common theme among head coaches that came from the Bill Belichick tree. All of them are extremely intense and alienate those around them, borderline bullying their staff the same way they are bullied in New England. They fail at the relationship part of the job. From an outsider looking in, they are guys who see how Bill Belichick did it and try to replicate it the same way. Problem is that they are not Bill Belichick. The reason why Bill gets away with his attitude, abrasiveness, and conviction is because he has the hardware to back it up. Nick Saban (Dolphins), Eric Mangini, Jim Schwartz, Josh McDaniels, Bill O'Brien, Matt Patricia, Brian Flores, Joe Judge have all been accused of being toxic or exclusive one way or another. Are they deep down? Probably not in all cases, but their approach to coaching was. Romeo Crenell is about the only HC to come from that tree and wasn't and that's because he's straight up an amazing people's person. 

See what Josh McDaniels said just last week RE: his first stint as a HC

"When I went to Denver, I knew a little bit of football but I didn't know people and how important that aspect of the process and maintaining culture and building a team was. And I failed."

Now go research all those coaches above and let me know if you find anything on their personality profiles and their attitudes in the work place, then let me know if you find a common theme.