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Good news for the “All-in on offense” crowd?


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5 hours ago, redlichtie said:

Great, I’m all for it…….but you can help your young QB and offense a lot more by having a great (actually I’ll settle for even moderately competent) defense.

It’s all well and good having a nasty, dominant, “powerhouse” OL, with it’s 5 top 10 picks (plus Becton for depth) but if your defense is routinely giving up 8-12 minute scoring drives and your offense is only seeing the ball once or twice a half then all the offensive talent in the world isn’t going to be much good.

It’s a team game and we need a D that can hold up it’s end of the bargain. We’ll be shipping 35-50 points a game again unless there’s major focus on improving the unit this off-season. We cannot afford to ‘prioritise’ any unit over the other.

The OL improved significantly as the season wore on, with continuity and familiarity of system, plus the addition of a RG or maybe C(McGovern is better than he gets credit for)it’s fair to expect that to continue. The skill position are in more serious need of investment for sure. WR & TE urgently need an infusion of talent and we can certainly use another RB to help Carter but if we don’t seriously upgrade our pass rush and tighten up against the run then poor Zachary/Mike White/Whoever is gonna be playing catch up from the gun and having to put up 30 points just to keep it competitive.

 

 

A defense helps the offense just as a good offense helps the defense. However the impact a good defense has on the offense is not even in the same world as providing your QB more weapons and better protection. We had a lot of key injuries on defense and its not like the Jets are going to ignore defense in FA and even in the draft. But the majority of our high picks in the draft should be on offense. I am glad to hear that the Jets believe this too. Remember Saleh said "we will lift YOU up" and they still need to do quite a bit to live up to that.

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1 hour ago, Greensleeves said:

They aren't ignoring the D, they will be getting some excellent players in FA and after the second round I think. Still could go pass rusher with the first overall pick. But, you do not help your young QB by spending marquee picks on D. It doesn't help Zach's confidence if all of his receivers are hurt and he keeps getting the ball back so he can throw to no-one. That ruins a QB. Our D is already light years better than last year when our best player comes back - Carl Lawson. If he is healthy our D is totally different from the first game. Also, we'll be signing some linebackers and corner backs. After edge, the marquee picks all need to be on offense IMO. It's way more important and fun having a prolific offense every week, even if we lose 41-38, it helps the QB immensely which is the only thing that will make the Jets compete for a Super Bowl in the future. You're not beating Mahones, Allen, Burrow without your QB reaching close to an elite level. 

Equally, we aren’t ignoring the O either, as I pointed out in my first post, we need to continue to upgrade on that side of the ball and especially the skill positions with at least another WR or two, and the same can be said of TE…but equally those positions can, and should be addressed in FA or with draft picks from the mid to late 2nd round and beyond. You have to look at where the strength of the draft it’s and there simply isn’t a Kyle Pitts this year or even a JaMarr Chase. At least the WR options this year offer some value at pick No 10 but the No 4 pick has to be an edge rusher.

You don’t help your young QB if he gets the ball once a quarter and he has to score a TD every possession. The contention that you don’t help a QB or your offense by spending marquee picks is entirely wrong-headed in my opinion. It is, always has been, and always will be, a TEAM game.

I get that people are sick and tired of crappy offense and I too want to see a an exciting and dynamic team that can score points and make watching on Sundays fun again, but the logic that we ignore the D because the only way to success is to just keep drafting offense is flawed. The same people who are screaming offense will be the first ones on here losing their collective sh!t when our defense can’t stop a nosebleed and we are slowly and relentlessly marched downfield time and time again while our young QB and his highly drafted offense are sat on their hands for 10 minutes at a time.

I think you are making some leap of faith in declaring that our defense is set to be ‘light years better next year’ because of Carl Lawson. Sorry, but you have to assume he takes a season to recover to his previous 5.5 sacks per season form. Relying on Lawson alone would be a huge mistake IMO and there is zero evidence that we have anyone on the roster capable of hassling opposing QB’s or stopping the run. Luckily I don’t doubt for a second that both Saleh & Douglas know this better than anyone and that upgrading the defense will indeed be the priority this off-season alongside adding more playmakers at WR, TE & RB for Zach

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5 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

not necessarily b/c we all know how the jets typically get shunned even when their offers are more than reasonable.  What it means is that douglas knows he’s all in on wilson and his tenure and reputation will be how functional this offense looks in the next 2 years. And that means trying to ensure that wilson isn’t throwing to Jeff smith, Tarik black and the worst TE group when Elijah moore inevitably gets dinged up.  

Do they really, though? How many FAs have very recently shunned the Jets since Maccagnan was dumped?

And the more recent times it's happened, it looks like the player(s) already preferred somewhere else & either were just trying to get their existing team to match or approximately match the money (Barr, 2019), simply wanted no part of the NYMA if other options were available (Cousins, 2018), or got a better contract offer elsewhere (Anderson, 2020). Maybe I'm blocking a bad memory, but who else was there? The others that turned down the Jets were a couple of HC candidates who were justifiably turned off by the "arranged marriage" idea.

More recently, rather than wait for an inevitable injury, Moses - a reliable, under-30, veteran tackle who never misses a start the prior 6 years - took a marginal-starter deal (at half his prior rate) from the Jets. Further, that was with the knowledge he wasn't guaranteed a starting job here since we had a #11 pick LT from the prior year and a $10MM RT both with fully guaranteed pay for the upcoming season. Further still, that was coming off a season as the most laughably-worst team in the league for the first 14 games.

A couple guys may want to only go to an obvious contender, but there'll always be FAs that chase FA money that those playoff teams (many of them maxed-out) may not be offering.

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There are a couple of ways to go, because of some good depth for drafting OL this year. While my first preference is Ekwonu because of his ability to play both G & T, if he's gone, then I'm not drafting OL until rnd 2. If we're going offense in FA then I'm not looking for JD to just get the next Feeney or GVR. In order for me to feel comfortable with an OL FA, it's got to be a STARTER. We all know we need WR & TE in this draft as well as getting both of those positions in FA as well. As for defense, I good with drafting in the upper level of the draft, but we need them in FA as well. So again, the draft is up in the air until we know what we're getting in FA.

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2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

#4 - best olineman in the draft

#10 - best receiver in the draft

#35 - best tight end in the draft

#38 - best rb in the draft

I have been saying it for weeks.  Thats your 1st 4 picks right there.

I am completely down for this plan. 

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2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

#4 - best olineman in the draft

#10 - best receiver in the draft

#35 - best tight end in the draft

#38 - best rb in the draft

I have been saying it for weeks.  Thats your 1st 4 picks right there.

This draft is deep in edge rushers - if a top 2 guy drops to 4 he will be our pick. If not one of our 2nd round picks will be edge. The other three can be OT, WR, TE

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36 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Is Jeudy somebody you would trade a 2nd for?

Here's a random thought.  #4 for #9 and Jeudy.  If DEN has someone they want to go up and get, this would be a nice swap.  Roughly mid-2nd round value in terms of pick difference.

Problem is, I can't imagine who they would want at #4.

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6 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

Nothing hurts a defense more than a bunch of three and outs by your offense.  A good offense has a tendency to make a defense look respectable.  I'm not saying ignore the defense but Zach and the O have to come first.

I'm sick of being hurt. 

5 hours ago, J_Smith said:

Yes, and a defense that gets to play with a lead looks much better

Who cares how they look, what about how we look?

A really great defense, and you get you to cheer for 3 plays. 
A really great offense and you get to cheer for minutes... through the commercial break even.  

More cheers = not being mocked at Buffalo Wild Wings.   

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7 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I think the good news for those who are like, yo! the D was horrible, we cant ignore it is...

The offense is already, very good.  This isnt a knock on Zach but we saw it when he went down that this offense can put up a ton of yards and score.  They dropped 34 points and 510 yards of offense vs. the AFC Champions w/ a backup QB making his first ever start.  The offense doesnt need an overhaul.  It's actually very close and really can be completely fixed with just a strong FA class, they really dont have to spend picks on offense.

Literally, all they have to do is; Resign Moses, sign and/or draft a mid-round IOL, sign a veteran TE and WR and also target both in the draft where it makes sense and literally, the offense is fixed, and you barely lifted a finger. 

Agree with most of this.  The offense is in way better shape the defense.  I want Moses re-signed as well.  Make Becton earn a spot.  Look heavy at FA for WR and TE as well as draft another.  I'd also argue for an IOL to add youth and competition.    

We still need a major upgrade on defense, especially at ER and LBs.  Grab two of each high in this draft.  My dream draft at this point is Thibodeaux and Devin Lloyd in the first.  Best available WR or TE in the second.  Look at remaining ER with the additional picks.  For those suggesting the return of Carl Lawson is enough, you are mistaken.  He's not a proven commodity and if we get any return on him would be a surprise not an expectation.  

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45 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

Agree with most of this.  The offense is in way better shape the defense.  I want Moses re-signed as well.  Make Becton earn a spot.  Look heavy at FA for WR and TE as well as draft another.  I'd also argue for an IOL to add youth and competition.    

We still need a major upgrade on defense, especially at ER and LBs.  Grab two of each high in this draft.  My dream draft at this point is Thibodeaux and Devin Lloyd in the first.  Best available WR or TE in the second.  Look at remaining ER with the additional picks.  For those suggesting the return of Carl Lawson is enough, you are mistaken.  He's not a proven commodity and if we get any return on him would be a surprise not an expectation.  

The problem (as I see it) in drafting defense is that we saw that the #1 defense in the NFL got shredded by Mahomes.  It's sort of like how certain positions are devalued, I think defense as a whole has been devalued.  Not saying it's not important, btw.  It is.  But I'd prefer to build like Dallas did.  They built a great offense while having a historically bad defense.  Once they had the O in place, they drafted (IIRC) Parsons and Diggs and their defense turned around quickly.

EDIT: I trust whatever JD thinks though.  I'm usually wrong on this stuff.

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10 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

I said this a while back in another thread and I'll say it again here.  I'd be thrilled with a 7-10, 8-9 season losing games 42-35.

You can throw me in the gallows, but in my eyes and likely in the eyes of ownership, everything pre-Saleh doesn't count.

This is year 2 of the rebuild and JD will get at least through the end of 2023 to make the playoffs.  Barring just an absolute epic whiff on drafts and FAs, JD and Saleh don't hit the hot seat until 2024.

I'd rather see the Jets win or lose 28-27; 34-31; 45-42.  Then 14-13; 17-16; 20-17.  

Win or lose high scoring games means for me...Jets finally have a franchise QB that can shred defenses.   Someone...if given the weapons and protection...can do this for the next 12-15 years.  Who can sling it with the most elite QBs in the league.  

IMO...low scoring games is a worrisome indication that he's still struggling within an offense that's built for him to succeed.  Jets need to find out if Zach's special talents will translate into being the QB that can lead Jets into consistent playoff contention. 

So by 2023...Jets need to start a string of playoff runs.  If not then.  The JD-Saleh-ZW era may go up in flames.  And Jets fans once again will have to depend on the clueless Johnsons to start another circle jerk all over again.

Good luck with that.

Jets went 0-6 in the AFCE (0-12 over last two years).  How much "winning" at the LOS are the Jets really doing?  This OL could be more fools gold then just a legit one RT or RG away from a line that can truly go toe-to-toe in the division and dominate Bills or Pats.  Is McGovern or Fant going to be around in 2023...when Jets should start their run of playoff appearances?  I truly don't know.  Jets need to think about OC-RG-RT now...in order for the OL to be ready for a 2023 run. 

JD-Saleh probably know that if Zach Wilson doesn't start flourishing in 2022...ALL Three Amigos could be gone if no playoffs in 2023.  They know Jets need to continue prioritizing beefing up the OL and upgrade weapons for ZW to work with.  

This coming year is not about how much can Jets improve the D.  But how much can Zach Wilson improve and demonstrate that he can be QB NYJ for the next 12-15 years.

In 2022...it's ALL about the QB.

JMO.     

 

 

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20 hours ago, HighPitch said:

The problem is that you cant count on getting a stud in FA.

No big time FA wrs or tes or edge guys are coming here.

Youll get the usual Jags. Id rather take my chances with rookies

but you can trade for someone - which is what has been thrown around quite a bit

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On 2/3/2022 at 8:09 AM, IndianaJet said:

I said this a while back in another thread and I'll say it again here.  I'd be thrilled with a 7-10, 8-9 season losing games 42-35.

You can throw me in the gallows, but in my eyes and likely in the eyes of ownership, everything pre-Saleh doesn't count.

This is year 2 of the rebuild and JD will get at least through the end of 2023 to make the playoffs.  Barring just an absolute epic whiff on drafts and FAs, JD and Saleh don't hit the hot seat until 2024.

This.  In 2023 if we have a veteran offense returning of a record breaking year, I'm okay with a young up and coming defense in 2023.

I have enough faith in Saleh where we can use premium picks on offense to jump start that while not completely giving up on defense for the year.

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On 2/3/2022 at 7:53 PM, GreenReaper said:

In 2022...it's ALL about the QB.

JMO.     

not just your opinion. many others as well. This has to be heavy offense this year to support the most important pick last year. 2 WR's, 2 TE's, 2 OL, be it in the draft and/or FA, I'm ok with getting some in FA, but don't want to waste them on older offensive players. I'd rather get more defense in FA, than offense. I want and OL that will be together for 3-5 years before they need to be paid. That way we can use middle round picks in the future to keep the OL replenished. This offense needs to be together for awhile. There should be no more excuses after this coming year.

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On 2/3/2022 at 7:56 AM, JiFapono said:

Connor Hughes, man, this dude brings it!!!   The 28th ranked offense in the NFL, is looking to improve it's talent level!?!?!?!?!
 

Slow down, Connor, slow down!

This tweet is from Connor Rogers though. Whoever he is…. 🙄

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