playtowinthegame Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 If they investigate the Giants and find anymore text messages that corroborate the Belichick text messages, and it shows clearly the Flores interview was indeed just a sham, then Roger Goodell has to drop the hammer on the Giants for violating the Rooney Rule. I don't believe Roger Goodell has ever fined an NFL team for violating the Rooney Rule. Matt Millen was fined $200,000 by then-Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, who apparently warned teams that the floor for further violations would be $500,000. When will Roger fine a team for violating the Rooney Rule? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jamesr Posted February 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2022 They had interviewed at least two minority candidates before Daboll ... they didn't violate the Rooney rule. EDIT - based on further info about external vs. internal candidates and in person vs. virtual interviews, they DID need to interview Flores to satisfy the rule. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtowinthegame Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 Just now, jamesr said: They had interviewed at least two minority candidates before Daboll ... they didn't violate the Rooney rule. But if text messages are found that show they never intended to hire them it should be a violation. The NFL has to investigate this after the leaked Belichick text messages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Darnold's Forehead Posted February 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2022 The belicheat texts really don’t mean anything. So they had already decided in Daboll, so what? Were they obligated to tell Flores? So sick of all of this. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post More Cowbell Posted February 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2022 I honestly don't think a fine is warranted. It isn't like someone was hired that was not qualified to do the job. This kind of thing happens in every industry. When I was playing bass for a living, after an audition for a wedding band, the band leader told me not to leave, just sit for a while. I doubt anyone is going to cut you and I have to be accommodating to some of these other people. It's just the way it is. Sometimes you find the right guy early and you know he is the one you want. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ghost420 Posted February 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said: But if text messages are found that show they never intended to hire them it should be a violation. The NFL has to investigate this after the leaked Belichick text messages. Blame the rule not the team. They shouldn't be forced to interview people when they already knew who they wanted. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtowinthegame Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 I hope the NFL is forced to treat this like Deflategate and finds more text messages on the Giants for violating the Rooney Rule, then fines them $1 million and strips the Giants of their 1st rd (5th overall) pick in the upcoming draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge4Tide Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Sure. Not because they did anything wrong, I just hate those SOBs and (most of) their fans 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Fine them for what? Hiring the coach they felt most comfortable with after 7-8 interviews of other guys? Bigger point, now the NFL is going to treat a text from BB who runs the organization that has been fined the most in every possible way as evidence? That they actually trust? Why would Buffalo or the Giants be telling that cheater anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 13 minutes ago, jamesr said: They had interviewed at least two minority candidates before Daboll ... they didn't violate the Rooney rule. Why are people ignoring this? Flores is going to need more powerful evidence to prove the Giants hiring process is rife with racism. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymangold Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 From what I’ve understood the Rooney rule wasn’t satisfied until they interviewed Flores. Interviewing Patrick Graham doesn’t count and they only interviewed Frazier. If the texts from BB are true, they had already offered the job to Daboll before even interviewing Flores. listen, I’m not a fan of the Rooney rule. I think every job should be awarded to the best possible candidate. and F the giants. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doitny Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 15 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said: If they investigate the Giants and find anymore text messages that corroborate the Belichick text messages, and it shows clearly the Flores interview was indeed just a sham, then Roger Goodell has to drop the hammer on the Giants for violating the Rooney Rule. I don't believe Roger Goodell has ever fined an NFL team for violating the Rooney Rule. Matt Millen was fined $200,000 by then-Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, who apparently warned teams that the floor for further violations would be $500,000. When will Roger fine a team for violating the Rooney Rule? why fine them if they're just doing what the Rooney rule is forcing them to do. and this is so stupid with the Giants. they hire their GM from Buffalo. then he wants a OC from Bufalo that not only he knows but turned Josh Allen into a superstar. they only way they can make these interviews seem to not be a sham is force the teams to interview the minority candidates first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 I saw someone point out the staff Flores hired in Miami was basically a bunch of white dudes. Not exactly a shining example of how not to be systemically racist according to his own accusations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freestater Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Maybe, but they should definitely fine Belichick. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Snell Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 No fine. The Rooney Rule should be abolished. Guys like Eric Biennamy and Arron Glenn can give seminars on “what to expect in a job interview “. Apparently they lack in a few qualities that owners and GMs deem as necessities. Asking a man to put himself through humiliation time after time for the sake of a thin veiled rule is both wrong and racist in its’ practice. However, if a team shows a particular pattern for not hiring people of color, then at that point, it should be addressed and penalized if necessary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 20 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said: But if text messages are found that show they never intended to hire them it should be a violation. The NFL has to investigate this after the leaked Belichick text messages. How can texts prove they had no intentions of hiring him? Tomlinson was interviewed after the Steelers hired a HC and he impressed them so much they changed their minds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doitny Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, heymangold said: From what I’ve understood the Rooney rule wasn’t satisfied until they interviewed Flores. Interviewing Patrick Graham doesn’t count and they only interviewed Frazier. If the texts from BB are true, they had already offered the job to Daboll before even interviewing Flores. listen, I’m not a fan of the Rooney rule. I think every job should be awarded to the best possible candidate. and F the giants. thats right. you have to interview 2 guys NOT from your team so they had to talk to Flores, or another black man. so someone was getting a sham interview 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, doitny said: why fine them if they're just doing what the Rooney rule is forcing them to do. and this is so stupid with the Giants. they hire their GM from Buffalo. then he wants a OC from Bufalo that not only he knows but turned Josh Allen into a superstar. they only way they can make these interviews seem to not be a sham is force the teams to interview the minority candidates first. Even then ... being the first guy interviewed can itself be a disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymation Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 16 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said: I hope the NFL is forced to treat this like Deflategate and finds more text messages on the Giants for violating the Rooney Rule, then fines them $1 million and strips the Giants of their 1st rd (5th overall) pick in the upcoming draft. I am more inclined that they fine the Patriots for their coach commenting on another team's personnel decision. If I'm the Giants I am filing a tampering charge against them. And also because eff Belicheck and the Patriots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 11 minutes ago, Dcat said: Why are people ignoring this? Flores is going to need more powerful evidence to prove the Giants hiring process is rife with racism. The thing about this lawsuit in general -- workplace discrimination is really hard to prove. These types of cases usually get settled just so they go away but it's going to be exceedingly difficult for Flores to actually win here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla bla bla Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Only if they can prove intent. The Giants hiring the Daboll made so much sense to everyone given the style of play Jones/Allen have and his connection to the GM. They satisfied the requirements for the Rooney Rule so I'm not sure how they prove intent. I've definitely been on courtesy interviews when companies already know who they want and it's definitely a kick in the balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 11 minutes ago, heymangold said: From what I’ve understood the Rooney rule wasn’t satisfied until they interviewed Flores. Interviewing Patrick Graham doesn’t count and they only interviewed Frazier. If the texts from BB are true, they had already offered the job to Daboll before even interviewing Flores. listen, I’m not a fan of the Rooney rule. I think every job should be awarded to the best possible candidate. and F the giants. Why does Graham not count - is it because he's already part of the organisation? Never mind - googled it: Here is the current application of the Rooney Rule as of the 2021 season: Teams must interview at least two external ethnic-minority candidates for head coaching positions, with at least one in-person interview. Teams must interview at least two external ethnic-minority candidates for all coordinator positions. Teams must interview at least two external ethnic-minority candidates for GM/football executive roles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said: The thing about this lawsuit in general -- workplace discrimination is really hard to prove. These types of cases usually get settled just so they go away but it's going to be exceedingly difficult for Flores to actually win here. Maybe he doesn't expect to win, but feels he can make enough impact by losing that it affects some further change. It's certainly got plenty of attention, however it plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla bla bla Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Big Snell said: No fine. The Rooney Rule should be abolished. Guys like Eric Biennamy and Arron Glenn can give seminars on “what to expect in a job interview “. Apparently they lack in a few qualities that owners and GMs deem as necessities. Asking a man to put himself through humiliation time after time for the sake of a thin veiled rule is both wrong and racist in its’ practice. However, if a team shows a particular pattern for not hiring people of color, then at that point, it should be addressed and penalized if necessary. This is kinda where I'm at, spirit of the rule is good and I'm sure it has worked for some but it definitely feels like a sham sometimes to appease the rule and I don't like that. I do like that teams receive comp picks for minority coaches who are hired away. 49ers got a 3rd round pick for us hiring Saleh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla bla bla Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, jamesr said: Why does Graham not count - is it because he's already part of the organisation? Never mind - googled it: Here is the current application of the Rooney Rule as of the 2021 season: Teams must interview at least two external ethnic-minority candidates for head coaching positions, with at least one in-person interview. Teams must interview at least two external ethnic-minority candidates for all coordinator positions. Teams must interview at least two external ethnic-minority candidates for GM/football executive roles. Ah I didn't realize it was 2 external. If that's the case then Flores will have to prove Daboll was hired first, just cause he was their favorite doesn't mean they conspired against Flores. I just think Daboll made the most sense for them given how Allen and Jones play and his relationship to the new GM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 8 minutes ago, doitny said: thats right. you have to interview 2 guys NOT from your team so they had to talk to Flores, or another black man. so someone was getting a sham interview It’s only a sham interview if Daboll had already signed the offer letter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corn Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 If I recall when the rule First came into place Some organizations complained what do we do when we know who we want our next coach to be which would create sham interviews . The commissioner response Basically it was fine With sham interviews feeling That the minorities become acquainted with the process And the owners Also become more acquainted with the minorities . Patrick Graham Just had a 9-hour interview Which might have been a sham But in the process l could have learned a lot And we'll be better prepared in the future. Some organizations are legitimately looking for coaches and GMs others so just looking for some a** kissing and fall guys..Much like the New York Giants have become. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, bla bla bla said: Ah I didn't realize it was 2 external. If that's the case then Flores will have to prove Daboll was hired first, just cause he was their favorite doesn't mean they conspired against Flores. I just think Daboll made the most sense for them given how Allen and Jones play and his relationship to the new GM Given that the text from BB was along the lines of "I hear that you're getting the job" ... that could be from anywhere. "Sauces" and all that. Rumour and gossip are not usually looked on favourably in a court. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, jamesr said: Maybe he doesn't expect to win, but feels he can make enough impact by losing that it affects some further change. It's certainly got plenty of attention, however it plays out. When you say change, could you clarify. Change the ownership structure of the league? The Rooney rule? Making entry level coaching jobs more appealing? Lessening the barrier of entry? There were 8 minority coaches in 2018. How do the ebbs and flows of coaching changes impact the final yearly number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 8 minutes ago, jamesr said: Maybe he doesn't expect to win, but feels he can make enough impact by losing that it affects some further change. It's certainly got plenty of attention, however it plays out. No question. I just wonder if he threw his career away to do it. Time will tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post More Cowbell Posted February 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2022 44 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said: If they investigate the Giants and find anymore text messages that corroborate the Belichick text messages, and it shows clearly the Flores interview was indeed just a sham, then Roger Goodell has to drop the hammer on the Giants for violating the Rooney Rule. I don't believe Roger Goodell has ever fined an NFL team for violating the Rooney Rule. Matt Millen was fined $200,000 by then-Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, who apparently warned teams that the floor for further violations would be $500,000. When will Roger fine a team for violating the Rooney Rule? Apparently the problem has been fixed 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenFish Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 If it can be proving than yes they should be fined. Otherwise, what’s the point of having the rule if you’re not going to enforce it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said: If they investigate the Giants and find anymore text messages that corroborate the Belichick text messages, and it shows clearly the Flores interview was indeed just a sham, then Roger Goodell has to drop the hammer on the Giants for violating the Rooney Rule. I don't believe Roger Goodell has ever fined an NFL team for violating the Rooney Rule. Matt Millen was fined $200,000 by then-Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, who apparently warned teams that the floor for further violations would be $500,000. When will Roger fine a team for violating the Rooney Rule? Yes, no real reason. F the Giants. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2k8 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 The Giants should have flown in Marvin Lewis. He's the guy the owners go to when they want to meet the Rooney quota. Give him a penthouse hotel suite, dinners at Le Bernardin and Eleven Madison Park, some spending cash, tickets to Hamilton... Penny wise, pound foolish, Mr Mara! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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