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Should NFL fine the Giants?


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If they investigate the Giants and find anymore text messages that corroborate the Belichick text messages, and it shows clearly the Flores interview was indeed just a sham, then Roger Goodell has to drop the hammer on the Giants for violating the Rooney Rule.

I don't believe Roger Goodell has ever fined an NFL team for violating the Rooney Rule. 

Matt Millen was fined $200,000 by then-Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, who apparently warned teams that the floor for further violations would be $500,000.

When will Roger fine a team for violating the Rooney Rule? 

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Just now, jamesr said:

They had interviewed at least two minority candidates before Daboll ... they didn't violate the Rooney rule.

But if text messages are found that show they never intended to hire them it should be a violation. The NFL has to investigate this after the leaked Belichick text messages.

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Fine them for what? Hiring the coach they felt most comfortable with after 7-8 interviews of other guys? Bigger point, now the NFL is going to treat a text from BB who runs the organization that has been fined the most in every possible way as evidence? That they actually trust? Why would Buffalo or the Giants be telling that cheater anything?

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13 minutes ago, jamesr said:

They had interviewed at least two minority candidates before Daboll ... they didn't violate the Rooney rule.

Why are people ignoring this?  Flores is going to need more powerful evidence to prove the Giants hiring process is rife with racism.

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From what I’ve understood the Rooney rule wasn’t satisfied until they interviewed Flores.  Interviewing Patrick Graham doesn’t count and they only interviewed Frazier.  If the texts from BB are true, they had already offered the job to Daboll before even interviewing Flores.

listen, I’m not a fan of the Rooney rule. I think every job should be awarded to the best possible candidate.  

and F the giants.

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15 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

If they investigate the Giants and find anymore text messages that corroborate the Belichick text messages, and it shows clearly the Flores interview was indeed just a sham, then Roger Goodell has to drop the hammer on the Giants for violating the Rooney Rule.

I don't believe Roger Goodell has ever fined an NFL team for violating the Rooney Rule. 

Matt Millen was fined $200,000 by then-Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, who apparently warned teams that the floor for further violations would be $500,000.

When will Roger fine a team for violating the Rooney Rule? 

why fine them if they're just doing what the Rooney rule is forcing them to do. 

and this is so stupid with the Giants. they hire their GM from Buffalo. then he wants a OC from Bufalo that not only he knows but turned Josh Allen into a superstar. 

they only way they can make these interviews seem to not be a sham is force the teams to interview the minority candidates first.

 

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No fine. The Rooney Rule should be abolished. Guys like Eric Biennamy and Arron Glenn can give seminars on “what to expect in a job interview “. Apparently they lack in a few qualities that owners and GMs deem as necessities. Asking a man to put himself through humiliation time after time for the sake of a thin veiled rule is both wrong and racist in its’ practice. However, if a team shows a particular pattern  for not hiring people of color, then at that point, it should be addressed and penalized if necessary.

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20 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

But if text messages are found that show they never intended to hire them it should be a violation. The NFL has to investigate this after the leaked Belichick text messages.

How can texts prove they had no intentions of hiring him?  Tomlinson was interviewed after the Steelers hired a HC and he impressed them so much they changed their minds.  
 

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6 minutes ago, heymangold said:

From what I’ve understood the Rooney rule wasn’t satisfied until they interviewed Flores.  Interviewing Patrick Graham doesn’t count and they only interviewed Frazier.  If the texts from BB are true, they had already offered the job to Daboll before even interviewing Flores.

listen, I’m not a fan of the Rooney rule. I think every job should be awarded to the best possible candidate.  

and F the giants.

thats right. you have to interview 2 guys NOT from your team so they had to talk to Flores, or another black man.

so someone was getting a sham interview

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5 minutes ago, doitny said:

why fine them if they're just doing what the Rooney rule is forcing them to do. 

and this is so stupid with the Giants. they hire their GM from Buffalo. then he wants a OC from Bufalo that not only he knows but turned Josh Allen into a superstar. 

they only way they can make these interviews seem to not be a sham is force the teams to interview the minority candidates first.

 

Even then ... being the first guy interviewed can itself be a disadvantage. 

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16 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

I hope the NFL is forced to treat this like Deflategate and finds more text messages on the Giants for violating the Rooney Rule, then fines them $1 million and strips the Giants of their 1st rd (5th overall) pick in the upcoming draft. 

I am more inclined that they fine the Patriots for their coach commenting on another team's personnel decision. If I'm the Giants I am filing a tampering charge against them. And also because eff Belicheck and the Patriots.

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11 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Why are people ignoring this?  Flores is going to need more powerful evidence to prove the Giants hiring process is rife with racism.

The thing about this lawsuit in general -- workplace discrimination is really hard to prove. These types of cases usually get settled just so they go away but it's going to be exceedingly difficult for Flores to actually win here.

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Only if they can prove intent.

The Giants hiring the Daboll made so much sense to everyone given the style of play Jones/Allen have and his connection to the GM. They satisfied the requirements for the Rooney Rule so I'm not sure how they prove intent.

I've definitely been on courtesy interviews when companies already know who they want and it's definitely a kick in the balls.

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11 minutes ago, heymangold said:

From what I’ve understood the Rooney rule wasn’t satisfied until they interviewed Flores.  Interviewing Patrick Graham doesn’t count and they only interviewed Frazier.  If the texts from BB are true, they had already offered the job to Daboll before even interviewing Flores.

listen, I’m not a fan of the Rooney rule. I think every job should be awarded to the best possible candidate.  

and F the giants.

Why does Graham not count - is it because he's already part of the organisation?

Never mind - googled it:

 

Here is the current application of the Rooney Rule as of the 2021 season:

  • Teams must interview at least two external ethnic-minority candidates for head coaching positions, with at least one in-person interview.
  • Teams must interview at least two external ethnic-minority candidates for all coordinator positions.
  • Teams must interview at least two external ethnic-minority candidates for GM/football executive roles.
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2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The thing about this lawsuit in general -- workplace discrimination is really hard to prove. These types of cases usually get settled just so they go away but it's going to be exceedingly difficult for Flores to actually win here.

Maybe he doesn't expect to win, but feels he can make enough impact by losing that it affects some further change.

It's certainly got plenty of attention, however it plays out.

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4 minutes ago, Big Snell said:

No fine. The Rooney Rule should be abolished. Guys like Eric Biennamy and Arron Glenn can give seminars on “what to expect in a job interview “. Apparently they lack in a few qualities that owners and GMs deem as necessities. Asking a man to put himself through humiliation time after time for the sake of a thin veiled rule is both wrong and racist in its’ practice. However, if a team shows a particular pattern  for not hiring people of color, then at that point, it should be addressed and penalized if necessary.

This is kinda where I'm at, spirit of the rule is good and I'm sure it has worked for some but it definitely feels like a sham sometimes to appease the rule and I don't like that.

I do like that teams receive comp picks for minority coaches who are hired away. 49ers got a 3rd round pick for us hiring Saleh.

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4 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Why does Graham not count - is it because he's already part of the organisation?

Never mind - googled it:

 

Here is the current application of the Rooney Rule as of the 2021 season:

  • Teams must interview at least two external ethnic-minority candidates for head coaching positions, with at least one in-person interview.
  • Teams must interview at least two external ethnic-minority candidates for all coordinator positions.
  • Teams must interview at least two external ethnic-minority candidates for GM/football executive roles.

Ah I didn't realize it was 2 external. If that's the case then Flores will have to prove Daboll was hired first, just cause he was their favorite doesn't mean they conspired against Flores. I just think Daboll made the most sense for them given how Allen and Jones play and his relationship to the new GM

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8 minutes ago, doitny said:

thats right. you have to interview 2 guys NOT from your team so they had to talk to Flores, or another black man.

so someone was getting a sham interview

It’s only a sham interview if Daboll had already  signed the offer letter 

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If I recall when the rule First came into place Some organizations complained what do we do when we know who we want our next coach to be which would create sham interviews .

The commissioner response Basically it was fine With sham interviews feeling That the minorities become acquainted with the process And the owners Also become more acquainted with the minorities .

Patrick Graham Just had a 9-hour interview Which might have been a sham But in the process l could have learned a lot And we'll be better prepared in the future.

Some organizations are legitimately looking for coaches and GMs others so just looking for some a** kissing and fall guys..Much like the New York Giants have become.

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1 minute ago, bla bla bla said:

Ah I didn't realize it was 2 external. If that's the case then Flores will have to prove Daboll was hired first, just cause he was their favorite doesn't mean they conspired against Flores. I just think Daboll made the most sense for them given how Allen and Jones play and his relationship to the new GM

Given that the text from BB was along the lines of "I hear that you're getting the job" ... that could be from anywhere. "Sauces" and all that. Rumour and gossip are not usually looked on favourably in a court.

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4 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Maybe he doesn't expect to win, but feels he can make enough impact by losing that it affects some further change.

It's certainly got plenty of attention, however it plays out.

When you say change, could you clarify. Change the ownership structure of the league? The Rooney rule? Making entry level coaching jobs more appealing? Lessening the barrier of entry? There were 8 minority coaches in 2018. How do the ebbs and flows of coaching changes impact the final yearly number?

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8 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Maybe he doesn't expect to win, but feels he can make enough impact by losing that it affects some further change.

It's certainly got plenty of attention, however it plays out.

No question. I just wonder if he threw his career away to do it. Time will tell.

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1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

If they investigate the Giants and find anymore text messages that corroborate the Belichick text messages, and it shows clearly the Flores interview was indeed just a sham, then Roger Goodell has to drop the hammer on the Giants for violating the Rooney Rule.

I don't believe Roger Goodell has ever fined an NFL team for violating the Rooney Rule. 

Matt Millen was fined $200,000 by then-Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, who apparently warned teams that the floor for further violations would be $500,000.

When will Roger fine a team for violating the Rooney Rule? 

Yes, no real reason. F the Giants. 

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The Giants should have flown in Marvin Lewis. He's the guy the owners go to when they want to meet the Rooney quota. Give him a penthouse hotel suite, dinners at Le Bernardin and Eleven Madison Park, some spending cash, tickets to Hamilton...  

Penny wise, pound foolish, Mr Mara!

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