Could Jets Have Legit Shot at Dalton Schultz?

[Peace Frog]

7 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

The "bunch of other options" part is why he was so productive. They have a tandem of Zeke and Pollard at RB with Lamb, Cooper, and Gallup at WR. Do you think Schultz has 80 catches with 800 yards on the Jets?

If we sign a WR and draft offense? 

I could live with 70 catches and 700 yards. It’s first downs, security blanket for Zach and a Redzone target/TDs I’m interested in. 

Look, if we grab 2 of top TEs in the draft but we can’t count on that or that they’ll pan out. 

I’m not opposed to paying for a good young vet TE to grow with Zach. Not a 1 year stop gap. 

[WestCoastMole]

46 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

80 catches 800 yards 8 TDs with a bunch of other options in Dallas? 

He’s a top 5 TE in the league at 25 years old. If that’s “not good” I want not good.  

 

Indeed Schultz is that good and I would expect it will take a 3 Year Contract at 17 Million per year to coax Schultz out of Dallas. The matter comes down to will Dallas use their Franchise Tag. Every team gets one tag per year to use as they wish. Are there other players on that team that are coming up for Free Agency that are more valuable to the Cowboys ? And the Franchise Tag isn't exactly a cheap solution. A team can use it year after year on the same player but every time a team uses it the price goes up for one additional year of protection.

As to drafting two TEs that would represent the best value in the long run for the Jets but remember no matter who they draft both TEs will be raw and need to be taught the finer points of the Pro-Game. The idea is to get Zach help NOW. This is why I think the idea of signing a guy like Mo Alie-Cox seems the most feasible choice. The Jets could get him to sign for a longer contract 4 Years for 12.5 Million per year with 3 years guaranteed. Schultz would require 3 Years at 17 million per year, all of it guaranteed. With Alie-Cox the Jets are not compelled to draft the Premier TE Candidate in the Draft, McBride. What they can do is draft the second layer guys and provide the additional training they need why still filling the immediate gap. Alie-Cox says he wants to have a leading role with the team. OK make him a player coach to take some of the load off Ron Middleton.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

4 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

 

If the Jets sign a TE, it will be someone like OJ Howard or Hayden Hurst. An underachiever looking for an opportunity. 

Has anyone been paying attention to how JD operates? There will be no splashy signings. JD has three rules in free agency and they are: 1) Value, 2) Value and 3) Value. 

Probably a one year deal too.  

[Jimmy 2 Times]

4 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Schultz probably isn’t happening 

But I’m not sneezing at a Njoku/Ruckert tandem at TE.

And I still say to pull off a trade for Cooper. That’s the most realistic and effective way to complete the WR corps along with re-signing Berrios. We’re not getting Adams and I seriously doubt that someone like Mike Williams hits FA.

Cooper, Davis, Moore, Berrios and a mid-round pick at WR.

Njoku, Ruckert, Yeboah and a cheap veteran depth option like Griffin or Kroft at TE.

Then a platoon of Carter, a kid like James Cook and Walter in the backfield.

That’s more offensive firepower than this team has had since the 80’s and sets Wilson up for success.

A Njoku/Ruckert tandem would be spectacular!  

Not sure about the Cooper trade, but if it didn't cost premium picks I'd probably be ok with it. 

[Peace Frog]

4 hours ago, Untouchable said:

 

a kid like James Cook 

I missed this nugget in all the nonsense. 

And just got a chub. 

[FidelioJet]

I think he makes a run at Schultz.  He’ll have a value he places on him and will hold that line. It he’s going to take a shot. 

[Greensleeves]

5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Good young key pass catching TE, they will find a way to keep him.  Others will get cut or restructured or traded etc.

People need to put this fantasy to bed.

I think the part where he was the beneficiary of teams worrying about everyone else has to have merit. Are you going to take away the big gains and be happy to give up what's underneath - definitely. That's why numbers can't be the only way you assess these players. Should we overpay for a guy like that or just grab a solid TE in free agency and try to grab a potentially great TE in McBride. Maybe do both?

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

I think the part where he was the beneficiary of teams worrying about everyone else has to have merit. Are you going to take away the big gains and be happy to give up what's underneath - definitely. That's why numbers can't be the only way you assess these players. Should we overpay for a guy like that or just grab a solid TE in free agency and try to grab a potentially great TE in McBride. Maybe do both?

Well 'solid' is a pretty wide definition.  Kroft was a 'solid' addition.

We have 9 picks I think and it is high time we fix the position which has become key for most offenses these days.  We need to draft two TEs this draft, we cannot assume the 1st guy we draft is going to be really good.  (As i've said before, see Mims)

Douglas's big fail as a GM since he got here has not been taking advantage of the strong parts of a draft.  TE is really good this year as a group, lets take advantage of it.

[Peace Frog]

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

Agreed, we need to infuse some more reliability at playmaker. Bringing in a TE works, but hard to see us overpaying Schultz as the solution. For many reasons. Uzomah, Everett - guys like that, half the cost, all the production. 

Overpay? Let’s sit on $30 million carryover so next year we can fantasize about getting LeBron. Or whomever next years top free agents are out there we’re not getting. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

4 hours ago, Paradis said:

Sure; he’s not that good. 

Thanks for the great insights.  Appreciate it.

In all seriousness, that’s your opinion, you’re entitled to it and you might be right.

But I’ll look at 2020 instead of 2021 to challenge that.  Andy Dalton at QB, Tyron Smith (pro bowl LT) injured, and a rookie WR in Lamb still learning the ropes.  

The guy showed up and made people know his name and he built on that year with an even better 2021 and ending the year as a beast.

Fan Narrative 1:  Ohio State TE Ruckert is really good but didn’t have an opportunity to shine.  That’s why his stats were not good.

Fan Narrative 2:  Dallas TE Schultz is not that good and only benefited from the attention others got.  That’s why his stats are good.

I’ll be honest, I haven’t reviewed his game tape so I’ll leave that to Joe Douglas and team.  I trust that they won’t overpay but $8M per year seems ridiculously low and is a non starter.

[Peace Frog]

10 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Thanks for the great insights.  Appreciate it.

In all seriousness, that’s your opinion, you’re entitled to it and you might be right.

But I’ll look at 2020 instead of 2021 to challenge that.  Andy Dalton at QB, Tyron Smith (pro bowl LT) injured, and a rookie WR in Lamb still learning the ropes.  

The guy showed up and made people know his name and he built on that year with an even better 2021 and ending the year as a beast.

Fan Narrative 1:  Ohio State TE Ruckert is really good but didn’t have an opportunity to shine.  That’s why his stats were not good.

Fan Narrative 2:  Dallas TE Schultz is not that good and only benefited from the attention others got.  That’s why his stats are good.

I’ll be honest, I haven’t reviewed his game tape so I’ll leave that to Joe Douglas and team.  I trust that they won’t overpay but $8M per year seems ridiculously low and is a non starter.

We’ve just seen the guy the last few weeks clearly been a fantastic TE. 

But he’s “not good”.  

And @Paradis is one of the best talent evaluators here but I think he’s putting too much emphasis on price. Don’t care about the cost of the sports  car. I want it. We have and will have money to burn. 

It’s still not happening but fun to discuss. 

[Bowles Movement]

7 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

 

If the Jets sign a TE, it will be someone like OJ Howard or Hayden Hurst. An underachiever looking for an opportunity. 

Has anyone been paying attention to how JD operates? There will be no splashy signings. JD has three rules in free agency and they are: 1) Value, 2) Value and 3) Value. 

Were Lawson and Davis values??

[Peace Frog]

1 minute ago, Bowles Movement said:

Were Lawson and Davis values??

Lulz. 

[PepPep]

Why am I not that impressed with him? Not nec. a guy I want to give a massive contract to just b/c we need a TE and he's a FA. 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

We’ve just seen the guy the last few weeks clearly been a fantastic TE. 

But he’s “not good”.  

And @Paradis is one of the best talent evaluators here but I think he’s putting too much emphasis on price. Don’t care about the cost of the sports  car. I want it. We have and will have money to burn. 

It’s still not happening but fun to discuss. 

Ok lol. Listen I’m out drinking so let’s keep me out of my own way here.

I said “he’s not THAT good”. Like 40 million. He’s not bad. I like Shultz. …just acknowledging the obvious. He’s about to land a contract he’ll never live up to. 

[Peace Frog]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Ok lol. Listen I’m out drinking so let’s keep me out of my own way here.

I said “he’s not THAT good”. Like 40 million. He’s not bad. I like Shultz. …just acknowledging the obvious. He’s about to land a contract he’ll never live up to. 

I’m drinking too. Let’s keep out of each other’s way till WE GET A F*CKING TIGHT END. 

Lol. 

[varjet]

The Jets have like 10 giant holes on their roster. 

They may be able to fill up to five in the 2022 Draft.   They may be able to fill up to three of these holes in FA.  All conservatively.

To get good players to fill holes in FA, whether a S, WR, RG or TE, the Jets are really going to need to pay up.

TE is a position where, despite how good the player was in college, you don't know what you are getting in the pros. 

So if the Jets could pay through the nose for Schultz, it is probably worth it.  

But Dallas will franchise him.  

[BurntDice]

Compare shultz to all of the other top 10 TEs. He is less physically gifted. Slower, less agile etc. This is evident on the field too. He only averages 10.4 yards per catch. All of the other top guys are 11+. Many of them are in the 12-13.5 range. He only has good numbers because he had a ton of targets and still didn’t hit 1k yards. Is that worth 13 mil a year? I think not. Njoku has 13.5 yards per catch with a worse qb and will make a bit more than half of what Shultz will.  
 

According to pff their blocking grades are very similar also 

Shultz pass blocking 67.4 run blocking 69.4

Njoku pass blocking 72.4 run blocking 64.1

[Joe W. Namath]

Jet fans - I hate Mike McCagnan.

Jet fans - But do exactly what Mike McCagnan would do and make Dalton Shultz a top 3 paid tight end in the league.

Joe D - I have accumulated draft picks so I can take my pick of the litter tight end in the draft this year and pay him a fraction of what Shultz would cost.

Wake up Jet fans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Joe Douglas!  Thank you!!

[PepPep]

26 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Compare shultz to all of the other top 10 TEs. He is less physically gifted. Slower, less agile etc. This is evident on the field too. He only averages 10.4 yards per catch. All of the other top guys are 11+. Many of them are in the 12-13.5 range. He only has good numbers because he had a ton of targets and still didn’t hit 1k yards. Is that worth 13 mil a year? I think not. Njoku has 13.5 yards per catch with a worse qb and will make a bit more than half of what Shultz will.  
 

According to pff their blocking grades are very similar also 

Shultz pass blocking 67.4 run blocking 69.4

Njoku pass blocking 72.4 run blocking 64.1

I kind of agree. Honesty, I think unless you have a shot at a true star you draft high, sign a low level vet.

McBride and Wydermyer are both legit candidates to be real difference makers in the NFL, amongst others. Frankly, I don't know why more people aren't high on Wyermyer on this site. Seems to be rumbles of lack of athleticism and stone hands? I haven't seen much of that. Nor have I seen a lack of willingness to block. Draft one of those guys in Rd 2 and take another swing at a mid/low level FA vet like Griffin or Kroft (who both had their moments just couldn't shake the injury bug). Maybe Njoku, maybe one of the many many other FA TEs. 

[BurntDice]

6 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I kind of agree. Honesty, I think unless you have a shot at a true star you draft high, sign a low level vet.

McBride and Wydermyer are both legit candidates to be real difference makers in the NFL, amongst others. Frankly, I don't know why more people aren't high on Wyermyer on this site. Seems to be rumbles of lack of athleticism and stone hands? I haven't seen much of that. Nor have I seen a lack of willingness to block. Draft one of those guys in Rd 2 and take another swing at a mid/low level FA vet like Griffin or Kroft (who both had their moments just couldn't shake the injury bug). Maybe Njoku, maybe one of the many many other FA TEs. 

It seems like Wydermeyer is just kind of raw across the board. He’ll probably shoot up after the combine. He’ll probably test very well. 
 

ideally I want to sign njoku and draft ruckert. They’d make a great combo. Njoku is very athletic and a solid blocker, ruckert is good big blocker, good receiver, but probably not the most athletic 

[Peace Frog]

25 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I kind of agree. Honesty, I think unless you have a shot at a true star you draft high, sign a low level vet.

McBride and Wydermyer are both legit candidates to be real difference makers in the NFL, amongst others. Frankly, I don't know why more people aren't high on Wyermyer on this site. Seems to be rumbles of lack of athleticism and stone hands? I haven't seen much of that. Nor have I seen a lack of willingness to block. Draft one of those guys in Rd 2 and take another swing at a mid/low level FA vet like Griffin or Kroft (who both had their moments just couldn't shake the injury bug). Maybe Njoku, maybe one of the many many other FA TEs. 

To be fair, I hope we re-sign Krofty. I like him. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

The Jets have like 10 giant holes on their roster. 

They may be able to fill up to five in the 2022 Draft.   They may be able to fill up to three of these holes in FA.  All conservatively.

To get good players to fill holes in FA, whether a S, WR, RG or TE, the Jets are really going to need to pay up.

TE is a position where, despite how good the player was in college, you don't know what you are getting in the pros. 

So if the Jets could pay through the nose for Schultz, it is probably worth it.  

But Dallas will franchise him.  

Dallas may want to but not sure they can afford to. They are already in cap trouble. 

They also have Blake Jarwin and going with him at 4 mill may make more sense than being forced to give Schultz 11/12 for one year which would in turn force them to create even bigger future cap problems by restructuring a bunch of deals.  

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, Barton said:

Yea, lets count on the Jets to nail those middle round picks. 

Did you miscast years draft?

Macc or Idzik arent drafting

[Hal N of Provo]

I think JD will get more aggressive this season knowing he needs to make the playoffs or be really exciting in 2 seasons. He sounded open to big signings or trades.  He’ll certainly explore both, but isn’t desperate.  

[WestCoastMole]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Dallas may want to but not sure they can afford to. They are already in cap trouble. 

They also have Blake Jarwin and going with him at 4 mill may make more sense than being forced to give Schultz 11/12 for one year which would in turn force them to create even bigger future cap problems by restructuring a bunch of deals.  

As it stands right now the Cowboys rank 30th in Cap for 2022, 32nd in Cap for 2023 and 31st in Cap for 2024. They have almost zero space to roll their Cap forward. No matter how you look at it Dallas has to move players out to keep operating.

In terms of Schultz and they Jets it would seem the prudent thing to do is wait and play it cool and hoping some other team goes after another player the Cowboys want to retain forcing them to use their Franchise Tag. Once that is in place pounce on Schultz

[bla bla bla]

12 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Schultz probably isn’t happening 

But I’m not sneezing at a Njoku/Ruckert tandem at TE.

And I still say to pull off a trade for Cooper. That’s the most realistic and effective way to complete the WR corps along with re-signing Berrios. We’re not getting Adams and I seriously doubt that someone like Mike Williams hits FA.

Cooper, Davis, Moore, Berrios and a mid-round pick at WR.

Njoku, Ruckert, Yeboah and a cheap veteran depth option like Griffin or Kroft at TE.

Then a platoon of Carter, a kid like James Cook and Walter in the backfield.

That’s more offensive firepower than this team has had since the 80’s and sets Wilson up for success.

Completely agree, I definitely think we should be on the Cooper train. We have the cap space, I don't think we are going to attract any big fish so using it on him isn't bad. He could renegotiate for guaranteed money too cause he's got none left.

Ive been a fan of targeting Njoku or Howard for a cheap 1 year deal. I also like Ruckert in the 2nd or 3rd round. High upside and allows you to address some other positions high in the draft.

4 - Ikem Ekwonu

10 - Jermaine Johnson (would love to trade down here)

35 - Jaquon Brisker

38 - Jeremy Ruckert

69 - Chad Muma

4a) Alec Lindstrom

BPA

[doitny]

i think this board has to come to the realization that were not getting top guys in FA. 

everyone ahead of us in cap space are more attractive then us.

[BurntDice]

21 minutes ago, doitny said:

i think this board has to come to the realization that were not getting top guys in FA. 

everyone ahead of us in cap space are more attractive then us.

The guy I want on offense is Godwin. Looking at the teams with more cap space I think we may have a shot. 
 

Dolphins- with the sh*t show going on there right now they are most likely going to have a very hard time attracting fas

Chargers- 100% a more attractive landing spot and might be in the wr market 

Jags- May just be biased, but I think the jets are more attractive. 

Bengals- Doubt they will be in the wr market 

Denver- Already have Sutton and Jeudy

 

 

[BurnleyJet]

What’s a “Tight End”..

[Long Island Leprechaun]

And then there's this guy, whom Jeremiah touted as the best player at Senior Bowl practice. How many people here had him on their radar? I didn't.

UCLA TE Greg Dulcich

Dulcich was the most impressive tight end during the week. He can run and separate from defenders. I think that was the difference between him and the rest of the group at the position. He made some big plays. Trey McBride was my top-rated TE coming into the week, but Dulcich looked like the more explosive player.

[Integrity28]

I don’t see the fascination JN has with this guy. He’s average. His stats are elevated by the mere fact that’s he’s the last person on the Cowboys defenses worry about. 

This draft class is deep at TE. Draft 2 of them. Spend cap on more impactful needs.

[Untouchable]

7 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Completely agree, I definitely think we should be on the Cooper train. We have the cap space, I don't think we are going to attract any big fish so using it on him isn't bad. He could renegotiate for guaranteed money too cause he's got none left.

Ive been a fan of targeting Njoku or Howard for a cheap 1 year deal. I also like Ruckert in the 2nd or 3rd round. High upside and allows you to address some other positions high in the draft.

4 - Ikem Ekwonu

10 - Jermaine Johnson (would love to trade down here)

35 - Jaquon Brisker

38 - Jeremy Ruckert

69 - Chad Muma

4a) Alec Lindstrom

BPA

Not sure how anyone could complain about that draft.

Especially if coupled with something like an Allen Robinson/David Njoku combo in FA.

[doitny]

7 hours ago, BurntDice said:

The guy I want on offense is Godwin. Looking at the teams with more cap space I think we may have a shot. 
 

Dolphins- with the sh*t show going on there right now they are most likely going to have a very hard time attracting fas

Chargers- 100% a more attractive landing spot and might be in the wr market 

Jags- May just be biased, but I think the jets are more attractive. 

Bengals- Doubt they will be in the wr market 

Denver- Already have Sutton and Jeudy

 

 

i have to disagree with Miami and Jax with a simple word. Florida. 

better weather, better taxes.

and i think people consider Trevor a better QB than Zach. even though his numbers werent that much better he still has the hype.

the problem i have with Godwin is he was playing with a great QB. even the one year with Winston where he caught 121 passes, Winston was a gunslinger.

Zach is or could be one too but last year they took his gun away in favor of a Mike White type of QB.

we would be paying top dollar for his pass ProFormance's, there is no way he ever comes close to those numbers with Zach right now.

with the money being equal i dont see how we attract top WRs who catch close to or over 100 passes a year with what Zach did last year. 

and they just hired a SB winning HC, Jax is very attractive right now.

[BurntDice]

41 minutes ago, doitny said:

i have to disagree with Miami and Jax with a simple word. Florida. 

better weather, better taxes.

and i think people consider Trevor a better QB than Zach. even though his numbers werent that much better he still has the hype.

the problem i have with Godwin is he was playing with a great QB. even the one year with Winston where he caught 121 passes, Winston was a gunslinger.

Zach is or could be one too but last year they took his gun away in favor of a Mike White type of QB.

we would be paying top dollar for his pass ProFormance's, there is no way he ever comes close to those numbers with Zach right now.

with the money being equal i dont see how we attract top WRs who catch close to or over 100 passes a year with what Zach did last year. 

and they just hired a SB winning HC, Jax is very attractive right now.

As far as the tax free money in Jax you also should look at endorsement deals. A guy in the ny market likely has many more opportunities to bring in extra cash and have bigger name recognition. To many people they have no idea who 99% of the jags roster is. The jets may suck, but we have multiple guys people know who they are for good or bad. If both teams start to play well the jets will be a bigger headline. Being the #1 wr in ny is a much bigger deal than in Jacksonville with a very small fan base.