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Could Drafting WR at BOTH #4 and #10 be Justified?


Warfish
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3 minutes ago, slats said:

I get that we’re not getting Adams, but Robinson is probably on the table.

You're living in fantasy land if you think that. 

A guy like Robinson want's nothing to do with a QB-questionable, moribund franchise like the Jets.  The level of overpay required to get him here would be stunning.

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I think getting a proven NFL caliber starter (if not a true #1) will be a priority before the draft. Could be free agency or a trade. Two rookies paired with a second year QB and WR feels like a lot of uncertainty.

So knowing that the market setters like Adams and Robinson are out of the picture for us, who is that "proven starter".  Name me a guy who isn't a John Madden Football fantasy trade, and maybe we'll have something to talk about.  

3 minutes ago, slats said:

TE has to be in play on day two and, again, after probably finding a starting caliber one in free agency.

I agree.

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Two WRs and a TE in the first four picks seems unlikely.

I agree.  I'm not saying this will happen, I'm putting out a hypothetical argument that perhaps it should.

3 minutes ago, slats said:

A WR and TE in free agency, then a first round WR and day two TE, would be adequate for me. The key is the TE position. They had nothing there last year, and what seems for quite a while, adding two 6’3+”, 250+lb dudes to catch passes in traffic would go a long way and take a ton of pressure off the WRs.

I think Jets fans have materially overinvested in the idea we're just a ball-catching TE away from being good on Offense, honestly.  

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I still want to see Berrios resigned

Agreed.

3 minutes ago, slats said:

, and I’m not too upset about the $9M/year rumor.

It's a bit high, But 7+ seems reasonable and should be doable.

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I get that the Jets suck, too, but this team is probably the best situation for Berrios. He’s best friends with the QB and the coaching staff is looking for ways to include him. I think back to Brad Smith leaving for greener pastures only to se his career fizzle away. Then you look at a guy like Wayne Chrebet, who’s still revered in Jetland. Berrios would continue to have a nice career here and probably a nice post NFL career, too, if he wants one. 

All good points.

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On the most base level, we killed the Jets for taking back-to-back safeties in rounds 1 and 2, but now we'll happily applaud them for taking the same position twice in the top 10? That'd be bananas. Especially with massive needs at OL and TE as well on offense. 

Oh and the Jets also had the WORST DEFENSE IN THE LEAGUE last year. By a country mile. I know we're all offense starved, but let's keep some perspective here and spread the wealth around. 

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While I agree we have the need for a #1 WR (and some depth), it's rare to see a rookie hit the ground running. Most will usually take a few years to develop. We need immediate impact players to improve the team THIS YEAR and that's what I think Joe Douglas should aim for.

IMO, the first 2 picks should be one offensive and one defensive player. However, there is no question JD needs to get a #1 receiver somehow- be it through free agency (slim pickings there) or a trade. He could use one of those first round picks in a package to trade for a proven #1 WR. To those who are reluctant to give up a draft pick, I say the odds of getting a good one would be vastly improved over drafting one, which is usually a crapshoot.

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2 minutes ago, ElBarrioJets said:

Oh and the Jets also had the WORST DEFENSE IN THE LEAGUE last year. By a country mile. I know we're all offense starved, but let's keep some perspective here and spread the wealth around. 

Plenty of picks for Defense left if we used the top 2 or even 3 of the top 4 on Offense.

The NFL is an Offense-driven league.  Even a massive leap on Defense, say last to 15th, won't make us competitive if the Offense remains where it is and has been for ages now.

 

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1 minute ago, Jet Blast said:

While I agree we have the need for a #1 WR (and some depth), it's rare to see a rookie hit the ground running. Most will usually take a few years to develop. We need immediate impact players to improve the team THIS YEAR and that's what I think Joe Douglas should aim for.

A good argument.  

But remember, Saleh and Douglas are "rebuilding in a way Jets Fans have never seen before" and are focused on doing it right, i.e. draft not FA.  Maybe they think they have more time/wiggle room than we fans think they have.

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Why cant we get a Robinson and how is Moore mostly hope?  The kid produced in an environment where you blame the offense on the QB.

FAs go to where the money is almost every time.  The better situation is the one that pays the most 

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26 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So knowing that the market setters like Adams and Robinson are out of the picture for us, who is that "proven starter".  Name me a guy who isn't a John Madden Football fantasy trade, and maybe we'll have something to talk about.  

I not as sure that Robinson is a solid no as you are, but Godwin coming off the ACL? Or Michael Gallup? Will Fuller? Maybe a trade for a Ridley or Watkins? 
 
When I hear that the organization is all in on protecting Zach and surrounding him with weapons, I believe it. I suspect that JD will be a little looser with the purse strings this offseason. I don’t know if 6-11 will start getting people fired just yet, but it would certainly put everyone on the hot seat for 2023. This team needs an 8, 9 win season just to keep the fans and press at bay - and I think they know it. They’re gonna do what they can to get over that .500 hump. I’m not expecting Trader Mike or anything, but I expect it to be much more aggressive this year than in JD’s first two. 

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With so many needs it is difficult to be overly critical of any position including a position of need like Wr. I think you might have short changed them a little. Corey Davis is very good, few more drops then usual and then the injury. Moore looked like a super star in the making before his injury. If we dont sign Berrios it would seem that we would replace him with someone at least at the same talent level. Much will look clearer after FA period. With that said, I still cant see drafting a Wr at 4 and 10 when EDGE or OLINE help is much stronger in this particular draft, they are positions of need, and both positions have longevity over Wr. Another issue is while their are some good Wrs in this draft there are none that jump off the page. Garrett Wilson looks good but some would argue he is not the best Wr, even on his own team. Burks? Drake London? Olave? Dotson? Jamerson? All real good, all with issues, none separate themselves from the rest. All seem to be lumped together. If you told me that the Jets traded down and took two Wrs I can accept that much better than a Wr at #4 and 10.

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43 minutes ago, doitny said:

no going full Matt Millen is drafting OL 3 years in a row. or any position 3 years in a row.

i know Matt did that with WRs but its the same thing. 

Not a good comparison.  We have had 2 picks in the 1st round last year and this.  That enables you do stack a position and still address other issues.  

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20 minutes ago, ElBarrioJets said:

On the most base level, we killed the Jets for taking back-to-back safeties in rounds 1 and 2, but now we'll happily applaud them for taking the same position twice in the top 10? That'd be bananas. Especially with massive needs at OL and TE as well on offense. 

Oh and the Jets also had the WORST DEFENSE IN THE LEAGUE last year. By a country mile. I know we're all offense starved, but let's keep some perspective here and spread the wealth around. 

Apples and oranges comparing WRs to safeties. WR is the third highest paid position in the league after QB, and just getting edged out by Edge. Safety is the lowest paid position on defense. Also, TE is a massive need (one that doesn’t see top ten picks spent on it very often), but OL is not. 
 
That said, I’m with you in getting the defense help. I want the best Edge at #4, WR at #10. 

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17 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Plenty of picks for Defense left if we used the top 2 or even 3 of the top 4 on Offense.

The NFL is an Offense-driven league.  Even a massive leap on Defense, say last to 15th, won't make us competitive if the Offense remains where it is and has been for ages now.

 

Oh absolutely, but taking two WRs is a much different proposition than taking two offensive picks at different positions in the 1st. 

I also don't think there's much of a difference in the edge class between guys like Karlaftis and Cam Thomas/Enagbare/Sanders, there's going to be definite value in the 2nd round and that's also where we'll most likely find a TE. And the Jets have shown they don't value CB and S as highly. 

Buuut I can't get behind using two premium picks at the same luxury position. By all means, go all offense in round 1. Just not at the same position. 

Definitely a good conversation topic though lol

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NO.  

OT and CB, please...

Ekwonu & Sauce

As far as those two prospects go, I like the *player* above the stats/measurables

This is key.

When building a winning team, the *player* counts for everything.

If only the gm knew that before they went for Johnny Mitchell, Vernon Gholston, Becton, etc...

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18 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Why cant we get a Robinson

Apart from money, why would Robinson choose the Jets over other teams with better records, better QB's and better overall talent?  Especially after his tenure with the Bears.

If you can answer that, I'm all ears.  

18 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

and how is Moore mostly hope?

He's mostly hope because he has exactly one year of Pro experience, and played in only 11 games due to injury, and only produced 538 yards of receiving.

Now to be clear, I like him and project a good future for him (depending on our QB's improvement, of course), but today, right now, we're projecting him as a legit stud WR.  He is not a legit stud WR in actuality yet.

18 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

FAs go to where the money is almost every time.  The better situation is the one that pays the most 

And do you think we'll pay the most, with JD as GM?

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Certainly it could be justified. It's pretty much a certainty they won't do it (has any team ever spent two first rounders on WRs in the same draft?) but the logic is fairly obvious -- young QBs need weapons. We don't want Wilson throwing to Deontay Burnett or Chazz Schillens -- go get some playmakers and worry about the defense later.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Alot of folks keep repeating "WR in FA".

Who is this WR?  Who, in the real world where the elite, Adams and Robinson types, simply are not coming here.  They don;t want to since they have better options, and we can't afford them at the price they go for.

So who are these solution FA's?  More Cole's and Davis's, #2's or #3/4's we'll press into #1 and #2 service?

And are you all presuming Moore will stay healthy all of 2022?  What on earth makes you think that given his health this year?

Agree with the idea of adding 2 WRs (plus 1or 2 TEs but that's another conversation.) I think the Jets can pry Amari Cooper loose from Dallas with the right kind of offer which does not have to include a first rounder. He would be an instant contributor. I would use #4 or #10 for A WR as well. I like Wilson best.

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6 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

JD is on record that he wants to build from the trenches, and next year looks to be a blue chip WR class. 

This idea would be a weird way to spend the marbles if you ask me. 

If we have more of the same then JD shouldn't be allowed to have a next year to mix in his team building strategy. He's 6-27 as GM. 

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

 

So......how do we do the most we can to support Wilson, the KEY to this franchises immediate future?

 

Right concept, wrong execution. Have to draft at least 1 Tier 1 OL because developing and protecting Wilson is the only thing that matters for next year.

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2 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Agree with the idea of adding 2 WRs (plus 1or 2 TEs but that's another conversation.) I think the Jets can pry Amari Cooper loose from Dallas with the right kind of offer which does not have to include a first rounder. He would be an instant contributor. I would use #4 or #10 for A WR as well. I like Wilson best.

I think JD would never trade for Cooper.  It's not his style and goes against the "first real rebuild we've ever seen" meme he and Coach have put out there.

And I think if JD did, there is no way he is still drafting a QB in the 1st or second.

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11 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

JD is on record that he wants to build from the trenches, and next year looks to be a blue chip WR class. 

This idea would be a weird way to spend the marbles if you ask me. 

PICKLERICK!

It would certainly be unusual, and I'll repeat, I don't think there is any chance it'll happen.  But I would argue that maybe it should, especially since I don't see any chance we trade or sign a top-end WR this offseason.  We may sign a guy, and some folks here will try and say that guy is elite, but in truth at best we're signing another Davis-at-most, a 2nd tier guy.

If I had to bet, I think we go edge #4, not a WR at #10 (probably a CB or LB or Safety if that one hyped due drops), then maybe TE at the top of the 2nd, and then a LB or similar D, maybe an OL, with the other pick.  3 of 4 on D, I could totally see that happening.  Horrible IMO, but totally plausible.

All I'll say is I don't want to see another 28-32nd ranked Jets D next year, and I don't care where the D is ranked.  JMO.

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1 hour ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I’d consider this if we didn’t need an edge so badly or if, more importantly, there were elite receiver prospects in this draft.

The receivers are meh, and I’m not sure any are worth the ten let alone the four or both.  

Yup.  I agree 100%.  I think folks look at the last two drafts and think we can double dip and come away with Justin Jefferson and Jamarr Chase.  But those guys may not exist in this draft.  

And you can still get some really good WRs  in the second round.  In the past few seasons, Michael Thomas, Tyler Boyd, Deebo Samuel, Tee Higgins, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Michael Pittman and Chase Claypool have all been 2nd round picks.  We need to draft 3 pass catchers, imo -- WR and TE.  But not necessarily two in the top 10.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

If this Jets team is not a Wilson-led, winning, Offense-driven, playoff team in a year or two, they're all gone regardless.

Going 6-11 but saying "at least we improved to 20th in Team Defense" will not save them.

And why is missing an issue with WR's, but not Edges or Safeties or TE's?

Depends on what you pay them, and how many year's you're willing to field a loser team staffed with these FA's who fail.

A better argument, but this draft class as a whole keeps getting referred to as "weak", even at positions with some talent and depth.  Was listening to DC radio this morning, had a PFF guy on, who basically said no one at the top of this draft would be at the top of last year's draft.

We can't change that, JD got the picks he did and got them for THIS draft.  What we can do is make the most of it.  I'll be honest, I think both Wilson and London are closer to sure thing than guys like Mims ever were.  By a long shot.

 

I completely understand surrounding Zach with talent, but my point is, you dont need to spend 2 top 10 picks to do so, and especially not this year. "Missing" isnt the issue.  Spending 2 top 10 picks on the same position and missing, is a HUGE issue.  That logic would definitely apply to any position, but I think even more so at WR because the league has proven, you dont have to spend high picks to have a highly productive WR and the Jets have 2 very good WR's on the team already, with a ton of cap space and picks if they wanted to acquire one via trade.

I dont really understand your FA point.  Why are you an auto a loser by signing or trading for WR?  Not following.  And it's kind of beside the point  I was making.  Missing on 2 top 10 picks, 100% hurts more than 1 bad contract. 

I disagree with your final statement.  I think London is a slug and I wouldnt touch him in the first round.  I like Garret Wilson, but do I like him in the top 10?  No.  I dont.  So that might be why we're disconnecting on this, I dont think this year's situation calls for it.

 

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17 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Apart from money, why would Robinson choose the Jets over other teams with better records, better QB's and better overall talent?  Especially after his tenure with the Bears.

If you can answer that, I'm all ears.  

You answered your own question, money.  Its almost always about the money.  The Thuneys of the world who get money and get to go to a possible SB team arent the norm.

20 minutes ago, Warfish said:

He's mostly hope because he has exactly one year of Pro experience, and played in only 11 games due to injury, and only produced 538 yards of receiving.

I think hes better than that though, when on the field he produced.  With a lot of games with a QB feeling his way through the NFL game.

21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

And do you think we'll pay the most, with JD as GM?

If he thinks its time to start spending, yes.  I think the plan is get the kids up and running, find out who's a starter and who's depth,  then spend.  I really dont know if we've reached that point yet but I dont think hes been philosophically opposed to spending

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My preferred outcome of this offseason is to sign a WR and TE in FA and also to draft one of each (likely WR Rd 1, TE Rd 2).

Drafting two at either position means we're really counting on one being able to start and be solid / strong from Day 1. I think that's a tough ask and too much of a risk. I realise the FA signings are not going to be your top of the market guys, but especially at TE, a guy who is a bit below league average would still be an upgrade for us until we can work in the draft pick on a more regular basis. WR is less of an issue on that front - we have two guys who can start / deliver Day 1 (Davis / Moore) and (possibly) a decent depth guy in Berrios who can start at #3 if necessary. Hopefully the draft pick can complement these 2 / 3 and by season's end make us feel happy to move on from Davis if we wish to. But having another vet would give good depth and time for the rookie to get up to speed without being relied upon too early.

 

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8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I think JD would never trade for Cooper.  It's not his style and goes against the "first real rebuild we've ever seen" meme he and Coach have put out there.

And I think if JD did, there is no way he is still drafting a QB in the 1st or second.

Time will tell. I can totally see the Jets brain trust thinking that Zach would benefit from another experienced WR in the room and that adding that experience would not violate the prime directive. I would be fine with a double dip at WR.

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12 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

There have been some past drafts where this could be somewhat feasible, but this year is hardly the draft to take WRs at 4 and 10.   Not even remotely possible.  
 

A better argument would be taking two edge rushers at 4 and 10.  At least the value is better there.  

I think Lloyd will be a target, the jets really need someone like him.  If they trade out of 10 that’s when i could see wr but right now i figure either 2 defensive players or, if douglas pulls a mccagnan at 4 and goes purely BAP, then OL is in play.

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2 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

I think Douglas will either trade for a WR or sign one in free agency. I think the draft will be used to rebuild the defense. I believe 0 WRs will be drafted with high picks.

I think he'll trade for one as well. I think most of the premium picks will be offense, and later picks will be D. Only high pick on D should be edge. Otherwise FA will fill out non premium positions, and 3rd round on we have plenty of picks. We're getting several guys back from injury too.

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