Could Drafting WR at BOTH #4 and #10 be Justified?

[rangerous]

the funny thing is the drafts gurus seem to always point to a guys speed in the 40.  i recently read an article about cooper kupp.  he was supposed to be slow and was drafted i the 3rd round.  he just went for 1400 yards this past season.  slow receivers don't do that.  it's game day speed that counts.

[Claymation]

8 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

I mean I figured they could give him another shot as their #5 WR

Jeff Smith had more of an impact than Mims at the end of the year. He's not making it to the end of TC, he may be packaged with a pick to either move up or to get another player. He won't make it to the opener next season.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I appreciate that, thank you.

I don't disagree.  In respect to Max's request, I try not to say it alot.

With that said, if I have doubts about Wilson, the best way to test them, and maybe overcome his deficiencies, is to give him a great supporting cast of skill players to help bail him out till he figures out how to be what he can be.  That is what I want to see JD do.

I'd put it a bit differently.  For Wilson to have the best chance to not bust, the more weapons we give him, the better.

I hear you but my point was, they did just that this last offseason.  Signed Davis, Signed Cole, drafted Moore, drafted AVT, drafted Carter, signed Coleman, signed Kroft, signed Moses, restructured Crowder.  Weapons was not the issue, that's more than enough to put up very good numbers and have a solid offense as we saw exactly that when Wilson went down.  Health and Wilson were the problem with the Jets offense. 

I guess all I'm trying to say is, a solid WR and stud TE and the Jets have a lot of weapons for a very potent offense. 

 

 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

I'm good with a WR at #10 if no trade down. London/Burks probably. Then get a second in the late second or early third -- Pickens/Bell/Ross would all be excellent picks. Use that #4 on a top flight defender. It's much better than getting another tackle or reaching on a guard or center. A guard or center can be had in the third or later. Jets need skill players with their early picks -- Edge, Corner, WR, TE...

[Peace Frog]

7 minutes ago, rangerous said:

the funny thing is the drafts gurus seem to always point to a guys speed in the 40.  i recently read an article about cooper kupp.  he was supposed to be slow and was drafted i the 3rd round.  he just went for 1400 yards this past season.  slow receivers don't do that.  it's game day speed that counts.

With Kupp it’s more about his route running and his quick moves to leave defenders in the dust. Saw a clip of some of his moves where he’s just breaking ankles and creating 7 yards of separation all by himself. Incredible. 

[More Cowbell]

5 hours ago, Warfish said:

I guess I'm tired of FA never-gonna-happen fantasies (we're gonna sign Devonte Adams!), homer fantasies (Moore is totally a reliable elite #1 WR) and second tier Draft half measures (Mims is really a 1st round talent, really) when it comes to our Offense, especially in this era of the NFL, and especially given our QB needs all the help he can get.

Signing some mid-grade WR and drafting one later on, maybe, is not going to make the Jets Offense competitive.  Davis and Moore are not "studs" in the way that drives a top 10 Offense.  Not alone.  And Wilson isn't close to the kind of "stud" who makes average WR's into studs.  Not yet.

If we blow our picks "rebuilding the Defense" and leave our #1 draft pick QB on a fragile, talent-deficient Offense, again, it's going to be a sh*tshow.  This Defense, even if top 15 (a massive leap from now) isn't going to win us 10 games.  And if our Offense remains near the bottom of the NFL, we're basically writing off 2022 as another lost season of "rebuilding".

For once, I'd like to see this team make a big, bold, leap to make an effort be field a real, legitimate Offense.  To support Wilson, and give him the very best chance to succeed.  To score points, and win by scoring points.  And being exciting.  And interesting, in ways we've rarely seen as Jets Fans (2015, the first two Sanchez years, one year with Vinny, the mid-80's, Namath....).

My nightmare is we draft and a Safety, an Edge, a LB and a TE as our top 4 picks.  And what scares me is I think that is a real possibility.

 

We badly need all those positions you just mentioned way more than WR. I would actually  be OK with a TE at 4 if JD thought one was worth that. 

[heymangold]

Didn’t read all the responses but while it would be great to have all that talent at WR, I don’t think it’s smart to do it with the state of the jets roster.

[FTL Jet Fan]

I definitely would not hate it as I feel the most important thing is developing our QB and it starts with OL, WR, and TE’s. OL and WR in the First and I would be fine with, 
this draft is deep at edge. We can draft another WR like Watson or Pickens in the later rounds. We have a young QB going into his second year, in my opinion it should be the priority to make sure we provide him with what he needs to be successful. 

[GreenFish]

32 minutes ago, rangerous said:

the funny thing is the drafts gurus seem to always point to a guys speed in the 40.  i recently read an article about cooper kupp.  he was supposed to be slow and was drafted i the 3rd round.  he just went for 1400 yards this past season.  slow receivers don't do that.  it's game day speed that counts.

The 3 cone is some times made fun of but it does highlight a player's change of directions. I remember liking Kupp that year simply because of his 3 cone. Lol. I recall his time being the fastest in his class. His 10 yard split is also up there with guys who run in the low 4.40. So even though he had a poor 40, with the stuff that matters (ie change of direction and running for 10 yards) dude is really fast. What we as fans didn't know of him was how much of a student of the game he is.

His top end speed is what’s lacking. But I’ll take acceleration all day at WR. Unless you’re strictly a deep threat.

We can get a little excited about Elijah Moore. His acceleration and change of direction is as good as Kupp’s. And he’s also student of the game. A little hope. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

SCOUTING REPORT: WEAKNESSES

• Comes off the snap high and upright, and doesn't get to top speed quickly. Not sudden or elusive.
• Does not always use his hands to secure deep throws, allowing the ball into his pads and chest.
• Not very quick off the line of scrimmage although this is more a function of his size
• Hasn't had much experience out wide - played almost all of his snaps from the slot

Disclaimer: I've never watched him play. Not even youtube clips (since those are going to be so cherry-picked anyway; go find some of our recent bust QBs and careful editing could make them all look like can't miss prospects).

The bolded parts would all concern me, whether he runs a 4.48 or not. I don't love body-catching as a comfort-zone habit because it leads to leaving their feet to catch it in their breadbox without need, instead of running straight through without breaking stride, but when open there are plenty of top WRs who do that, too. 

The biggest problem with Wilson is he holds the ball too long. If it takes his shiny new WR 3-4 seconds to get open, because he's slow off the line and on top of that is not super quick in & out of his breaks, then he's not open unless single-covered by a shrimp (or the DB slipped early). Even if they're "sharp cuts," (listed among his positives) how quickly does he get out of them to create that sudden separation? He'd get some brownie points in separation because he's just so tall -- he's arguably still open if someone's breathing down his neck, provided the throw hits him perfectly in stride and is also high enough that it's his ball or it's nobody's (or it belongs to the high safety if the pass is a hair too high lol). But compared to quicker receivers, regardless of size, he won't get as many yac on those quick digs/slants (meaning fewer big plays unless he's gotten open on a deeper route against CBs that are faster and have a 5-yard head start on him). 

It's great that he was productive in college, but that's also the story of hundreds of NFL flops, and is why they have the combine & pro days for exact-measurement apples to apples comparisons.

This one may yet end up as a superstar WR at the next level, but those are some pretty big red flags for a top 10 pick. 

[varjet]

I can see JD going two different ways with the Jets first three picks:

• The Value Strategy-based on what I read, the value at 4 is OL-the top OL will not make it to 10.  The value at 10 is Edge-the top Edge will not make it to 2A.  The value at 2A is probably WR at that point.  
• The AVT Grab the Player I Like Strategy-grab the player at the highest value position that would help the Jets the most, even if not top rated.   The pick at 4 would be Edge, even if Jermaine Johnson.  The pick at 10 would be the best WR fit.  The pick at 2A the is probably BPA.

If I am JD I am going with Plan B, but that is now how scouts are trained.  

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

The '21 Jets offensive skill positions were not elite by any stretch, but they weren't bad either. I think what we need more than anything else is for Zach to be better. With how wide open the passing game has become, I don't think it's necessary to have an elite #1 WR anymore (obviously I would love one, but I see expensive opportunity costs in acquiring one). WR is one of the few positions that doesn't suffer from scarcity, and is also a positions which requires time to develop. There is no Megatron or Julio in this draft. Therefore, I don't want JD using either of the 1sts on WR, let alone both.

Putting finances and chemistry on the side for a moment, I'd much rather use FA to help the O by signing Njoku @ TE, Chark and Robinson @ WR (allow Cole and Crowder to walk), and use the two #1s either on EDGE+Trade down, or both on EDGE. 

It is difficult to describe how much I would utterly hate that. My OLED might not survive

[Greenseed4]

Why no talk of Jameson Williams?  His production blows everyone else out of the water. 

Jameson Williams, (15 games) 79 rec., 1572 yards, 15 TDs
Garrett Wilson, (11 games) 70 rec., 1058 yards, 13 TDs  
Drake London, (8 games) 88 rec., 1084 yards, 7 TDs
Chris Olave, (11 games) 65 rec., 936 yards, 13 TDs
Treylon Burks, (12 games) 66 rec., 1104 yards, 12 TDs 
 

on edit: just noticed that Jameson played in 15 games.  If we extrapolate the stats for everyone, it's pretty clear why JD is goo-goo for Drake.

(Normalized for 15 games a piece)

Jameson Williams, 79 rec., 1572 yards, 15 TDs
Garrett Wilson, 95 rec., 1,442 yards, 17 TDs
Drake London, 165 rec., 2,032.5 yards, 13 TDs
Chris Olave, 88 rec., 1,276 yards, 17 TDs
Treylon Burks, 82 rec., 1,380 yards, 15 TDs

 

[Scotty Wooty Doo Doo]

My top 3  Williams , Wilson, Burks,,, and in later rounds Pickett and Watson ( kid from North Dakota St )

[Warfish]

53 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

We badly need all those positions you just mentioned way more than WR.

I don't agree.

We need Offensive production more than anything else. 

I'd argue we're better with a top 15 Offense and last place Defense than we are with a top 15 Defense and a last place Offense.

Difference being the Defense doesn't have a vital, most-important-player-on-the-team to protect like the Offense does with Zach Wilson.

Some of you are, IMO, living in the past, an NFL that doesn't and hasn't existed for quite some time, where "Defense Wins Championships".

It doesn't.  Offense does.

Quote

I would actually  be OK with a TE at 4 if JD thought one was worth that. 

TE is the trendy thing these days on O, so of course everyone wants their own Gronk/Kittle.

I'll take what we can get in terms of help for the O, but unless it's a true stud gamebreaker TE, I don't draft one in the first, and certainly not at #4. 

Although in fairness, a few cycles ago I did argue that Hockenson might be worthy of a first the year he came out, so I'm not always consistent, admittedly .

[Warfish]

42 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Disclaimer: I've never watched him play. Not even youtube clips (since those are going to be so cherry-picked anyway; go find some of our recent bust QBs and careful editing could make them all look like can't miss prospects).

The bolded parts would all concern me, whether he runs a 4.48 or not. I don't love body-catching as a comfort-zone habit because it leads to leaving their feet to catch it in their breadbox without need, instead of running straight through without breaking stride, but when open there are plenty of top WRs who do that, too. 

The biggest problem with Wilson is he holds the ball too long. If it takes his shiny new WR 3-4 seconds to get open, because he's slow off the line and on top of that is not super quick in & out of his breaks, then he's not open unless single-covered by a shrimp (or the DB slipped early). Even if they're "sharp cuts," (listed among his positives) how quickly does he get out of them to create that sudden separation? He'd get some brownie points in separation because he's just so tall -- he's arguably still open if someone's breathing down his neck, provided the throw hits him perfectly in stride and is also high enough that it's his ball or it's nobody's (or it belongs to the high safety if the pass is a hair too high lol). But compared to quicker receivers, regardless of size, he won't get as many yac on those quick digs/slants (meaning fewer big plays unless he's gotten open on a deeper route against CBs that are faster and have a 5-yard head start on him). 

It's great that he was productive in college, but that's also the story of hundreds of NFL flops, and is why they have the combine & pro days for exact-measurement apples to apples comparisons.

This one may yet end up as a superstar WR at the next level, but those are some pretty big red flags for a top 10 pick. 

Good analysis. 

The pro of a "slow" big guy is he can outbody NFL DB's for the ball and save Zach when he inevitably overthrows.  But you nailed cons pretty well.

It may speak to Wilson, the best route runner in this class, as a better prospect for us.  Although his size (similar to Moore) would turn us into the Mighty-Mites, especially if Berrios gets resigned.  A midget group may not be best for Zach either. 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

He is the second option  in GB and is a legit deep threat. Once again you have no idea what you are talking about like when you said Mixon has been a disappointment  until this season. Davis can't  hold Scantling's jock. 

I should have used the work "underachieved" with regard to Mixon.  Mixon was a first round talent who only went in the 2nd round because of a domestic violence allegation. He has had the Cincinnati backfield all to himself (his only competition was Gio Bernard and Samaje Perine).  He should be a bell cow back, dominating carries, yards, TDs, and receptions.  Instead he averaged 800 yards rushing, 6 TDs, 4 YPC, and 30 receptions in his first 4 seasons (this was his 5th season).  If you think those numbers are top flight numbers for a top RB, you are easy to please and there are 15 + RBs a season that produce at that level or better every season.  That is disappointing production from a back drafted to dominate a backfield.  

As for Davis, he basically doubled MVS' production as the #2 option on a running team with an inferior QB.  If MVS could not produce the past 2-3 seasons on a passing team with a top 3 QB and no competition for targets other than Adams, he's not going to do much more ever.  He was handed the #2 role in GB over and over and was outplayed by Lazard.  Instead, MVS caught 25-30 passes a season as an occasional home run threat.  That's what he is and all he is. Davis will be a 60+ catch guy for the next 5 years.  I'll take the 60 catches for 900 yards and 5 TDs over 25 catches for 400 yards and 3 TDs any day.   

[Sperm Edwards]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Good analysis. 

The pro of a "slow" big guy is he can outbody NFL DB's for the ball and save Zach when he inevitably overthrows.  But you nailed cons pretty well.

It may speak to Wilson, the best route runner in this class, as a better prospect for us.  Although his size (similar to Moore) would turn us into the Mighty-Mites, especially if Berrios gets resigned.  A midget group may not be best for Zach either. 

Well they should be signing a FA and also drafting a pair of TEs.

Plus in truth they should be signing a veteran WR. If they really want to help Wilson asap the answer isn't to rely upon a rookie from a class of WRs that isn't the strongest up top as it is. I'm sure there'll be some who pan out but (unlike 2021) it'd take some hindsight to see which were the best of this class. 

Also as much as I'm in favor of a WR at 10 (or a tad lower if they trade down), I equally don't want them to be painted into a corner at any pick, and heading into the draft with Moore + Davis + Mims is a recipe for just that. 

[Hal N of Provo]

1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

With Kupp it’s more about his route running and his quick moves to leave defenders in the dust. Saw a clip of some of his moves where he’s just breaking ankles and creating 7 yards of separation all by himself. Incredible. 

Garrett Wilson might be this guy.   If JD and the FO think he will be able to get open like that, I hope they take him at 4.  
 

It’s tough to see how it converts to the NFL, but G Wilson’s body control and ability to cut look unreal.   I can’t help seeing him getting wide open on double moves a couple times a game.  

[Warfish]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well they should be signing a FA and also drafting a pair of TEs.

Plus in truth they should be signing a veteran WR. If they really want to help Wilson asap the answer isn't to rely upon a rookie from a class of WRs that isn't the strongest up top as it is. I'm sure there'll be some who pan out but (unlike 2021) it'd take some hindsight to see which were the best of this class. 

Also as much as I'm in favor of a WR at 10 (or a tad lower if they trade down), I equally don't want them to be painted into a corner at any pick, and heading into the draft with Moore + Davis + Mims is a recipe for just that. 

I maintain my belief that there is no "Veteran WR" that WE can realistically acquire who will be worth the price in terms of production.

The elites aren't coming here.  The second and third tiers will want far more money that they're worth in production.

And JD and Saleh have pounded the concept that they're "doing it right" in the "kind of rebuild Jets Fans have never seen before", which means the Draft almost exclusively for long term team building IMO.  

I also think the meme that WR's can't contribute early on is also outdated.  They do, quite often enough, these days.

Even for our own moribund franchise, Elijah Moore was an immediate impact player as a 2nd rounder, despite poor QB play.  Only his fragility limited his impact, not his ability.

I do agree, we don't want to be "stuck" come draft day, but I'm less concerned with that than you are.   

[BigRy56]

I think the Jets are going after a bigger name WR in free agency / trade. So I think ultimately WR is not in the convo in the first round. Second maybe, if Berrios got away and somebody like a Jameson Williams slipped due to his injury.

[bd71]

Unfortunately, with all the holes on the roster, can't take a WR at #4 and #10.  Pressing needs also at other positions.  The Jets do though have to hit on a WR and TE pick on the draft though.  I don't see many quality FA WR's on the market and the one's who have value, most likely won't sign here.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

With Kupp it’s more about his route running and his quick moves to leave defenders in the dust. Saw a clip of some of his moves where he’s just breaking ankles and creating 7 yards of separation all by himself. Incredible. 

Which is exactly what Moore is going to do this year.  

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, Greenseed4 said:

Why no talk of Jameson Williams?  His production blows everyone else out of the water. 

Jameson Williams, (15 games) 79 rec., 1572 yards, 15 TDs
Garrett Wilson, (11 games) 70 rec., 1058 yards, 13 TDs  
Drake London, (8 games) 88 rec., 1084 yards, 7 TDs
Chris Olave, (11 games) 65 rec., 936 yards, 13 TDs
Treylon Burks, (12 games) 66 rec., 1104 yards, 12 TDs 
 

on edit: just noticed that Jameson played in 15 games.  If we extrapolate the stats for everyone, it's pretty clear why JD is goo-goo for Drake.

(Normalized for 15 games a piece)

Jameson Williams, 79 rec., 1572 yards, 15 TDs
Garrett Wilson, 95 rec., 1,442 yards, 17 TDs
Drake London, 165 rec., 2,032.5 yards, 13 TDs
Chris Olave, 88 rec., 1,276 yards, 17 TDs
Treylon Burks, 82 rec., 1,380 yards, 15 TDs

 

Injury takes him off the board for me unless somehow he falls to the 2nd, which I highly doubt. We have had too many injuries the last few years to be taking a guy coming off an ACL in the first when we have so many holes to fill.

[JetBlue]

7 hours ago, Warfish said:

In discussing WR quite a bit of late, specifically the Berrios issue, it's pretty clear......our WR room sucks today.  Davis (meh) and Moore (mostly hope).

Mims, bust.  Cole, gone.  Crowder, likely gone.  Berrios, maybe gone too.  The rest on our roster, unworthy of discussion.

We have a rookie, who had a piss poor year, in Wilson, and we're looking today at having very little to help him at the skill positions.

We're not signing one of the elite WR's, for many reasons stated elsewhere, but be assured, we are not signing Adams or Robinson or those kind of guys.  

So......how do we do the most we can to support Wilson, the KEY to this franchises immediate future?

I would offer up that drafting WR at BOTH #4 and #10 might be one way to really kick this Offense, and Wilson, into gear.

Ignoring trade downs (just for now), we could likely get the top 2 rated WR's in this draft class, and (I'd hope) cement WR as a strength for years to come.

Lets consider, and for giggles say we draft Garrett Wilson (an amazing route runner comps. to DC's McLaurin) and Drake London (a big, powerful WR, the best contested ball/possession guy in this class).

That would give us Davis/Moore/Wilson/London as our 4 WR set.  There is no universe wher ethat group should be a weakness, or that Wilson should not be 100% supported at WR with that group.

Yes, this would come at a cost, no edge at #4.  We'd have to go edge (perhaps) at the top of the 2nd, and maybe TE with the other 2nd.  D would suffer, and maybe have to be filled in via cheaper FA's.

Is there any argument that this is the way to go for this franchise, to take a huge step towards making the Jets (and Wilson) an Offensive team with real skill players around Wilson?

Thoughts.

 

I agree with your premise that the receiver room is a wreck.  Where I disagree is I think you can get great value at WR in the 2nd and even 3rd rounds.  Guys like Metchie, Justyn Ross, George Pickens and even the 6'5 receiver from the Senior Bowl, who should be around in the 3rd and maybe even 4th round.    I can see taking a receiver with the 10th pick or even trading back and then taking one.   Not with both. Especially when you consider Oline talent that should be available.  And if a Thibs falls to 4 you have to take him.  In addition we DEFINITELY need a TE.  McBride, Ruckert or Ferguson should be Jet targets.  In fact I can make argument we should take two TE in the 2nd - 4th rounds.   LaFleur's system needs good TEs.   That is actually probably more important the WR position.   

[JetBlue]

7 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

We absolutely need to add backs early and late. Round 3 and round 5. 

Jerome Ford should be the guy.  He would create a true Thunder and Lightning back field with Michael Carter.  

 

 

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

I agree with your premise that the receiver room is a wreck.  Where I disagree is I think you can get great value at WR in the 2nd and even 3rd rounds.  Guys like Metchie, Justyn Ross, George Pickens and even the 6'5 receiver from the Senior Bowl, who should be around in the 3rd and maybe even 4th round.

All I hear when I read posts like this is "Denzel Mims is really a 1st Round Talent".

Forgive me, but with all the Mims and Hill's in our past, it's just hard to see it otherwise.....

10 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

I can see taking a receiver with the 10th pick or even trading back and then taking one.   Not with both.

You're probably right.  

10 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Especially when you consider Oline talent that should be available.  And if a Thibs falls to 4 you have to take him.  In addition we DEFINITELY need a TE.  McBride, Ruckert or Ferguson should be Jet targets.  In fact I can make argument we should take two TE in the 2nd - 4th rounds.   LaFleur's system needs good TEs.   That is actually probably more important the WR position.   

I'll be honest, 99 time out of 100 I am a "MUST DRAFT OLINE" kinda guy.

I don't think our O-line is the problem, I think Wilson holding the ball too long and not knowing what to do with it was the problem.

We can't have 5x 1st rounders on our O-line, it's unsustainable.  We already have two.  Using a third would be a hell of alot of investment, that still won;t pay off 

[Aussie Jet]

Double dipping at the same position in the first round creates cap problems down the track. The Jets have a decent amount of cap space now, but if the rebuild pays off and the Jets start winning games in the next 2-3 years, the cap squeeze will start to bite. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with Douglas tying up a fair chunk of cap space in two first round picks spent on the same position.

I'm of the opinion that if Douglas can't engineer a trade down from #4 that returns the value he wants, then it will likely be spent on a lineman (either offensive or defensive, depending on who is available on the board at the time), and #10 could either be spent on a wide receiver or a defensive back, again depending on who is available at that pick.

I doubt the Jets will sign Robinson, because at this stage of his career, I think he's looking for a team with a good QB. But I could see the Jets signing another free agent wide receiver and structuring the contract to give the Jets some flexibility after the first couple of years of the contract.

[Ghost420]

2 hours ago, rangerous said:

the funny thing is the drafts gurus seem to always point to a guys speed in the 40.  i recently read an article about cooper kupp.  he was supposed to be slow and was drafted i the 3rd round.  he just went for 1400 yards this past season.  slow receivers don't do that.  it's game day speed that counts.

Creating separation is the key

[slats]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

I can see JD going two different ways with the Jets first three picks:

• The Value Strategy-based on what I read, the value at 4 is OL-the top OL will not make it to 10.  The value at 10 is Edge-the top Edge will not make it to 2A.  The value at 2A is probably WR at that point.  
• The AVT Grab the Player I Like Strategy-grab the player at the highest value position that would help the Jets the most, even if not top rated.   The pick at 4 would be Edge, even if Jermaine Johnson.  The pick at 10 would be the best WR fit.  The pick at 2A the is probably BPA.

If I am JD I am going with Plan B, but that is now how scouts are trained.  

JD changed his draft strategy from year one to year two, and year two was the more successful. What your describing is what he did last year and this is what I’m hoping for and expecting (at this time). Another OL would be a glut at the position and a waste. You don’t draft a guard at #4, even if you hope he becomes a tackle at some point. Scout the Edges aggressively, and take the best one on the board. At #10, do the same thing at WR. He needs impact players at those picks, grabbing one on each side of the ball would be ideal. 

[Alka]

8 hours ago, Warfish said:

In discussing WR quite a bit of late, specifically the Berrios issue, it's pretty clear......our WR room sucks today.  Davis (meh) and Moore (mostly hope).

Mims, bust.  Cole, gone.  Crowder, likely gone.  Berrios, maybe gone too.  The rest on our roster, unworthy of discussion.

We have a rookie, who had a piss poor year, in Wilson, and we're looking today at having very little to help him at the skill positions.

We're not signing one of the elite WR's, for many reasons stated elsewhere, but be assured, we are not signing Adams or Robinson or those kind of guys.  

So......how do we do the most we can to support Wilson, the KEY to this franchises immediate future?

I would offer up that drafting WR at BOTH #4 and #10 might be one way to really kick this Offense, and Wilson, into gear.

Ignoring trade downs (just for now), we could likely get the top 2 rated WR's in this draft class, and (I'd hope) cement WR as a strength for years to come.

Lets consider, and for giggles say we draft Garrett Wilson (an amazing route runner comps. to DC's McLaurin) and Drake London (a big, powerful WR, the best contested ball/possession guy in this class).

That would give us Davis/Moore/Wilson/London as our 4 WR set.  There is no universe wher ethat group should be a weakness, or that Wilson should not be 100% supported at WR with that group.

Yes, this would come at a cost, no edge at #4.  We'd have to go edge (perhaps) at the top of the 2nd, and maybe TE with the other 2nd.  D would suffer, and maybe have to be filled in via cheaper FA's.

Is there any argument that this is the way to go for this franchise, to take a huge step towards making the Jets (and Wilson) an Offensive team with real skill players around Wilson?

Thoughts.

There is no way the Jets draft a wide receiver with pick #4 in the draft.  Let me be clear:  The Jets will not way, 100% not draft a wide receiver with the 4th pick. 

Did I mention that the Jets will no way draft a wide receiver with pick #4?

Absolutely not.  No way. No how.  No chance. Give it up.  Not happening.  

Thank you.  If you have any other questions, I will be happy to help.

[JetBlue]

7 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

4 and 10 may be out of the box (although I would be better than fine with it), if we can move out of 4 to mid teens and grab 2 WRs I think it would be a home run.

It's an offensive league and nothing is telling Zach we've got his back more than a combo of Wilson/London/Burks after taking Moore last year.  QBs make the weapons but he needs some talent to play with.  

And extra pick or 2, there are EDGE rushers in RD 2, TEs in Round 2 and 3, Olineman in Rounds 2-3-4--all depends on what we do in FA--S, CB, LB?

Can't say how excited I would be to grab 2 WRs in Round 1.  A statement play and a show of support and going all in on Wilson.

You don't think Drafting an Evan Neal or one of the other top OL is a show of support?  Did you watch Zach last season?  He spent the better part of it running for his life.  One receiver at 10 or even trade down a few spots and take one.   We need to make sure Wilson has that wall to play behind as well as give him and the team, the threat of a running game.   It seems folks forget that the top teams every year also have excellent running attacks.   If we were to get a Neal and Garrett Wilson for instance, or trade down and take a Drake London or Burks.   Get the stud TE in rounds 2 or 3.  In fact if I was going to double dip at an offensive position it would be at TE.  McBride in the second and Ruckert/ Ferguson/ Kolar in the third or fourth.    Get Zach another Running back in the 3rd-5th rounds.  Now we do those things and we are REALLY showing Zach support that he can build upon.  

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well they should be signing a FA and also drafting a pair of TEs.

Plus in truth they should be signing a veteran WR. If they really want to help Wilson asap the answer isn't to rely upon a rookie from a class of WRs that isn't the strongest up top as it is. I'm sure there'll be some who pan out but (unlike 2021) it'd take some hindsight to see which were the best of this class. 

Also as much as I'm in favor of a WR at 10 (or a tad lower if they trade down), I equally don't want them to be painted into a corner at any pick, and heading into the draft with Moore + Davis + Mims is a recipe for just that. 

I agree with all of this. My ideal offseason would adding a veteran WR and TE so they have some flexibility going into the draft and Zach isnt relying on rookies at those positions, but I'd also like them to draft both at some point as well but honestly, I'd prioritize TE more in the draft but that's because I dont think it's a deep position this year whereas, I like some of the mid round prospects at WR.

 

[JetBlue]

3 hours ago, GreenFish said:

I get Chase and Pitts. Those guys are blue chip prospects.

But why are some of y’all putting Smith and Waddle in a class above Wilson, London, Burks and Williams? 

Not to mention Olave and Metchie. 

[JustInFudge]

21 minutes ago, Aussie Jet said:

Double dipping at the same position in the first round creates cap problems down the track. The Jets have a decent amount of cap space now, but if the rebuild pays off and the Jets start winning games in the next 2-3 years, the cap squeeze will start to bite. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with Douglas tying up a fair chunk of cap space in two first round picks spent on the same position.

I'm of the opinion that if Douglas can't engineer a trade down from #4 that returns the value he wants, then it will likely be spent on a lineman (either offensive or defensive, depending on who is available on the board at the time), and #10 could either be spent on a wide receiver or a defensive back, again depending on who is available at that pick.

I doubt the Jets will sign Robinson, because at this stage of his career, I think he's looking for a team with a good QB. But I could see the Jets signing another free agent wide receiver and structuring the contract to give the Jets some flexibility after the first couple of years of the contract.

Not sure if anyone else brought it up but great call on the contract situation if you do hit on both, you'd also have Moore to think about around that time as well.

The easy solve at WR is Mims getting his head out of his ass and live up to his potential, but I agree, I do see them signing a veteran and I'd like them to resign Berrios but it's a wonky offseason for FA WR's, who is worth it?  Would the Jets spend what it takes for Adams or Robinson?  Would they come here?  Doubt it on both fronts but then all the other dudes have injury histories and I hate signing FA's with injury histories.  Godwin and Galup are currently recovering from surgery.  Williams, Smith-Shuster, Chark, Fuller are all often injured.  Do you bring back Cole on the cheap?   Or that type of a signing?  Otherwise, there is always the option to trade a pick for a proven vet if there is such a suitor and player worth it.