Could Drafting WR at BOTH #4 and #10 be Justified?

[JetBlue]

52 minutes ago, Warfish said:

All I hear when I read posts like this is "Denzel Mims is really a 1st Round Talent".

Forgive me, but with all the Mims and Hill's in our past, it's just hard to see it otherwise.....

You're probably right.  

I'll be honest, 99 time out of 100 I am a "MUST DRAFT OLINE" kinda guy.

I don't think our O-line is the problem, I think Wilson holding the ball too long and not knowing what to do with it was the problem.

We can't have 5x 1st rounders on our O-line, it's unsustainable.  We already have two.  Using a third would be a hell of alot of investment, that still won;t pay off 

Mims was a considered first round talent.  And it wasn't just by me.  At the same time you are willing to draft 2 WR in the first 10 picks in a draft that is not considered to be as good as the Draft Mims was in???    I'm all for taking one at 10 or even trading down but there is no receiver in this draft that is worth the 4th pick in my opinion.  If Evan Neal is sitting there, you draft him and worry about cap problems later.  We don't even know if Becton will be playing next year, and if so at what level. If Thibs falls, we POUNCE on him, period.

There are plenty of quality receivers that will be available later in this draft.  You can choose to believe that or not, that is up to you.  The bottom line is this more about JD's ability to draft that talent than anything else.   Either he can draft talent, or he can't.  No need to reach for a receiver at 4.   I am more interested in the TE position being properly addressed if I really want to help Zach.  

[Bronxville Jets Fan]

NO.  The league is filled with good WRs who were drafted in the second round and this year’s draft doesn’t have any WRs who are worthy of the fourth pick, possibly even the tenth pick.

[Peace Frog]

2 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Which is exactly what Moore is going to do this year.  

Yup. So get a big TE or WR as an outlet. 

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, JetBlue said:

You don't think Drafting an Evan Neal or one of the other top OL is a show of support?  Did you watch Zach last season?  He spent the better part of it running for his life.  One receiver at 10 or even trade down a few spots and take one.   We need to make sure Wilson has that wall to play behind as well as give him and the team, the threat of a running game.   It seems folks forget that the top teams every year also have excellent running attacks.   If we were to get a Neal and Garrett Wilson for instance, or trade down and take a Drake London or Burks.   Get the stud TE in rounds 2 or 3.  In fact if I was going to double dip at an offensive position it would be at TE.  McBride in the second and Ruckert/ Ferguson/ Kolar in the third or fourth.    Get Zach another Running back in the 3rd-5th rounds.  Now we do those things and we are REALLY showing Zach support that he can build upon.  

You have me confused with someone else. 

Whilst I would LOVE 1 or 2 WRS in Rd 1, if we took a Tackle or a Guard that would move to tackle in a year I would cream. 

I want weaponz.  I want an impregnable Oline. 

Either or. 

[JohnnyLV]

It is interesting to see people's perspectives in threads like these.

We definitely seem to have quite a few that view the game with a 80s era lens and want to spend most of the premium picks and FA $ on the defense year in and year out. 

Many still cling to the "value later" concept which is really really poor logic. The basic concept is that don't take the top of a strong class at a position because a good one is "available later" and predisposes that the likelihood of getting a good WR say later is good because there are a lot of 2nd, 3rd 4th, round WR that are good in the NFL. This is just a terrible way of looking at the situation. If we choose the best WR in the draft per our draft grade we have a very good chance of that person being at least decent. But later picks are complete crapshoots and have much much lower chances of being successful. The value argument sort of just lumps all the later round picks together and says out of that group the best WR might emerge or some of those WRs will be very good. But you do not have the aggregate you have a single pick, so in reality you are NOT getting more value you are selecting a different player as well as greatly decreasing the odds that the WR is actually good. That strategy does not work consistently. 

You should take the highest rated player in your tier of players that fits a need. We did that last year in the draft,

Many want to sign all of the name FAs. Even with all our cap we could only sign a couple and the success rate on high value FAs is super small. It can work- see the Rams Super team- but 9 times out of ten it will fail spectacularly. 

Many here also overvalue EDGE insanely. It is an important position if you can get an elite one, but it is insanely difficult to hit on one of these guys unless you rated like a Bosa, or Young or Clowney and even then you may not get a dominant player.

 

 

[More Cowbell]

3 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

I should have used the work "underachieved" with regard to Mixon.  Mixon was a first round talent who only went in the 2nd round because of a domestic violence allegation. He has had the Cincinnati backfield all to himself (his only competition was Gio Bernard and Samaje Perine).  He should be a bell cow back, dominating carries, yards, TDs, and receptions.  Instead he averaged 800 yards rushing, 6 TDs, 4 YPC, and 30 receptions in his first 4 seasons (this was his 5th season).  If you think those numbers are top flight numbers for a top RB, you are easy to please and there are 15 + RBs a season that produce at that level or better every season.  That is disappointing production from a back drafted to dominate a backfield.  

As for Davis, he basically doubled MVS' production as the #2 option on a running team with an inferior QB.  If MVS could not produce the past 2-3 seasons on a passing team with a top 3 QB and no competition for targets other than Adams, he's not going to do much more ever.  He was handed the #2 role in GB over and over and was outplayed by Lazard.  Instead, MVS caught 25-30 passes a season as an occasional home run threat.  That's what he is and all he is. Davis will be a 60+ catch guy for the next 5 years.  I'll take the 60 catches for 900 yards and 5 TDs over 25 catches for 400 yards and 3 TDs any day.   

I just can't.  You obviously need a serious intervention by someone who actually watches the games.

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, JetBlue said:

Jerome Ford should be the guy.  He would create a true Thunder and Lightning back field with Michael Carter.  

 

 

I need @Paradis to weigh in here. Some were hot on him, Para not so much. Not sure if he’s changed his mind. 

I want Cook. If he can be 80% of his brother I’m in. 

[Paradis]

no offense to the OP, but this is the terrible -- almost entirely b/c there's no WR worth taking in top 10 per say, let alone at #4 and #10... that's cromag material right there. Ignore talent and draft perceived positional need

[Paradis]

4 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

I need @Paradis to weigh in here. Some were hot on him, Para not so much. Not sure if he’s changed his mind. 

I want Cook. If he can be 80% of his brother I’m in. 

Ford smells bust. Put him right next to Jemar Jefferson... he creates nothing that isn't already blocked for him. 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

I maintain my belief that there is no "Veteran WR" that WE can realistically acquire who will be worth the price in terms of production.

The elites aren't coming here.  The second and third tiers will want far more money that they're worth in production.

And JD and Saleh have pounded the concept that they're "doing it right" in the "kind of rebuild Jets Fans have never seen before", which means the Draft almost exclusively for long term team building IMO.  

I also think the meme that WR's can't contribute early on is also outdated.  They do, quite often enough, these days.

Even for our own moribund franchise, Elijah Moore was an immediate impact player as a 2nd rounder, despite poor QB play.  Only his fragility limited his impact, not his ability.

I do agree, we don't want to be "stuck" come draft day, but I'm less concerned with that than you are.   

I think you’re overestimating how many already-elite teams feel they need to fork over upwards of $20MM (let alone several million more than that in Adams, allegedly) for a FA WR and have the space to do it, while underestimating just how many UFA WRs are due to become available.

In the interest of time, to see who’d be targeting a WR this offseason, I’m just grabbing from this article (I’m not a big pff devotee, but admit they’re better thought out than espn & many others). They list Atlanta, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Green Bay, Indy, Jacksonville, KC, Bolts, Miami, NE, NO, Jets, and Tampa. Here’s the latest cap space figures. Use column 2, though I don’t think that includes rookie pools yet since those aren’t official until after the SB (but also doesn’t include future cuts).

Rule out most of those teams losing high priced WRs with the rationale that otherwise they’d have just kept their own; and those too cap-strapped this season with or without doing that; or those already too invested in the WR/TE positions. That removes GB, KC, NO, TB, Atlanta, and NE from the $16-20MM+ WR shoppers. Then we may as well note which destinations are no more attractive than the Jets, which includes Detroit, Jacksonville, and maybe Chicago.

So who’s left?

1. Indy (ok; have the space, a big-armed veteran QB, and should be active after getting bounced by Jacksonville, and will surely be seeking an upgrade from Zach Pascal & get younger than TY Hilton. LT Fisher tackle & a guard are also yet-unsigned FAs; I don’t think they can afford Adams but another FA WR should go here.)
2. Miami (ok; nice weather and no state income tax. And tons of cap space. And a new coaching staff. And a young QB.)
3. Chargers (I kept them in the running only because they have cap space, but they conspicuously haven’t extended Mike Williams, so either it’s him or - more likely - they don’t think they need to mega-spend on another WR after already spending big on K.Allen. Also CA is proposing an 18% state income tax rate above $2.5MM and I wonder how that’ll affect some FA decisions).
4. Cleveland (the prior recent uptick in play regressed, and don’t think OBJ’s complaints - and game film his dad posted - didn’t resonate with any other WRs and agents who saw his career quickly revived away from Mayfield, who’s due for a big extension himself unless they’re moving on from him)
5. Chicago (didn’t ante up to lock in Robinson; is it him or them?). Oh, and they suck, too. They need like 4 OLmen - including 2 tackles - like we did two offseasons ago so they’re going to spend some $ there next month, and with $42MM tied up in their two edge rushers, while they could backload new deals they don’t have that much space.

So it’s not as insurmountable a task as you think, considering the number of starters due to hit FA in a month: Adams, Godwin, Mike Williams, Allen Robinson, OBJ, Fuller, Kirk, Gallup, or a couple teams will bet on bouncebacks from DJ Chark or JJSS.

Plus other teams - better teams - may think they just need a next-tier guy or a past-his-prime placeholder to then head into the draft, forgoing one of those $$$$ starters for one of: Crowder, Hilton, Valdez-Scantling, AJ Green, Sammy Watkins, Cedrick Wilson, and oh yeah — Berrios.

The point? Even if a few re-sign extensions last minute before FA starts, there are plenty to go around. There’s no reason for the Jets to head into the draft with just Moore & Davis. Therefore no rationalization (aside from the <1% chance of Douglas doing it) for drafting 2 WRs at #4 and #10.

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

First of all, no offense to the OP, but this is the dumbest idea I can think of -- but almost entirely b/c there's no WR worth taking in top 10 per say, let alone at #4 and #10... that's cromag material right there. Ignore talent and draft perceived positional need

Ooooh. Ouch. You understand the OP is slightly Cro Mag. 

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Ford is a total bust. Put him right next to Jemar Jefferson... he creates nothing that isn't already blocked for him. 

Well. There is that. 

[doitny]

4 hours ago, JetBlue said:

 If Evan Neal is sitting there, you draft him and worry about cap problems later.  We don't even know if Becton will be playing next year, and if so at what level.   

no you cant worry about it later. 

the top OL is Trent Williams who makes 23 mil a year last year. Brandon Smith (Indy) is 10th at 17.5 mil

im guessing were drafting Neal at 4 cause he is some unbelievable talent and should be top 10 in the league. so figure his salary in 4 years in between 23-17 mil. lets split it and say 20 mil.

im guessing we think AVT will be that good too. thats another 20 mil. thats 40 mil between 2 OL spots. 

and unless you want scrubs like Feeney who made 3 mil playing the other 3 spots your looking at 8-10 mil for each.

thats 70 mil between 5 starters. thats insane. JD isnt keeping 2 guys that make so much money. then why draft a guy in the 1st place just to be a 4 year rental as high as 4 OA

 

[Paradis]

45 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Ooooh. Ouch. You understand the OP is slightly Cro Mag. 

Me and warfish have had our share of disagreements, but I’m not calling him dumb or a Cromag. Just the idea of spending two top 10 picks on WRs in a year with no blue chips WRs. At this point I don’t think any WRs going in the top 10.  

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

5 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I just can't.  You obviously need a serious intervention by someone who actually watches the games.

You think Joe Mixon is Walter Payton and MVS is not only better than Davis, but is a #1 WR in hiding and you criticize me for not watching games? Mixon is a good but not great back and MVS is a good depth add for some team if he leaves GB.  I think YOU need to subscribe to Sunday Ticket and the NFL All-22 and learn the league.  Do you watch any games besides the Jets and prime time games?????????

[adb280z]

9 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

He is the second option  in GB and is a legit deep threat. Once again you have no idea what you are talking about like when you said Mixon has been a disappointment  until this season. Davis can't  hold Scantling's jock. 

MVS is nothing special.  He'd have broken out by now if he was.  He's had 4 full years to do it.

[JetBlue]

4 hours ago, doitny said:

no you cant worry about it later. 

the top OL is Trent Williams who makes 23 mil a year last year. Brandon Smith (Indy) is 10th at 17.5 mil

im guessing were drafting Neal at 4 cause he is some unbelievable talent and should be top 10 in the league. so figure his salary in 4 years in between 23-17 mil. lets split it and say 20 mil.

im guessing we think AVT will be that good too. thats another 20 mil. thats 40 mil between 2 OL spots. 

and unless you want scrubs like Feeney who made 3 mil playing the other 3 spots your looking at 8-10 mil for each.

thats 70 mil between 5 starters. thats insane. JD isnt keeping 2 guys that make so much money. then why draft a guy in the 1st place just to be a 4 year rental as high as 4 OA

 

So if Neal is there do you really think JD is going to pass on him?  

[Dunnie]

no you cant worry about it later. 
the top OL is Trent Williams who makes 23 mil a year last year. Brandon Smith (Indy) is 10th at 17.5 mil
im guessing were drafting Neal at 4 cause he is some unbelievable talent and should be top 10 in the league. so figure his salary in 4 years in between 23-17 mil. lets split it and say 20 mil.
im guessing we think AVT will be that good too. thats another 20 mil. thats 40 mil between 2 OL spots. 
and unless you want scrubs like Feeney who made 3 mil playing the other 3 spots your looking at 8-10 mil for each.
thats 70 mil between 5 starters. thats insane. JD isnt keeping 2 guys that make so much money. then why draft a guy in the 1st place just to be a 4 year rental as high as 4 OA
 

Because those OL that cost so much are sought after and are easily tradeable if you want to unload them for cap reasons.

[Hael]

Normally with 2 picks in the top 10, and the Jets desperately needing playmakers and already having a cheap young roster, I would spend them on big time surefire difference makers.  The Chase Youngs, Patrick Petersons and Jamare Chases of the world.

This draft unfortunately is not that draft.  The top 10 isnt really the top 10.  Its more like the top 30, where the number 1 guy isnt really enormously different than the 30th.  The only real sure fire thing  is Linderbaugh and hes at a non premium position and our current center is average by league standards (so its not a huge need)

The right play is to trade down and get as many picks in the top 30 as possible.  You could then potentially hit on edge, interior OL, WR and safety as well as having a few extra shots in the following year.

[rangerous]

15 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

With Kupp it’s more about his route running and his quick moves to leave defenders in the dust. Saw a clip of some of his moves where he’s just breaking ankles and creating 7 yards of separation all by himself. Incredible. 

Yep.  Lots of supposedly slow receivers are like that.  Kind of odd he’s that quick considering he’s 6-5.  Moore seems to be that kind of guy too although he also has the speed.

[LIJetsFan]

By Mike Rosenstein | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

Here’s what ESPN predicted in its latest first-round mock.

Jets

The Jets have a pair of first-round picks in 2022: their own, plus one from the Seattle Seahawks as part of the Jamal Adams trade.

4. Ikem Ekwonu, OT, NC State

Ekwonu is a physical tone-setter who could play either guard or tackle.

10. (via SEA) Garrett Wilson, WR, Ohio State

At 6-foot and 188 pounds, Wilson has strong hands and unique body control and could give the team a go-to target who pairs well with Elijah Moore and Corey Davis.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

22 hours ago, Warfish said:

In discussing WR quite a bit of late, specifically the Berrios issue, it's pretty clear......our WR room sucks today.  Davis (meh) and Moore (mostly hope).

Mims, bust.  Cole, gone.  Crowder, likely gone.  Berrios, maybe gone too.  The rest on our roster, unworthy of discussion.

We have a rookie, who had a piss poor year, in Wilson, and we're looking today at having very little to help him at the skill positions.

We're not signing one of the elite WR's, for many reasons stated elsewhere, but be assured, we are not signing Adams or Robinson or those kind of guys.  

So......how do we do the most we can to support Wilson, the KEY to this franchises immediate future?

I would offer up that drafting WR at BOTH #4 and #10 might be one way to really kick this Offense, and Wilson, into gear.

Ignoring trade downs (just for now), we could likely get the top 2 rated WR's in this draft class, and (I'd hope) cement WR as a strength for years to come.

Lets consider, and for giggles say we draft Garrett Wilson (an amazing route runner comps. to DC's McLaurin) and Drake London (a big, powerful WR, the best contested ball/possession guy in this class).

That would give us Davis/Moore/Wilson/London as our 4 WR set.  There is no universe wher ethat group should be a weakness, or that Wilson should not be 100% supported at WR with that group.

Yes, this would come at a cost, no edge at #4.  We'd have to go edge (perhaps) at the top of the 2nd, and maybe TE with the other 2nd.  D would suffer, and maybe have to be filled in via cheaper FA's.

Is there any argument that this is the way to go for this franchise, to take a huge step towards making the Jets (and Wilson) an Offensive team with real skill players around Wilson?

Thoughts.

If you want to contine to suck , sure .

[More Cowbell]

6 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

You think Joe Mixon is Walter Payton and MVS is not only better than Davis, but is a #1 WR in hiding and you criticize me for not watching games? Mixon is a good but not great back and MVS is a good depth add for some team if he leaves GB.  I think YOU need to subscribe to Sunday Ticket and the NFL All-22 and learn the league.  Do you watch any games besides the Jets and prime time games?????????

I'm not arguing this. Talking to you is like talking to a really stupid wall. 

[More Cowbell]

6 hours ago, adb280z said:

MVS is nothing special.  He'd have broken out by now if he was.  He's had 4 full years to do it.

He is on a team that focuses on one WR which is Adams. Most of the passes to WR go to him. After that, Rogers spreads the ball around to everyone pretty equally but MVS makes big plays when his number is called. Rogers even said after one game GB lost that he felt somewhat responsible for not getting the ball to MVS. I have not seen MVS make the number of drops I saw from Davis last season. MVS would be an upgrade. 

 

[Claymation]

16 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Disclaimer: I've never watched him play. Not even youtube clips (since those are going to be so cherry-picked anyway; go find some of our recent bust QBs and careful editing could make them all look like can't miss prospects).

The bolded parts would all concern me, whether he runs a 4.48 or not. I don't love body-catching as a comfort-zone habit because it leads to leaving their feet to catch it in their breadbox without need, instead of running straight through without breaking stride, but when open there are plenty of top WRs who do that, too. 

The biggest problem with Wilson is he holds the ball too long. If it takes his shiny new WR 3-4 seconds to get open, because he's slow off the line and on top of that is not super quick in & out of his breaks, then he's not open unless single-covered by a shrimp (or the DB slipped early). Even if they're "sharp cuts," (listed among his positives) how quickly does he get out of them to create that sudden separation? He'd get some brownie points in separation because he's just so tall -- he's arguably still open if someone's breathing down his neck, provided the throw hits him perfectly in stride and is also high enough that it's his ball or it's nobody's (or it belongs to the high safety if the pass is a hair too high lol). But compared to quicker receivers, regardless of size, he won't get as many yac on those quick digs/slants (meaning fewer big plays unless he's gotten open on a deeper route against CBs that are faster and have a 5-yard head start on him). 

It's great that he was productive in college, but that's also the story of hundreds of NFL flops, and is why they have the combine & pro days for exact-measurement apples to apples comparisons.

This one may yet end up as a superstar WR at the next level, but those are some pretty big red flags for a top 10 pick. 

He's not a body a catcher, he high points the ball and has incredible wing span. He is actually quite agile for a big man. His yard after catch was surprising for his size. USC offense flowed through London, received double teams and he still came down with the ball. He is a Vincent Jackson or a faster Plaxico. London can catch a ball with a CB draped on his back because of his size, hands and wingspan. 

Also, Zach's biggest issue last year was him adjusting to the league (speed, coverages and pressure). With proper coaching that shouldn't be an issue next year. But that would require proper coaching.

[GKnight83]

I can support the OPs position if the Jets sign at least one OL starter and a TE.

[slats]

4 hours ago, JetBlue said:

So if Neal is there do you really think JD is going to pass on him?  

 

1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

By Mike Rosenstein | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

Here’s what ESPN predicted in its latest first-round mock.

Jets

The Jets have a pair of first-round picks in 2022: their own, plus one from the Seattle Seahawks as part of the Jamal Adams trade.

4. Ikem Ekwonu, OT, NC State

Ekwonu is a physical tone-setter who could play either guard or tackle.

10. (via SEA) Garrett Wilson, WR, Ohio State

At 6-foot and 188 pounds, Wilson has strong hands and unique body control and could give the team a go-to target who pairs well with Elijah Moore and Corey Davis.

The media will continue to mock OL to the Jets because it’s easy to do based on their remarks and JD’s first two drafts, but it’s not the smart move for the Jets. The best move would probably be to trade down in a draft like this, but I don’t think there will be a ton of opportunities. Definitely hoping one of the QBs starts rising to the top, and that at least one team ahead of them takes an OL. The unit should be off the Jets board in the first round, especially if they’re projecting the player to play guard. 
 
Resign or upgrade LTD, resign Moses or sign a reasonable swing/right tackle in free agency, and your starting OL is not only set but really pretty good. It sucked early in the year because it takes time to learn this zone blocking scheme, and to learn to do it as a unit. Once they did that and replaced GVR, they were good. 
 
The pass rush was terrible. These guys are married to their scheme (they will never be blitz happy), and need to be able to rush the passer with their front four consistently. If no trade down is available, taking the best Edge on their board is the move at #4. Then at #10, the top WR on their board will be more than welcome. 

[Warfish]

10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The point? Even if a few re-sign extensions last minute before FA starts, there are plenty to go around. There’s no reason for the Jets to head into the draft with just Moore & Davis. Therefore no rationalization (aside from the <1% chance of Douglas doing it) for drafting 2 WRs at #4 and #10.

Good well thought out post, as usual Sperm.

We'll see what happens.  I'd almost be willing to bet money we do not sign any of the top FA's, but I would also qualify the "top FA's differently than your post, for example, OBJ is not a top FA, he's a headcase and locker room cancer (on a team like ours).

Be that as it may, I 100% agree, we cannot go into the draft with "only" Moore and David.  And we won't, I'm confident of that.

But I'm also confident we won't be going into the draft with Adams, Robinson or any other top-level WR on our roster either.

And ultimately, while I asked the question (and it's ben a fun thread), I too do not believe JD would draft WR at both #4 and #10, nor do I think he would draft WR with a #1 AND a #2 this draft.  But for reasons already well trod, I think it's a good question to ask and ponder the ramifications of.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, SAM SAM HE&#x27;S OUR MAN said:

If you want to contine to suck , sure .

I'd say the way to suck is to waste picks trying to be the 1985 Bears in a league utterly and completely dominated by Offense.  I'll repeat that we have alot of folks who still think it's the 1970's and 1980's.

Happily, my opinion also aligns with my preferences as to what I want to see as an entertainment product, Offense.  As purely a viewer of entertainment, I could care less if we field an improved D next year.  But I DO care if we can put up 28-32 points a game next year and win some games by outscoring our opponents.

 

[doitny]

6 hours ago, JetBlue said:

So if Neal is there do you really think JD is going to pass on him?  

yes. 

cant keep picking OL every year in rd 1. 

the SB has just on one guy between both teams making only 10 mil.

[doitny]

6 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Because those OL that cost so much are sought after and are easily tradeable if you want to unload them for cap reasons.

that rarely happens to depend on that as a strategy. 

i know your thinking Orlando Brown but KC was trying to win a SB. usually teams wait the year for him to become a FA.

it will be interesting now that he will be a FA if they sign him to a 20 mil a year contract. there already paying Thunney around 17 mil. 

with Mahomes making 50 mil it will be a tough call.

[xJayce]

On 2/8/2022 at 9:51 AM, Warfish said:

In discussing WR quite a bit of late, specifically the Berrios issue, it's pretty clear......our WR room sucks today.  Davis (meh) and Moore (mostly hope).

Mims, bust.  Cole, gone.  Crowder, likely gone.  Berrios, maybe gone too.  The rest on our roster, unworthy of discussion.

We have a rookie, who had a piss poor year, in Wilson, and we're looking today at having very little to help him at the skill positions.

We're not signing one of the elite WR's, for many reasons stated elsewhere, but be assured, we are not signing Adams or Robinson or those kind of guys.  

So......how do we do the most we can to support Wilson, the KEY to this franchises immediate future?

I would offer up that drafting WR at BOTH #4 and #10 might be one way to really kick this Offense, and Wilson, into gear.

Ignoring trade downs (just for now), we could likely get the top 2 rated WR's in this draft class, and (I'd hope) cement WR as a strength for years to come.

Lets consider, and for giggles say we draft Garrett Wilson (an amazing route runner comps. to DC's McLaurin) and Drake London (a big, powerful WR, the best contested ball/possession guy in this class).

That would give us Davis/Moore/Wilson/London as our 4 WR set.  There is no universe wher ethat group should be a weakness, or that Wilson should not be 100% supported at WR with that group.

Yes, this would come at a cost, no edge at #4.  We'd have to go edge (perhaps) at the top of the 2nd, and maybe TE with the other 2nd.  D would suffer, and maybe have to be filled in via cheaper FA's.

Is there any argument that this is the way to go for this franchise, to take a huge step towards making the Jets (and Wilson) an Offensive team with real skill players around Wilson?

Thoughts.

Just some random thoughts:

• We'll have to see how things line up in FA. I don't believe the Jets are a destination for WRs at this point (ie - who really wants to catch anything thrown from a 2nd year QB that struggled in their 1st season?), but you never know, maybe CJ Mosely is out recruiting potential FAs as we speak! And by then, the Berrios question should be solved (ie - if he signs, then really, maybe we're really looking at only needing 1 WR, and Berrios, Moore, Davis and Rookie WR make a nice top 4).
• Listening to a lot of podcasts, it doesn't seem like there is a lot of separation between the top 6-8 receivers in this draft class. I think there's a top 3 which is attracting attention, but I've heard that the drop off from 3 to 4 isn't that steep. I'm not an expert, I don't know enough about the WR class, but if that's the case, we may not even draft a single receiver in the first round (ie - using the dreaded 2nd round pick on a receiver, possibly even a third).
• I think drafting / signing a receiving TE helps at least as much as drafting a receiver, and covers a bigger need, and from what I've been listening too, there are 3-4 very good TE prospects coming in (McBride, Ruckert, Wydermyer, Likely) that can be had in rounds 2-3.
• I get the feeling that CB may come before WR (I'm not a huge fan of that).

[Augustiniak]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'd say the way to suck is to waste picks trying to be the 1985 Bears in a league utterly and completely dominated by Offense.  I'll repeat that we have alot of folks who still think it's the 1970's and 1980's.

Happily, my opinion also aligns with my preferences as to what I want to see as an entertainment product, Offense.  As purely a viewer of entertainment, I could care less if we field an improved D next year.  But I DO care if we can put up 28-32 points a game next year and win some games by outscoring our opponents.

 

Also you have to factor in two other things:  1) at #4, if douglas can’t trade out, he may ultimately pull a mccagnan and take BAP if the guy on their board is rated significantly higher than others.  If that guy is okongwu, they may just take him and fortify a line that clearly can’t rely on Becton.  2) douglas’ tenure here is obviously tied to how wilson develops, and taking guys like Hamilton with the 4th pick really does not help douglas develop wilson.  Losing 34-30 next year is way better for douglas’ job security than losing 17-13.  

I’m guessing that they do go OL at 4, guessing the edge guys won’t be worthy of that slot, and then at 10 douglas will look to trade back and then they’ll take a pass rusher.  Day 2 will be for wr/te/secondary.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

7 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I'm not arguing this. Talking to you is like talking to a really stupid wall. 

There was no need, in the middle of a discussion about the relative merits of MVS and Davis, to resort to personal attacks.  If you want to argue with me over whether MVS or Davis is the better receiver, fine. I presented facts and opinion on the players and you, well - you can see your analysis above.  And I'm not thin skinned. But your comments were over the top and  unnecessary.  I'm not going to hijack a thread any more than this post and exchange personal attacks with you.   The back and forth already went too far and I wish I didn't take the bait.  But you have no idea how much football I watch so please, give it a rest next time.  You, me and the board will be better off for it if you stick to defending why you think MVS is the next Jerry Rice and Corey Davis is a Stephen Hill clone than to resort to personal attacks.  We can debate or agree to disagree on how good or mediocre MVS is, but if you don't want to go down that road, just ignore my posts or put me on ignore and spare the "you're stupid" posts.  Thanks.   

[Claymation]

4 hours ago, doitny said:

yes. 

cant keep picking OL every year in rd 1. 

the SB has just on one guy between both teams making only 10 mil.

You are right you shouldn't, but this isn't the year to start that, would you rather have Hamilton or Neal/Cross/Ikem? After listening to DJ's assessment on Thibs, I wouldn't want him at 10. I still want London at 10.