Jump to content

Jets hoping to re-sign Fatukasi & Berrios, per Cimini


mrcoops
 Share

Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, Warfish said:

On the worst Defense in franchise history, every position should be looked at for possible upgrade.  

I'm not resigning anyone if there may be a better option for better performance available in FA or the draft.

I think too many folks here like certain Defensive players who are pretty much JAG's by every definition, but slightly rose above the overall stench of our terrible defense.

Foley, JFM, even QW, perfect examples. 

I don't think you wait on guys for draft picks.  That pigeonholes you and you can get stuck.  If with #4. Say they are thinking they really want Hamilton at 4 (I know, I know a safety, but for argument's sake and he will be there), so they pass on FA S and let Maye and Joyner walk.  Then somebody really wants Pickett and offers a big haul for #4, you can't take it or you don't know what you will be trotting out there at S.   

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

What do people see in Fatukasi that I'm missing?

The run defense was terrible last season.  Teams were running at will for large portions of the season.  How is that possible if Fatukasi is such a run stuffing beast?

I thought Fatukasi played better prior to last season.  Perhaps he's not be a great fit in Saleh's scheme.

Sign him for depth/backup money?  I can support it.  Sign him to a significant contract?  Absolutely not.  He's a JAG.

He was near the top in run stops behind the line and led the NFL in some run stop rate stat that ESPN had/has.  I think people are misguided in thinking our run D sucked, so we should let him go.  Our run D sucked and he was good at stopping the run.  He may not be a great fit, but we need to skew a little more towards Fatukasi and away from the rest. 

I agree they shouldn't back up the truck for the guy (not sure we should have for JFM) but I certainly want him back.  The fact they have been in talks for "months" indicates they want him back but are not writing any blank checks. 

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

29th ranked defense vs the run, yay! lets give big dollars to the run stuffer!  The dline sucked this year and constantly let plays get to our weak linebackers.

Fatusaki could have been in for a MAJOR pay day this year but he was an underachiever like many others.  Is he worth resigning?  Yes he is but he is a disappointing player that i previously liked a lot.

Blaming all the problems of the run defense on Foley is exactly what you dont want our GM to do

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I think too many folks here like certain Defensive players who are pretty much JAG's by every definition, but slightly rose above the overall stench of our terrible defense.

Foley, JFM, even QW, perfect examples. 

Not one JAG in the group

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, ZachEY said:

I just went back and looked at QW's draft, and it led me down an awful rabbit hole.

Lets say Macc isn't content with his QB room of Josh McCown, Bryce Petty, and Christian Hackenberg.

He drafts Patrick Mahommes.

BUT BUT BUT MAHOMMES WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN GOOD HERE.

In 2018, we draft Quinton Nelson in the 1st, and maybe Courtland Sutton in round 2 as we need a WR.

In 2019, even if we still draft QW, our 2nd round pick was in position for Deebo Samuel or AJ Brown.

didn't anyone ever tell you to not look back?  it's best just to put a blanket over the jets years from 2011 to 2020.  it's like the team only got formed in 2021.

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Not one JAG in the group

If you say so.  I say results speak for themselves.

Dead last in the NFL in most Defense stats.

Worst Defense in Franchise history.

And it all starts up front, with that D-Line.

Couldn't stop the run.  Couldn't put any pressure on the pass.

I'll repeat, when you produce this poorly, every position should be looked at for possible upgrade. 

A historic level of sucking.  But sure, they're not JAG's, they Studs, right? :-k

 

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, David Harris said:

Berrios for $5.75 per.  Not a penny more IMO.

I know we're desperate for run stuffers but Foley really didn't seem to make any difference.  Back to drafting IDL.

Let’s round Berrios up to $6M, maybe $7 if the team is convinced he’s a starting slot.  Or at least add incentives to get him there.

Foley was a top 3-5 run stuffed the 2 previous years.  Do you think there is more to the run defense failing outside him or do you think he’s not a scheme fit?  He’s a tough one to figure out.
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

berrios was a nice story last year -he is all heart and a guy like that you like on your roster but he is worth no where near his silly demands and honestly they could probably find a better guy late in the draft at a much cheaper rate-he made 850 last year give him 3-4 million or send him on his way. He does not start on most teams in the NFL even as a 3

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Let’s round Berrios up to $6M, maybe $7 if the team is convinced he’s a starting slot.  Or at least add incentives to get him there.

Foley was a top 3-5 run stuffed the 2 previous years.  Do you think there is more to the run defense failing outside him or do you think he’s not a scheme fit?  He’s a tough one to figure out.
 

 

I guess  a big NT isn’t going to make many impact plays but I literally can’t remember a single play he made last year.  We got run all over. Perhaps that’d somehow be even worse if he leaves but for $8-9 mill to keep the status quo…doesn’t feel worth it. 
 

The whole DL was terrible against the run. Mosley had a difficult time because he never trusted the other LB to hit his gap in the run game so CJ hesitated more than usual.  So fixing the other LB spot(s) will help a lot.  I want Foley back but that price seems high.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Let’s round Berrios up to $6M, maybe $7 if the team is convinced he’s a starting slot.  Or at least add incentives to get him there.

Foley was a top 3-5 run stuffed the 2 previous years.  Do you think there is more to the run defense failing outside him or do you think he’s not a scheme fit?  He’s a tough one to figure out.
 

 

Berrios - Give him a contract that averages 7/yr for three years and call it a day.  Structure it so they can get out after the 2nd year.  That puts him right in line with Beasley who has literally been twice as productive in terms of catches and yards. So you overpay for his WR production in exchange for what he contributes to special teams and what it means to have continuity with Wilson.

If he wants more let him look elsewhere.  He's made 2.5 over the course of his entire career.  Giving him 7 per for the next three is like hitting the lotto for him.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, ZachEY said:

I just went back and looked at QW's draft, and it led me down an awful rabbit hole.

Lets say Macc isn't content with his QB room of Josh McCown, Bryce Petty, and Christian Hackenberg.

He drafts Patrick Mahommes.

BUT BUT BUT MAHOMMES WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN GOOD HERE.

In 2018, we draft Quinton Nelson in the 1st, and maybe Courtland Sutton in round 2 as we need a WR.

In 2019, even if we still draft QW, our 2nd round pick was in position for Deebo Samuel or AJ Brown.

Now I want to throw up...

Thanks MacMoron.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

Berrios - Give him a contract that averages 7/yr for three years and call it a day.  Structure it so they can get out after the 2nd year.  That puts him right in line with Beasley who has literally been twice as productive in terms of catches and yards. So you overpay for his WR production in exchange for what he contributes to special teams and what it means to have continuity with Wilson.

If he wants more let him look elsewhere.  He's made 2.5 over the course of his entire career.  Giving him 7 per for the next three is like hitting the lotto for him.

I think you’re in the right range.  I had him at around $6M but the Beasley comparison is a good one plus he’s a 3 in 1 starter with his return duties.  He hasn’t proven he’s a top tier slot across an entire year so you really need to extrapolate.  I’m betting he’ll be even better with better players around him and the guy is clutch, catches everything and is a fan favorite. Also has great chemistry with Wilson.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, David Harris said:

I guess  a big NT isn’t going to make many impact plays but I literally can’t remember a single play he made last year.  We got run all over. Perhaps that’d somehow be even worse if he leaves but for $8-9 mill to keep the status quo…doesn’t feel worth it. 
 

The whole DL was terrible against the run. Mosley had a difficult time because he never trusted the other LB to hit his gap in the run game so CJ hesitated more than usual.  So fixing the other LB spot(s) will help a lot.  I want Foley back but that price seems high.

I remember him stuffing several runs.  In fact, the only time I remember any success on short yardage he was making the play, but you're right, there weren't many!  I am kind of in the same boat.  I want him back, but don't know if he's just not a great fit or what.  If they let him walk they'd better have some other plan for stopping the run.  

PFF has him as the Jets highest rated FA.  They estimate him at 3/$25M with $15M guarantees.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

29th ranked defense vs the run, yay! lets give big dollars to the run stuffer!  The dline sucked this year and constantly let plays get to our weak linebackers.

Fatusaki could have been in for a MAJOR pay day this year but he was an underachiever like many others.  Is he worth resigning?  Yes he is but he is a disappointing player that i previously liked a lot.

Yeah this was the first thing I was thinking about when I saw this. He was a top run-stuffer a year earlier, so maybe he's not a scheme fit, but if these are the results matching him to whatever Ulbrich wants from him then why should the team pay so much to retain what may have been a poor fit?

I just wouldn't want to find out later that we really only went after a $12MM WR instead of a $20MM WR (or similar at other positions) because they extended FF at $8MM/yr (or a combined $20MM+ for FF + JFM). He's not going to start here, and we might have to outbid teams where he might start as a NT, just to have him on/off the field here when it's a running down.

The starting DL would (presumably) be a 1st round rookie and C.Lawson on the ends, and JFM and Quincy W inside. Fatukasi would be situational, and even without those ends - which meant JFM was an end himself - FF still was on for under half the D snaps. 

It's not to diminish the need for a real NT-type defender, nor suggest Fatukasi isn't talented, since he is. Just that this may not be a great fit (let alone a fit worth paying for at 10x the prior rate). 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Blaming all the problems of the run defense on Foley is exactly what you dont want our GM to do

He s a run stopper, they were 29th

oh wait lets blame quinnen and you will say it is not quinnens fault....oh wait lets blame jfm....oh wait not his fault.

Amazing how nothing is every anyones fault when your team is 29th ranked vs the run and near dead last in total defense stat.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I remember him stuffing several runs.  In fact, the only time I remember any success on short yardage he was making the play, but you're right, there weren't many!  I am kind of in the same boat.  I want him back, but don't know if he's just not a great fit or what.  If they let him walk they'd better have some other plan for stopping the run.  

PFF has him as the Jets highest rated FA.  They estimate him at 3/$25M with $15M guarantees.

That'd be too much for a role player on a DL with Lawson at $15MM, JFM at $12MM, QW at $10MM (and maybe extended for even more), plus maybe/probably burning the #4 overall pick for an end. 

For a dedicated role like that I'd far sooner re-sign 36 yr old McLendon instead & outbid others by an extra million to get him back, seeing how he only made $1.2MM last year. Also they'll trade down at least once to recoup another day 3 pick & should draft another keg-sized NT in rounds 5+.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

If you say so.  I say results speak for themselves.

Dead last in the NFL in most Defense stats.

Worst Defense in Franchise history.

And it all starts up front, with that D-Line.

Couldn't stop the run.  Couldn't put any pressure on the pass.

I'll repeat, when you produce this poorly, every position should be looked at for possible upgrade. 

A historic level of sucking.  But sure, they're not JAG's, they Studs, right? :-k

 

As always you have to look at the situation, not just the numbers.  You look at LB, who’s there?
A QW  would get signed in a nano second if you put him on the open market.  I don’t have to say right.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah this was the first thing I was thinking about when I saw this. He was a top run-stuffer a year earlier, so maybe he's not a scheme fit, but if these are the results matching him to whatever Ulbrich wants from him then why should the team pay so much to retain what may have been a poor fit?

I just wouldn't want to find out later that we really only went after a $12MM WR instead of a $20MM WR (or similar at other positions) because they extended FF at $8MM/yr (or a combined $20MM+ for FF + JFM). He's not going to start here, and we might have to outbid teams where he might start as a NT, just to have him on/off the field here when it's a running down.

The starting DL would (presumably) be a 1st round rookie and C.Lawson on the ends, and JFM and Quincy W inside. Fatukasi would be situational, and even without those ends - which meant JFM was an end himself - FF still was on for under half the D snaps. 

It's not to diminish the need for a real NT-type defender, nor suggest Fatukasi isn't talented, since he is. Just that this may not be a great fit (let alone a fit worth paying for at 10x the prior rate). 

*Quinnen, not Quincy.

Assume for a minute these guys are not idiots.  Fatukasi is a guy you want back, but not to pay a ton.  Similar with Berrios.  Maybe make teams think you will make a very solid offer will get them bigger contract offers which can help in the comp pick formula.  They still should be buyers, but if a few of these guys get real contracts and they pick up some cap casualties (say Amari Cooper) that don't factor they may finally get one.  Personally, I am rooting for Berrios to get $9m per,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

Berrios - Give him a contract that averages 7/yr for three years and call it a day.  Structure it so they can get out after the 2nd year.  That puts him right in line with Beasley who has literally been twice as productive in terms of catches and yards. So you overpay for his WR production in exchange for what he contributes to special teams and what it means to have continuity with Wilson.

If he wants more let him look elsewhere.  He's made 2.5 over the course of his entire career.  Giving him 7 per for the next three is like hitting the lotto for him.

What is the guaranteed $$$. I say 3 year 15M, 8 guaranteed.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I think Berrios is the priority.  Great returner that could be evolving into really good slot guy. And I know many here think that because Elijah Moore is short that he is therefore our default slot guy and we can't have both Berrios and Moore on the field at the same time. Simply not true. Moore is an emerging #1 WR who can play in the slot, but is also really good outside thanks to his speed/route running.

https://jetsxfactor.com/2021/11/23/elijah-moore-outside-wr-slot/

The Jets and their fans marveled at Moore’s brilliance in Week 11 as he caught eight passes for 141 yards and a touchdown against Miami’s expensive secondary. Take a look at the distribution of his production in that performance:

  • Slot: 9 routes run, 1 catch, 1 target, 5 yards, 0 first downs
  • Outside: 26 routes run, 7 catches, 10 targets, 136 yards, 1 touchdown, 4 first downs

Just about all of Moore’s damage was done from the outside. This continues the trend that had been developing over the first three games of Moore’s explosion.

Here is a look at the distribution of Moore’s production from Weeks 8-11:

  • Slot: 29 routes run, 7 targets, 6 catches, 39 yards, 1 touchdown, 1 first down
  • Outside: 86 routes run, 23 targets, 18 catches, 297 yards, 3 touchdowns, 10 first downs
  • And here is a comparison of Moore’s efficiency over that span:

    Slot (25.2% of routes): 5.6 yards per target, 1.34 yards per route run, TD/1stD on 28.6% of targets, TD/1stD on 6.9% of routes

    Outside (74.8% of routes): 12.9 yards per target, 3.45 yards per route run, TD/1stD on 56.5% of targets, TD/1stD on 15.1% of routes

Thanks for posting this - the whole "Moore is our starting slot WR" narrative in the Berrios thread reminded me of this exact article but I couldn't find it.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

PFF has him as the Jets highest rated FA.  They estimate him at 3/$25M with $15M guarantees.

Odd how more people seem to be high on resigning Foley than Berrios ... a guy who's a run stopper on the 29th D vs the run, vs a guy who is a top return man and a decent enough WR.

But, you know, DT >>> Weaponz. ;-)  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, ZachEY said:

I just went back and looked at QW's draft, and it led me down an awful rabbit hole.

Lets say Macc isn't content with his QB room of Josh McCown, Bryce Petty, and Christian Hackenberg.

He drafts Patrick Mahommes.

BUT BUT BUT MAHOMMES WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN GOOD HERE.

In 2018, we draft Quinton Nelson in the 1st, and maybe Courtland Sutton in round 2 as we need a WR.

In 2019, even if we still draft QW, our 2nd round pick was in position for Deebo Samuel or AJ Brown.

I played that game the other night, only I was born 10 years earlier to different parents and I wound up having sex with a 25 year old Scarlett Johannson and a 42 year old Selma Hayak in Hollywood.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

Odd how more people seem to be high on resigning Foley than Berrios ... a guy who's a run stopper on the 29th D vs the run, vs a guy who is a top return man and a decent enough WR.

But, you know, DT >>> Weaponz. ;-)  

I'd really like to keep both but that might be a longshot.

Foley is a great guy, home-grown player, and strong run stopper. Possibly not the best fit for the scheme, but the Jets still seem keen to keep him, which tells me they believe he's still a valuable piece.

Berrios can do more things, though, and is still getting better and adding more strings to his bow. Our OC and QB seem to value him very highly, he produces on STs and at WR, and his effort is always top-notch.

Hopefully, it works out and they both stay - but if we can only retain one, it should be Berrios.

 

Edited by mrcoops
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

I played that game the other night, only I was born 10 years earlier to different parents and I wound up having sex with a 25 year old Scarlett Johannson and a 42 year old Selma Hayak in Hollywood.   

Yeah - Your fantasy involves metaphysics or some sh*t, and mine requires a guy who's paid to evaluate NFL talent to conclude that Josh McCown, Bryce Petty, and Christian Hackenberg ain't it.  Which, much of Jet Nation Dot Com was able to do on their own, so...........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

*Quinnen, not Quincy.

Assume for a minute these guys are not idiots.  Fatukasi is a guy you want back, but not to pay a ton.  Similar with Berrios.  Maybe make teams think you will make a very solid offer will get them bigger contract offers which can help in the comp pick formula.  They still should be buyers, but if a few of these guys get real contracts and they pick up some cap casualties (say Amari Cooper) that don't factor they may finally get one.  Personally, I am rooting for Berrios to get $9m per,

lol not like me to make that name swap, but I'm half human so it happens to me, too, I guess.

I'd be fine with having them both back, but it depends on the cost. Not merely in dollars, but the indirect cost of those dollars, in that what bigger difference-makers (difference for the better, one would hope) will the team now shy away from because 10% of the salary cap is going to 3 part-time players in Berrios-Fatukasi-JFM that other teams not only do without, but do far better without. It's not to put causality on them; rather it's that the benefits of their individual and collective presence are unnecessary. 

Berrios's value is being vastly overblown because the team got roughly zero production out of Mims, a slow start and then an early exit from Moore, only half a season out of Davis, 11/17 of a season from Crowder, and a better firsthand look at how unimpressive Keelan Cole really is (for all the posters who'd declared Crowder unnecessary because of his signing). As pathetic as all that was, it's as unlikely to repeat as it is for the Jets to not add at least one more serious WR. No less than two, with one of them suited for the slot, if they don't re-sign Berrios. Not to mention they should go from zero receiving TEs to two, or so we hope.

Fatukasi is certainly a guy I'd like back, but unless Quinnen W misses even more 2022 games than 2021, I'd expect his snaps to drop even more next year with JFM probably moving inside. What's that worth to have him instead of another part-time, dedicated run stopper? Not nothing, but imo not as much as he's probably seeking. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...